2008.08.15 13:00 - The Miracle Chocolate Disco Now

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    Solobill was guardian.  The comments, and dancing, are his.

    I arrived about two minutes early, but not early enough to the be the first.

    Solobill Laville: Hello, Avastu
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Wol strolled up a moment later.
    Wol Euler: good evening, gentlepersons.
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Solobill Laville: Hey, Wol
    Solobill Laville: (If you don't own land in SL, are you actually a gentleman/woman?)
    Solobill Laville: hmmm.
    Wol Euler: well, in the historical sense of "gentile" perhaps not.
    Solobill Laville: yes, yes
    Wol Euler: however given that we no longer consider holding land to be a requirement for participating in democracy, perhaps we can let that go too?
    Solobill Laville: True
    Solobill Laville: Alas, I am now a squatter ;)
    Wol Euler: oh?
    Solobill Laville: hehe, yes, I sold my land and not just squat on PaB land...
    Solobill Laville: I should probably grow some crops or something...for rent...
    Solobill Laville: ;)
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Wol Euler: sharecropping?
    Solobill Laville: Anyway, did anyone have a topic they wanted to bring up?
    Solobill Laville: yes, sharecropping
    Solobill Laville: :0
    Solobill Laville: I was thinking about time yesterday
    Solobill Laville: while driving
    Wol Euler: I'm talked out, actualy, I came to listen and be invigorated.
    Solobill Laville: Well, I don't know about the invigorated part...
    Solobill Laville: But you can surely listen!

    Adams joined us.

    Wol Euler: hello adams
    Solobill Laville: Hello, Adams!
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Adams Rubble: Hello everybody :)
    Adams Rubble: I can't stay long but wanted to touch base
    Solobill Laville: Excellent
    Solobill Laville: we're just getting going, did you have anything in particular you wanted to mention Adams?
    Solobill Laville: Or bring up, whatever
    I should mention here, I had sent out a note to Adams and the "Hall decorating commitee" regarding getting the Hall looking a bit more comfortable earlier in the day.  That was what Adams thought we had been discussing.
    Adams Rubble: I have two things
    Solobill Laville: great!
    Adams Rubble: One the seats with the arms in the air
    Adams Rubble: The other is it might be a good idea to use something to break up the space
    Adams Rubble: I see you have screens
    Solobill Laville: Ah, yes, the Hall!
    Adams Rubble: :) I thought that was what you meant
    Solobill Laville: We have I think 6 screens
    Solobill Laville: Sure!
    Solobill Laville: I set my stuff to group, so if you wanted you could move them where you think they'd work
    Solobill Laville: seats with arms in the air?
    Adams Rubble: The meditation mats, we all sit with our arms raised. It looks uncomfortable :)
    Solobill Laville: Agreed
    Adams Rubble: I see you have mats there too
    Solobill Laville: And i think we also need to see who's typing
    Wol Euler nods. agreed
    Solobill Laville: I think we should set a meeting time and all meet there to make it happen, or whoever can show up, what do you and Avastu think? (are you in the decorating group, Wol?)
    Wol Euler: no, I'm lousy at SL building.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: I doubt that
    Wol Euler: that is kind of you :-)
    Solobill Laville: It's more like interior decorating, Wol
    Adams Rubble: What do you think of the idea of meditation mats on one sides and chairs of the other side of the hall?
    Solobill Laville: i like the ideas of chairs a lot
    Adams Rubble: and yes, I think a meeting would be a good idea rather than each of us going and moving things around
    Solobill Laville: OK, do you want to set a time and post it to the Google Group?
    Adams Rubble: giggle. hmm
    Adams Rubble: You said you were going away?
    Solobill Laville: yes, Sunday - Sunday next week, don't really know about accessing the interwebs...
    Solobill Laville wonders why he is floating...
    Adams Rubble: I was thinking that before or after a guardian meeting might be good but that is difficult with your schedule
    Adams Rubble: I am not sure what our plans are yet for this weekend unfortunately
    Solobill Laville: Today would work, if I leave at 1:30...
    Wol Euler: / brb
    Adams Rubble: I can't make it then. I can be back on around 4 SLT today, maybe a bit earlier
    Solobill Laville: hmmmm...I may be out then, but no worries
    Adams Rubble: We can see who's on. How does that work for you Avastu?
    Avastu Maruti: sounds perfect
    Adams Rubble: We just missed Storm
    Solobill Laville: Ah
    Adams Rubble: Threedee is the other member
    Solobill Laville: OK, I can post a note to the Google Group and say you'll be meeting in the Hall at 4:00
    Adams Rubble: OK, thanks Bill
    Solobill Laville: :)

    Now that we had that covered I was thinking of you, my dear readers, and covering some content less "house cleaning".

    Solobill Laville: Back to time?
    Wol Euler: sorry, but Ishall have to drop out for a while, I hope to return before hte end of the session.
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Wol
    Wol Euler: bye for now
    Adams Rubble: bye Wol
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Solobill Laville: My thought, which I've dwelt a bit on before, was this
    Solobill Laville: Without time, nothing happens
    Solobill Laville: If nothing happens, anyway, [absolute]
    Solobill Laville: What is time?
    Solobill Laville: It seems qualitatively different than that which the 5 skandas perceive, or cake constructs about
    Solobill Laville: Does this make sense?
    Adams Rubble: Your last statement lost me
    Adams Rubble: or were you talking to Avastu?
    Solobill Laville: No, to both of you
    Solobill Laville: Sorry, Adams
    Solobill Laville: the skandas thing is a bit of Buddha babble
    Solobill Laville: Just basically, how we sense and perceive things, our bodies and mind
    Adams Rubble: As I proceed I am becoming less sure of time

    Yes, Adams, and I agree.  This was kind of where I was thinking the topic of time might go.  Time as a subject, to my brain, is a perfect nugget to illustrate the relative/absolute comundrum.

    Adams Rubble: I am a "historian" so that is not easy for me to say
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Adams Rubble: But I know past is in our memories
    Adams Rubble: We live in the present
    Solobill Laville: Well, in the language of relative time must be, of course
    Solobill Laville: otherwise nothing would happen

    Here I was waiting for Avastu to join in.

    Solobill Laville wonders how Avastu can hold his tongue on that comment
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Adams Rubble: You have to ask Avastu a direct question :)
    Adams Rubble: Right Avastu?
    Solobill Laville sighs and smiles
    Avastu Maruti: not necessarily, my friend
    Solobill Laville: I am quite certain, in the absolute, there is no time
    Solobill Laville: but that is based on intellectual faith (in the relative)
    Solobill Laville: oh, the trap of talking about this stuff ;)
    Avastu Maruti: you speak of the absolute as some "place" you have to go, to find
    Avastu Maruti: and in that "place", there is no time
    Solobill Laville: yes, I agree with that
    Avastu Maruti: you are swimming in the Absolute, like a fish looking for water
    Solobill Laville: I wonder if there is a correlation in deep meditation, when time disappears from being a "thing",
    Solobill Laville: that it seems to slip by so much more quickly
    Avastu Maruti: we must simply investigate this "thing" called time
    Solobill Laville: Yes, and that has been quite an interesting and challenging investigation for me!
    Avastu Maruti: when does anything ever happen?
    Solobill Laville: There! That's what I was thinking you'd say Avastu!
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Solobill Laville: And I do agree with where you are going with that
    Avastu Maruti: so "time" is merely a concept, a noticing of the obviousness of change
    Solobill Laville: And the investigation of that, is part of my path, and my lifelong experience with Reality
    Solobill Laville: But there can be no change without time, correct?
    Solobill Laville: What changes?
    Avastu Maruti: time happens as a concept within THIS
    Avastu Maruti: you can never get out of NOW, no matter how much imagination
    Adams Rubble: Having a hard time leaving. Unfortunately I must go for now; bye Avastu and Bill :)
    Solobill Laville: Ah, so it just another part of the illusion
    Avastu Maruti: and NOW is more like a "container" than a "moment"
    Solobill Laville: Take care, Adams
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

    I had a sudden image come to my mind of time and this specific existence of "me".

    Solobill Laville: If I see myself, as this mind/body, as a single expression or vehicle or Being
    Solobill Laville: And time as a thread that is being pulled through me,
    Solobill Laville: but "me" is constant, in an ever-present now
    Solobill Laville: things still change, "I" get older, trees drop their leaves
    Avastu Maruti: the suggestion is to discard these conceptual imaginings and see direct reality
    Avastu Maruti: all "things" are only a conceptual distinction of one totality
    Solobill Laville: Yes, and I do appreciate that approach, and it is actually part of my practice
    Avastu Maruti: and that totality IS impermanence
    Avastu Maruti: and THAT changing appearance appears against a changless, formless background
    Avastu Maruti: the "ME" is part of the appearance, an observation
    Avastu Maruti: your true essence is the unchanging "screen" or ground of awareness, IN WHICH it all appears
    Solobill Laville: So, then, in your opinion, is the purpose of the whole she-bang to present "beings" the opportunity to become aware of Being?

    I was thinking here of Maslow a bit, and in the hierarchy of needs a "need" for self-actualization was quite an insight.  (There is also a quote that the purpose of humans is allow the universe to become aware of itself.)

    Avastu Maruti: purpose is only given in concept
    Avastu Maruti: we are not talking about opinion, we are talking about the direct perception of reality
    Avastu Maruti: yet it seems we must boil away our concepts to get there
    Solobill Laville: Indeed we do
    Avastu Maruti: so whatever happens, whatever it IS, is a totality of appearance
    Avastu Maruti: it doesn't matter what the content is
    Avastu Maruti: content is only given in mind
    Solobill Laville: But I'll tell you, between you and me Avastu, the fact that anything IS at all is an unfathomable miracle to me
    Avastu Maruti: yes!
    Solobill Laville smiles
    Avastu Maruti: simply SEE for yourself that this activity of "knowing" is happening
    Avastu Maruti: it's like a light that is always on
    Avastu Maruti: illuminating ALL appearances
    Avastu Maruti: and that body-mind mechanism appears IN THAT
    Avastu Maruti: you are already beyond, prior TO, witnessing it
    Avastu Maruti: you are ALREADY what you seek
    Avastu Maruti: yet seeking it seemingly obscures it
    Avastu Maruti: it's a desire for something better, something "more"
    Avastu Maruti: THIS is IT! Whatever THIS happens to be!
    Avastu Maruti: yet you remain prior to, knowing it
    Avastu Maruti: never touched
    Avastu Maruti: never changing
    Avastu Maruti: the "me" that can suffer is only an appearance IN this
    Avastu Maruti: the false "self-center"
    Avastu Maruti: the world can only exist in relativity
    Avastu Maruti: and relativity requires a reference point
    Avastu Maruti: yet that reference point is simply for appearance
    This reminded me of a wonderful analogy Roshi Suzuki made when he visited Yosemite.
    Solobill Laville: Are you familiar with the waterfall analogy?
    Avastu Maruti: no, my friend
    Solobill Laville: I'll paraphrase, if you'd like
    Avastu Maruti: sure
    Solobill Laville: All is the river, rolling along
    Solobill Laville: then, a waterfall
    Solobill Laville: a tall long one
    Solobill Laville: where the water separates into tiny beads and drops and mist
    Solobill Laville: that is this existence, each of us, separatem but in essense the same and one
    Solobill Laville: At the bottom of the fall
    Solobill Laville: The water joins again, all is the river, rolling along
    Solobill Laville: It's nice, but then there's that issue with time again...(for me)
    Avastu Maruti: very nice
    Avastu Maruti: yes, time can only be a question for a "me"
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Avastu Maruti: who else could it apply to?
    Avastu Maruti: time is a recognition of the obviousness of change, impermanence
    Avastu Maruti: yet it assumes that there is some "when" else than THIS
    Solobill Laville: yep
    Avastu Maruti: THIS HERE NOW
    Avastu Maruti: time appears in the "world", in the appearance
    Avastu Maruti: let that take care of itself - you are already beyond
    Solobill Laville: That's is why I try to in fact, let it take care of itself
    Avastu Maruti: Who tries?

    That did it.  ;)

    Solobill Laville: Avastu, pretty soon I'm gonna make my avatar dance then sit down next to you smiling!
    Avastu Maruti gave you Chocolate Disco2.
    Solobill Laville: Chocolate Disco ♪
    Avastu Maruti: Chocolate Disco ♪
    Solobill Laville: Chocolate Disco ♪
    We danced, I smiled.
    Solobill Laville smiles
    Avastu Maruti: When we recognize, not conceptualize, but really SEE that we are THAT, Oneness - all is a celebration
    Avastu Maruti: a miracle
    Solobill Laville: I'd like to be able to nurture that into my all day everyday life!
    Solobill Laville: Work in progress...
    Avastu Maruti: the "one" who wants to nurture IS itself the obstacle
    Avastu Maruti: simply investigate the possibility that the "person" you've taken yourself to be is a fiction, an assumption
    Avastu Maruti: see if it has any reality, outside of concepts
    Solobill Laville: I'm quite sure of that (an assumption)
    Solobill Laville: But I still need to put on my pants in the morning and head to work
    Avastu Maruti: the gap between conviction and "not quite sure" holds the entire world
    Avastu Maruti: Who does these things? Aren't they going on anyway?
    Solobill Laville: Let me dwell on that thought for a while :)
    Solobill Laville: Until next time!
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
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