2008.08.15 13:00 - The Miracle Chocolate Disco Now

Solobill was guardian.  The comments, and dancing, are his.

I arrived about two minutes early, but not early enough to the be the first.

Solobill Laville: Hello, Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Wol Euler: good evening, gentlepersons.
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Solobill Laville: Hey, Wol
Solobill Laville: (If you don't own land in SL, are you actually a gentleman/woman?)
Solobill Laville: hmmm.
Wol Euler: well, in the historical sense of "gentile" perhaps not.
Solobill Laville: yes, yes
Wol Euler: however given that we no longer consider holding land to be a requirement for participating in democracy, perhaps we can let that go too?
Solobill Laville: True
Solobill Laville: Alas, I am now a squatter ;)
Wol Euler: oh?
Solobill Laville: hehe, yes, I sold my land and not just squat on PaB land...
Solobill Laville: I should probably grow some crops or something...for rent...
Solobill Laville: ;)
Wol Euler: heheh
Wol Euler: sharecropping?
Solobill Laville: Anyway, did anyone have a topic they wanted to bring up?
Solobill Laville: yes, sharecropping
Solobill Laville: :0
Solobill Laville: I was thinking about time yesterday
Solobill Laville: while driving
Wol Euler: I'm talked out, actualy, I came to listen and be invigorated.
Solobill Laville: Well, I don't know about the invigorated part...
Solobill Laville: But you can surely listen!

Adams joined us.

Wol Euler: hello adams
Solobill Laville: Hello, Adams!
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Adams Rubble: Hello everybody :)
Adams Rubble: I can't stay long but wanted to touch base
Solobill Laville: Excellent
Solobill Laville: we're just getting going, did you have anything in particular you wanted to mention Adams?
Solobill Laville: Or bring up, whatever

Adams Rubble: I have two things
Solobill Laville: great!
Adams Rubble: One the seats with the arms in the air
Adams Rubble: The other is it might be a good idea to use something to break up the space
Adams Rubble: I see you have screens
Solobill Laville: Ah, yes, the Hall!
Adams Rubble: :) I thought that was what you meant
Solobill Laville: We have I think 6 screens
Solobill Laville: Sure!
Solobill Laville: I set my stuff to group, so if you wanted you could move them where you think they'd work
Solobill Laville: seats with arms in the air?
Adams Rubble: The meditation mats, we all sit with our arms raised. It looks uncomfortable :)
Solobill Laville: Agreed
Adams Rubble: I see you have mats there too
Solobill Laville: And i think we also need to see who's typing
Wol Euler nods. agreed
Solobill Laville: I think we should set a meeting time and all meet there to make it happen, or whoever can show up, what do you and Avastu think? (are you in the decorating group, Wol?)
Wol Euler: no, I'm lousy at SL building.
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I doubt that
Wol Euler: that is kind of you :-)
Solobill Laville: It's more like interior decorating, Wol
Adams Rubble: What do you think of the idea of meditation mats on one sides and chairs of the other side of the hall?
Solobill Laville: i like the ideas of chairs a lot
Adams Rubble: and yes, I think a meeting would be a good idea rather than each of us going and moving things around
Solobill Laville: OK, do you want to set a time and post it to the Google Group?
Adams Rubble: giggle. hmm
Adams Rubble: You said you were going away?
Solobill Laville: yes, Sunday - Sunday next week, don't really know about accessing the interwebs...
Solobill Laville wonders why he is floating...
Adams Rubble: I was thinking that before or after a guardian meeting might be good but that is difficult with your schedule
Adams Rubble: I am not sure what our plans are yet for this weekend unfortunately
Solobill Laville: Today would work, if I leave at 1:30...
Wol Euler: / brb
Adams Rubble: I can't make it then. I can be back on around 4 SLT today, maybe a bit earlier
Solobill Laville: hmmmm...I may be out then, but no worries
Adams Rubble: We can see who's on. How does that work for you Avastu?
Avastu Maruti: sounds perfect
Adams Rubble: We just missed Storm
Solobill Laville: Ah
Adams Rubble: Threedee is the other member
Solobill Laville: OK, I can post a note to the Google Group and say you'll be meeting in the Hall at 4:00
Adams Rubble: OK, thanks Bill
Solobill Laville: :)

Now that we had that covered I was thinking of you, my dear readers, and covering some content less "house cleaning".

Solobill Laville: Back to time?
Wol Euler: sorry, but Ishall have to drop out for a while, I hope to return before hte end of the session.
Solobill Laville: Bye, Wol
Wol Euler: bye for now
Adams Rubble: bye Wol
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Solobill Laville: My thought, which I've dwelt a bit on before, was this
Solobill Laville: Without time, nothing happens
Solobill Laville: If nothing happens, anyway, [absolute]
Solobill Laville: What is time?
Solobill Laville: It seems qualitatively different than that which the 5 skandas perceive, or cake constructs about
Solobill Laville: Does this make sense?
Adams Rubble: Your last statement lost me
Adams Rubble: or were you talking to Avastu?
Solobill Laville: No, to both of you
Solobill Laville: Sorry, Adams
Solobill Laville: the skandas thing is a bit of Buddha babble
Solobill Laville: Just basically, how we sense and perceive things, our bodies and mind
Adams Rubble: As I proceed I am becoming less sure of time

Yes, Adams, and I agree.  This was kind of where I was thinking the topic of time might go.  Time as a subject, to my brain, is a perfect nugget to illustrate the relative/absolute comundrum.

Adams Rubble: I am a "historian" so that is not easy for me to say
Solobill Laville: hehe
Adams Rubble: But I know past is in our memories
Adams Rubble: We live in the present
Solobill Laville: Well, in the language of relative time must be, of course
Solobill Laville: otherwise nothing would happen

Here I was waiting for Avastu to join in.

Solobill Laville wonders how Avastu can hold his tongue on that comment
Solobill Laville: :)
Adams Rubble: You have to ask Avastu a direct question :)
Adams Rubble: Right Avastu?
Solobill Laville sighs and smiles
Avastu Maruti: not necessarily, my friend
Solobill Laville: I am quite certain, in the absolute, there is no time
Solobill Laville: but that is based on intellectual faith (in the relative)
Solobill Laville: oh, the trap of talking about this stuff ;)
Avastu Maruti: you speak of the absolute as some "place" you have to go, to find
Avastu Maruti: and in that "place", there is no time
Solobill Laville: yes, I agree with that
Avastu Maruti: you are swimming in the Absolute, like a fish looking for water
Solobill Laville: I wonder if there is a correlation in deep meditation, when time disappears from being a "thing",
Solobill Laville: that it seems to slip by so much more quickly
Avastu Maruti: we must simply investigate this "thing" called time
Solobill Laville: Yes, and that has been quite an interesting and challenging investigation for me!
Avastu Maruti: when does anything ever happen?
Solobill Laville: There! That's what I was thinking you'd say Avastu!
Solobill Laville: hehe
Solobill Laville: And I do agree with where you are going with that
Avastu Maruti: so "time" is merely a concept, a noticing of the obviousness of change
Solobill Laville: And the investigation of that, is part of my path, and my lifelong experience with Reality
Solobill Laville: But there can be no change without time, correct?
Solobill Laville: What changes?
Avastu Maruti: time happens as a concept within THIS
Avastu Maruti: you can never get out of NOW, no matter how much imagination
Adams Rubble: Having a hard time leaving. Unfortunately I must go for now; bye Avastu and Bill :)
Solobill Laville: Ah, so it just another part of the illusion
Avastu Maruti: and NOW is more like a "container" than a "moment"
Solobill Laville: Take care, Adams
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

I had a sudden image come to my mind of time and this specific existence of "me".

Solobill Laville: If I see myself, as this mind/body, as a single expression or vehicle or Being
Solobill Laville: And time as a thread that is being pulled through me,
Solobill Laville: but "me" is constant, in an ever-present now
Solobill Laville: things still change, "I" get older, trees drop their leaves
Avastu Maruti: the suggestion is to discard these conceptual imaginings and see direct reality
Avastu Maruti: all "things" are only a conceptual distinction of one totality
Solobill Laville: Yes, and I do appreciate that approach, and it is actually part of my practice
Avastu Maruti: and that totality IS impermanence
Avastu Maruti: and THAT changing appearance appears against a changless, formless background
Avastu Maruti: the "ME" is part of the appearance, an observation
Avastu Maruti: your true essence is the unchanging "screen" or ground of awareness, IN WHICH it all appears
Solobill Laville: So, then, in your opinion, is the purpose of the whole she-bang to present "beings" the opportunity to become aware of Being?

I was thinking here of Maslow a bit, and in the hierarchy of needs a "need" for self-actualization was quite an insight.  (There is also a quote that the purpose of humans is allow the universe to become aware of itself.)

Avastu Maruti: purpose is only given in concept
Avastu Maruti: we are not talking about opinion, we are talking about the direct perception of reality
Avastu Maruti: yet it seems we must boil away our concepts to get there
Solobill Laville: Indeed we do
Avastu Maruti: so whatever happens, whatever it IS, is a totality of appearance
Avastu Maruti: it doesn't matter what the content is
Avastu Maruti: content is only given in mind
Solobill Laville: But I'll tell you, between you and me Avastu, the fact that anything IS at all is an unfathomable miracle to me
Avastu Maruti: yes!
Solobill Laville smiles
Avastu Maruti: simply SEE for yourself that this activity of "knowing" is happening
Avastu Maruti: it's like a light that is always on
Avastu Maruti: illuminating ALL appearances
Avastu Maruti: and that body-mind mechanism appears IN THAT
Avastu Maruti: you are already beyond, prior TO, witnessing it
Avastu Maruti: you are ALREADY what you seek
Avastu Maruti: yet seeking it seemingly obscures it
Avastu Maruti: it's a desire for something better, something "more"
Avastu Maruti: THIS is IT! Whatever THIS happens to be!
Avastu Maruti: yet you remain prior to, knowing it
Avastu Maruti: never touched
Avastu Maruti: never changing
Avastu Maruti: the "me" that can suffer is only an appearance IN this
Avastu Maruti: the false "self-center"
Avastu Maruti: the world can only exist in relativity
Avastu Maruti: and relativity requires a reference point
Avastu Maruti: yet that reference point is simply for appearance

Solobill Laville: Are you familiar with the waterfall analogy?
Avastu Maruti: no, my friend
Solobill Laville: I'll paraphrase, if you'd like
Avastu Maruti: sure
Solobill Laville: All is the river, rolling along
Solobill Laville: then, a waterfall
Solobill Laville: a tall long one
Solobill Laville: where the water separates into tiny beads and drops and mist
Solobill Laville: that is this existence, each of us, separatem but in essense the same and one
Solobill Laville: At the bottom of the fall
Solobill Laville: The water joins again, all is the river, rolling along
Solobill Laville: It's nice, but then there's that issue with time again...(for me)
Avastu Maruti: very nice
Avastu Maruti: yes, time can only be a question for a "me"
Solobill Laville: :)
Avastu Maruti: who else could it apply to?
Avastu Maruti: time is a recognition of the obviousness of change, impermanence
Avastu Maruti: yet it assumes that there is some "when" else than THIS
Solobill Laville: yep
Avastu Maruti: THIS HERE NOW
Avastu Maruti: time appears in the "world", in the appearance
Avastu Maruti: let that take care of itself - you are already beyond
Solobill Laville: That's is why I try to in fact, let it take care of itself
Avastu Maruti: Who tries?

That did it.  ;)

Solobill Laville: Avastu, pretty soon I'm gonna make my avatar dance then sit down next to you smiling!
Avastu Maruti gave you Chocolate Disco2.
Solobill Laville: Chocolate Disco ♪
Avastu Maruti: Chocolate Disco ♪
Solobill Laville: Chocolate Disco ♪

Solobill Laville smiles
Avastu Maruti: When we recognize, not conceptualize, but really SEE that we are THAT, Oneness - all is a celebration
Avastu Maruti: a miracle
Solobill Laville: I'd like to be able to nurture that into my all day everyday life!
Solobill Laville: Work in progress...
Avastu Maruti: the "one" who wants to nurture IS itself the obstacle
Avastu Maruti: simply investigate the possibility that the "person" you've taken yourself to be is a fiction, an assumption
Avastu Maruti: see if it has any reality, outside of concepts
Solobill Laville: I'm quite sure of that (an assumption)
Solobill Laville: But I still need to put on my pants in the morning and head to work
Avastu Maruti: the gap between conviction and "not quite sure" holds the entire world
Avastu Maruti: Who does these things? Aren't they going on anyway?
Solobill Laville: Let me dwell on that thought for a while :)
Solobill Laville: Until next time!
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend