2008.08.19 07:00 - Fractal Holographic Love

I (Riddle) was the GOC (Guardian on Call) this morning and has provided the comments.

I got there a little early having had some foreboding about network bandwidth.  My foreboding was just a little misplaced.  It was my graphics settings, SL mouse controls vs delays and my lack of coffee.

Riddle Sideways: good morning everybody
Adelene Dawner is a very small 'everybody', but good morning. ;)
Riddle Sideways: I did not mean to refer to phys size :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.
Adelene Dawner: ^.^

doug Sosa: hi,
Riddle Sideways: brb, settings troubles and vertigo
doug Sosa: yes, take it slow.
doug Sosa: brb /
doug Sosa: brb?
Riddle Sideways: ok, that was odd
doug Sosa: seemed fine from here.
Fael Illyar: Hi Riddle, Doug, Adelene :)
doug Sosa: hi fael.
Faenik: could be
Adelene Dawner: 'morning
Riddle Sideways: Hi Fael, Fealnik
Riddle Sideways: sorry... Faenik
Riddle Sideways: I am bad with names
Riddle Sideways: BTW - there is some problem with Faenik's chat in the logs
Riddle Sideways: I always enjoy the comments
Riddle Sideways: but, they are in a funny font or mime type
Riddle Sideways: when posted to wiki
Fael Illyar: different font? strange, I haven't noticed
Riddle Sideways: maybe just my browsers

Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
Dakini Rhode is Offline
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adelene Dawner: 'lo Gaya :)
Riddle Sideways: morning Gaya
doug Sosa: :)
Riddle Sideways: ok, I think the coffee and current settings are working now
Riddle Sideways: I enjoyed the sunday guardian meeting so much
Fael Illyar: Hi Corvuscorva :)
Riddle Sideways: then I went and read a lot of chat logs
Fael Illyar: Yes, the guardian meeting was quite nice :)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Fael!
Faenik: ????^^
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Riddle.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello, Gaya!
Riddle Sideways: hi Coruscorva
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello, Doug and Adelene.
Riddle Sideways: oh dear, I am trying to read my notes
Riddle Sideways: and can't
Riddle Sideways: :)
doug Sosa: :0
Fael Illyar: ok, that's quite some fear then :)
doug Sosa: oops, :)
Riddle Sideways: Maxine commented in an email yesterday how blessed she was to reread
Riddle Sideways: chat logs as she edited them
Riddle Sideways: I also feel that blessing
Gaya Ethaniel: brb tummy rumbles... need to eat something
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

Tomo Yuitza bows politely to all
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello, Tomo.
Riddle Sideways: Doug, I noticed several times that you should speak up
Riddle Sideways: hi Tomo
Tomo Yuitza: hello all
doug Sosa: I am having trouble with my chat posting
Fael Illyar: Hi Tomo :)
Riddle Sideways: you have asked really good questions that have been lost
Riddle Sideways: in threads
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel nods
doug Sosa: posting here now, some don't send.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I sometimes have that problem when my wireless connection is weak.
Riddle Sideways: I am having trouble tooo
Fael Illyar: I have had that kind of trouble but it's quite rare.
doug Sosa: it is wonderful. makes me feel like the kid in the back row..
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
doug Sosa: lots to be gained fromthat perspective.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Riddle Sideways: Tomo, not sure whether we have met before
Riddle Sideways: have you come to PaB before?
Fael Illyar: Tomo has been to a few meetings already :)
Riddle Sideways: ok
doug Sosa: Tomo tends to be as quiet as I should be.
Gaya Ethaniel has had pleasure hearing Tomo here before

Riddle Sideways: There was a dicussion the other day
Tomo Yuitza reawakens
Tomo Yuitza: sorry, i was nowhere
Riddle Sideways: about Fractal vs Holographic
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Riddle Sideways: :)
Riddle Sideways: when my little 15 minute gong went off
Fael Illyar: Yes, both having the intrinsic feature of having all of their structure everywhere within them :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs as the number of fishies grows.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Riddle Sideways: and I started writing reflections
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Riddle Sideways: this SL environ is just like Fractals
Riddle Sideways: in that it uses
Riddle Sideways: prims
Riddle Sideways: everywhere down the display chain
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It does?
Riddle Sideways: yet, when it appears on my CRT display tube
Riddle Sideways: it is like light through a holographic film
doug Sosa: yes, and it makes me nervous because life is more organic. fractals are mechanical reproductions..
Tomo Yuitza: fractals are in nature too
doug Sosa: yes but.. not so much in our experience, which we are trying to explore.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh?
Fael Illyar: are you sure of that?
doug Sosa: no.
Riddle Sideways is not sure what you are saying
Fael Illyar: Being could be compared to a fractal in that every part is complete Being.
doug Sosa: fractals and holography feel like aliens in a conversation that tries to explore experience, the 9 sec, the nature of awareness, being.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: like a good analogy where analogies are not wanted?
doug Sosa: Yes, but fractals are indeed exact replicas, only scale is different.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: actually, not exact replicas
Corvuscorva Nightfire: experientally same but not actually the same.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: so that as one looks down the chain it seems there are exact copies on every level.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but detailed analysis...there are not.
Fael Illyar: Hi Avastu :)
doug Sosa: why?

Riddle Sideways: good morning Avastu
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmm. I don't know.
Faenik: could be
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just that it is so.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Fractals are a product of chaotic math.
Riddle Sideways: in my reviewing many many 9 sec notes
Riddle Sideways: I find that most fall into
Riddle Sideways: a fractal or holo pile
Riddle Sideways: if I were to sort them into in-boxes :)
Fael Illyar: what goes into each?
Riddle Sideways: many are about how all the parts are the same
Riddle Sideways: many are about a point of view presented
Corvuscorva Nightfire: is part of what is attempted here, that we avoid analogies? or are analogies important to communication of ideas?
doug Sosa: analogies are explorations. always invited and appreciated.
doug Sosa: then comes an exploration ofwhat they tell us, or don't.
Riddle Sideways: yes, sorry Corvu that got skipped back there
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. "but fractals seem wrong for the discussion?"
Riddle Sideways: metaphors are welcome too :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Fael's analogy seemed very right on to me...
Riddle Sideways: what feels wrong?
doug Sosa: for me personally, fractals have an ora of being cool tech language. I find it very abstract and away from experience. Personal feeling.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. I grew to love them looking at coastlines, crystals, snowflakes.
Gaya Ethaniel feels cold when heard the word 'fractals'
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and I am fond of math.
Riddle Sideways: ah. again that question of
Fael Illyar: it's a word from the language of math
Riddle Sideways: is there some subjects not to be chatted here?

[Comment, bias, beware]  I feel any and everything should be valid subjects, conditions, language, etc. in these sessions.  There are so many differing points of view, understanding, training, outlooks, etc.that all speakers words, tone and feelings should be considered.
Nobody should have the feeling that analogy, examples, referrences, metaphors, etc. are unwelcome.
Problems occur when there a differing desires to explore an avenue.  Above and below we have some people who don't think this is a topic to discuss here and some people that do want it discussed.  More attention should be paid to why it is felt to be so (on both sides).

Faenik loves wells!
Gaya Ethaniel: Fractals... don't quite 'cover' Being... if that makes sense
doug Sosa: not at all, but then we explore thier contribution. Math is a very special labguage.
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'yes it is'
Fael Illyar: of course not, just serve to highlight something :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls say more Fael?
Fael Illyar: Like, when you say every stone is Being.
Fael Illyar: if you take an identifiable looking part of a fractal and call it 'stone', you can say every 'stone' has the complete fractal.
doug Sosa: bye, on to day.. :)
Riddle Sideways: Doug poofed
Riddle Sideways: with Being being All
Riddle Sideways: any small thing is a fractional part
Fael Illyar: so it's a relatively simple example that can be understood by anyone who knows what fractals are.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think I feel strongly that Fractal's are part of how I analyze, structure my understanding of the world.
Riddle Sideways: as in scientic methods and exploration
Faenik: ????^^
Riddle Sideways: we usually study
Riddle Sideways: small parts to grasp the large
Riddle Sideways: perhaps
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks of the danger of grasping an elephants tail.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Riddle Sideways: if the multitude of scientist studying
Riddle Sideways: the elephant
Fael Illyar: Yes, the elephant's tail could be thinking :)
Riddle Sideways: compare the parts
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Riddle Sideways: from many parts of the world
Riddle Sideways: they convene
Riddle Sideways: in small chat room of SL
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Riddle Sideways: and speak of the toe nails I have seen :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think there are two kinds of studying parts.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: There are recursive parts like fractals...and non recursive like elephants.
Gaya Ethaniel listens
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the fun thing is figuring out the difference.
Riddle Sideways: ah yes, that is the fun part
Gaya Ethaniel: It can drive one mad too
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Fael Illyar: is there, really? Wouldn't the non recursive ones turn out to be recursive if you go deep enough?
Riddle Sideways: each time we contemplate that everything is made of atoms
Gaya Ethaniel: yes and no Fael
Riddle Sideways: the atoms that I call me
Riddle Sideways: go away and new ones come in
Faenik loves wells!
Riddle Sideways: but I am still the elephant
Riddle Sideways needs to lose weight :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles..
Gaya Ethaniel: Too much cheese Riddle? <smile>
Riddle Sideways: exactly :)

Gaya Ethaniel pushes aside pieces of Manchego

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think it's true..there are recursive bits to everything...if you look close enough...but it is still important to experience the elephantness of the elephant?
Gaya Ethaniel: at the same time
Corvuscorva Nightfire: holograph and fractal?
Riddle Sideways: it is tough to do, but seems worth it
Gaya Ethaniel: no... just 'Being'
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Gaya.
Riddle Sideways: to see the atoms and the metastructure
Gaya Ethaniel smiles with joy.
Riddle Sideways: how beautiful those little fractals/atoms pile together
Riddle Sideways: to look like coast lines or elephants
Faenik: ????^^
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at that.
Riddle Sideways: how beautiful the image the holograph presents
Riddle Sideways: tho it be made of atoms
Corvuscorva Nightfire nodsnods.
Riddle Sideways: the light passes through just right
Riddle Sideways: when both perspectives are held in mind at the same time
Riddle Sideways: besides the "madness"
Riddle Sideways: what is there
Riddle Sideways: a point of view on Being?
Gaya Ethaniel: There was a point when it all converged for me... 'feeling' the Being and it was because I fell in love with Being
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
Faenik loves wells!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think alot about the ways of knowing...love and reason being two.
Gaya Ethaniel tends not to reason if possible unless at PaB
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Riddle Sideways: Love being so meta
Corvuscorva Nightfire tends to reason aaaalllll the time...keeps demons at bay.
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Gaya Ethaniel then ponders...
Riddle Sideways: Love joins the holographic pile
Fael Illyar raises an eyebrow 'Demons?'
Corvuscorva Nightfire blushes...suddenly feeling seen.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Riddle Sideways: is ok to use whatever words
Riddle Sideways: on one shoulder a guide on the other a demon
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It is a gingerly process looking at being.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: one must step close to awful stuff.

Fael Illyar looks at Faenik with wrinkles on her forehead ...
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Riddle Sideways: sometimes only seen out of corner of the eye
Gaya Ethaniel nods at Corvi
Gaya Ethaniel: with care Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: We've got time
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah..not today. I will listen with intellectualizing ears and mind today.
Gaya Ethaniel: I meant Corvi... we all have time... there's no hurry
Riddle Sideways: so many techniques
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It is a good reminder.
Riddle Sideways: so many paths
Faenik: ????^^
Gaya Ethaniel nods at Corvi 'I almost burnt out so.... <smile>'
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles warmly at Gaya.
Gaya Ethaniel nods at Riddle 'yes it's good to 'play''
Riddle Sideways: yes, play with whichever toy you want to today
Corvuscorva Nightfire: YES!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Riddle Sideways: put that one down and try another

Gaya Ethaniel recommends Corvi to watch Peter Greenaway, The Pillow Book & The Cook the Thief His Wife & Her Lover when she has some free time and quiet moments
Riddle Sideways: btw - the twilight off the jellyfish is so beautiful
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins..."mmmmm....best filmmaker ever."
Gaya Ethaniel: oh you know... cool
Gaya Ethaniel: Did you find the two films relevant to you?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: "the tempest is my favorite movie."
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'yes I can see that'
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: those films..I will need to re watch.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes reading/watching same works occasionally offer different Insights at each time.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: It can show... many things
Corvuscorva Nightfire: story.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: another way of learning.
Gaya Ethaniel: people - another way of learning
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yep.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

Faenik: indeed?
Gaya Ethaniel: Think so Faenik...
Riddle Sideways enjoys the quiet
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps Faenik*
Faenik grows horns and grins evilly.
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire delights in Faenik's antics.
Gaya Ethaniel is still laughing
Gaya Ethaniel: Must leave... sudden urge to sing
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for the conversation. Good day.
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Riddle Sideways: singing is allowed here
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Good to see you, GAya!
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Gaya Ethaniel smiles at Riddle
Riddle Sideways: but, I must go too
Riddle Sideways: will leave av here
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: please continue
Faenik notes that we just lost two of the most talkative people.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire watches Fael
Corvuscorva Nightfire: s fish