2008.08.12 07:00 - Still Raining, Still pushing

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    Today Riddle Sideways is the GOC and is adding the comments.

    There is an overpowering urge to not comment this log.  I appreciated the "..." separator comments the other day.  
    I do have a few innane comments that I will throw in.  Probably done because 'MY' "I" is having problems getting out of or in the way, as discussed in the second hour.

    [Actually, I am posting this raw now to get it done and will comment more later.  I have to RL travel for 2 days (spending a few hours near Berkely too, but now instead of last week)]

    Adams Rubble: OK
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Riddle :)
    Riddle Sideways: good morning everybody
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Introducing the rain.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I've rezzed rain here in the last session and it's unfortunately stuck.
    Riddle Sideways: I am having network problems so I hope I can stay with you
    Riddle Sideways: I really like the rain
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure Riddle
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm glad it doesn't bother you <sigh>
    Adams Rubble: Sorry to hear that; hopefully we will continue to enjoy your company
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Doug
    Riddle Sideways: I am really glad all of you are here
    Adams Rubble: Hello Corvuscorva
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello
    doug Sosa: hi, took me a while..
    Riddle Sideways: after all the email, and chatter
    Riddle Sideways: hi corvuscorva
    Adams Rubble: hello Avastu
    Adams Rubble: hello Maxine
    Riddle Sideways: this rain is a lot like the olympics
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Maxine Walden: hi, Adams, Avastu, Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: hi Avastu
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the rain is like the olympics?
    doug Sosa: feels good.
    Maxine Walden: oh, and Doug, Gayaand hello Corvuscorva
    Riddle Sideways: I have been watching Olympic Volleyball played inthe rain, that did not bother players.
    Maxine Walden: is this sheetes of rain?
    doug Sosa: hi.
    Maxine Walden: or is it my computer
    Adams Rubble: No it is rain :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I hear it to.
    Riddle Sideways: I don't mind the rain on my av
    Gaya Ethaniel: Apologies again. I made it rain in the last session and somehow it's stuck
    Riddle Sideways: I might feel like singing though
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Like Raindrops falling on my head Riddle?
    Maxine Walden: wow, nor I; oh, Gaya, its your creation; yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes maybe it's meant to be stuck for a while here...
    Maxine Walden: another way of Being?
    Riddle Sideways: corvuscorva, I don't think we have met are you new here
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have been here once before.
    Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you Coruscorva :)
    Riddle Sideways: ah, then you understand a little of Play as Being
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. A little. It is nice to meet you, as well, Adams
    Riddle Sideways: well, I would like to appoligize for all the times I keep getting peoples names wrong in the logs
    Riddle Sideways: I might be missing the 'remember names' gene
    Maxine Walden: I can have that trouble, Riddle, as well
    Adams Rubble: I do that at work, Riddle
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles...I do too.
    Riddle Sideways: It was just easiest to say 'Doug' did such and such each time
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    doug Sosa: hey i neve did anything... :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Maxine Walden: short, easy name to blame everything on?
    Riddle Sideways: thats what I appoligized for
    Riddle Sideways: you didn't do nothin
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Maxine Walden: ah, tha rain is slowing a bit
    doug Sosa: never!
    Gaya Ethaniel sometimes mix and match some people's first names and others' last names
    Maxine Walden: we get mixed up with each other in various ways perhaps
    doug Sosa: our pixels share the same screen..
    Riddle Sideways: many of you are meeting in RL too
    Riddle Sideways: so that might staighten some out
    Riddle Sideways: but, I could not get to the Berkeley meet up
    Maxine Walden: nor could I, sorry to have missed it, the Berkeley meeting
    Adams Rubble: Distances make it difficult for some
    Maxine Walden: indeed, Adams
    doug Sosa: You wouldnt have recognized any of us.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Riddle Sideways: what... you don't all look as beautiful as this ? :)
    Riddle Sideways: I sure don't
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: Not physcially but I expect we will or would feel very comfortable very soon
    doug Sosa: Is the way we look here a version of how we would like to look, or a disguise, or...?
    Maxine Walden: interesting question, Doug
    Maxine Walden: Imagine it varies
    doug Sosa: Yes, because of the conversations here we were inthat way the same at the berkeley dinner. Very easy, supportive and interested.
    Riddle Sideways: perhaps most of us create our wish version of ourselves
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. I choose things very unlike me, quite purposefully.
    Gaya Ethaniel doesn't look like or doesn't want to look like how she is now
    doug Sosa: I tried to get close but gave up when i couldn't get the skin color to darken up a bit. I am not THIS pale. But the change wouldn't take.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Gaya..green with wings?
    doug Sosa: Oh Gaya!, so beautiful.
    Gaya Ethaniel feels safe like this for now...
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks doug
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: safe?
    Gaya Ethaniel is unable to verbalise reasons for now
    Riddle Sideways: yes I imagine after a few minutes we would SEE each other
    Riddle Sideways: we practice SEEing so often
    Adams Rubble: I was very fortunate to be able to meet Pema yesterday and instantly recognized him
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Could you tell me what that means?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: SEEing?
    doug Sosa: Pema, by the hair.
    Does everybody know that RL Piet does not really have long dreadlocks?
    Riddle Sideways: the PaB play as being has morphed
    Adams Rubble: no Doug :)
    Riddle Sideways: to including YSBS
    Riddle Sideways: You Seeing, Being Seeing
    Riddle Sideways: and I am trying to practice that every 15 minutes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
    Riddle Sideways: so am stuck in seeing a lot
    Riddle Sideways: for some years I was playing down the Seeing aspect
    Riddle Sideways: well, seeing with phys eyes
    Riddle Sideways: then many others have gone on to ESBS
    Riddle Sideways: enlighted seeing, Being Seeing
    Riddle Sideways: there is a hard to get difference there
    Riddle Sideways: somewhere
    doug Sosa: Gone to? A place?
    Riddle Sideways: me? yes often
    Riddle Sideways: you?
    I confused myself.
    Adams Rubble: and Pema added a new one for me to work on GSBS
    Adams Rubble: God seeing, Being seeing
    Riddle Sideways: ah... that is interesting
    Adams Rubble: I think he intends for me to have God look within me
    Adams Rubble: and then being at appearances and continuum
    Maxine Walden: not sure I understand that last bit, Adams, 'being at appearances and continuum'
    doug Sosa: that "within" and "me" seems almost different from the no self approach..
    Adams Rubble: Answer Doug first...
    Adams Rubble: I am not ready for the "no self" approach so maybe that is why he recommended it to me
    Adams Rubble: I am having trouble understanding Being
    Adams Rubble: whcih brings us to maxine
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Adams Rubble: I am having trouble explaining Maxine because I don;t quite have it down
    Maxine Walden: ah,
    Avastu Maruti: May I?
    Adams Rubble: Yes, plase Avastu
    Adams Rubble: please
    Avastu Maruti: Seeing is instantaneous - all appearances register immediately ON SEEing
    Avastu Maruti: then the mind says "I AM seeing"
    Avastu Maruti: yet the mind/thoughts appear ON or IN that same SEEing
    Avastu Maruti: the seeing is prior to
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, finally understanding.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: thank ou.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you/
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Riddle Sideways: thank you
    Riddle Sideways: the seeing is the same
    Riddle Sideways: just what we do with it
    doug Sosa: !
    Gaya Ethaniel says that Seeing Being ‘sounds’ like listening with blown ear drums. No sounds, no sense of space or time… but unlike silence.
    Riddle Sideways: I think so too
    Maxine Walden: afraid I did not quite understand Gaya's comment
    Riddle Sideways: we sence without using the physical sences
    Gaya Ethaniel says that the experience is effable
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you. I must leave, but this has been interesting.
    Maxine Walden: beyond the physical senses
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Maxine Walden: nice to meet you Corvuscorva
    Gaya Ethaniel: ineffable*
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Nice to meet you as well.
    Riddle Sideways: yes, nice to meet you
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Adams Rubble: Bye
    Riddle Sideways: again the words used have so many meanings
    Maxine Walden: right, Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: that when we type see, hear, touch, etc
    Riddle Sideways: it can be with other senses
    Avastu Maruti: the meaning of all words can only ever be relative
    Avastu Maruti: to what are the words pointing to?
    Gaya Ethaniel sees cololurs, shapes or physical sensations as Being somtimes
    Riddle Sideways: yes (to both)
    Gaya Ethaniel: / though these are MY experiences pls note
    Riddle Sideways: avastu, we are so limited to having to use words to compare what we point at
    Avastu Maruti: don't ALL experiences, even the experience of the body-mind, no matter the content of experience or the impermanent "state", don't these all appear immediately to this SEEing, this pure experiencing prior TO words?
    Gaya Ethaniel says 'that'd be the case if the person Sees the seeing at the same time'
    Avastu Maruti: can you SEE the seeing? is it an objecT?
    Gaya Ethaniel sees seeing seeing seeing seeing seeing.... etc
    Maxine Walden: perhaps, Avastu, in a reflective state of mind; sometimes when we are feeling pressured we do not have that reflective potential
    Avastu Maruti: you ARE the seeing
    Adams Rubble: We may see the struggle to see
    Avastu Maruti: seeing/knowing is already effortless
    Gaya Ethaniel says that her heart is asking her to stop verbalise for now. Excuse my silence for a while even though you ask me questions directly.
    Avastu Maruti: do you require a struggle to register these words?
    Adams Rubble: no Avastu
    Avastu Maruti: you ARE the seeing, Being, being itself, Life living itself
    Riddle Sideways: this forced activity of verbalizing is mostly the stuggle part
    Adams Rubble: Yes, I see that Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: the seeing is pretty easy (most times :)
    Riddle Sideways: but the putting to words is a stuggle
    Riddle Sideways: yet I wish to compare my choose of words to yours
    Riddle Sideways: to hopefully see if we are SEEing the same
    Riddle Sideways: or not
    Adams Rubble: Yes
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes I see the colors, shapes
    Adams Rubble: and somedays I can say it better than others
    Riddle Sideways: yet sometimes there is seeing all
    Riddle Sideways: without edges, distinctioons
    Riddle Sideways: yes, somedays are better then others :)
    Riddle Sideways: at the root what we hear (might be) the one sound
    Gaya Ethaniel points to what Riddle said above 'that's how I sense sometimes... everything 'wiped out'' No one understood this phrase when I said last in PaB mtg
    Riddle Sideways: but what I hear today
    Riddle Sideways: is maybe ...
    Riddle Sideways: Gaya, there is that... that understanding thing
    Riddle Sideways: I so wish to have everybody understand what (I think) I understand
    Riddle Sideways: but...
    Riddle Sideways: is hard to do
    Riddle Sideways: threads go on
    Gaya Ethaniel feels that some members of PaB are able to speak in a same 'language' as her while others can't
    Maxine Walden: dear friends, I need to leave, have enjoyed our discussion as always
    Maxine Walden: bye for now
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Riddle Sideways: ok Maxine, bye
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Adams Rubble: bye Maxine
    Gaya Ethaniel feels that something she said affectedd Maxine
    Riddle Sideways: is nice for you to think that, but most time Maxine leaves just before the hour
    Gaya Ethaniel breathes sigh of relief 'thanks for pulling me back Riddle'
    Riddle Sideways: [trouble writing]
    Riddle Sideways: we look upon the same
    Riddle Sideways: yet bring different points of view
    Riddle Sideways: I really wish to KNOW your 3 points of view
    Riddle Sideways: but the words get in the way
    Gaya Ethaniel also wishes to know others' point of view so that she can feel the connection 'oneness'
    Adams Rubble thinks it is more than words but also metaphors that can be used differently
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks that her being an insect doesn't help either :P
    Riddle Sideways: most probably
    Riddle Sideways: to adams, not gaya
    Riddle Sideways: often by the time we type something
    Riddle Sideways: another line has jumped in
    Riddle Sideways: and my comment is misplaces :(
    Gaya Ethaniel: No problem Riddle. I feel ok to be part human now
    Avastu Maruti: In seeking Being, we miss the miracle of THIS, HERE - NOW. It is always a search for something more, something different.
    Gaya Ethaniel: How do you know 'we' all do that Avastu?
    Avastu Maruti: "We" is a general term
    Gaya Ethaniel: Only I know about what I do
    Gaya Ethaniel: Such generalisation can be an hinderance
    Avastu Maruti: a hinderance for who?
    Gaya Ethaniel: You could always use 'some people' or even 'you'
    Gaya Ethaniel: In sharing here
    Avastu Maruti: the expression comes as it comes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ah.. ok you are what you are. Fair enough. I accept that and thanks for the explanation about you
    Riddle Sideways: again these word/phrasing troubles
    Avastu Maruti: what "I" do is only a distinction made in mind - there is no separate "I" doing anything
    Avastu Maruti: except in concepts and assumpations
    Avastu Maruti: *assumptions
    Avastu Maruti: SEEing is happening
    Avastu Maruti: IN THAT, all the rest appears
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry Avastu, I haven't seen you talking much so far so need more time interacting with you in order to understand what you mean. I have 'time'
    Avastu Maruti: the meaning of the words is irrelevant - to what they are pointing to is the "point"
    Riddle Sideways: and Avastu (to unfornutely) talks at a level riddle (another unfornuate) wishes to get to, but is not yet
    Avastu Maruti: if they resonate, great - if not, discard them immediately and move on
    Gaya Ethaniel just let Avastu talks
    Riddle Sideways: ah, that resonate=keep and not=discard is probably best advice
    Avastu Maruti: Riddle - there is no "you" to get anywhere - you are ALREADY what you seek
    Riddle Sideways: easily said... hard to do
    Avastu Maruti: Being is already effortless, yes?
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Riddle Sideways: this "I" thing is mostly the problems
    Avastu Maruti: it's only a bundle of thought - coming and going IN you
    Avastu Maruti: IN SEEing
    Avastu Maruti: like clouds passing in the vast sky
    Avastu Maruti: a bundle of "stories"
    Riddle Sideways: there is an intelect that knows what you say is correct
    Riddle Sideways: there is a weak human that is unable to do it
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Avastu Maruti: there is nothing to "do", my friend
    Avastu Maruti: simply SEE that this "weak human" is only an appearance in SEEing
    Avastu Maruti: the seeing never is changed or affected
    Riddle Sideways: yes, the song remains the same
    Gaya Ethaniel: In order to interact here.. I have to wear the cloth of 'I' that does 'do'
    Avastu Maruti: of course
    Avastu Maruti: yet you see it as a mirage
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's right. I'm aware of it
    Avastu Maruti: yes!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think I begin to understand you and you me Avastu
    Riddle Sideways: loosening the grip on the "I" to be as a mirage = playing
    Avastu Maruti: a mirage "appears" to be water, yet it is only an illusion
    Avastu Maruti: once seen for what it is, we no longer seek to quench our thirst
    Avastu Maruti: even if it still "appears" to be water
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes hence my natural inability = reluctance to verbalise in PaB, quenching the thirst of seeking
    Avastu Maruti: yes - totally understand
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'it's a great feeling to connect to others like this Avastu'
    Gaya Ethaniel: You should talk more Avastu - a joke :P
    Pema Pera is Online
    Avastu Maruti: when we see that ALL appears IN this SEEing, then we cannot find any separation between a "you" and a "me" - this is true Love
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yesterday some of us were discussing, kindness, compassion and love (need to post this log)
    Gaya Ethaniel: How they are all part of a process
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think I understand why you said 'true Love' up there
    Avastu Maruti: Love or compassion as an "I" always holds the seed of selfishness - true Love or Compassion happens when there is no difference or separation between "us"
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Avastu Maruti: yet this isn't a "state" to be reached or attained - it is the natural state - it is already the case, once we see the "I" for what it truly is
    Riddle Sideways: there is such hard work to NOT do/work/I
    Gaya Ethaniel: I imagine myself as an insect flying into a fly zapper sometimes when I try to connect with someone. Some people think I'm being stupid doing so. It's just that I cannot help it... it feels right doing so. However, I am also aware of what I'm capable of and how other people are. This often prevents me rushing to the zapper.
    Riddle Sideways: hi Pema
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema
    Avastu Maruti: yes - the "I"-thought appears and is seen as false immediately, like a moth flying into a bonfire
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, Riddle, Avastu, Adams!
    Pema Pera: nice to meet you all in the rain here!
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Riddle Sideways: the "I" creeps into place so easily
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes especially if noises from others/situations are real loud and overwhelming
    Riddle Sideways: there is such a depth to not "I'
    Riddle Sideways: and a shallow in ME
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because I would be in the selfless state mostly with certain people and in certain situtaions and so often it's hard to listen to Being
    Riddle Sideways: sorry, Pema we are going on ahead of you
    Pema Pera: np!
    Pema Pera: Happy to listen
    Riddle Sideways: Avastu talks in the Being Seeing state that I have to strieve for
    Pema Pera: Avastu, that was so much fun, to read your dialogue with Fred, Thursday evening, http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/200...eteor-showers/
    Gaya Ethaniel apologises for silence for a while
    Pema Pera: It reminded me of that movie "Bambi meets Gozzila"
    Pema Pera: In the language of the relative (lor) he was Gozzila and you were Bambi
    Riddle Sideways: LOL
    Pema Pera: In the language of the absolute (loa) he was Bambi and you were Gozzila
    Riddle Sideways: love that short
    Avastu Maruti: Riddle - striving for it is what seemingly obscures
    Dakini Rhode is Offline
    Avastu Maruti: assuming there is somewhere else to go or something else to get
    Avastu Maruti: you are already THAT
    Avastu Maruti: reality must be HERE and NOW, whatever THAT is
    Avastu Maruti: THIS is it!
    Avastu Maruti: THIS is the miracle!
    Avastu Maruti: and THIS isn't "this or that"
    Avastu Maruti: YOU are the source
    Avastu Maruti: all happens IN you
    Riddle Sideways: agreed, yet hard
    Riddle Sideways: hard to do easiest
    Pema Pera: don't look away from yourselves, seemingly out of your awareness -- can't get out anyway
    Pema Pera: turn the lights around
    Avastu Maruti: yes - the mind says it's hard
    Pema Pera: look back to awareness itself
    Avastu Maruti: yes!
    Pema Pera: that's the easiest thing
    Pema Pera: so easy we call it hard
    Pema Pera: we can't imagine we can
    Pema Pera: we can't accept
    Pema Pera: so we call it hard
    Pema Pera: an excuse not to do it
    Pema Pera: drop that excuse, right now
    Riddle Sideways: very much agreed
    Adams Rubble: So it awareness that we are looking for within us
    Pema Pera: we are in it
    Pema Pera: and so is everything else
    Pema Pera: it is the canvas
    Pema Pera: the light of the projector
    Pema Pera: the space
    Pema Pera: all different images
    Pema Pera: what are you thinking in/with right now, not as a theory, but what do you KNOW / EXPERIENCE as what is thinking?
    Pema Pera: right now?
    Pema Pera: not tomorrow?
    Avastu Maruti: brilliant!
    Pema Pera just emulating Avastu :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Avastu Maruti: brb
    Pema Pera: really, Adams, what do you think with now?
    Pema Pera: right now
    Pema Pera: not later
    Dakini Rhode is Online
    Adams Rubble: my brain
    Pema Pera: are you sure?
    Riddle Sideways: no
    Pema Pera: is that a thought, a theory, or do you actually experience your brain thinking?
    Adams Rubble: I shouldn;t be sure?
    Pema Pera: so as an experience
    Pema Pera: what do you experience as thinking thoughts?
    Pema Pera: if you look at a painting, you see a situation -- but you can switch from the painting to the paint
    Adams Rubble: No I do not experience my brain thinking
    Pema Pera: and then from the paint to the canvas
    Pema Pera: and then from the canvas to the frame
    Pema Pera: and then from the frame to the space in which the frame is giving
    Pema Pera: and then to the awareness in which the space and all else is given
    Pema Pera: Avastu likes to give the bottom line
    Pema Pera: which is the clearlest
    Pema Pera: but as Avastu did the other day, we can use particular exercises
    Pema Pera: in smaller steps
    Pema Pera: like painting paint canvas light-in-which-canvas-is-given space awareness
    Pema Pera: no where do we find a brain in there
    Gaya Ethaniel wishes Pema to slow down typing
    Pema Pera: would be very messy to have some grey yellow gue in front of you!
    Gaya Ethaniel wishes Pema to type each line out with some space between them to pause/ponder on each
    Pema Pera: I'm happy to slow down, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks Pema
    Gaya Ethaniel says she has time to listen Pema
    Riddle Sideways: I will post this log and slowly read over all these lines
    Gaya Ethaniel: / then I don't need to be here Riddle
    Pema Pera: So Adams, if it is not your brain that you experience as experiencing thoughts -- what is it then?
    Adams Rubble often needs to go back over logs to get full message
    Gaya Ethaniel: / me too Adams
    Gaya Ethaniel: / however what is the point of me being here experiencing
    Gaya Ethaniel: / if all of us don't allow 'room' to breath
    Gaya Ethaniel: / while we interact
    Adams Rubble: I don;t have an answer for that Pema. I did try the exercise last night but I couldn;t focus on it
    Gaya Ethaniel: / i often read & re-read logs in average three times over 3-5 days
    Adams Rubble: I know I have thoughts
    Pema Pera: Where are they coming from or are embedded in?
    Adams Rubble: I assume that if one did a brain scan they would see flashing neurons or whatever scientists call them
    Pema Pera: (not a trick question, a simple direct question)
    Pema Pera: (not a philosophical or physiological question)
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Pema Pera: don't assume, tell me what you see/notice/feel/experience right now
    Adams Rubble: My thoughts are connected to my awareness or my seeing
    Pema Pera: connected?
    Pema Pera: how?
    Adams Rubble: I am looking at a computer screen thinking about your question
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: my thoughts come from those two things
    Pema Pera: can you try to "feel" your awareness, watching your awareness giving birth to your thoughts?
    Pema Pera: like an ocean letting ripples and waves appear on its surface?
    Adams Rubble: I find myself trying to look into my head and that is not being flippant
    Pema Pera: but your head is givin to you in awareness, isn't it? Not the other way around? I'm not asking theory or speculation -- I'm asking to describe how it appears to you, that's all
    Adams Rubble: I read your statement or question and then I think about it
    Pema Pera: the screen in front of you is given in your awareness -- but the screen is not in your head, the experienced screen, the ONLY one you will ever know is outside your experienced head, and both are given in awareness
    Adams Rubble: I translate it into my scope of understanding
    Pema Pera: why think about it, Adams, why not do it now?
    Pema Pera: what is stopping you?
    Avastu Maruti: Pardon - BSOD
    Adams Rubble: oh my
    Gaya Ethaniel: / wb Avastu
    Pema Pera: bsod?
    Avastu Maruti: blue screen of death
    Pema Pera: ah, microsoft! -- sorry, I'm a unix guy :)
    Pema Pera: we don't encounter those :-)
    Pema Pera: Sorry, Adams, don't mean to push you
    Pema Pera: just holding up a mirror
    Pema Pera: You are pushing yourself
    Adams Rubble: Can I claim a Microsoft brain?
    Pema Pera: you are not looking at your thoughts right now, but you are pushing the looking out into the future
    Riddle Sideways: oh no not that
    Pema Pera: a later time
    Gaya Ethaniel feels that Pema is pushing Adams
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: / not a laughing matter that
    Riddle Sideways thinks Pema is using Adams' nmae but is pushing me too
    Adams Rubble: It is OK Gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: / is not ok with me
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: I wonder why Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: / don't know. cannot verbalise sorry
    Adams Rubble: I have to think about that a bit Pema especially the future bit
    Pema Pera: May I quote a zen teacher, for a change? PaB is not zen, but there is a clear overlap.
    Riddle Sideways: seems so safe to put off until unknown future
    Pema Pera: yup
    Riddle Sideways: feels like pushing to have to face it now
    Pema Pera: but actually we are pushing things into the future
    Pema Pera: and we hate it if someone calls our bluff
    Pema Pera: we call them pushers
    Pema Pera: when they tell us to stop pushing
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Pema Pera: typical reaction
    Adams Rubble: Well I don;t know if I agree with that pema
    Pema Pera: people who have problem A always think others have that problem too
    Gaya Ethaniel: / you 'assume' Pema that you know Adams well enough to push now
    Adams Rubble: Sometimes I do need to think it over a bit
    Pema Pera: same with people with problem B, see others around them having that problem
    Gaya Ethaniel: / do you?
    Pema Pera: Gaya, I am not assuming anything
    Pema Pera: I let Being speak
    Pema Pera: I try to, as well as I can
    Pema Pera: I try to step aside
    Pema Pera: this is not Pema/Piet planning, manipulating
    Gaya Ethaniel: / is that really Being or your 'enlightened being' speaking?
    Pema Pera: Being is everything, the most inclusive
    Pema Pera: and as such all is Being speaking
    Pema Pera: but we tend to muddle it
    Pema Pera: obscure it
    Pema Pera: and the challenge is to step aside
    Gaya Ethaniel: / if I may say so Pema, I think so far you've been Pema or Piet spekaing here certainly not Being
    Pema Pera: and to learn more and more to let Being speak through more clearly
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: / you don't see Adams' needs to pause and think over
    Avastu Maruti: where does the distinction between Pema/Piet and Being happen?
    Avastu Maruti: only in mind/thoughts
    Gaya Ethaniel: / I just felt that Avastu that when Pema said Being is speaking through him, it just felt 'false'
    Avastu Maruti: the world cannot exist without relativity
    Gaya Ethaniel: / it is fine with me who is speaking here... but when I saw him 'pubshing' Adams, that's when I started to have problems
    Pema Pera: yes, you had problems
    Gaya Ethaniel: / no you do... your inability to recognise others' need Pema
    Pema Pera: did Adams have problems?
    Adams Rubble is capable of pushing back
    Gaya Ethaniel: / I don't see so much of distinction between me and Adams when I feel this way
    Adams Rubble: until her resistance breaks down and she sees :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: / true Adams I agree with your point. I'm just being honest here. Points I have been making above is relevant to why I or anyone should be here imo
    Riddle Sideways: is a valid technique
    Riddle Sideways: that is hard for gaya and i to witness
    Avastu Maruti: what IS resistance? only more thoughts/beliefs?
    Gaya Ethaniel: / i can easily see things tripping with that way of practising Adams.
    Gaya Ethaniel: / if you remember back the log Pema was talking about 'rescuing people'
    Avastu Maruti: IN or ON WHAT are these thoughts appearing?
    Gaya Ethaniel: / Threedee mentions that 'it's not the best time to teach people to swim when they are drowning'
    Riddle Sideways afk
    Adams Rubble is just tring to understand, to see by whatever means is available
    Gaya Ethaniel: / apologies, i need to take a break here
    Adams Rubble hopes she is not drowning
    Avastu Maruti: Seeing is already effortless
    Pema Pera: You are not drowning, Adams :)
    Avastu Maruti: no means are necessary
    Pema Pera: I could see that in your eyes yesterday, when we met in RL
    Adams Rubble: Not the way I do it, Avastu :)
    Pema Pera: so stop doing that, Adams
    Pema Pera: why not?
    Pema Pera: why not relax, sit back
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: and let God take care of you?
    Pema Pera: why do you keep wanting to steer God's airplane
    Pema Pera: even without a licence?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: now THAT is dangerous
    Pema Pera: we talk about danger
    Pema Pera: PaB is trying to make your life less dangerous
    Pema Pera: become a passenger
    Pema Pera: don't try to force-help God to run the world
    Pema Pera: don't try to safe others
    Adams Rubble: PaB is certainly making me much less angry
    Pema Pera: don't try to save even yourself
    Adams Rubble: and helping me se too
    Pema Pera: May I quote that zen master, for a switch?
    Adams Rubble: see
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Pema Pera: We don't know what will happen in any moment. So, in each moment, if you fail to express yourself fully you will regret it later. Because you expect some other time -- a future, a time in which you are more real -- you fail to express yourself fully right now. And of course in this way you will be misunderstood by your friends, even by yourself. So you should always express yourself fully.
    Pema Pera: Shunryuu Suzuki
    Pema Pera: zen master in San Francisco in the 1960s.
    Adams Rubble: I know of him :)
    Pema Pera: I am glad that Gaya expressed herself too, today.
    Pema Pera: We have a lot to talk about -- we can't solve all of our questions and difference in a few sessions -- but it's wonderful that we are on the way
    Pema Pera: I respect the way in which we are starting to be more honest toward each other!
    Gaya Ethaniel: / wasn't directed at you per se Pema or you only - pls understand that
    Pema Pera: oh, it is fine, Gaya
    Pema Pera: and you raised a very important point
    Pema Pera: about letting Being speak, and stepping aside
    Gaya Ethaniel: / we are in such a 'hurry' here. Where is the FIRE?
    Pema Pera: I am happy to say more about that -- either now or later
    Pema Pera: there is no hurry
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: thank you again for your email today, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: / pls continiue Pema
    Pema Pera: I don't know whether you saw my response?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I just read it thank you
    Gaya Ethaniel: It confirmed some of my uneasiness I felt whenever I was talking to you
    Gaya Ethaniel: I just couldn't put them into words
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm glad you could say those out in email to the group
    Pema Pera: yes, me too, and thank you for helping me to say those things
    Gaya Ethaniel: Whatever I can offer, I'm willing Pema to whomever wants it
    Pema Pera: thank you, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: And thank you too Pema. I'm lucky to be here
    Pema Pera: so are we all
    Pema Pera: if there is something like karma, I think most of us here have been pretty good in a previous life :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'cannot agree more'
    Pema Pera: well, I'll have to get up from where I am, in New York City, in a coffee shop, to go to a restaurant to meet Adelene
    Pema Pera: here in RL
    Pema Pera: it's a week of RL/SL encounters here!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hope you both enjoy the meeting
    Pema Pera: I'm sure we will :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day Pema
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: Bye Gaya, Riddle, Adams, Avastu -- delighted with the increasing openness here! Feels like a fresh scent after the rain!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera is Offline
    Riddle Sideways: back
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: but, good people I need to go too
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day Riddle. I must be off as well.
    Riddle Sideways: mundane things to do :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you all for the conversation. Good day.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Riddle Sideways: and thank you
    Riddle Sideways does not feel right leaving while you 2 nod off
    Avastu Maruti: not sure if Adams is still with us
    Riddle Sideways imagines myself awaking up alone
    Riddle Sideways: this rain is so pleasant
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    Riddle Sideways: in many ways, like the thoughts pema was on about
    Riddle Sideways: seeing the streaking rain
    Adams Rubble: Hi, I'm back
    Riddle Sideways: wb adams
    Adams Rubble: I had an interruption
    Adams Rubble: I have to go tend to a problem :)
    Riddle Sideways: so do I
    Riddle Sideways: have the good day
    Adams Rubble: Bye all. Good to see you all :)\
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Riddle Sideways: bye
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

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