2008.08.06 19:00 - Who Knows?

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    That evening, when I (Pema) arrived in the pavilion, I find Adelene, Prosper, and Threedee already sitting in the circle around the central table.

    Threedee Shepherd: Good evening (here) Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi there, good evening!
    Prosper Telling: Namaste
    Pema Pera: Good seeing y'all, Prosper, Threedee, Adelene
    Threedee Shepherd: Pema, I havce an "object" I would like to share with the group, but I cannot rez here.
    Threedee Shepherd: That is, I can'tr "build"
    Adelene Dawner: 'lo Pema ^.^
    Pema Pera: ah, Threedee
    Pema Pera: just a moment

    I check our group membership.


    Pema Pera: no, you should be able to rez Threedee
    Pema Pera: you are a full member of playasbeinghere
    Pema Pera: as I thought
    Adelene Dawner: Try putting your group tag on?
    Pema Pera: you may have to
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: exactly :)
    Prosper Telling: That'ss do it.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Threedee Shepherd: Everyone is welcome to take a copy
    Pema Pera: nice, Threedee :)

    This is the text of the one-page notice that Threedee had just rezzed:

                Who Knows?

    Romanticist - I know in my heart
    Modernist - I know how to know
    Post-Modernist - Nothing is knowable
    Existentialist - There is nothing to know
    Skepticist - I might know
    Positivist - Of course I know
    Pragmatist - I know well enough
    Constructivist - The knower is part of the known
    Marxist - The people know
    Cognitivist - The brain is knowledge
    Eastern Religionist - You have always known
    Zen Buddhist - What is the sound of knowing?
    Western Religionist - Only God knows
    Modern Western Religionist - God knows, and he told me
    Will Rogers -- All I know is what I read in the papers

    Inspired by Threedee, I offer a few possible lines for PaB :).

    Pema Pera: you made those all up? Sounds like a long-running joke !
    Pema Pera: PaB -- Being knows
    Pema Pera: but that's the simple version
    Pema Pera: we can do better, I'm sure
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, I made this all up and formatted it.
    Pema Pera: PaB -- Who Knows?
    Pema Pera: is that better?
    Threedee Shepherd: It has been developed over a few years, partly related to my teaching.
    Pema Pera: PaB -- Knowing knows
    Pema Pera: Well, those are three, any other suggestions :-)
    Prosper Telling: Could you drop me a copy. Won;t let me take one for some reason
    Threedee Shepherd: Being is Knowing
    Adelene Dawner: Being knows through us
    Pema Pera: hi Sky!
    Sky Szimmer: hey Everyone!

    Sky drops in.

    Prosper Telling: In a sense I would agree but in the convential sense of understanding and putting things into words, I would lean to the view that Being is Reality-As-It beyond our thinking mind.
    Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps we can start a second list just for the PaB varients?
    Pema Pera: haha, might be a long list . . . .
    Pema Pera: Prosper, I think Adelene's suggestion is an interesting one
    Pema Pera: Being knowing through us
    Pema Pera: Being as such is beyond words
    Pema Pera: but words are part of All, of Being
    Prosper Telling: Yes, I agree
    Prosper Telling: It quickly gets to the point I need an aspirin in these matters.
    Threedee Shepherd: aspirin, or, 9-sec
    Pema Pera: :)
    Prosper Telling: Touche
    Adelene Dawner is, for the record, having a bad brain day. Pema has the concept, and she will be interested to see what others think of it, but will probably not be able to participate well.
    Prosper Telling: There is a quote, which I will mangle but here goes:
    Prosper Telling: Before I studied Buddhism mountains were mountains and streams and were streams. After I studied Buddhism a few years, mountains were n not mountains and streams were not streams, having reached enlightenment mountains are again mountains and streams are again streams.
    Prosper Telling: When Being knows through us there is no us, only Being.
    Pema Pera: yes, that's a nice one, strikingly correct too
    Pema Pera: and on the relative level, there may seem to be us, too, that seeming is part of Being too
    Pema Pera: Sky, how are things with you?

    Sky tells us about some troubles in RL, which she call `this dream' because we have been talking about how our daily reality in some sense is a kind of dream, with Being the projector -- a metaphor of course, and only partially correct. It would take a while before we realized that she did not talk about an actual dream, but about the dream metaphor instead.

    Sky Szimmer: ok. I have been all wrapped out in my relative reality and am troubled by this dream
    Sky Szimmer: my husband keeps telling me to enjoy the dream but I just can't
    Pema Pera: which dream?
    Sky Szimmer: so i am reminded of Cal's roller coaster. My husband is having a thrilling ride
    Prosper Telling: Can you tell us about the dream?
    Sky Szimmer: and I am totally freaked out and holding on with my white knuckles
    Sky Szimmer: the dream of my current reality.
    Pema Pera: AH!
    Pema Pera: not a dream in the usual sense?
    Threedee Shepherd: ahh, here is another poster/picture you might like, then
    Prosper Telling: Oh. that one :-)

    Threedee puts up a second poster, this time of what looks like a group of Tibetan monks having a great time riding a roller coster.

    Sky Szimmer: no. that'd be easy. I'd just fly away
    Pema Pera: but you are troubled by your real life, which you see as a dream?
    Pema Pera: (just trying to understand)
    Sky Szimmer: obviously not as I am troubled by RL but part of me realize Being in all this
    Sky Szimmer: I just keep telling myself, ah. this is just a dream....
    Adelene Dawner: I know that one, Sky. My answer is that there's a reason behind the dream... and finding out that reason is part of the reason. I could be wrong, but it's worked so far. ^.^
    Pema Pera: (still trying to understand, sorry Sky) -- so you experience RL as a roller coaster, and you would like to see it as a dream, but you have trouble doing so?
    Sky Szimmer: Sorry Pema! I always have a hard time making myself clear..
    Prosper Telling: Adelene, that's work for me too and oddly enough my Mom
    Sky Szimmer: We always talk about RL here as like a dream.
    Sky Szimmer: so that is why I refer my RL as a dream.
    Pema Pera: well, a dream is one of the metaphors, but only one . . .
    Pema Pera: I wouldn't take that too literally
    Prosper Telling: It may lack inherent existence but it still contains meaning
    Adelene Dawner nods at Prosper. "You can assume there's a point, or you can assume there's not a point... we can't know either way, but one works better than the other."
    Sky Szimmer: Part of me can see that I should just enjoy the ride, but then, it is hard to see it right now.
    Adelene Dawner: And yes, that's very LoR. I haven't figured it out in LoA terms yet.
    Sky Szimmer: LoA?
    Adelene Dawner looks at Pema... help?
    Pema Pera: Hi Avastu!
    Sky Szimmer: so I guess, part of PaB is to help us see and live better
    Sky Szimmer: hi Avastu!
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

    Avastu drops by, and I translate the acronyms that Adelene used, shorthands that I had introduced in a previous session.

    Pema Pera: Language of Absolute = LoA
    Threedee Shepherd: hi Avastu
    Pema Pera: Language of Relative = LoR
    Avastu Maruti: hello Threedee
    Sky Szimmer: I have been using Being as a resource as you suggested.
    Pema Pera: yes?
    Sky Szimmer: at first I didn't really understand what you meant Peam
    Sky Szimmer: Pema and yet maybe I still don't but in my mind, I have made it to work for me.
    Prosper Telling: I think part of living better is recognizing the impermenance of things, especially all the little things that annoy... what matters is Being. What abides in Being.
    Sky Szimmer: I see Being as the Here and Now. So, using Being as a resource is to really lean on the here and now and maximize the moment to turn things around
    Sky Szimmer: yes. I understand all this stuff Proper, but I don't truly see it, otherwise, why the heck am I still freaked out
    Prosper Telling: How big is the Here and Now? When does the There and Then become the here and now?
    Sky Szimmer: Here and now is just a point, tiny point, but then it is also the constant
    Threedee Shepherd: are you afraid you will "wake up" to something...
    Prosper Telling: I hope I am not coming across a antagonistisc. So much gets lost in translation in a medium such as this.
    Adelene Dawner: If all you have is Here and Now, *how* can you turn? You'll still be Here no matter what you do.
    Sky Szimmer: turn is just an idea
    Sky Szimmer: I guess, I can see all your points, and I can talk the talk
    Sky Szimmer: but then so what
    Prosper Telling: I find my Here and Now to be very, very big.
    Pema Pera: Hi Stargate!
    Sky Szimmer: hi Stargate.
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Star and Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Prosper Telling: Hi
    Stargate Tone: HI all
    Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: still rezzing
    stevenaia Michinaga: almost sat on Prosper

    Stargate and Steve join us, and so there are eight of us. I feel deeply moved by the various sincere attempts from fellow guardians reaching out to Sky, and so does Sky, as she later would say.

    Threedee Shepherd: Sky, I know what you mean by "talk the talk". I am finding that the 9-sec is developing the *walk* in ways I am just being/seeing, to my surprise
    Prosper Telling: Sky, maybe you just need to Be, or Sit or Chant... Don't think so hard, don't look for answer, just try Don
    Adelene Dawner: turn is push, turn is make waves, turn is fight Being. (And Adelene is sans grammar.)
    Prosper Telling: 't Know Mind.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Stargate
    Prosper Telling: Hi
    Prosper Telling: Someone almost sat on me? Yikes!
    Stargate Tone: Hello my friend stevanaia
    Stargate Tone: ....prosper is a caward :)****
    Stargate Tone: ...is he ?
    Stargate Tone: :)***
    Prosper Telling: caward? what is that?
    Sky Szimmer: the 9sec practice has helped me see. let me ask all of you, is your RL not scary at all?
    Stargate Tone: hmmm....You fix the spelling and maybe somebody knows ***
    Pema Pera: *, perhaps you can sit on the cushion to your left? You are sharing with Avastu :)
    Adelene Dawner: What others call scary, or something that I'm afraid of? Big difference.
    Prosper Telling: Very but so what. It is what it is. What matter is my response to it.
    Sky Szimmer: I could see that my RL will be fine at some point, and that when I look back I will laugh
    Threedee Shepherd: RL has built-in unpredictability, and hardship, and loss
    Sky Szimmer: of course. I guess it is my response to it that still needs to be learned
    Adelene Dawner: Why can't laugh-Now Be this-Now?
    Prosper Telling: From another point of view, I am almost assured a painful and possibly messy death in my life, somewhere very close to the end of it.
    Threedee Shepherd: A german proverb comes to mind that captures the dilemms: Too soon old, Too late smart!
    Prosper Telling: perfect
    Stargate Tone: stargate

    Saying this, Stargate leaves in an expanding clouds of big red hearts.

    Sky Szimmer: so all of you are enlightened or realized that there aren't moments where the puppet that is called self dominates
    Threedee Shepherd: Not enlightened. Self is part of it, like everything else, that is to be "known"
    Prosper Telling: Defintely not enlightened... but I am knocking off the dus here and there, trying to get an idea of what lies beneath
    Prosper Telling: and thankful for the Grace that's got me this far
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if all we seek, Being, enlightment, is already right here waiting to be revealed
    Pema Pera: sure it is :)
    Pema Pera: not even waiting :)
    Sky Szimmer: all my troubles are all part of Being
    Sky Szimmer: I know that
    Sky Szimmer: I just want to have more fun with it
    Sky Szimmer: the self wants to have more fun with it
    Sky Szimmer: but then that is just a concept
    stevenaia Michinaga: well, if you haven;t found it, it;s jsut a bit deeper than you've looked
    Sky Szimmer: there is nothing to be found
    Sky Szimmer: being is always here
    Sky Szimmer: being is all
    Threedee Shepherd: At this point I am not seeking enlightenment, rather I hope for Being along the Way
    Sky Szimmer: self is being
    Sky Szimmer: me being scared is just a thought and a fleeting thing
    Sky Szimmer: no permanence
    Pema Pera: do you want to say a bit more what you are scared about, Sky?
    Sky Szimmer: i get caught up in time
    Sky Szimmer: the future becomes real
    Sky Szimmer: of course, there is no "time"
    Pema Pera: just in ordinary terms -- without "absolute" considerations?
    Sky Szimmer: I see that.
    Pema Pera: we have to start where we are
    Pema Pera: in relative terms
    Pema Pera: can't deny that
    Pema Pera: and then we can look around and explore further
    Pema Pera: using ideas as guidance
    Pema Pera: but can't use the ideas as floating devices
    Pema Pera: that won't work
    Sky Szimmer: i can see that I am creating a run on story that is probably alot scarier than the reality
    Pema Pera: can you say more?
    Sky Szimmer: sure. it is the usual worries about the future
    Pema Pera: job?
    Sky Szimmer: we are very tight financially and I am worried about it
    Pema Pera: I would be too!
    Pema Pera: as a human being, in the role I am playing in this world, I would definitely be worried in such a situation

    And I mean that. It would be counterproductive to deny a human reaction like that, or to wish that reaction wouldn't be there. Only by accepting such a very reasonable reaction is it then possible to look through it, and to see Being in the heart of the problems that beings have.

    Sky Szimmer: of course, it will all be alright one way or another
    Sky Szimmer: i am just not having fun with it
    Pema Pera: it would be surprising if you would!
    Sky Szimmer: but then, someone like yourself would not be worried
    Prosper Telling: Sounds like the first two rules of learning Ancient Greek apply here as well: 1. Remember to breathe 2. Surpress panic
    Adelene Dawner: Would not be worried? What makes you say that?
    Pema Pera: No Sky, I would be worried, as I said above -- as a human being I would be . . . .
    Pema Pera: the question is whether worrying would lead to panic . . . .
    Pema Pera: or to putting all your energy in looking around and searching for solutions and/or exit strategies
    Sky Szimmer: not panic but fear anxiety, unhappiness
    Pema Pera: first thing is acceptence of a given situation, and yes, as Prosper said, breathe in that situation
    Adelene Dawner: Life involves some unhappiness. Removing that isn't any part of the goal. Nice side-effect, sometimes, but not the goal.
    Pema Pera: then see whether you can avoid total identification
    Prosper Telling: I think those are the things practices can deal with.
    Pema Pera: totall identification can be smothering, does not leave you room to breathe
    Prosper Telling: If you can fix a problem, no worrying is required, if you can't fix no worrying will help.

    So true! And when we find ourselves worrying nonetheless, we can keep that in mind, in a gentle attempt to accept our worrying and to see it in a wider light.

    Pema Pera: if you can "wear" your worrying lightly, like a shirt, not a skin, that will help -- you can even "wear" anxiety lightly
    Pema Pera: trying to jump right into the absolute may be a bit too extreme in your situation . . . . .
    Threedee Shepherd: Another saying captures part of the paradox: "Good decisions come from wisdom. Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from bad decisions."
    Sky Szimmer: yes. i see that. that is what i was referring to earlier about using being as a resource. putting all energy into figuring out a solution
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: Being can help you to wear lightly
    Pema Pera: will puff up your clothes a bit :)
    Sky Szimmer: nice saying threedee
    Adelene Dawner: 'wear lightly' helps you relax while Being brings the solution to you, mostly. ^.^
    Prego Zapatero: hello
    Sky Szimmer: thx adelene
    Pema Pera: Hi Prego!
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Prego Zapatero: can i joint ?
    Chrismiss Whybrow: hi
    Pema Pera: sure!
    Pema Pera: Hi Solo!
    Solobill Laville: Hi all!
    Sky Szimmer: i really appreciate all your thoughts and comments. I feel better already : )
    Pema Pera: I'm afraid I have to run
    Solobill Laville: Please have a seat Chrismiss
    Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Sky!
    Chrismiss Whybrow: i'm trying
    Pema Pera: Great seeing you all again!
    Pema Pera: Hi Chrismiss
    Threedee Shepherd: goodnight Pema
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Prosper Telling: thank you again
    Prego Zapatero: bye
    Solobill Laville: 'night, Pema
    Adelene Dawner: 'night Pem
    Pema Pera: Steve, if you stay for a while, can you send me the log?
    stevenaia Michinaga: sure
    Pema Pera: the rest of it (or all, whatever it easiest)?
    Pema Pera: and looking forward to meeting in RL next week!

    At this point I leave. The rest of the log was sent to me later by Stevenaia

    Chrismiss Whybrow: hi please allow me to introduce myself... solobill told me about your group
    Chrismiss Whybrow: it sounded interesting
    Chrismiss Whybrow: my name is chris
    Prosper Telling: welcome... I've bumped into you in a few places. I think your nose was bigger?
    Prego Zapatero: its this like a spirituality group ?
    Chrismiss Whybrow: yes prosper, i was modifying my nose
    stevenaia Michinaga: we record these sessions if you don't mind, and post them on a blog, is that ok?
    Chrismiss Whybrow: it was huge
    Chrismiss Whybrow: okay
    Prego Zapatero: sorry guys i am new here, its this like a private group ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not at all
    stevenaia Michinaga: it is open to everyone
    stevenaia Michinaga: do you mind if we post your comments Prego?
    stevenaia Michinaga: comments
    Prego Zapatero: not at all
    Prosper Telling: Nah, we're a rather open bunch
    Solobill Laville: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Information/Play_As_Being_in_a_Nutshell
    Prego Zapatero: just dont know wats the group about ...
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friends
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Solobill
    Threedee Shepherd: good bye
    Chrismiss Whybrow: bye bye
    Solobill Laville: Bye Avastu
    Prosper Telling: bye and Namaste
    stevenaia Michinaga: we meet 4 times a day
    Sky Szimmer: yes y'all again for reading me whine. got to run too
    Solobill Laville: Goodbye, Sky, best
    Prosper Telling: thank you for giving us the chance.
    Chrismiss Whybrow: it's over?
    Chrismiss Whybrow: the metting is over?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, we meet at 7:00 am and pm, and 1:00 am and pm
    Chrismiss Whybrow: oh darnit. i thought it was beginning.. that
    explains a few things
    Threedee Shepherd: night, Sky
    Chrismiss Whybrow: haha
    Prosper Telling: lol
    Solobill Laville: "Officially" only 30 minutes, but often much longer
    Prosper Telling: Wow, never seen one last under an hour
    Solobill Laville: (note the time now) ;)
    Chrismiss Whybrow: well i hope to join you again
    Chrismiss Whybrow: oh
    Chrismiss Whybrow: yeah.. late
    Chrismiss Whybrow: so you go by.. eastern time?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, please join us again
    Solobill Laville: No, Chris, SLT
    Chrismiss Whybrow: oh
    Prego Zapatero: wats the topyc of the group ?
    Chrismiss Whybrow: oh i see now
    Prosper Telling: Top right corner of your screen
    Solobill Laville: (or Pacific Time)
    stevenaia Michinaga: see clock in the upper left of your screen
    Chrismiss Whybrow: yes.
    Prosper Telling: That one :-)
    Chrismiss Whybrow: i understand
    Solobill Laville: In a nut shell Prego, it is a group that is
    interested in exploring what is reality, or Being
    Solobill Laville: and we share our experiences and thoughts
    Prego Zapatero: sound good
    Solobill Laville: non-denominational, and very supportive
    Chrismiss Whybrow: that is a nice feathery costume, adelene
    Chrismiss Whybrow: i like that
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Prego Zapatero: yes kool outfit
    Chrismiss Whybrow: :D
    Prego Zapatero: ok guy have agret time!!!
    Prosper Telling: I must run as well.
    Solobill Laville: Yes, it is late for me too
    stevenaia Michinaga: night
    Chrismiss Whybrow: can i sit here?
    Chrismiss Whybrow: goodnight
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Solobill Laville: sure!
    Solobill Laville: goodnight all
    Chrismiss Whybrow: i think i will like this group
    Threedee Shepherd: come again. we are here every day.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, read some of the blogs
    Chrismiss Whybrow: okay
    Chrismiss Whybrow: i don't know what to do now.. the meeting's over?
    Chrismiss Whybrow: bye
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