2008.08.06 01:00 - Pancakes

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    That night, I (Pema) spent a few minutes all by myself, quite a change from the previous night where there were eight of us. After a while Wol strolled in.

    Wol Euler: good morning, or evening or night.
    Pema Pera: Good something :)
    Wol Euler: good, in any case :-)
    Pema Pera: interesting to see you emerging out of a local little fog
    Pema Pera: in the new viewer :)
    Wol Euler: Just walked downtown for a cappuccino under chestnut trees and blue sky, very pleasant
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, it's a pretty effect
    Pema Pera: wonderful .. .
    Wol Euler: though to be honest I liked and miss Ruth :-)
    Wol Euler: my alt is a mentor, it was quite funny to see a half-dozen Ruths arrive at once, and gradually turn into tall men
    Pema Pera: the release notes said "instead of grey naked figures"
    Wol Euler: (on the Orientation islands)
    Pema Pera: but I still see everyone grey and naked for a while AFTER coming out of the fog
    Pema Pera: I guess we can have it all now . . ..
    Wol Euler nods. The asset server still often lags behind
    Wol Euler: I have been wondering about Caspian yesterday. I could not hve remained without seriously losing my temper
    Wol Euler: yet find it odd to be so defensive of, attached to, a practice that I don't actually do :-)
    Pema Pera: did you read the rest of the log?
    Wol Euler: I think it was his disrespect of the community.
    Wol Euler: ah, no, it hadn't yet been posted. Ihave just logged in.
    Pema Pera: it has
    Pema Pera: I posted it serveral hours ago
    Pema Pera: eight hours?
    Wol Euler: I'll look later, or should I read and we can discuss?
    Pema Pera: oh no
    Pema Pera: let's leave that for another time
    Pema Pera: well, what do you think, shall we take the opportunity to finally get to your "Unbehagen" :-)
    Wol Euler: ok
    Wol Euler: hahaha
    Wol Euler: yes, let#s.

    For several days now, we had been IMing to and fro about talking about Unbehagen :)

    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/good-and-bad-attachments/
    Wol Euler: as I said it was principally a _linguistic_ discomfort (a meta-unbehagen)
    Wol Euler: that I could not find in my native language a word for a German concept
    Pema Pera: Wol Euler smiles. There’s a word missing in English. In German I would say “unbehaglich”
    Wol Euler: irritated, discomforted, disturbed, made uneasy.
    Pema Pera: can you summarize why/how you wanted to use that word?
    Wol Euler nods. It is a compound of those sensations but not exactly either of those emotions
    Pema Pera: (btw, it happens to me all the time, Japanese or English or German words popping up that are more suitable than words I know in Dutch -- and the other way around)
    Pema Pera: yes, the joy of languages!
    Wol Euler smiles. Indeed
    Wol Euler: as I remember, I was surprised by the absolutism implied in the idea that being attached to this practice might be a bad attachment.
    Pema Pera: ah yes, good point -- simply saying all attachments are bad is too simplistic :)
    Wol Euler: In retrospect, I see that I was focussing on the doubt of teh practice, whereas Fael was cautoining against extremism
    Wol Euler: but it did disturb and worry me.
    Pema Pera: yes, I think both of you made valid points
    Pema Pera: words are like bricks where you would like to use very fine pencils
    Wol Euler: absolutely.
    Wol Euler: so to speak
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: relatively speaking too
    Wol Euler: true, though perhaps less so?
    Pema Pera: in absolute terms, nothing can be said, strictly speaking
    Pema Pera: all language is relative, and using relative language to try to point to the absolute is a delightful running joke
    Pema Pera: very funny
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pema Pera: strangely enough can be useful
    Pema Pera: but let me ask
    Pema Pera: what is your biggest question with respect to Being, Wol?
    Wol Euler blows out her cheeks.
    Wol Euler: well.
    Pema Pera: hahaha

    Wol is one of the most verbally graphic residents I have met in Second Life!

    Wol Euler: I suppose my relation to it, my doubts about my place in the absolute world that it posits.
    Wol Euler: I tried to make a distinction between belief and religion in an earlier session, which i feel is related.
    Wol Euler: (to my Unbehagen about being)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Wol Euler: that religion is what happens when a personal bellief "should be" carried across to a multitude
    Wol Euler: the way that the belief becomes codified and formalized and very rigid, unforgiving.
    Wol Euler: "An eye for an eye" goes from being the humanizing principle that you do not kill a man because he punched you,
    Wol Euler: to being a declaration that you _must_ hurt someone in proprotion to the hurt he does you
    Pema Pera listens with great interest, and nods
    Wol Euler: I do believe, but I reject all religion categorically
    Wol Euler: the question that PaB sessdions have raised is of course, what exactly is this Belief thing that I believe that I do?
    Wol Euler: (Rl, sorry, give me a moment)
    Pema Pera: sure
    Wol Euler: so, back, sorry.
    Pema Pera: np!
    Wol Euler: I was quite surprised to hear Christianity coming out between you and Adams the other day, I hadn't expected to hear that here at all.
    Wol Euler: But then I thought, why not?
    Pema Pera: oh, as has been said, I like to speak many languages -- Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, also the language of Science, as well as plain every-day inquiry, from scratch
    Wol Euler: yes, and they all do speak to us. Their languages overlap.
    Pema Pera: I remember when it was that I found the ability to do so -- or the ability found me
    Pema Pera: in April 1994
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Pema Pera: I suddenly realized that I could open any book on spirituality
    Pema Pera: and (more or less) `get' what they were pointing at
    Pema Pera: (not in all precise detail, but) the gist of it
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: the main point
    Pema Pera: funny that it was a rather sharp transition
    Pema Pera: I had been working on it for only 24 years :-)
    Wol Euler: ha
    Wol Euler: the typical story of the "overnight success"
    Pema Pera: many other little or not-so-little steps
    Pema Pera: so-called progress is funny
    Pema Pera: not straight, often in jumps, sometimes more gradual though
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: as we see here so nicely illustrated in all its variety with different participants
    Wol Euler: true
    Wol Euler: I find it significant thaat we can all find a common vocabulary, even though few of us can articulate what we wish to say in int.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: shows we are groping in the dark, but not in vain
    Pema Pera: there's something there there

    Wol brought up a book with an interesting sounding title.

    Wol Euler: Do you know the book "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsh?
    Pema Pera: no?
    Wol Euler: yep , definitely
    Wol Euler: I think it would intrigue and amuse you, or annoy you to hell :-)
    Pema Pera: hahaha, the latter not likely
    Wol Euler: it is literally a conversation with God, NDW lets G speak through his fingers, just typing down what comes to him and replying to it or asking questions of it.
    Pema Pera: makes sense
    Pema Pera: I have had periods in which I've done similar things -- typically making "sallies" as I call them, for a few minutes and then writing down what happened, in a way like a waking dream of sorts
    Pema Pera: I think Adams is getting close to something similar
    Wol Euler: I was very skeptical about it, avoided reading hte book (which my favourite cousin gave me) for years.
    Wol Euler: To my own surprise, I enjoyed the book. It reads very well: neither "preachy" nor "touchy-feely". Whether the reader believes that God moved NDW's hand, whether NDW himself believes that, is irrelevant.
    Wol Euler: The amusing thing is that unless you categorically reject that God would commmunicate with us, there is no reason not to believe it:
    Pema Pera: exactly
    Pema Pera: you may called it "unconscious"
    Wol Euler: NDW: "how can I know this communication is from God? How do I know this is not my own imagination?"
    Pema Pera: or even "collective unconscious"
    Pema Pera: or any label from any religion
    Pema Pera: but if what comes through is valuable
    Pema Pera: you can't beat it :)
    Wol Euler: God replies: "What would be the difference? Do you not see that I could just as easily work through your imagination as anything else?"
    Pema Pera: that's exactly it, nice!
    Pema Pera: from the point of view of the absolute, all of the relative is absolute, after all
    Wol Euler: I was reminded of something I read a few years back and can only imperfectly remember, where a scientist or philosopher was chided for not deriding fortune tellers. His reply was that an effective fortune teller is someone who is a good judge of people and has accumulated a great deal of knowledge about how the world works; the reading of tea leaves or whatever is only a frame in which to present this knowledge.
    Pema Pera: that is one projection, yes, partly valid -- the problem is if we take one projection and make that the only and complete explanation
    Pema Pera: then we cut off other possibilities
    Wol Euler: which is where we return to Fael cautioning not to become attached to PaB
    Wol Euler: the tool is not the work.
    Pema Pera: yes

    Another circle closed, and back to Play as Being.

    Pema Pera: I think the secret of PaB is that it works through subtraction, not addition in any way
    Pema Pera: most religions add something -- some particular path, and structures of many kinds
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pema Pera: we start with what we find we have -- drop that -- look for what we are
    Pema Pera: so the core of PaB is subtraction
    Pema Pera: and around that we can "Play at addition"
    Pema Pera: but the plays are all tentative
    Pema Pera: like children playing with blocks
    Pema Pera: for a while
    Pema Pera: until it is time to go home
    Pema Pera: and be fed
    Wol Euler: :-)

    This gave me an opening for sharing a recent insight, that had hit me pleasantly.

    Pema Pera: may I share an idea I had yesterday?
    Wol Euler: please do
    Pema Pera: I have been musing and chewing over
    Pema Pera: the paradox -- always nice to have good paradoxes
    Wol Euler grins
    Pema Pera: of wanting to keep PaB completely open
    Pema Pera: and yet wanting to also convey the core gem of what I've found -- the reason that I call it Play as Being rather than just Play
    Pema Pera: and someone a solution offered itself
    Pema Pera: In our group we could have an empty center, in which we talk about ways of subtracting
    Pema Pera: dropping having
    Pema Pera: finding Being
    Pema Pera: as we have done from the beginning
    Pema Pera: with the drawback that then there is nothing to hold on to
    Pema Pera: no traction
    Pema Pera: not leaping-off point
    Pema Pera: no friendly hand-holding
    Pema Pera: so in addition to that empty center
    Pema Pera: we can have many mansions grouped around that center
    Pema Pera: many ways to approach Being in somewhat more specific ways
    Pema Pera: suggestive, not mandatory in any way -- not beliefs, not systems, just friendly pointers
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: all of us could have our own "mansion"
    Pema Pera: and what I've been suggesting about YSBS and ESBS would be part of the furniture of my "mansion" then
    Pema Pera: an addition to the empty core of PaB
    Pema Pera: and others could provide their additions
    Wol Euler: now that you say that, I do feel that the Seeing exercises are "full", "filling"
    Pema Pera: funny how seeing that option suddenly resolved a kind of tension I had been feeling for a few weeks
    Pema Pera: yes, indeed
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: complementary
    Pema Pera: too much "emptying" only is not balanced
    Pema Pera: we seem to need both
    Pema Pera: that's what I've been suggesting to Adams too, btw, various ways of "filling" :)
    Wol Euler: balance is all, I think; there must be a centre that can hold.
    Pema Pera: but it can be empty, if we have a strong enough group around it
    Wol Euler: yes, we balance each other around the circle :-)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Wol Euler: like a loaded tray on a waiter's fingertips
    Pema Pera: or a net to jump into from a burning building, held up by a group of firemen
    Wol Euler: ys
    Pema Pera admiring Wol's more gentle imagery :)

    Back to the Seeing explorations.

    Wol Euler: This is why I am more comfortable with the Seeing exercises, I think, my understanding of the world is very visual, based on analogies and metaphors
    Pema Pera: btw, my imagery of "mansions" came a few hours after the first RL meeting of a group of guardians -- five of us, in Berkeley, yesterday for dinner
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    Pema Pera: watching everyone being so different yet sharing so much
    Pema Pera: bonding in all diversity
    Pema Pera: in respect yet also in assertiveness
    Pema Pera: great mix
    Wol Euler: the world is big enough for us all; but i think some people are frightened by the size of hte world.
    Wol Euler: want to reduce it, simplify it, codify it.
    Pema Pera: yes, because their picture of themselves is way too small . . . .
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pema Pera: do you want to say something about your Seeing exercises?
    Pema Pera: how those went?

    But Seeing is temporarily put on hold when a new visitor drops by.

    Pema Pera: Hi Rory!
    Pema Pera: come join us if you like
    Wol Euler: Well, only peripherally. I realized today, over my cappuccino under the blue sky, that I do a lot of visualization at work, as a creative and organizing tool
    Wol Euler: hello Rory
    Rory Myoo: hello
    Pema Pera: please take a seat
    Wol Euler: I had offered to write a spec for the auto-recording project, as a first contribution, because it seemed very woolly to me
    Rory Myoo: hello Pema and wol
    Wol Euler: and started to work on it as I sat there. And was able to step back and see myself working
    Rory Myoo: sorry i have big problems with this new version
    Pema Pera: wonderful, Wol!
    Wol Euler: nd realized that I work by seeing: I started with the finished report, opened it and read it.
    Rory Myoo: it has become real slow
    Pema Pera: np, Rory
    Pema Pera: take your time
    Wol Euler: once I knew what was in the spec, I could write it.
    Rory Myoo: does yours works well?
    Pema Pera: btw, I love your quote, on your profile: L'expérience n'est rien qu'un autre mot pour d'écrire les bêtises que nous avons fait.

    meaning: Experience is just another word to describe the silly things (litt. nonsense) we've done.

    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: that fits very well what we are doing here!
    Wol Euler: Rory, it works well for me now that I have turned the graphics settings down.
    Rory Myoo: do you speak french?
    Pema Pera: un peu
    Pema Pera: je suis Holandais
    Pema Pera: Pays Bas
    Rory Myoo: a nederlands
    Pema Pera: ja!
    Wol Euler: it was very slow, and I was irritated by the sludgy, wobbly camera movement
    Rory Myoo: i understand dutch verry well
    Rory Myoo: but i can't whright it:))
    Pema Pera: werkelijk?
    Pema Pera: Ben je Belgisch misschien?
    Rory Myoo: ja werkelijk!
    Pema Pera: in preferences->graphics-quality and performance, Wol?
    Wol Euler: yes, reduced everything :-)
    Pema Pera: from high to mid perhaps?
    Wol Euler: from mid to low, actually.
    Rory Myoo: ja
    Pema Pera: okay, I'll try mid
    Wol Euler: I have a Mac Mini, it struggles mightily.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Wol Euler: the only time I can ever hear the fan, is when I'm in SL
    Pema Pera: fijn om eindelijk eens mijn eigen taal te kunnen spreken hier :)
    Wol Euler: yes, I have no trouble with that.
    Rory Myoo: i know a lot of people from nederland
    Wol Euler: Dutch is close enough to German that I understand much of it.
    Wol Euler: without being able to speak a word
    Rory Myoo: ich spreche auch deutsch:))

    I found another nice sentence in Rory's profile.

    Pema Pera: Rory, we can beat you here with with arguments, knowlege, wisdom and other stupid things.
    Wol Euler: lol
    Pema Pera: as you request on your profile
    Pema Pera: you've found the perfect place!
    Wol Euler: beatings four times a day, 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm (SL times)
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ is our blog --- lol, wol !
    Rory Myoo: about voice chat does it works?
    Pema Pera: do you mind if we include your SL name in our blog?
    Pema Pera: we use only text
    Rory Myoo: ok do it
    Pema Pera: thanks!
    Wol Euler: because we log the conversation, you see, and voice cannot be recorded.
    Pema Pera: and for many other reasons
    Wol Euler: well, it can, obviuosly, but getting that into text is just painfuil
    Pema Pera: friendly by not having different strands collide so much in text
    Pema Pera: allowing foreigners time to digest
    Wol Euler nods.
    Pema Pera: a more peaceful pace overall
    Pema Pera: and various other reasons
    Pema Pera: I've come to really like text
    Rory Myoo: i have to leave sorry
    Wol Euler: yes, me too.
    Pema Pera: take care, Rory!
    Wol Euler: and yes that too me too.
    Pema Pera: come back whenever you like
    Wol Euler: bye rory
    Rory Myoo: thanks bye
    Pema Pera: tot ziens!
    Wol Euler: tschüß!
    Pema Pera: so you were saying, about Seeing?

    Ah, yes, Seeing! But first yet another meander, this time through Japanese.

    Pema Pera envies Wol's ability to write ss like a beta . . . .
    Wol Euler: visualization as a tool, yes. I do it all the time, I realize.
    Wol Euler: well, I have a German keyboard :-)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: so far I've only mastered Japanese on my keyboard . . . .
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Pema Pera: there should be a way to activate German
    Wol Euler: in Kanji?
    Pema Pera: 漢字
    Pema Pera: yes
    Wol Euler: ok, now how did you type tht? how many keystrokes make those two characters?
    Pema Pera: I type "kanji"
    Pema Pera: and it gets converted
    Pema Pera: roman letter input
    Wol Euler: aaaah
    Pema Pera: あああああ
    Pema Pera: do you read Japanese?
    Wol Euler: ok, so you type roman-letter Japanese and it converts to symbolic?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: insofar as Japanese is symbolic -- lol
    Wol Euler shakes her head sadly. Not a whisper of it.
    Wol Euler: wrong word, but I can't find the right one. Idiogram?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: but I like symbolic!
    Pema Pera: Japanese culture is very suggestive
    Pema Pera: very much the "empty core" approach
    Wol Euler: it has always interested me, yes. LIke the emphasis on agreeement and consensus,
    Pema Pera: all our Play here is symbolic too, you could say
    Pema Pera: yes, indeed
    Wol Euler: and that you should not ask a question whose answer you do not already know, lest you force your host to insult you by saying "no"
    Pema Pera: collaboration and competition are mixed far more intimately than in our society
    Pema Pera: yes, those shades indeed -- but depending very much on the context
    Pema Pera: obviously you *can* ask questions to which you don't know the answer -- but not bluntly the way we do
    Pema Pera: my favorite one is entering a story and asking "do you sell X?"
    Pema Pera: where X could be any item
    Pema Pera: say, a particular pen
    Pema Pera: and if the store person does not have a pen they answer
    Pema Pera: ちょっと
    Pema Pera: chotto
    Pema Pera: meaning "a little bit"
    Pema Pera: can you guess why?
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    Wol Euler: well, perhaps because they have sometning similar?
    Pema Pera: no :)
    Wol Euler: or because they can direct you to a store that does?
    Pema Pera: it is an abbreviation for a much longer sentence
    Pema Pera: namely
    Pema Pera: "it is a little bit difficult to tell you in your face, but in fact we really do not carry that item you just asked for"
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    Pema Pera: and the customer responds to "a little bit"
    Wol Euler: a meta-apology
    Pema Pera: by saying"
    Pema Pera: "okay no problem" as if not really being interested in the item anyway
    Pema Pera: very harmonious
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: any communication works as well as in our case
    Pema Pera: as long as you know
    Pema Pera: :)
    Wol Euler: at least as well, I should think.
    Pema Pera: yes, in fact
    Wol Euler: we spend a lot of energy being angry at each other because of hte way in which things are said.
    Wol Euler: when the thing htat was said is in itself not necessarily offensive
    Pema Pera: yup

    Yay, Seeing at last!

    Pema Pera: may I return to Seeing? Have you tried the YSBS and/or ESBS?
    Wol Euler: mmmm, to be honest: sorta.
    Pema Pera: that's fine!
    Pema Pera: just suggestions :)
    Wol Euler: I am experiencing a certain amount of resistance.
    Pema Pera: ah, interesting!
    Wol Euler: but actually having "seen" myself today, I feel that I can start ti more seriously.
    Pema Pera: having "seen" yourself today?
    Wol Euler: realizing how I was using visualization as a working tool, to get started on the spec.
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Wol Euler: I visualized myself visualizing
    Pema Pera: what a nice way to use PaB through PaB tooling to do a PaB exploration :)
    Pema Pera: very PaBesque
    Wol Euler: yes, delightfully recursive.
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Pema Pera: how about doing YSBS right now, say half a minute You Seeing and half a minute Being Seeing, roughly?
    Wol Euler: ok, but I need a body break first :-) brb
    Pema Pera: fine!

    While Wol was off for a minutes, I took the time to summarize You Seeing Being Seeing, improvising as usual.

    Pema Pera: So the first half minute you become more aware of how you normally see the world, you in the center, with a cone-shaped field of vision in front of you ; in the second half you let Being see, whatever that may mean, not trying to steer it, not telling Being what to see (not helping God, as I told Adams :) -- and "seeing" for Being is obviously not literal, physical, Being doesn't have our kind of physical eye sight
    Wol Euler: back, and reading
    Pema Pera: so take your time!
    Pema Pera: more than 30 seconds perfectly fine too
    Pema Pera: later it naturally packs into 9 seconds or so, after some practice
    Pema Pera: or less than 9 seconds, quite possibly
    Wol Euler: I see two realities, one of them very flat; in both I see myself. I see an appalling mess with myself sitting in a small cleared space at its center. I see toys and distractions in the place I call my office, and note that even while "playing" in SL I am distracting myself from this distraction from working.
    Wol Euler: I note without seeing it, that this exercise makes my hearing and bodily senses very acute! I am aware of my posture, and that my shirt has come untucked at the back, there is a breeze accross my kidneeys.
    Pema Pera: (may I ask which part of what you wrote is in response to YS and to BS, or to both?)
    Wol Euler: so far only YS
    Pema Pera: k
    Pema Pera: very clear and recognizable, yes

    Another pause, while Wol was letting the BS exploration happen.

    Wol Euler: Being sees an island, and person who is actually comfortable on it. A person who is very hard on herself, highly judgemental, setting standards that she cannot achieve withiin the timeframe that she sets herself.
    Wol Euler: Being sees a pesron who is actually quite satisfied with herself and her life, but who will not say so.
    Wol Euler interjects, funny how Being has such a zoomed-out view.
    Pema Pera: (may I ask, how does she react by beeing seen so intimately by Being?)
    Wol Euler: Actually, it feels fine, it feels ... free.
    Wol Euler: it feels like a child being let out of hte house after a week of rain.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Wol Euler: Being sees the person surrounded by other people, their little bubbles touching and rubbing and sometimes blending.
    Wol Euler: (bubble as in island)
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: wonderful images
    Wol Euler is suddenly getting teary, in a happy way.
    Pema Pera: oohhh
    Wol Euler: the connection
    Pema Pera: melting is another way of subtracting . . . .
    Pema Pera: letting go . . . . .
    Wol Euler: mind you, I do get teary at the slightest provocation.
    Wol Euler: (covering her tracks)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: Being is the slightest -- and the largest :)

    Wise Wol words about moderation:

    Wol Euler: I could do this exercise. I won't set it as a task or a target, I will just keep it in mind as a possibility and let it happen now and then, as the moment arises.
    Pema Pera: perfect, that's a very good approach, I think
    Pema Pera: drink when thirsty
    Wol Euler: yes, but also avoiding giving myself yet another stick for my own back.
    Pema Pera: very important
    Wol Euler: If I say "ten times a week" and only do nine, I would be mad at myself.
    Pema Pera: haha, yes -- the whole point of PaB is NOT to give time overload
    Pema Pera: even ten times a day 9 sec is still the time needed to brush your teeth, not much more
    Wol Euler: sure, I spend far more time than that per day looking out the window.
    Pema Pera: also a great thing to do!
    Wol Euler: true, and it's the last thing I would give up to make room for PaB :-)
    Pema Pera: how about equal time? Half the time you let Being look, but not in a directional way, not out of the window
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    Pema Pera: but Being seeing all, inner and outer, every nook and cranny
    Pema Pera: the world outside and inside you
    Pema Pera: your deepest secrets and the furthest universe
    Wol Euler smiles. There's a marvellous line in a Nick Cave song: "I searched the seven seas and I looked under the carpet"
    Wol Euler: (quoting again)
    Pema Pera: didn't know that, wonderful!
    Pema Pera: and keep on quoting
    Wol Euler: I love the absurd, enormoous change of scale.

    Wol's carpet reminded me of another more lengthy quote.

    Pema Pera: let me quote too
    Pema Pera: Trungpa
    Pema Pera: Tibetan guy
    Pema Pera: very impressive and very wild
    Pema Pera: he talked about dzogchen, but it could have been about PaB
    Pema Pera: saying that -- I'm quoting quite freely now --
    Pema Pera: it is much more radical than pulling the rug out from under you
    Pema Pera: it is more like the sky falling on your head, like a big blue pancake
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: the rug leaves the rest of teh world as it is
    Pema Pera: only you topple over
    Wol Euler: true
    Pema Pera: PaB topples over the whole world
    Pema Pera: sky and all
    Pema Pera: (all triggered by your carpet quote :)
    Wol Euler: I wonder ... whether the experience of living literally on the to of the world, influences the Tibetan though process, that is an image that would come to somebody accustomed to standing on mountaintops
    Pema Pera: http://www.shambhala.org/teachings/view.php?id=77 is Trungpa's story
    Wol Euler: ty
    Pema Pera: yes, interesting point
    Wol Euler: where the only "ground" you see is below you, sometimes far below. "around" is sky.
    Wol Euler: I live in a valley, "sky" is a patchwork.
    Pema Pera: I grew up in Holland
    Pema Pera: love the sky
    Wol Euler nods

    I started reminiscing.

    Pema Pera: at some point I realized something, with a shock!
    Pema Pera: in all other countries people climb mountains
    Pema Pera: I felt envious, no mountains in Holland
    Pema Pera: but why do they climb mountains?
    Pema Pera: to look in all directions
    Pema Pera: we can do that in Holland from any place!
    Pema Pera: so no need to climb :)
    Wol Euler: indeed! the canadian equivalent is the southern Prairies of Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Stand on a telephone book and you can see 30 miles.
    Wol Euler: I love that, and miss it here.
    Pema Pera: or in the US New Mexico -- I feel very comfortable there!
    Pema Pera: beautiful sky
    Pema Pera: btw, the first mountains I saw in my life where upside down
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Pema Pera: at age 12
    Wol Euler: ??
    Pema Pera: when I got my first telescope and looked at the moon
    Wol Euler: aaaaah
    Pema Pera: hanging from the sky, literally
    Wol Euler: and that settled your fate!
    Pema Pera: I do seem to have a sky connection, yes
    Pema Pera: :)
    Wol Euler: or at least your occupation
    Pema Pera: only at age 14 did I see my first earthly mountains, in France
    Pema Pera: more than that
    Pema Pera: when I used my telescope
    Pema Pera: or tried to use
    Pema Pera: most of teh time the sky is clouded -- in Holland
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: with occasional breaks in the clouds
    Pema Pera: so most of teh time I was sitting there
    Pema Pera: at night
    Pema Pera: waiting a few minutes at a time
    Pema Pera: for another chance to see the star or planet I was looking at
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: a natural PaB type activity, come to think of it
    Pema Pera: funny
    Pema Pera: hadn't thought about that yet
    Pema Pera: amazing how your childhood primes you . . . .
    Wol Euler: that would definitely teach patience.
    Pema Pera: was very meditative
    Pema Pera: for a 12 year old, at least this one, not something I would have choosen myself
    Wol Euler: the opposite of TV's instant gratification.
    Pema Pera: was forced to by the clouds
    Pema Pera: yes
    Wol Euler: let me ask: How many hours of TV do you watch per month?
    Pema Pera: zero
    Wol Euler cackles. I knew it!
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Wol Euler: me too
    Pema Pera: seems to be true for at least half the people I meet here
    Wol Euler grins and nods

    I couldn't help quote a few Trungpanian lines.

    Pema Pera: btw, let me quote a few lines by Trungpa, to give you an idea, about the blue pancake piece
    Pema Pera: In some sense it is both a big joke and a big message. You cannot even run to your next-door neighbor saying, "I had a little pancake fall on my head. What can I do? I want to wash my hair." You have nowhere to go. It is a cosmic pancake that falls everywhere on the face of the earth. You cannot escape-that is the basic point. From that point of view, both the problem and the promise are cosmic.
    Wol Euler laughs! Brilliant. There is nowhere to go.
    Wol Euler: yes.
    Pema Pera: "Pancake as Being"
    Wol Euler: ah, our tower: the Stack of Pancakes of Being
    Pema Pera: AHAHAHA
    Pema Pera: The Pancake House!!!
    Wol Euler: yes!
    Pema Pera: The international house of pancakes
    Wol Euler: the fountain contains not water but maple syrup
    Pema Pera: http://data.gointranet.com/cgi-bin/unitloc/ihop/locator.cgi?cpage=main.html&cu=slee&cl=505
    Pema Pera: IHoP, celebrating 50 years . . . .
    Wol Euler laughs
    Wol Euler: mmmmm
    Wol Euler: I think what I miss most about North America is "road food"
    Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_House_of_Pancakes is better URL
    Wol Euler: bacon and eggs and strong coffee at 6am in a tiny town
    Pema Pera: haha, yes
    Wol Euler: with four hundred miles to go.
    Pema Pera: how about this name, for our new location:
    Pema Pera: "the Stack"
    Wol Euler: heheheh, good
    Pema Pera: well, maybe a good place to end for today?
    Wol Euler: yes, the time is going. I must do some work today.
    Pema Pera: realizing that I need to get a few more hours of sleep
    Pema Pera: wonderful conversation, thank you!
    Wol Euler: Thank you Pema, this has been very good, and enjoyable.
    Pema Pera: likewise
    Wol Euler: goodnight, sleep well.
    Pema Pera: du, mach's gut, Wol, sei wohl!
    Wol Euler: danke! Dir auch!
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