2008.08.12 13:00 – Politics in the rain

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     This chat was recorded by Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

    I arrived early to give everything a chance to rez. For some reason it's raining but only in the PaB pavilion.

    I went to wash the dishes in real life. When I came back Avastu was sitting next to me.

    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Avastu. Sorry, I was away washing the dishes.
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: How are you?
    Avastu Maruti: well, and you?
    Quilty Bookmite: As well as can be expected.
    Wol drops in.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Wol.
    Quilty Bookmite: Anyone any idea why we seem to have this rather localised weather system?
    Wol Euler: hello Quilty, Avastu.
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Wol Euler: weather?
    Wol Euler: ah, the rain.
    Quilty Bookmite: It's raining.
    Wol Euler: hmm, Gaya has a rainmaker, perhaps she set it on and forgot it?
    Quilty Bookmite: Not that I'm complaining. It's a nice change. :-)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler: you#re looking very formal today, Quilty.
    I'm dressed in formal Victorian garb with a stovepipe hat.
    Quilty Bookmite: Steampunk. :) I've been up to New Babbage.
    Wol Euler: ah ;-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Again it makes a nice change from my usual jeans and t-shirt.
    Wol Euler admires. Lookin' good.
    in a private conversation Wol lets me know that my shoes are a little small for my feet and that my feet are sticking out the sides. Not a good look. Later on I stretch the shoes a little to fit.
    Quilty Bookmite: Apart from the shoes. :-)
    Wol Euler: lol
    Quilty Bookmite: The hat took some adjusting. Probably still needs a bit.
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm a bit of a fan of I K Brunel.
    My hero, Isembard Kingdom Brunel, one of the great engineers of the Victorian era, had a liking for stovepipe hats.
    Wol Euler: ah
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Tahuti.
    Wol Euler: I'm slightly surprised taht the hat doesn't smoke or project cannonballs or someting ...
    Tahuti arrives
    Tahuti Thor: hey hello
    Wol Euler: hi tahuti
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Tahuti Thor: hello everyone
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I think that would be more Moons area. :-)
    Wol Euler: lol
    Wol Euler: well much steampunk stuff does do that ...
    Wol Euler: steam and all, y'know.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I just wanted to go for the basic Victorian for now. :-)
    Tahuti Thor: is it snowing n here
    Wol Euler: rain actually :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm actually more a fan of Victorian engineering than steampunk.
    Tahuti Thor: o i c
    Wol Euler: Storm and Gaya have rainmakers, one of htem probably left it runninng here.
    Wol Euler admires Tahuti's robe. New? :-)
    Pia approaches
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pia.
    Tahuti Thor: yes
    Quilty Bookmite: Hasn't rezzed for me yet.
    Tahuti Thor: so u walk anywhere in zen area and its raining?
    Pia Iger: wow, raining hard outside.
    Wol Euler: I think it's localized, 20 metres or so IIRC.
    Quilty Bookmite: If you're not there is it really raining?
    Wol Euler: yes, it stops at the bridge.
    Wol Euler: hi Pia
    Tahuti Thor: hi Pia
    Pia Iger: and raining through the roof, too. Cool!
    Pia Iger: Hi, everyone:)
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone have a particular subject for today?
    Quilty Bookmite: Nearly said "tonight" but of course it isn;t for everyone.
    Tahuti had disappeared and reappeared. Probably a crash.
    Quilty Bookmite: WB Tahuti.
    Wol Euler is more in a sitting-and-listening mode today.
    Tahuti Thor: ty
    Pia Iger feel peaceful, too.
    Quilty Bookmite: Must be the rain.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: I like a change from the perpetual sunshine of SL.
    Quilty Bookmite: Can I ask a technical SL question?
    Wol Euler: If I had a sim I'd make it rain buckets every day, like in Rashomon.
    Wol Euler: sure :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: How do you express a feeling in chat rather than just talking, such as "Wol Euler smiles"?
    Wol Euler: ah! easy :-)
    Wol Euler: just start the line with "/me"
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah.
    So I give it a try...
    Quilty Bookmite gets it now.
    Wol Euler: like "/me nods"
    Wol Euler: right!
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks very much. :-)
    Wol Euler: it's a cheap trick but very effective
    Wol Euler grins
    Avastu Maruti is amazed!
    Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. I've been searching the help text trying to find out how to do it. :-)
    Wol Euler giggles
    Quilty Bookmite wants to know if his hat is on fire
    Pia Iger: simple trick, very expressive tool.
    Avastu Maruti wants to set it on fire
    Avastu seems to have a strong desire to commit arson on my hat and tries several times.
    Wol Euler tosses a book of matches to Avastu
    Quilty Bookmite: Feel free. I'm sure the rain will put it out. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite catches matches on their way
    Wol Euler: awwww
    I take the hat off for now to remove temptation. Underneath I am completely bald because for some reason I can't wear this hat and my hair at the same time.
    Quilty Bookmite: There. No more hat. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Now I need to put my hair on.
    Quilty Bookmite: Better, except my head is getting wet now. :-)
    Wol Euler: warm it at the flames
    In front of me is a small fire.
    Quilty Bookmite: Where did the fire come from?
    Avastu Maruti grins
    Tahuti has what seems to be a serious question. Makes a change from my ramblings.
    Tahuti Thor: anyone came to conclusion that our thoughts and feelings are unreal or maybe more appropriate to say unsubstantial ?
    I put my hat next to the fire.
    Quilty Bookmite: There. That'll dry it out. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Was this a previous chat? I don;t think I was at that one.
    Tahuti Thor: no i dont think so
    Pia Iger: Tahuti, I discovered that unrealness recently, too.
    Tahuti Thor: to Quilty Bookmite as an Observer, feelings are feelings and thoughts are thoughts
    Pia Iger: but I can't say all thoughts and feels are unsubstantial.
    Wol Euler smiles a welcome to Gaya.
    Tahuti Thor: explain
    Quilty Bookmite: Insubstantial sounds quite obvious. They have no form so of course they are insubstantial.
    I'm probably being a bit pedantic here about the word "insubstantial" which means having no substance, in other words no physical form. I'm curious to know what is really meant here.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Gaya.
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Pia Iger: Hi, Gaya
    Wol Euler: Are they less substantial than my perception of "reality" is?
    Pia Iger: not just because they don't have form
    Wol Euler: I percieve both.
    Tahuti Thor: hi Gaya
    I try and get a definition.
    Quilty Bookmite: What is the difference between having no form and being insubstantial?
    Pia Iger: 'Insubstantial" is in sense of less consequential than we thought, or illusional; as Avastu would say, it is dream-like, unreal
    Tahuti Thor: what i mean is not to be taken seriously
    Quilty Bookmite: Thoughts are just a series of neurons firing in the brain. From that perspective they aren't real.
    Pia Iger realize much of my own thoughts and feelings are 'made-up", 'make believe'
    And Tahuti comes up with a completely different question.
    Tahuti Thor: my real question is from here.........what to say about politics?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Quilty Bookmite made them up Pia. :-)
    Wol Euler: my reading your words is neurons firing in my brain.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
    Tahuti Thor: can and do spirituality and politics mix ?
    Pia Iger: or 'Insubstantial" in the sense they are not grounded in reality.
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm not sure what that means.
    So I wonder if Tahuti is trying to divert us from his original question.
    Quilty Bookmite: Tahuti, you would rather change the subject?
    Tahuti Thor: ?
    Isen arrives.
    Isen Enzo: whew
    Wol Euler: hello Isen
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Isen
    Tahuti Thor: we all agreed that thoughts and feelings are dream-like
    Avastu Maruti: hello again, my friend
    Pia Iger: politics is included in the whole picutre, IMO.
    Tahuti Thor: hi Isen
    Isen Enzo: rainy here...
    Tahuti Thor: from there, what to say about politics
    Pia Iger: Hi, Isen
    Quilty Bookmite: Politics can't be dismissed lightly. It impacts peoples lives in very real ways.
    Tahuti Thor: people have religious views, political views, etc....how serious to take our own views?
    Tahuti Thor: after all, views are thoughts and feelings
    Quilty Bookmite: On the other hand to have a view Quilty Bookmite need to participate in a bit of duality. :-)
    Isen Enzo: It's always a pleasure to give others the benifit of my opinion...
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Wol Euler: :-P
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pleasure is all mine in fact Isen when I hear your opinions
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah! no worshipping :P
    Isen Enzo: politics is hard.
    Isen Enzo: are hard?
    Pia Iger: is.
    Isen Enzo: thanks
    Isen Enzo: Quilty Bookmite said it!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Isen Enzo: I am a has-been small town politician!
    Isen Enzo: yes.
    Tahuti Thor: are all spiritual people humanists ?
    Quilty Bookmite: Now I'm going to have to look up humanist. :-)
    Isen Enzo: in a Bodhisattva way, I suppose....
    Isen Enzo: although, really it includes all sentient beings- not just humans...
    Wol Euler doubts that _all_ of any category ever belong to any other category.
    Isen Enzo: I think it really involves everything in the entire web of life..
    Isen Enzo: rocks..
    Isen Enzo: gas..
    Isen Enzo: the works
    I have been running up my browser to look up Wikipedias definition of Humanism. It takes a while with SL eating most of the memory but Isen seems impressed anyway.
    Quilty Bookmite: Wikipedia: Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly rationality.
    Tahuti Thor: so, we have to encompass the entire web of life before we rationalize n this duality
    Isen Enzo: quick referencing!
    Tahuti Thor: ?
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm not sure all spiritual people would believe that.
    Quilty Bookmite: Personally I would. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't think it fits with "original sin".
    Isen Enzo: omg
    Isen Enzo: omb
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: huh what's omb Isen?
    Quilty Bookmite: Oh my bod?
    Isen Enzo: oh
    Isen Enzo: my
    Isen Enzo: buddha
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I knew it
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow... so funny
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: bod was a character on a childrens program in the UK. I thought that's who you were referring to. :-)
    Isen Enzo: I like that..
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Isen. That was my first real laugh today
    Wol Euler: hello Solo
    Isen Enzo: Yo Solo!
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Solobill Laville: Hello, all
    Pia Iger: Isn't it hard to speak for 'all spiritual people'? It would be more sense to speak on our own personal level.
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Solobill
    Tahuti Thor: hi Solo
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it can be hard Pia
    Pia Iger: hi, Solo
    Tahuti Thor: true @ Pia
    Isen Enzo: I don't regard myself as a "spiritual" person...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I have to focus on 'reading behind words' they speak so real-time conversation can be difficult for me
    Isen Enzo: trying more to be "practical" person...
    Quilty Bookmite: I gues I read spiritual as religious. :-)
    Tahuti Thor: my guess is in spiritual life u on your own .......as to your liberation....regardless of what happens in the world and all its madness
    Gaya Ethaniel: I don't have that difficult with all 'spiritual' or 'religious' people thou
    Gaya Ethaniel: all depends...
    Tahuti Thor: and whereever your location happens to be
    Isen Enzo: I only thing of "religious" as in - "she practices it religiously"....
    Isen Enzo: Heavy definitions here..
    Solobill Laville: uh oh, raining...
    Isen Enzo: reaching my load limit..
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Tahuti Thor: this of course is an interpretation that defines spirituality as freedom of the mind/soul.......and not necessarily politically freedom
    Gaya Ethaniel: Apologies for the rain. It's been stuck since this morning
    Wol Euler: aha! I thought it might be yours.
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, at least your fish is happy. :-)
    Gaya has a fish swimming round her enjoying the rain.
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks Quilty
    Solobill Laville: Just out of curiousity Tahuti, where does that interpretation come from? :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Actually I like the rain. Nice change from all this sunshine.
    Solobill Laville: Or is that more of a paraphrase?
    Tahuti Thor: my own thoughts
    Quilty Bookmite: And as a Brit it feels like home. :-)
    Solobill Laville: OK, thanks!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'are you really from UK Quilty !'
    Tahuti Thor: was askin earlier does spirituality and politics mix
    Isen Enzo: It's really hard to mix..
    Gaya Ethaniel feels at home with rain too
    Wol Euler: mu. IMHO
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes Gaya.
    Pia Iger: what do you mean mix? I don't think they are totally separated.
    Isen Enzo: yes.
    Quilty Bookmite: What about the monks in Burma? They certainly seem to get involved in politics.
    Tahuti Thor: u can politic but dont get attached?
    Isen Enzo: maybe
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's a hard juggling act imo... take Dalai Lama
    Quilty Bookmite: But it seems to me that what they are doing is getting involved in human life.
    Isen Enzo: lots of false friends and real enemies in politics..
    Gaya Ethaniel thoughts monks are humans?
    Wol Euler: a nice phrase, isen.
    Isen Enzo: strue
    Isen Enzo: tough neighborhood!
    Quilty Bookmite: I mean that sometimes politics gets so intense that it needs intervention.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tahuti Thor: true
    Isen Enzo: lots of base interests in politics..
    Isen Enzo: not enough higher interests..
    Isen Enzo: less loft.
    Isen Enzo: mostly money
    Isen Enzo: and power.
    Isen Enzo: maybe samesame
    Quilty Bookmite: That sounds like a political viewpoint Isen. :-)
    Isen Enzo: yup
    Quilty Bookmite: So it's almost unavoidable. :-)
    Isen Enzo: money and power?
    Quilty Bookmite: Politics
    Isen Enzo: yes
    Isen Enzo: Politics everywhere- even monastic settings...
    Wol Euler smiles
    Pia Iger: in family tool
    Pia Iger: too.
    Delani Gabardini is Offline
    Quilty Bookmite: I have a new manager at work. One of the first things he said to the group was that he doesn't do politics.
    Isen Enzo: hm
    Quilty Bookmite: Meaning office politics of course.
    Isen Enzo: where's our referenceairian?
    Isen Enzo: "politics"
    Wol Euler: and in nature, if politics = power. Each wolf pack has its alpha dog, each dairy herd has its lead cow
    Quilty Bookmite: one sec...
    Quilty Bookmite: Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions.
    Isen Enzo: ahh..
    Quilty Bookmite: "The term is generally applied to behavior within civil governments, but politics has been observed in all human group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions."
    Isen Enzo: this is great..
    Isen Enzo: having a referencearian...
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Solobill Laville: Politics is a bit more that just = power, though...
    Pia Iger: that is a broad definition
    Quilty Bookmite: Anyone can use Wikipedia. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I think the power comment was more of a comment on the nature of politics than a definition.
    Tahuti Thor: like Aristotle said (or someone else) man is a political animal......but........the real question is what motive and purpose do u have underlying your decisions, actions and commitments
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry Isen, you said it. I could be misinterpreting.
    Isen Enzo: yes, but money and power are a strong component of government politics..
    Tahuti Thor: everyone is a political animal to some degree
    Isen Enzo: yes.
    Solobill Laville: yes and yes
    Isen Enzo: as we are social..
    Solobill Laville: and another yes for good measure
    Quilty Bookmite: It's part of normal human social interaction.
    Isen Enzo: it follows that we try to organize..
    Isen Enzo: some try to organize for harmony, others for gain..
    Isen Enzo: base gain.
    Tahuti Thor: right
    Tahuti Thor: and that is where the problem begins
    Quilty Bookmite: And those that organise for base gain tend to float to the top?
    Isen Enzo: Ashoka tried to organize for more lofty gain-
    Quilty Bookmite: We have a few "honest" politicians in this country but I have to say they seem to be a dying breed.
    Solobill Laville: yes, but I'm sure Ahoka played politics too, to get things done
    Solobill Laville: *s
    Isen Enzo: It's a group thingie..
    Isen Enzo: and how it is organized..
    Isen Enzo: here (US) its like 'crips' and 'bloods'...
    Solobill Laville: Perhaps we should define "thingie" ;)
    Isen Enzo: polarization is codified
    Isen Enzo: majority/minority
    Quilty Bookmite: Don't understand "crips" and "bloods".
    Matheus KaizenGames: seu bando de troxa
    Tahuti Thor: the group thang is the problem
    Isen Enzo: gotta choose..
    Tahuti Thor: attachment to groups
    Isen Enzo: the group organization thang is the problem..
    Wol Euler: urban gangs, quilty. blood feuds
    Isen Enzo: so many try to game a system..
    Wol Euler: hello metheus
    Quilty Bookmite: I see.
    Wol Euler: *matheus, sorry
    Isen Enzo: be true to their school..
    Isen Enzo: show the colors.
    Delani Gabardini is Offline
    Quilty Bookmite: It seems that if you want to rise to the top you need to keep a lot of people happy. That means letting go of any principals you may have.
    Tahuti Thor: its ok to join a group temporarily to get somethin done......but u dont attach yourself forever to that group
    Delani Gabardini is Online
    Isen Enzo: and gangs discourage outside activity/action/thoughts..
    Tahuti Thor: u get in and get out
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... I don't make such advance decision at each moment... because mostly I don't know how things will pan out Tahuti
    I glance across and two participants are wearing oriental style wide hats. Very effective for keeping the rain off. I put my stovepipe hat back on.
    Quilty Bookmite is joining the hat gang
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Solobill Laville: oops, just took mine off, looked a bit too much like the mean Kung Fu wanderer-type
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs
    Again Avastu wants to set fire to my hat.
    Avastu Maruti gave Quilty Bookmite Flame.
    Pia Iger: so what is motive behind the gang/group, or power play?
    Tahuti Thor: some join gang for protection in community
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks Avastu. I'll burn my hat later. :-)
    Pia Iger: isn't it fear sort of?
    Wol Euler: yes, the leaders have a very differnt motivation to the "grunts".
    Tahuti Thor: yes, fear
    Wol Euler: brb, sorry
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Wol
    Quilty Bookmite: Most people don't want the burden of making decisions for themselves.
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe they don't trust themselves.
    Tahuti Thor: peer pressure, family has gang history, etc.
    Quilty Bookmite: Also, they want to fit in and not be an outsider.
    Pia Iger: sounds like a lot of attachments...
    Quilty Bookmite: That's humanity for you. :-)
    Avastu departs and soon so do most of us.
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friends
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Avastu
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodbye Avastu.
    Wol Euler: bye avastu
    Gaya Ethaniel: Solo leaving?
    Solobill Laville: Yes, bye all!
    Pia Iger will join next time. bye for now.
    Wol Euler: bye solo, take care.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye.
    Quilty Bookmite: I suppose I should call it a night.
    Quilty Bookmite: I need to go and dry out.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Same here
    Tahuti Thor: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tahuti Thor: have a nice day :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight quilty
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Isen nice to see Quilty Bookmite again. Good day
    Wol Euler: bye tahuti, bye sleeping isen
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

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