2008.08.19 13:00 - Gluecksdrachen

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    The Guardian for today's session was Genesis Zhangsun below are her comments.

    I entered saw Wol and then crashed I returned to find Wol and Adelene as a beautiful color changing water dragon....

    Wol Euler: wb again, Gen.
    Adelene Dawner: I'm actually 'being' someone else today - this av is not 'me', but 'Pema' - I've been working on a color-change script to match the pattern I see in him. ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: Hiya Gen
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    genesis Zhangsun: crashed again
    genesis Zhangsun: hey Adelene!
    Adelene Dawner: 'lo Gen!
    Wol Euler: oh, yes, that's right, you mentioned that you saw him like taht.
    genesis Zhangsun: wow what is this look
    genesis Zhangsun: I think I know
    genesis Zhangsun: do I know?
    Adelene Dawner: I did just say it ^.^
    genesis Zhangsun: are u a water dragon?
    Wol Euler: marvellous av in any case.
    Adelene Dawner is Pema, right now, av-wise. ^.
    genesis Zhangsun: oops sorry I missed that I was still rezzing
    Adelene Dawner: (friggin' shapeshifter ^.^)
    genesis Zhangsun: I agree I think he is a shape shifter too
    genesis Zhangsun: really wonderful these insights you have into people as creatures
    Adelene Dawner: I can't say much - I identify with Crow, but there's more than a little Phoenix in me, and that's a form of shapeshifting, too - and a much more dramatic one at that.
    Wol Euler nods
    Adelene Dawner: Did I mention what I saw of you, Gen?

    Adelene often identifies people with animals upon meeting them or soon after.  I had the pleasure to meet Adelene in NYC the previous week.

    genesis Zhangsun: oh my please tell me!
    Adelene Dawner: Well, I haven't gotten it pinned down yet. But you're definitely pretty firmly aquatic - fish, dolphin, whale, starfish, something like that.
    Wol Euler: ooh
    genesis Zhangsun: something water based
    genesis Zhangsun: that sounds right
    Adelene Dawner: Very much so
    genesis Zhangsun: I identify very much with fish
    genesis Zhangsun: they have appeared in some rather important dreams for me
    Wol Euler: interseting.
    genesis Zhangsun: Wol what animal/life form would you identify yourself with?
    genesis Zhangsun: raven?
    Wol Euler: hmmmm, tricky.
    genesis Zhangsun: Adelene is that what u are?
    Adelene Dawner: Crow. With a bit of phoenix flame. ^.^
    Wol Euler: at times I can see many animals in myself, but never fish and seldom birds.
    Adelene Dawner: I've noticed, and am still discovering, a system of symbolism in my metaphors. Flight means something specific. Being an omnivore means something specific. Being smart means something specific. Having a certain kind of flock- or pack-life means something specific. Being aquatic means something specific, but I don't know what yet.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Adelene Dawner doesn't think she'd noticed anyone being aquatic, before. But Gen and Pema both are.
    Wol Euler: http://www.crows.net/
    Adelene Dawner: ooooo
    genesis Zhangsun: that is interesting Adelene
    genesis Zhangsun: tell me when u know what it means I'd love to know
    Adelene Dawner: Yup ^.^
    Wol Euler: the more I think about that, Adelene, the more I like it. Pema flashes and glitters and darts about, impossible to lay a hand on him.
    Adelene Dawner: *yes*.
    Adelene Dawner: ;P
    genesis Zhangsun: thats a nice way to put it Wol
    genesis Zhangsun: you have such a way with words
    Wol Euler: well, I wouldn't have thought of the image had Adelene not triggered me to think of himt hat way.
    Wol Euler: and ty :-)

    Wol talks a bit about her attachment to words...

    Wol Euler: I think sometimes taht my way with words may be an attachment :-)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes? more on that?
    Wol Euler: I use them as a magician uses his sleeves, guide people's attention where I want it, away from where I don't want it.
    Adelene Dawner: I think that him being aquatic is part of the reason I have such trouble communicating with him sometimes... we both understand that 'current' is something unusual, different from what most people experience, but air currents are *not* the same as water currents, and we have trouble seeing the differences. (To stretch a metaphor all out of shape, anyway ^.^)
    Adelene Dawner: Seeing and accounting for, I mean.
    Wol Euler nods
    genesis Zhangsun: hmm yes interesting Adelene the sensation is the same but the appearance different
    genesis Zhangsun: Wol when did u notice this attachment?
    genesis Zhangsun: is it recent?
    Adelene Dawner: And the way of using it is different, too... diving in the water is not the same as diving in the air.
    genesis Zhangsun: good point Adelene
    Wol Euler: I've always suspected it of myself actually. But being here and watching Pema debating, seeing him use rhetorical tricks that I too sometimes use, brought it home.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ @ Wol
    Wol Euler: do fish feel gravity, I wonder? Birds do, birds cann fall.
    Adelene Dawner: mmm. Fish don't, from what I know of 'em. Swim bladders.
    Wol Euler nods. Right. No gravity, then, just buoyancy.

    Gaya or gagya comes in to join us

    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adelene Dawner caws ^.^
    genesis Zhangsun: Back to your point about words I often find that our strongest points can be the last holdouts for the self
    Wol Euler: hello gagya.
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Gaya!
    Wol Euler: *gaya
    genesis Zhangsun: *of the self
    Gaya Ethaniel: gagya <smile>
    Wol Euler: sounds hungarian.
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders on 'gagya'
    genesis Zhangsun: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel zooms on Adele
    Adelene Dawner feels watched. @.@ ^.-
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    genesis Zhangsun: its easy to let go of the things we dislike ourselves harder to let go of the things we pride ourselves on
    Wol Euler: yes, true. Attachment indeed.
    genesis Zhangsun: I had a wonderful experience with this recently
    Wol Euler: mm?

    Spacing out and experience addiction

    genesis Zhangsun: yes it was an experience of space
    Gaya Ethaniel likes the sparkly features on Adele
    genesis Zhangsun: well that is maybe starting at the end
    Gaya Ethaniel: / feathers*
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    genesis Zhangsun: the beginning started with recognizing that one of my greatest attachments even addiction is to experience itself
    Wol Euler: in the sense of "variety", Gen?
    genesis Zhangsun: I realized I was an experience addict
    genesis Zhangsun: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences

    Pema comes in and graces us with his presence

    Wol Euler: hello pema
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi There!
    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, Gen, Adeene, Wol!
    Adelene Dawner *must* show off. ^.^
    Wol Euler: yes, you must!!!!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Pema Pera: WWOOOOWWWW
    Pema Pera: so much shape shifting . . . .
    Wol Euler giggles
    Adelene Dawner: hold on, the script takes a few minutes to get pretty.

    and soon after so did Quilty...

    Pema Pera: hi Quilty!
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Quilty :)
    Quilty Bookmite: hi all.
    Wol Euler: hello quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry to drop in late.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    genesis Zhangsun: no such thing as late ;)
    genesis Zhangsun: just good timing
    Wol Euler: "differently punctual"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Lovely to see you Quilty
    Adelene Dawner snerks at Wol.
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sudden lag...
    Pema Pera: I hope I didn't interrupt! The first line I saw when coming in was:
    Pema Pera: genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences
    Pema Pera: may I ask what the discussion was about?
    Wol Euler: y'know, I am *totally* embodied in SL. I thought "how can Adelene type when she needs to stand on all four paws?"
    genesis Zhangsun: lol
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)

    I immediately looked to Adelene's long dancing whiskers and apparently so did Pema!

    genesis Zhangsun: she's using her whiskers
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera: with her long whiskers perhaps, Wol?
    Wol Euler: I guess.
    Pema Pera: haha
    Adelene Dawner laughs
    genesis Zhangsun: lol
    Pema Pera: synchronized swimming
    Pema Pera: in thoughts
    Quilty Bookmite: Dragons are powerful creatures in the east. Possibly through magic. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel cannot see Pema...
    genesis Zhangsun: swimming yes nice way to put it
    Pema Pera: is this the texture, Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: hm?
    Pema Pera: the white with the mottled specks?
    Pema Pera: (spelling??)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Where is Pema?
    Adelene Dawner: of the dragon? That's the scale texture it comes with. The color of the tint does change though.
    Quilty Bookmite: two cushions to your left Gaya/

    Gaya suddenly disappeared...SL was a bit unstable this day

    genesis Zhangsun: lost her
    genesis Zhangsun: SL is unstable today
    Wol Euler:brb, something in my eye
    Pema Pera: I didn't see much color change yet -- should I look better?
    Adelene Dawner: hm, let me make it more dramatic for a moment.
    Pema Pera: k
    Pema Pera: wb Gaya!
    genesis Zhangsun: wb
    Quilty Bookmite: WB Gaya.
    Pema Pera: okay, now I can see, yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
    Quilty Bookmite: Ganasis is still a cloud for me.
    Pema Pera: shades of meaning, at least of color
    Quilty Bookmite: _Genesis_
    Adelene Dawner: there it goes.
    Pema Pera: nice!
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks
    genesis Zhangsun: am i a cloud for everyone?
    Pema Pera: like clouds passing
    Pema Pera: no, Gen, you look fine to me
    Gaya Ethaniel: gen is a grey AV sunked into the pavillion...
    Pema Pera: Adelene looks like clouds passing
    Pema Pera: in a wild thunderstorm
    Adelene Dawner: *your* colors are much more subtle, but the scripted light source on the table here stops subtle colors from working right.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Can't see Adele... Wol also stuck in the pavillion with some clothes on

    The Never Ending Story

    genesis Zhangsun: she looks a bit like the dragon in the Never Ending Story
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
    Quilty Bookmite: Adelene looks very colourful
    Pema Pera: Gaya, if you zoom in on someone grey, they often then become full avatars and then you can zoom out again
    Gaya Ethaniel is Offline
    Quilty Bookmite: And changing colour all the time.
    Pema Pera: So this is your representation of me, right, Adelen :-)
    Pema Pera: *e
    Adelene Dawner: Yup.
    Pema Pera: nice!
    Adelene Dawner: Mostly.
    Pema Pera: And I like the association with Fuchur
    Adelene Dawner: The face isn't the best match, but close.
    Pema Pera: the Gluecksdrachen
    genesis Zhangsun: yah ganow
    Pema Pera: in English lucky dragon??? From never-ending story
    Pema Pera: haha, genau ja
    Adelene Dawner: yes ^.^ a favorite
    Quilty Bookmite: A big cudly dragon?
    Wol Euler: back
    Pema Pera: cudly not quite
    Adelene Dawner: The book was awesome, too - the second half, which didn't make it into a movie, was realyl something.
    Pema Pera: yes!!
    Pema Pera: I never saw the movie, but read the book, in German
    Pema Pera: was very moving
    Wol Euler: yes, me too. wasn't oit marvellous?
    Pema Pera: and very insightful, in so many subtle ways
    Adelene Dawner puts the script back where it belongs

    Book Club?

    Pema Pera: If we ever run out of things to do here, we could have a book reading club, all reading a chapter and talking about that, once a week . . . . but . . . so many other fun things to do too!
    Wol Euler smiles. Good idea.
    Adelene Dawner: 'if we ever'... blasphemy, Pem. ^.^
    Pema Pera: hehe, how would you say it, Adelene?
    genesis Zhangsun: I put Alice through the Looking Glass on the list
    Pema Pera: sure, and the Little Prince
    Quilty Bookmite: All childrens books?
    Adelene Dawner: I donno, but we're not *ever* goona run out of stuff to talk about here...
    Pema Pera: yup, for adults
    Wol Euler: Monsieur Ibrahim and the Flowers of the Koran
    Pema Pera: don't know that one
    Quilty Bookmite: Terry Pratchett has written some excellent childrens books.
    Adelene Dawner: Adults' books, too. ^.^
    Wol Euler: ah :-) quite a treat, in the same vein as the Little prince
    Pema Pera: and another Michael Ende book, Momo
    Pema Pera: very PaB, about time !!
    Quilty Bookmite: I loved reading the Harry Potter books but they are probably too popular. :-)
    Pema Pera: actually, if we really really had lots of time (sorry, Adelene :), we could even act out one of those books, playing the characters -- SL lends itself to that!
    Quilty Bookmite: Sounds like fun. :-)
    Pema Pera: dragon looking for self reflection in table?
    Adelene Dawner: Dragon trying to fit in a small pavilion. ^.^
    Pema Pera: ah, through the looking glass!!
    Wol Euler: heheheh

    Newcomer Madell enters...and I return to earlier thread

    Pema Pera: Hi Madell!
    genesis Zhangsun: Wol could I ask u how u plan on addressing your attachment?
    genesis Zhangsun: if at all?
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry this was from an earlier thread
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Madell
    Wol Euler: well, frankly I am not sure I will :-) because I do experience it as very positive, onthe whole.
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps the seeing of attachment is enough
    Madell Magic: have i intruted?
    Pema Pera: Please join us, Madell, have you been here before?
    genesis Zhangsun: I commented on Wol's wonderful use of words
    Pema Pera: not at all!
    Pema Pera: anyone is welcome here
    Madell Magic: no I have not
    genesis Zhangsun: and she mentioned that it may be an attachment
    Wol Euler: genesis Zhangsun: I think sometimes taht my way with words may be an attachment :-)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes? more on that?
    genesis Zhangsun: I use them as a magician uses his sleeves, guide people's attention where I want it, away from where I don't want it.
    Madell Magic: /
    genesis Zhangsun: thanks Wol
    genesis Zhangsun: love the playing back to being?
    Pema Pera: (madell, just on the side: what we are doing here is described on http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/)
    Pema Pera: (we gather here four times a day, 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm, and anyone is welcome)
    Wol Euler: that use is shall we say morally supect, but on the whole is is a large part of who I am. Giving up wordery would be play-acting .
    Madell Magic: cool
    Madell Magic: I have to make lunch. I might be back a little later
    Pema Pera: fine!
    genesis Zhangsun: yes that is perhaps why in dealing with attachments seeing may be enough
    Madell Magic: thanks for letting me join
    genesis Zhangsun: seeing the wave rise and fall
    Wol Euler: ok, Madell, come back any time :-)
    genesis Zhangsun: sure Madell feel free to come back!
    Quilty Bookmite: you're welcome Madell.
    Quilty Bookmite: I need to go. It's bedtime for me.
    Wol Euler smiles. Good nihgt quilty.
    genesis Zhangsun: ok nightie night

    Quilty goes off to bed and Pema realizes that he has stayed up all night...

    Wol Euler: ah, too late.
    Pema Pera: Night, Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.
    Pema Pera: I hear the Kyoto temple bell next doors, just one second before the bell here in SL :)
    Pema Pera: well synchronized
    Wol Euler: :-)
    Pema Pera: it is 6 am here
    Wol Euler: the bells in some German towns are deliberately de-synchronized, to give a "soundscape"
    genesis Zhangsun: ah the joys of jetlag
    Wol Euler: lol
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Wol Euler: it#s tomorrow, there!
    Wol Euler: wow
    genesis Zhangsun: living in the future
    Adelene Dawner: 13 hours' difference, yikes.
    Wol Euler: the roundness of the world bends my head.
    Pema Pera: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I rather like this attachment Wol
    genesis Zhangsun: ;)
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: may I ask, what are you doing in Japan, Pema? Astrobusiness or Zennery?
    Wol Euler: or just fun?
    Pema Pera: everything
    Pema Pera: formally work
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Adelene Dawner: The thing with attachments it to realize that they're optional, really... if one is causing distress, it might make sense to drop it, but you don't have to... if one is useful, it might make sense to keep it, but you don't have to.
    Pema Pera: and that is a big part
    Wol Euler nods to Adelene
    Pema Pera: but once I am here, of course I enjoy the world here, and friends, etc
    Pema Pera: yes, Adelene

    Caledonia enters...and I decided to stay I always enjoy sessions with Cal so much

    Pema Pera: Hi Caledonia!!
    Wol Euler: hello cal
    genesis Zhangsun: nice point Adelene
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Cal!
    Pema Pera: fancy to meet you here!
    Pema Pera: may I come back to the very first line I heard here?
    genesis Zhangsun: are u taking a break?
    Pema Pera: oops, lost it from my buffer, oh well
    Caledonia Heron: hi there :) things broke early today
    Wol Euler: Pema Pera: I hope I didn't interrupt! The first line I saw when coming in was:
    Pema Pera: genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences
    Pema Pera: may I ask what the discussion was about?
    Adelene Dawner: [13:37] MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Pema Pera (19m) [13:37] genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Wol Euler: :-)
    Pema Pera: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes there was a thread left undone
    Pema Pera: now we are collecting old experiences!
    Pema Pera: shame on me
    Wol Euler: lol
    Adelene Dawner chuckles.
    Pema Pera: you collected my arrival as a new experience instead . . . .
    Pema Pera: whether my arrival was desired is another matter . . . .
    Wol Euler: ah shush.
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Adelene Dawner: Being is, Pem. *swats with tail(
    Pema Pera: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: is this a cue?
    genesis Zhangsun: should I tie up?
    Pema Pera: tie up the dragon?
    Caledonia Heron: sounds kinky :)
    Wol Euler: yes please, it would itnerest me
    Adelene Dawner: o.O
    Pema Pera: O.o
    genesis Zhangsun: lol
    Wol Euler: "tieing up the dragon" is a bit like "belling the cat". Nice idea, but pretty rough on whoever has to do it.
    Adelene Dawner: Smart Wol. ^.^
    Pema Pera: except if there is someone who is particularly good with cats, or dragons
    genesis Zhangsun: dragon tamer
    Adelene Dawner :Ps at Pema. ^.-
    Pema Pera: foxes are easier, as in the Little Prince
    Pema Pera: easier to tame
    genesis Zhangsun: or rats like the pied piper
    Pema Pera: even easier!
    genesis Zhangsun: oh no are we off on another fairy tale trail
    Wol Euler: lol
    Wol Euler: back to the book clubs
    Caledonia Heron: maybe a squizzle or two
    Pema Pera: now you're talking, Cal!

    Collecting experiences letting the collecting go...

    genesis Zhangsun: I was telling Wol that one of my last "holdouts" as Stim would call it was my attachment to collecting experience
    Pema Pera: once a squizzle is out of the bag, you can't get her back in
    Pema Pera: AH! Now you're talking, hehe
    Caledonia Heron: as tricky as tieing a dragon :)
    Pema Pera: the long awaited answer!
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pema Pera: I'm all ears, Gen
    Wol Euler: lol
    Pema Pera: in all seriousness :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I commented that sometimes the thing we take the most pride in can be the last remaining holdouts of the self
    Pema Pera: absolutely!
    genesis Zhangsun: when I let this go then I could truly begin to experience the experience without any desire for possession
    Pema Pera: it reminds me of Cal's experience sitting near the beach
    genesis Zhangsun: yes?
    genesis Zhangsun: Cal u want to say anything about this?
    Pema Pera: surprised, since not looking for it, was that it, Cal?

    Cal's experience of eternity

    Caledonia Heron: I'm really taken with aspects of that event .. and another that has similar feel to it
    Pema Pera: please do tell!
    Caledonia Heron: no, not looking at at
    Caledonia Heron: I have no idea how much time passed
    Caledonia Heron: it could have been a while, it could have been a minute
    Caledonia Heron: I can't reliably say
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Caledonia Heron: I didn't know what happened if anything until later
    Caledonia Heron: remarkable really
    Caledonia Heron: not your everyday thing
    Wol Euler nudges Cal. Come and sit with us, Adelene won't bite.
    Caledonia Heron: outside my direct comprehension
    Caledonia Heron: :) super lag ... think I might crash
    Caledonia Heron: ah, made it :)
    Pema Pera: there was another such experience, apart from the beach one, Cal?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, swinging in the hammock
    Caledonia Heron: same sort of thing, not doing too much, listening to the insects sing
    Caledonia Heron: same time slip - same "other" .... and when it stopped it was like a snap-to
    Caledonia Heron: weird, ok, restful .... weird in that I can't categorize it
    Pema Pera: when you do a 9-sec exploration, is it possible (or desirable) to try to open yourself for that kind of freedom?
    Pema Pera: or would that feel too manipulative?
    Pema Pera: there is a fine line there . . . .
    Caledonia Heron: sure, it's possible ... but these things come when I'm not paying 9sec attention... and yes, I get that there's no attention being paid in 9sec, ... it's different though
    Pema Pera: in what way different?
    Caledonia Heron: however.... 9sec is never far from present so perhaps it primes the pump ... I don't really know, this isoutside the realm of my experience
    Caledonia Heron: I think I'm trying to describe the difference between actively doing 9sec in a intentional way
    Caledonia Heron: and the way sometimes, there is an "other" that is unbidden that occurs
    Caledonia Heron: doesn't make a lot of sense
    Pema Pera: makes loads of sense!
    Pema Pera: What we can actively do is prime the pump
    Pema Pera: but not create the ground water
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: the ground water is there, ready to come up, once the pump is willing to be a conduit
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I can sense that ... there is an undercurrent that surfaces
    Pema Pera: The role of memory is tricky -- wild experiences are wonderful, they help strengthen our faith that we're really onto something deeper and more real -- but then they tend to become a trap and we get attached to them . . . .
    Caledonia Heron: yes, memory is unreliable
    Caledonia Heron: and it sounds so blah blah
    Pema Pera: the best way to use the memories of wonderful experiences, I think, is to let them motivate us to try harder and more frequently to step aside
    Pema Pera: as Gen described
    Pema Pera: we hear ya, Cal :)
    Caledonia Heron: I wonder Pema, I come here to see if I hear other similar sorts of things
    Caledonia Heron: everyone describes it differently, remembers it differently
    Pema Pera: religions have devotion as a tool -- but then one tends to get stuck too much to the object of devotion and that has to drop away too then

    Caledonia the brave pioneer without a tourist guide

    Caledonia Heron: so it's hard to know if anything between one person to the next is the same sort of thing
    Pema Pera: you're avoiding the religious helpings and trappings
    Pema Pera: a brave and original path!
    Pema Pera: authentic and therefore hard
    Caledonia Heron: I guess... feeling pretty clueless
    Pema Pera: but I certainly resonate with what you describe
    Caledonia Heron: well, thanks , that is an important statement to hear :)
    Pema Pera: as, I think, do Adelene, Gen, Wol -- don't you?
    Caledonia Heron: but enough about me ... :)
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm ^.^
    Wol Euler: indeed
    Pema Pera: the reason it is so hard for you, Cal, is that by being non-religious you don't have the tourist guides that come with being religious
    Pema Pera: you are an intrepid tourist with no books, no guides
    Caledonia Heron: lol
    Wol Euler: :-)
    Pema Pera: so yes, you are totally clueless
    Pema Pera: which is marvelous
    Pema Pera: an inspiration for us all!
    Caledonia Heron: swell
    Caledonia Heron: I seriously doubt there is inspiration in that :)
    Pema Pera: here we talk about practice and stages and levels, and you just go to the beach or sit in a hammock
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pema Pera: the inspiration is that you show us that the guides are only guides, that the real thing is out there
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Pema Pera: and that the clueless can be way ahead of us, while we're spending our time talking
    Wol Euler: true. If it exists at all, it is in a hammock just as much as in a cloister.
    Pema Pera: !!
    genesis Zhangsun: knowledge is not information
    Caledonia Heron: yes, makes sense ..... my little boat is drifting trying to make better sense... perhaps there is no sense to be had
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pema Pera: oh, there is sense in some ways, I'm not advocating to stay clueless -- but it's a great start! Like emptying a tea cup before pooring new tea in it
    Caledonia Heron: I wonder time to time what is next, how to do it better, can I live there?
    genesis Zhangsun: its a constant refinement, a tuning in
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I think some live there Cal
    genesis Zhangsun: you could too
    Pema Pera: what you wrote about cleaning out your RL life, simplifying, is a great step, a preparation, a gesture, letting new angles come in.
    Caledonia Heron: yes, streamline .... I like the cleaness, the clarity ... by cleaness I don't mean dirt
    Caledonia Heron: I like it here too Gen :)
    Pema Pera: the joke is: we are all living there already, but we keep insisting that we have our problems preventing us from seeing -- like newborn baby cats keeping their eyes closed tightly . . . .
    Caledonia Heron: here/there/here ... same
    Caledonia Heron: yes, pretty funny joke too :)
    Pema Pera: and when we really relax, at beach or in hammock, we sometimes forget to close the door/eyes/heart
    Caledonia Heron: yes, that rings true
    genesis Zhangsun: we are happy exactly where we are
    genesis Zhangsun: a cat laying in the sun
    Pema Pera: or a dragon :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Caledonia Heron: so I don't know if talking about it to infinity is my way .... there is really no data to be had as it's already what's so
    Pema Pera: yes, no data, but there is something we can "do" of sorts . . . . trickly to put into words. We can sort-of learn to let this openness inundate us . . .
    Pema Pera: btw, when I talk about "stepping aside" I mean it in a very light way.
    Pema Pera: stepping aside still has a bit too much "doing"
    Pema Pera: not stepping in the way is better
    Pema Pera: not doing
    Caledonia Heron: no effort
    Pema Pera: but even that is a subtle something
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: to see that nothing is needed can lead to real no-effort
    Caledonia Heron: the infintesimal effort of no effort :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Pema Pera: it's a circle. You see, by golly, I really don't need anything! Then effort drops away naturally. That then helps to open your eyes to see that in the first place, that nothing is needed
    Caledonia Heron: I'm in a bit of a pickle, a dilemma of sorts about proceeding

    Stepping into the maelstrom

    Pema Pera: The problem is how to step into the circle
    Pema Pera: the big maelstrom
    Pema Pera: the 9-sec explorations are little eddies
    Pema Pera: to help you reach the maelstrom
    Caledonia Heron: are you in the maelstrom?
    Pema Pera wonders whether this is not too wild a metaphor :-)
    Pema Pera: more and more, yes
    Pema Pera: in a way my whole life has been a growth in that direction
    Caledonia Heron: thinking one day you will not show up :)
    genesis Zhangsun: the eye of the storm is the safest place :)
    Pema Pera: but there are mile stones along the way
    Pema Pera: :)
    Caledonia Heron: and what might those be?
    Pema Pera: I'm only just beginning, Cal, not to worry !
    Pema Pera: Stim might not show up one day, that's another story
    Caledonia Heron: lol

    Pema's milestone 3 years ago...

    Pema Pera: the biggest single mile stone was three years ago
    Pema Pera: a switch from finding myself more and more often "at the beach" and "inthe hammock" triggered by all kind of practices, to realizing how easy it was to open up and let that happend, WITHOUT any kind of practice, or power or esoteric anything
    Pema Pera: The best comparison I can think of is toilet training -- an odd metaphor
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Caledonia Heron: one day you know how?
    Pema Pera: suddenly you find that there are muscles you didn't know you had, and didn't know how to use
    Pema Pera: and then you realize that you have them, can use them, and it's all very easy
    Pema Pera: effortless
    Pema Pera: well, it is both gradual and sudden
    Caledonia Heron: yes like a muscle memory of sorts .... I thought that, not openly, but like, I've been here feeling
    Wol Euler: wb gaya
    Pema Pera: I have had more and more intuitions nad more and more experiences, but then, three years ago, I realized how to let it happen without tools, tricks, effort
    Pema Pera: hi Gaya!
    genesis Zhangsun: wb Gaya!
    genesis Zhangsun: or gagya
    Caledonia Heron: which was?
    Pema Pera: May I give another metaphor , a more pleasant one?
    Wol Euler: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Caledonia Heron: lol, ok
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs
    Pema Pera: I remember the day that I lost interest in playing in a children's play ground
    Wol Euler fears she will never live that down.
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Pema Pera: I went down a slide, and suddenly realized there was no need to do that anymore
    Gaya Ethaniel zooms around Adele
    genesis Zhangsun: brb
    Pema Pera: that I could get the same sense of "fun" in other ways
    Pema Pera: but these are all limited metaphors . . . .
    Caledonia Heron: sure, and clues nontheless
    Gaya Ethaniel: Beautiful Adele... is this Pema?
    genesis Zhangsun: back
    Adelene Dawner: Got it in one, Gaya.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    genesis Zhangsun: Cal thanks for sharing
    Pema Pera: Allow me to make one more feeble attempt, Cal, to explain
    genesis Zhangsun: we haven't been a session together in a long time
    Caledonia Heron: ok, wwe all go our own way on this... I appreciate the descriptions, it informs me better :)
    Pema Pera: and then I'll shut up, promise!
    Caledonia Heron: me too :)
    genesis Zhangsun: and I just want you to know I am there too!
    Caledonia Heron: sorry to blah blah you
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Pema!
    genesis Zhangsun: continue...

    Wol leaves us...what a marathon session this is...
    Wol Euler: (sorry, my dears, too tired. I must go to bed! Good night, thanks for the great conversation)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Caledonia Heron: bye Wol
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sweet dreams Wol
    Adelene Dawner: 'night Wol
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Wol!
    Wol Euler: bye, take care.
    Pema Pera: it felt like I had been painting sky pictures for 35 years, more and more accurately, and then I found out I could open my closed windows and watch the sky, without any practice, training, effort -- it was there. That was three years ago, and since then I have learned to simply open the window. End of story!
    Caledonia Heron: sounds like a beginning more :)
    genesis Zhangsun: that is beautiful
    Pema Pera: (end of today's story -- have to go out for breakfast :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pema Pera: Thanks, Cal, wonderful to hear your way of exploring all this!
    genesis Zhangsun: what about then bringing the perspective from opening the window back to the painting
    Caledonia Heron: ok you're welcome, I think :) mostly a lot of confusion
    genesis Zhangsun: surely you can paint a better sky now then before
    Pema Pera: that's what I'm trying to do here, Gen :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    genesis Zhangsun: better than a paintin
    Adelene Dawner: o.O
    genesis Zhangsun: oops painting
    genesis Zhangsun: I am walking in it
    Pema Pera: but mostly what I like to do is to have all of us open our windows
    Gaya Ethaniel loves the emoticon Adele typed
    Pema Pera: but we seem to have to start with paintings :-)
    genesis Zhangsun: then we'll be painting a better picture together better than one could do on their own
    Pema Pera: for sure!
    Caledonia Heron: I am covered in paint it would appear ... not much elsewhere
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Pema Pera: hehe
    genesis Zhangsun: nice session
    genesis Zhangsun: thanks all
    Pema Pera: yes, thanks for hosting, Gen!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: see you all later -- wow, two hours!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day all
    Pema Pera: bye Gaya
    Caledonia Heron: yes, thank you all :)
    genesis Zhangsun: good day
    Pema Pera: bye Adelene
    Pema Pera: bye Gen & Cal
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Pem
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for showing the AV Adelene
    Caledonia Heron: bye :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    genesis Zhangsun: Bye Adelene!
    genesis Zhangsun: Bye Cal!
    genesis Zhangsun: Bye Pema!
    Adelene Dawner: cya Gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Bye Gaya
    Caledonia Heron: see you :)

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