2008.08.03 01:00 - Drop things in a different way

Moon was the guardian that night. 

Moon Fargis: hi bert :)
Bertrum Quan: Hi Moon
Bertrum Quan: How are your this evening/morning?
Moon Fargis: im fine thanks:) leading a pab meeting at the morning wakes up the mind :)
Bertrum Quan: Great. I'm tired this evening.
Moon Fargis: ow late iis it in your country?
Moon Fargis: rehi gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Bertrum Quan: Depends where.. but it's 1AM SLT
Bertrum Quan: Hi Gaya.
Bertrum Quan: I saw Gaya a bit earlier at Hikari.
Moon Fargis: yep :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'posting a log on wiki'
Moon Fargis: hi tahuti
Bertrum Quan: Hi Tahuti
Tahuti Thor: hello everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: tahuti: seem you logged of at pab and now on at pab :)
Tahuti Thor: :)
Tahuti Thor: what is pah?
Moon Fargis: oh
Moon Fargis: play as being
Tahuti Thor: o,yes
Moon Fargis: this is some new mindfullnes form of seeing things
Moon Fargis: some practise
Moon Fargis: in rl
Gaya Ethaniel: PaB - playasbeing
Gaya Ethaniel: You've been here before yes Tahuti?
Gaya Ethaniel met Tahuti yesterday at PaB
Tahuti Thor: yes
Moon Fargis: we do it every 15 minutes for 9 seconds. we blay as we would be enlighted, see things for this 9 seconds unattached by the mind
Moon Fargis: b=p
Gaya Ethaniel: Moon is explaining to you the basics of what we do here :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Moon what's b=p?
Moon Fargis: some grammar correction
Moon Fargis: or typo correction
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'blay = play'
Moon Fargis: :)
Moon Fargis: theres a homepage about PaB: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
Moon Fargis: and ofcourse a much extendent description: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/hin...ying-as-being/
Moon Fargis: we also log this cat for posting it aat a wiki...is it ok for you to include your name?
Gaya Ethaniel: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Gaya Ethaniel: your name and what you say here Tahuti, can we post online?
Gaya Ethaniel forgot to ask this question to Tahuti yesterday
Tahuti Thor: yes
Moon Fargis: so take your time to read throught the page if you wish
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you. Just posted what we discussed yesterday, you were there http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...%80%a6_and_PaB as an example
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: Was shame we couldn't talk more on it. Time flied yesterday
Tahuti Thor: oh ok i c
Moon Fargis: what did you taked about maybe we can continue today#
Moon Fargis: +l
Gaya Ethaniel: Moon, maybe have a quick scan from " I pluck up my courage and decide to raise a question regarding ‘tension’ within PaB and everyone is suddenly firing all cylinders to my surprise… our discussion centres around God, god, religion, belief and Being."
Moon Fargis: aha
Moon Fargis: intrestiong
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Moon Fargis: what do you think about it?
Tahuti Thor: only said that religion is a method or practice, etc. that connects an individual to (fill in blank) so he or she will feel together/whole/balanced
Tahuti Thor: the methods/practices are numerous and include meditation, prayer, chanting, ritual, etc.
Gaya Ethaniel: My feelings are still the same as before. I see 'God' as Being (as in PaB) and I value all major religions as I appreciate different perspectives. Same attitude goes for different opinions of people. However it seems to me that how one defines 'God' and their backgrounds affect how he/she practise 9 sec & PaB. Unless I know the person well, sometimes it's easy to get confused over 'words' and 'definitions'
Gaya Ethaniel: yes Tahuti
Moon Fargis: ahyes true, hmm i think PaB is more a reduction of yourself, where you drop all your attachments for a short time and see things without meanings
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: But not everyone seems to be able to 'drop'
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm absolutely fine whether one drops the attachments (ie religious/spiritual backgrounds) or not. It's just that it's not always clear who is dropping
Moon Fargis: hmm i think everyone drops something in a different way
Tahuti Thor: its like everyone craves for chocolate......and lets pretend we are all blind as to what chocolate looks like.......and so we have different concepts/descriptions of what chocolate (God) looks like
Tahuti Thor: fundamentally i ithink the feeling of what we get out of religion is the same
Gaya Ethaniel: perhaps Tahuti
Gaya Ethaniel: Because of the uncertainty how the person I'm talking to is practising, discussions can get caught up with definitions and other notions... am I making any sense?
Tahuti Thor: yes
Moon Fargis: well yes and ofcourse always depends on the religion and ow people interpret their words... the badest example would be the muslim religion where people interpret the words in a total wrong and absolut way
Gaya Ethaniel: phew... too many sentences from me! I'm going to keep quiet for a bit
Tahuti Thor: one religion hikes, another religion walks, still another religion swims
Tahuti Thor: one religion may be a bit more isolated
Tahuti Thor: another more social oriented
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Moon Fargis: ok but i still see pab as practise form wich is religionless and can be used independent of the religion
Moon Fargis: like buddhism mostly is
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Moon Fargis: i know alot of christians who are buddhists too
Gaya Ethaniel: oh tell me more Moon?
Moon Fargis: sure let me look up the english word for it one sec
Moon Fargis: you can mostly see this in the christ "Order of Saint Benedict" there you can find the most buddhists in it
Moon Fargis: they often do meditations and also pray to god
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes... I believe they have own meditation method. Do you think this leads them to find Buddhism useful?
Moon Fargis: its a intresting mixture
Gaya Ethaniel: we typed same thing here Moon :)
Moon Fargis: :) buddhism is godless thhats why it fits well in most other religions as practise form
Gaya Ethaniel: Well can't say that for esoteric Buddhism imo
Moon Fargis: ofcourse there are some countrys wo see buddha as god
Gaya Ethaniel: again same thing... sorry I shouldl be more patient waiting for you to type Moon
Moon Fargis: hehe
Moon Fargis: same wavelength :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: That's why I prefer to learn more from Theravada, Chan, Seon & Zen rather than Mahayana Buddhism. Though it's simply because I don't yet have the faith or haven't had patience/capacity to understand the elaborate rituals Mahayana practise
Moon Fargis: yes and we see this changes at pab too
Gaya Ethaniel: And I also feel close to Catholicism too somehow
Gaya Ethaniel: Changes - Mahayana to Theravada?
Moon Fargis: we justt started with a simple explaination how pab works and how to pracctise.. throught all the other practise people it developed on its own
Moon Fargis: now we got play as seeing and the play as enlightment being aso
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Moon Fargis: with different practise methods and ways of practise.. that happend to buddhism too and maybe also happens to all other religions
Tahuti Thor: i wish i could make it to california to practice the forest tradition :)
Gaya Ethaniel: But you said that no much has changed for you doing PaB Moon
Gaya Ethaniel: Tahuti - are you referring to the followers of Ajahn Chah?
Tahuti Thor: forest tradition = thai theravada
Tahuti Thor: yes
Moon Fargis: gaya: yes ive done such things mostly douring my zazen already before pab
Gaya Ethaniel: My teacher is also a follower of Ajahn Chah :)
Tahuti Thor: not sure there is forest tradition on east coast
Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.forestsangha.org/munindo4.htm
Gaya Ethaniel: He's in UK
Moon Fargis: for sure there are forrests atleast:)
Gaya Ethaniel: First time to meet someone interested in this particular sangha in SL
Tahuti Thor: even better is goin to thailand
Tahuti Thor: but i rather stay in the states :)
Gaya Ethaniel: So Moon what you meant was that you see such changes in others at PaB?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes there is one monastery as you said in California
Gaya Ethaniel: I believe it's http://www.abhayagiri.org/
Gaya Ethaniel: Don't know much about the place though...
Tahuti Thor: yes,that is it
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Moon Fargis: things are changing and evolving
Gaya Ethaniel: But it seems that you are not changing and evolving if I understood correctly Moon
Tahuti Thor: the one in thailand is the international monastery
Gaya Ethaniel: That's right Tahuti
Moon Fargis: gaya: no ythen you understood me wrong :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :( tell me
Moon Fargis: just wanted to say that this practise is pretty the same as the practise i did before but without calling it PaB. Maybe its something natural that people comes to this practise somehow on their own way but we never stop learning from it
Moon Fargis: everyone evolves in a different way
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... I get it now
Gaya Ethaniel: You're changing and evolving as you 'practise' but how you practise hasn't really changed as both what you did before and after PaB are similar...
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm surprised to hear that in fact... why would you say Zen is similar to PaB?
Moon Fargis: is cola similar to pepsi ?
Gaya Ethaniel: yes and no :)
Moon Fargis: see :)
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: I get it Moon
Gaya Ethaniel: If we hyperlink 'cola' and 'pepsi' do you think we will get some sort of sponsor money :P
Moon Fargis: no but maybe some lawers comes to us and forbit to say these words becasue we dont have the right to use them :)
Gaya Ethaniel: wise Moon
Moon Fargis: so bertrum.. is there something you want to say?
Bertrum Quan: I'm enjoying listening this evening.
Moon Fargis: ah Play as Listening then :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Would like to listen how you've found PaB so far in regards to my comments before if at all possible Bert
Gaya Ethaniel enjoys listening too
Bertrum Quan: Which comments in particular?
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry, the 'tension' described in the log I just posted. Have you had any similar experience?
Bertrum Quan: I haven't read the log yet...
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure... just posted after all
Tahuti Thor: the tension between those of different faiths?
Gaya Ethaniel: yes and how they interact in PaB
Gaya Ethaniel: in particular
Tahuti Thor: what is everyone in PAB.....part of me believes is best not to say
Gaya Ethaniel: I mean people who participate in these discussions Tahuti
Gaya Ethaniel: oh ok
Tahuti Thor: yes, i was going to ask what are the diff faiths in here
Tahuti Thor: but part of me believes its of no significance
Tahuti Thor: as the human experience is the same
Tahuti Thor: more or less :)
Gaya Ethaniel: yes... I think what resonated most today was what Moon said about '[1:19] Moon Fargis: hmm i think everyone drops something in a different way'
Moon Fargis: ok then lets choose the topic to : Dop things in a different way
Moon Fargis: +r
Gaya Ethaniel: This I'm going to remember everytime I see such tension rising - should do the trick of me not feeling uncomfortable
Tahuti Thor: multiple perspectives for the same moon
Gaya Ethaniel: and how to recognise Moon?
Moon Fargis: what do you want to recognice gaya?
Tahuti Thor: oops , not moon fargis : )
Tahuti Thor: the moon we all share on earth
Gaya Ethaniel: well recognise is not the right word, i mean more 'accepting'
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: I have issues with feeling uncomfortable when people disagree to an extent when they have 'debates' or 'arguments'
Tahuti Thor: its up to the recipient to be able to see from multiple perspectives/angles
Gaya Ethaniel: I seem to hope people agree at times beyond reasons for my own sake feeling ok
Moon Fargis: ahh i know what you want to say.. on second let me look someting up
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Tahuti Thor: open minds can see multiple perspectives/angles
Gaya Ethaniel didn't join debate societies at uni because of this issue though she wanted to learn to debate not argue
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm pretty open minded Tahuti just that I find it uncomfortable watching people argue really
Tahuti Thor: yeah
Gaya Ethaniel: Think it triggers something in my unconscious or past experiences
Tahuti Thor: so what to do when people argue?
Moon Fargis: ok
Moon Fargis: http://www.frei111.de/picts/Kreuz.jpg
Gaya Ethaniel: Well I used to try stopping them by intervening but I know better now and just listen
Moon Fargis: whats this gaya ?
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... not sure what is it Moon?
Moon Fargis: this happens when everyone tell something about the same object in his different ways of viewing
Gaya Ethaniel: unfolded box?
Moon Fargis: http://www.frei111.de/picts/wuerfel.jpg
Moon Fargis: yes
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: lucky guess :P
Tahuti Thor: yes, someone (open minded one) has to serve as a reconciler
Gaya Ethaniel: Yet Tahuti, at times there's no need or nothing to reconcile - this is what I've been trying to 'accept'
Gaya Ethaniel: Let it be...
Gaya Ethaniel: Moon got the tune on your puter by chance?
Gaya Ethaniel has the tune but not sure how to play inworld
Moon Fargis: uhm what?
Moon Fargis: tune on a puter?
Gaya Ethaniel: Let it be by Beatles :)
Gaya Ethaniel: puter = computer sorry
Moon Fargis: ahh no no beatless here
Gaya Ethaniel: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=67J_66hdN-I
Moon Fargis: ahh tis
Moon Fargis: btw we germans say Compi
Moon Fargis: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.allspirit.co.uk/let.html - the words
Moon Fargis: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxR...eature=related
Moon Fargis: i like this more :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: cool puter=compi=computer :)
Moon Fargis: see
Moon Fargis: different ways of saying one thing comes together
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel is constantly learning appropriate 'words' to talk to different people
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah.. Imagine Moon - one of my favourite also
Tahuti Thor: now i do believe people have different mental images in head or mental images of the computer
Tahuti Thor: but the 'feeling" that sparks from this mental image is more or less the same
Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.lyricsdownload.com/beatle...ne-lyrics.html *
Tahuti Thor: comfort, friendly feeling
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: it's more the feelings that come from 'connection' for me Tahuti
Tahuti Thor: i dont think there is any solution to this problem, do u ?
Moon Fargis: is there really a problem ?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I do and that's why I'm here for example
Tahuti Thor: few religions are uncomprimising
Gaya Ethaniel: [2:00] Gaya Ethaniel: Yet Tahuti, at times there's no need or nothing to reconcile - this is what I've been trying to 'accept'
Tahuti Thor: im sorry......in the RL
Gaya Ethaniel: well in RL, it's a balancing act if that's kind of stuff you're referring too
Tahuti Thor: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: that could lead to another big discussion which unfortunately we don't have time for now :)
Bertrum Quan: Thanks, Moon, Gaya, Thauti forthe discussion.
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: see you bert
Tahuti Thor: welcome and thank you
Moon Fargis: yes lets end our discussion for now
Bertrum Quan: Bye everyone
Tahuti Thor: take care you all
Gaya Ethaniel: See you again soon
Moon Fargis: See you later!