2008.08.04 01:00- Can we change reality?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya and the comments are Gaya’s. Rats! I forgot to ask the new person regarding the log, so her name is replaced here as NA.

    Wol was already at the pavilion when I arrived. I again find myself saying same things at the same time with people at PaB.


    Wol Euler: hello Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good to see you again Wol
    Wol Euler smiles. Likewise
    Gaya Ethaniel likes what Wol's wearing
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... changed from green to black just now?
    Wol Euler: ah, I just changed back to the balck jacket, I can't find a good colour sweater to match the rest
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'again!'
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: I have an awful lot of clothes, but tend to wear the same outfit for weeks on end.
    Gaya Ethaniel: same here... I'm very short so some of things I buy need to be edited which I can't be bothered doing most of times
    Wol Euler: ach, yes. Every prim clothing-object I own has had to be edited for my arse and belly.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    I tell Wol that I’m learning to build things in SL and she offers to show her vehicle ‘Cushicle’ that she’s been working on. While we discuss interior scheme, Wol tells me that she lacks courage to create and feel safe while the work is being worked on from others’ criticism.


    Gaya Ethaniel: Went to Ivory Tower again today. Fascinating stuff...
    Wol Euler nods. Yes indeed.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I imagine you can do many techie stuff in SL by listening to you yesterday, incl. building
    Wol Euler: I have done a little building, yes, but not very elaborate. I'm working on a slow vehicle, a kind of flying sofa.
    Wol Euler: fidddling since months with the fine-tuning, just can't get the interior to satisfy me
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh... flying sofa. Rings a bell somewhere but can't recall where I saw a flying sofa, a film perhaps
    Wol Euler: can i rez things here as guardian?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure why not go ahead?
    Wol Euler: well, I'll show you before the others arrive :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel activates her PaB guardian tag as it's her first GOC session.
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Wol Euler: so, this is the Cushicle.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Cushicle :)
    Wol Euler: it flies very slowly, gentle banking curves
    Gaya Ethaniel: So... you don't like the red fabric?
    Wol Euler: CUSHion vehICLE
    Wol Euler: I find hte red too ... actzive, bold, un-lelaxed
    Gaya Ethaniel: Red is nice but yes it's more vibrant than relaxing. Depends what you're aiming at really
    Wol Euler: well, this is where I run aground. I lack the confidence in my own taste to play freely with the textures and colours.
    Wol Euler: I'm quite happy to script it and build the shapes, but the colour and texturing defeats me.
    Gaya Ethaniel: why... from what I've seen you wearing so far, you have a good eye
    Wol Euler: thank you. the difference is: I appreicate what exists, but have trouble creating.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'd suggest you adding blue/brown elements into the stripes. Btw, the textures and colour scheme is very cottage which is nice & cosy
    Wol Euler: cosy was the intention.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well just need to play around really
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I'd say this is rather cosy indeed

    As no one else is turning up for the meeting, we continue our discussion on Cushicle.


    Wol Euler: SL is full of sharp and violent and fast vehicles, I wanted to make the opposite of that
    Wol Euler: there are two sets of poseballs, sitting for flight and lying down for being somewhere
    Gaya Ethaniel: How about throwing more cushions back the back
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Wol Euler: well, I'm running out of prims! There can only be 30 prims in a two-seater physics vehicle!
    Gaya Ethaniel: As the vehicle is round, you could add square cushions rather than round ones here
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh... i see
    Wol Euler: I've already simplified the body twice.
    Wol Euler: the next step would have to be making scuplties
    Gaya Ethaniel: Try out square cushion with diff combination of strips on one of the cushion - you try out and let's see
    Gaya Ethaniel: sculpties?
    Wol Euler: free-form shapes, like your shoes or my boots, or parts of our hair
    Gaya Ethaniel: may i try to sit?
    Wol Euler: please
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh nice this pose
    Wol Euler smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: I see.. all these terms I'm not familiar with
    Wol Euler: thtey're all freebies, have to be else I can't distribute them.
    Wol Euler: but it will be sold modifyable, so people could put in their own favourite poses
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh i c... i've got a long way to go about building stuff in SL :)
     Gaya Ethaniel: Nice one Wol
    Wol Euler smiles. It'sa long and twisty path.
    Wol Euler: thank you!
    Gaya Ethaniel: I look forward to seeing progress soon :)
    Wol Euler: yes, me too! I want to get hte damned thing finished.
    Wol Euler: :-)

    As we head back to the pavilion, I notice that Wol is focusing on ‘finishing’ rather than on the process of creating. This prompts me to ask her a question on one of her previous statement.


    Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... so you mentioned (scrolling up one sec)
    Gaya Ethaniel: [1:07] Wol Euler: thank you. the difference is: I appreicate what exists, but have trouble creating.
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: (shall we sit?)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Did you mean you just need to learn the techniques to create or you need inspiration?
    Wol Euler: what I most need is courage, actually. I am sticking at having to make a decision
    Wol Euler: as long as it's a work in progress I am safe from criticism, I can always say "it will be better soon"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is it hard to 'try out'?
    Wol Euler: once I finish it, I am vulnerable.
    Wol Euler: it becomes harder as time goes on, yes.
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... I'd be cautious using the word 'finish'
    Gaya Ethaniel: If you look at it as your AV, you change clothes yes?
    Wol Euler nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: You could look at your vehicle that way too
    Gaya Ethaniel: In progress, have fun
    Gaya Ethaniel: What others tell you can't break you... you are not breakable anyhow to begin with
    Wol Euler: well
    Gaya Ethaniel: If comments come from people you're comfortable with, they mean no harm and you may pick up some good ideas too. Also we can learn from bad ideas as well :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: pls go on
    Wol Euler laughs
    Wol Euler: very true.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I learn more from mistakes rather than success - it's not easy to forget muck ups

    It seems that Wol is not really enjoying her Cushicle project. I do a ridiculous dance for Wol in order to break the tension that may arise within her regarding ‘I can’t do art’ thoughts.


    Wol Euler: I find it hard to maintain playfulness in matters of appearance (of the cushicle)
    Gaya Ethaniel wonders why...
    Wol Euler: Changing its shape, the way it flies: easy.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok...
    Wol Euler: I think it's because the interior, hte colours and texture, are "art" and I have always told myself and been told that I can't do that.
    Gaya Ethaniel: This is how I stop myself taking things so seriously
    Wol Euler: hehehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'd never do this in RL
    Wol Euler grins to remember that the dance really irritated fael.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well who is telling you that... pls let me know
    Wol Euler: lol
    Wol Euler: pelople long dead, ikn some cases.
    Wol Euler: but still echoing in my head.

    Tahuti joins us. I make a mental note to do the dance for Fael next time we meet. And like a magic, Fael appears.


    Wol Euler: hello Tahuti
    Gaya Ethaniel: Did it irritated Fael? Should do it to her next time
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: well, she askd you to stop
    Gaya Ethaniel: So it's in fact yourself who is telling you that you're not good enough right?
    Tahuti Thor: hello
    Wol Euler: oh yes-
    Wol Euler: hello Fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Wol, Gaya, Tahuti :)
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel is thinking how best to condense her thoughts to be useful for Wol re 'not good enough'
    Wol Euler: (I'm having a kind of "writer's block" on the interior colours and txtures of a vehicle I'm building)
    Tahuti Thor: hello everyone :)

    N/A joins us. And I put my guardian hat on and try to introduce PaB to N/A with Fael’s help while continuing my discussion with Wol. Ah… the challenge of multi-tasking.


    Fael Illyar: Hello N/A
    Wol Euler: hi N/A.
    N/A: HI
    N/A: where am i??
    N/A: :)
    Wol Euler: perhaps right where you should be.
    N/A: probably
    Wol Euler: :-)
    N/A: usually is the way
    N/A: so like
    N/A: what are you guys doing here?
    Gaya Ethaniel: OK... when I judge myself against a 'standard' that I'd like to achieve, I don't really enjoy doing the actual activity... the irony is that I improve best when I enjoy what I do. So the negative mindset is counter-productive... however it's hard to rid of the judging/overtly critical thoughts. I got over it by realising that the desired 'standard' would always rise which means as long as I'm focused on 'achievement' or producing something to be proud of, I'm not in fact doing any good in terms of the activity and my own enjoyment
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    N/A: WOW
    N/A: WHAT?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hi N/A. Welcome to Play as Being group discussion, which are open to everyone.
    N/A: oh kay then
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let me give you a relevant site that you can look at
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    N/A shouts: this is shouting ma'am
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ you can find more info on what we do under Hits section in particular
    Gaya Ethaniel: We are experimenting with a type of meditation '9 seconds', in which we stop every 15 mins for 9 sec. Then we get together here in SL 1 AM, 7 AM, 1 PM, 7 PM to discuss our experience
    Fael Illyar: That's Hints, not hits :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'thanks Fael'
    Gaya Ethaniel: So... Wol. Does what I said make any sense?
    Gaya Ethaniel: N/A, please shout if any questions at anytime
    N/A: ok thanks nice lady
    N/A: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Wol Euler: yes, thank you.

    N/A asks if PaB is purely for discussion and I grab this opportunity to do the dance to Fael.

    N/A: so like is this just a discussion area?


    Gaya Ethaniel understands that this is Fael's favourite dance
    Fael Illyar: it is? That's news to me :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes we play and sometimes we discuss seriously. Each session is unique N/A
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hence 'Play' as Being :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So Wol... if you're hung up on 'arty' stuff... let me give you a tool to work with
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you read magazines?
    Wol Euler: please :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or newspapers?
    Gaya Ethaniel: stuff with images
    Wol Euler: mags, yes.
    Gaya Ethaniel: cool then I'd suggest you start a 'scrapbook'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Cut out whatver takes your fancy and start sticking them onto a notebook or something like that
    N/A: sorry friends i crashed
    N/A: :p
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb N/A
    N/A: my connection is lame tonight
    N/A: its sooo friggen annoying
    Gaya Ethaniel: Over the time, you will start to see what you like and also develop certain style
    N/A: gosh this default sit is boring
    Gaya Ethaniel: The collection will evolve organically, sometimes depending on your mood (you can create mood board here, ie colour combinations) and sometime you may want to draw something next to a photo
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's totally up to you!
    Wol Euler nods. I see
    Wol Euler: all right, I'll try that out. thank you.
    Fael Illyar: N/A, there is another pose in the pillow to your left.
    Gaya Ethaniel: When you need an inspiration, you can refer to your portfolio then
    N/A: oh thank you Fael
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    N/A: CHUR.
    N/A: this one is cute
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you N/A
    N/A: whut?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let me know Wol outside PaB if you want me to help in anyway
    Wol Euler smiles

    N/A asks Wol about her name and this doesn’t really fly.


    N/A: what kind of name is Wol?
    N/A: is it european?
    N/A: :p
    Wol Euler: no, it's english actually
    Gaya Ethaniel looks at N/A's profile
    N/A: o.O
    N/A: Gaya
    Wol Euler: much like yours
    N/A: you defile my profile
    N/A: never heard of Wol ma'am
    N/A: :)
    N/A: just saying
    Gaya Ethaniel: Humourous profile picture N/A
    N/A: thanks
    Wol Euler: ah, then you haven't read Winnie the Pooh.
    N/A: im an artist
    N/A: no i havent
    N/A: wow its from a book?
    N/A: :D
    Wol Euler smiles
    N/A: i never much read winnie the pooh
    Gaya Ethaniel has been to the forest
    N/A: o.o
    N/A: you tripping Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: No... the book is set at a forest 'Ashdown Forest' in England where the author grew up...

    After N/A leaves, I find out that my mind strangely didn’t register much of shouting from N/A. Also apparently I’d been behaving badly at PaB yesterday!


    Wol Euler: well, thank Christ for that.
    Wol Euler: I was about to lose my otherwise enviably deep cool.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yeah... even myself (Korean) knows Pooh.... I'm surprised
    Fael Illyar: it's a good opportunity to practise keeping the cool :)
    Wol Euler: oh right, I should be thankful. mmhmm
    Gaya Ethaniel: Were you guys irritated by N/A? Why?
    Fael Illyar was more amused.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Didn't feel a thing :(
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well yes except that I wanted to read Pooh suddenly :)
     Fael Illyar: well, she felt like an attention grabber.
    Fael Illyar: (yes, I did look at her profile)
    Wol Euler: and an idiot.
    Wol Euler: and a rude noob too.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Oh... I missed out the 'shouting' bits!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Must have been typing away my thoughts to Wol
    Wol Euler: that#s when it happened :-)
    Fael Illyar: but you commented on the shouting?
    Wol Euler: anyway. blood under the bridge.
    Wol Euler: yes, I did
    Wol Euler: well, no, I explained that it was considered shouting here inSL.
    Wol Euler: because she clearly didn't know
    Fael Illyar: ah, you mean capital letters. She also used SL's shout once.
    Faenik: ah :)
    Wol Euler: she became furious at thte sugestion that there was something that she might not know
    Wol Euler: anyway.
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... common response that...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not being critical here Wol but to be honest, it seems that her shouting didn't stick out ot me as much as it did to you. I wonder why...
    Wol Euler: well. My alt does a lot of mentoring on Orientation Island, teaching newborns. Most of htem are glad of advice.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Wol Euler: It only stuck out becaose she clearly didn't know that she was doing it.
    Gaya Ethaniel: sure
    Wol Euler: because of hte mentoring, I am in the habit of trying to teach people things that they clearly don't know
    Wol Euler: perhaps it is a bad habit.
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... yes perhaps
    Gaya Ethaniel: If I was new here and start dancing as I did... what would have been your response?
    Wol Euler: nothing, unless it went on for a long time, then I would ask in IM whether you were stuck.
    Wol Euler: given as you say that you were a newbie, and I do read profiles.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: So you would tell something to me at any rate.
    Wol Euler: and as fael said to you yesterday, I woud direct your attention to the "stop animating" machine
    Wol Euler: I would ask, "are you stuck? because that happens sometimes"
    Gaya Ethaniel: ? I don't recall that
    Fael Illyar: you crashed right then
    Wol Euler: yep
    Gaya Ethaniel: yeah...
    Wol Euler: stuck
    Fael Illyar: but your AV was dancing some sort of a dance for a couple of minutes until you dropped offline

    Meanwhile, I tell Wol that there seems to be a connection between her wanting to ‘help’ N/A and her feelings towards Cushicle. I tread carefully as not to offend Wol but she seems to be very open minded about this.


    Gaya Ethaniel: Well, I guess what I'm clumsily trying with you Wol is that
    Gaya Ethaniel: After listening to your thoughts on 'not good at arty stuff'
    Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder whether you have a rather solid idea of how things should be... somehow I thought that there could be a connection between that kind of mindset and you wanting to explain things to people
    Fael Illyar: I think it's only attachments that keep people from being creative.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ah... did I? Funny... had so many crashes yesterday
    Fael Illyar: the most serious ones being "I can't" and "I shouldn't"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Fael which also leads to 'you can't 'you shouldn't
    Gaya Ethaniel: can also lead to*
    Wol Euler ponders.
    Gaya Ethaniel: no such thing 'can' 'can't' with arty stuff ex. you have a pen and a book, just strike a line out. That's ok
    Fael Illyar: of course, in the process of creating things, you tend to develop attachments to certain things in your work. Bad if the certain thing doesn't fit in :)
    Faenik loves wells!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Having a 'standard' to compare against in one's mind, create that unsatisfactory feelings
    Fael Illyar: well, depends on the other attachments you have given the work :)
    Wol Euler: I think that is true in this case, I had an idea (unresolved) of how it should be, but now that I find that iut doesn't fit, I cannot let go to do something else.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes Wol, I find it extremely useful to step back and come back when I get the 'itch'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Meanwhile not feeling bad or guilty about not continuing the activity
    Wol Euler nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: You are creating the vehicle for your enjoyment yes?
    Wol Euler: yses
    Gaya Ethaniel: Why turn that activity to feel bad?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Leave it and come back to it again when you want to

    Fael offers a helpful example from her own experience which shows how developing attachments can hinder our enjoyment and progress. I’m also glad to hear that the talk I gave to Fael was helpful to her.


    Fael Illyar: I've spent a long time working on a new wing design. Mostly because I stop when I notice I'm developing attachments. Although, lately, it seems I might have figured out how to let those go while working.
    Gaya Ethaniel: If it's important enough to you, you will get the 'itch' again
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Fael pls tell us
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    Fael Illyar: it's something that isn't expressable in words too easily.
    Fael Illyar: Let me think about how for a moment :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
    Fael Illyar: I guess it's been improving with my overall ability to let go of attachments.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Fael Illyar: Well, mostly, I just realise that whatever I'm attached to is not really important
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes that's crucial
    Gaya Ethaniel: From the realisation, it's not too difficult to let go I think
    Wol Euler nods
    Faenik: why not?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Fael how did you get to that realisation?
    Fael Illyar: That part I'm not so clear about.
    Wol Euler: huh
    Fael Illyar: it's been happening over several weeks
    Gaya Ethaniel: So gradually?
    Fael Illyar: Yes, feels like small steps at a time ... although, something in the audio piece you emailed yesterday gave me a bit more push.
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: but I find I can't put it to words what it was
    Fael Illyar: oh wait, was it the day before yesterday?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Apologies for repeating here but for me it was the realisation that my internal standard that I compare myself against will always go up and I'll never reach it so given up on 'improving' idea
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'that's great'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wol, pls let me know your email address later so that I can email you the talk
    Wol Euler: done
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: Gaya, you can look those up from the google group :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Cool :)
    Fael Illyar: you can get the email addresses for the other members from there
    Gaya Ethaniel: Oh ok...
    Wol Euler: I am probably too attached to the idea of improving hte world.
    Wol Euler: As an architect and the child of two teachers it does come naturally though.
    Gaya Ethaniel: We can't... we can only 'improve' ourselves which hopefully then in turn makes the world better
    Wol Euler nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think the talk will help you a little
    Wol Euler: ty

    Fael explains more about what she gained from the talk which leads us to discuss whether we can change ‘reality.’


    Fael Illyar: I think that talk hits on some really core points.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pls tell us Fael
    Fael Illyar: about accepting the world
    Fael Illyar: I find myself unable to explain what it is, exactly.
    Wol Euler grins wryy.
    Wol Euler: *wryly
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Fael Illyar: of course, accepting the world doesn't mean you give up trying to change it :)
    Wol Euler frowns. How does that work?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I used to feel angry about that... why this happened to me, why did that person said this to me bla bla bla
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well once I accepted that that's how it is and life/world have limits and fault in nature, those negative feelings just went
    Fael Illyar: to change the world, you need to see what it is, right now.
    Fael Illyar: attachments have the tendency to cloud that
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's right Fael, it's not giving up because we are here pondering what we can do to 'better' our understanding
    Fael Illyar: if you mentally reject "what is"
    Fael Illyar: it is giving up but not giving up the part that counts :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Fael Illyar: you give up the resistance to "what is". That doesn't prevent you from changing it.
    Wol Euler ponders
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... don't think we can change 'what is' Fael except our understanding and awareness of 'what is'
    Faenik: why not?
    Wol Euler: indeed, why not?
    Fael Illyar: Gaya, I'm wondering if we understand "what is" the same way in this context.
    Gaya Ethaniel: possibly... yes I'm referring to how things are here. Did you mean the attachments, thoughts and emotions?
    Fael Illyar: there's the physical reality and then your thoughts, emotions.
    Fael Illyar: you can look at the physical reality, as it is and not try to reject it with thoughts.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Guess how I understood was 'reality' = 'what is'
    Fael Illyar: but that doesn't preclude you from attempting to change the physical reality
    Gaya Ethaniel: So in this case... how would you change the reality? An example would help me to understand better
    Fael Illyar: Well, take Wol's wanting to improve the world.
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm hmm
    Fael Illyar: What is it, if not a wish to change the world by teaching?
    Fael Illyar: does teaching not change something?
    Wol Euler: it certainly hopes to
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... what do you mean by 'teaching' here? talking to people with intention of teaching?
    Wol Euler: in SL that is abut all one can do, and distribute notecards
    Gaya Ethaniel: As long as I am open to accept it though..
    Gaya Ethaniel: or seeking the teachings
    Wol Euler: true.
    Fael Illyar: Of course, you can't teach people things they don't want to learn
    Wol Euler: very true. Nor can you teach people who perceive suggestion as insult.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I see the importance of availabilities of 'teachings' yes but the willingness has to come from myself
    Fael Illyar: so, to rephrase, you can't change the world but you can help it change.
    Fael Illyar: which is what talking about changing the world can mean I think.
    Tahuti Thor: you do change it
    Faenik: indeed?
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes, ultimately that's what we can do, by changing ourselves, connecting to others meaningfully and bit by bit we could do some good, maybe we can't but the results are not my motivation of what I do and how I live my life
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Tahuti, tell us more
    Fael Illyar: Yes, when you move the want to change the world from primary goal to something you'll do if you see a good chance, it becomes more effective.
    Fael Illyar: attachment, however, will hamper that.
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's true... I'm a part of this world, reality. As I make changes to myself, I'm also altering the reality somewhat
    Gaya Ethaniel: And how I relate to people and how they relate to me
    Gaya Ethaniel: and so on and so on
    Gaya Ethaniel: Agree Fael
    Gaya Ethaniel: All journeys start with the frst step :)
    Tahuti Thor: well i believe everythinig we do is changing the world
    Tahuti Thor: no matter how big or small
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    We then go back to ‘attachments’ which somehow makes us return to ‘changing reality.’ Everything seems to be related and connected…


    Gaya Ethaniel: I was reading Bunan's blog yesterday
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    Tahuti Thor: u might not be aware that u affect people but u do
    Gaya Ethaniel: He said that he can let go of everything that he identifies himself with except the following three: 1. Love 2. Genorosity 3. Integrity
    Gaya Ethaniel: That I'd like to also hold onto. I don't see those as 'attachment'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Tahuti
    Fael Illyar: they can be attachments but the "letting go" we speak of here doesn't mean you'd lose them.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Fael I know what you mean :)
    Faenik: ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: If i truly understood something, no need to be attached to.. just stay with me naturally
    Gaya Ethaniel: I guess that is 'change' we just talked about
    Fael Illyar: Yes, that's it, pretty much.

    The session has been going on for about an hour and half by now Tahuti leaves us. Fael raise another point regarding attachment, ‘blind faith.’


    Tahuti Thor: sorry i gtg
    Fael Illyar: I wonder if you can call attachment a "blind faith"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for dropping by Tahuti. Good day to you
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Fael Illyar: See you later Tahuti :)
    Wol Euler: bye tahuti
    Tahuti Thor: thank u for the discussion
     Tahuti Thor: have nice day
    Tahuti Thor: bye
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes we could Fael and for some of attachments, it could be more of simple 'clinging'
    Gaya Ethaniel: What kind of examples do you have for attachments being 'blind faith'?
    Fael Illyar: I tend to think that's what fundamentalist people do.
    Gaya Ethaniel: OK how does the faith translate into attachments?
    Fael Illyar: extreme example :)
    Fael Illyar: it changes the meaning radically if you remove the "blind" from "blind faith".
    Wol Euler nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... I'm still trying to see how we can use attachments instead of faith as in 'blind faith'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because I think there are different levels or types of attachments
    Fael Illyar: "blind faith" is developing an attachment as a rule to live by, without really understanding the rule or why it exists.
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Fael Illyar: the attachment makes you unable to consider breaking the rule in any situation.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Fael Illyar: it doesn't prevent you from just breaking it, it prevents you from considering that.
    Fael Illyar: just considering will make the attachment start defending itself
    Fael Illyar: that's what makes them attachments I think. They defend themselves
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes... for some even considering is unthinkable
    Gaya Ethaniel: that makes it extreme attachment
    Fael Illyar: yes, the milder forms just make you uncomfortable when you're considering
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    As we have ran over considerably, we close our discussion with a promise to continue another time.


    Wol Euler: (back)
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb
    Fael Illyar: But, I really need to get some RL things done so I'll excuse myself now. Hopefully we can continue this some other meeting?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
    Fael Illyar: See you later :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks both for dropping by
    Wol Euler smles
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: thank you both, it was a good session
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