2008.08.20 13:00 - Gathering of the great and good

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    This log was taken in part by Quilty Bookmite with Adams Rubble taking the last part. 

    I arrived early and Avastu arrived shortly after.

    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Avastu
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: How are you this evening/afternoon?
    Avastu Maruti: perfect - and you?
    Quilty Bookmite: Almost perfect. :-)
    Avastu Maruti: done washing the dishes?

    What Avastu is eluding to is my habit of sitting in the pavilion in SL while I wash the dishes in RL waiting for the chat time to start. Since he often arrives early he knows this habit of mine.

    Quilty Bookmite: I'm leaving them tonight. Will do them in the morning. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm free to talk for a change.

    My radar tells me that Pema is in the vicinity.

    Quilty Bookmite: Pema approaches
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pema
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Pema Pera: Hi Quilty, hi Avastu!
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: I don't think I'll stay long, but since jetlag kept me up here at 5 am in Kyoto, Japan, I thought I might as well drop in briefly :-)

    Ha! :-)

    Quilty Bookmite: It's nice to see you however briefly.
    Pema Pera: same here! This is the time that you are here most frequently, right?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I rarely come to chats at other times.
    Quilty Bookmite: My daughter is asleep at this time.
    Pema Pera: Well, come October I should be regularly at this slot again.
    Pema Pera: Ah, I see!
    Pema Pera: In September I'll still be in Japan, but October + November in Princeton
    Quilty Bookmite: Lots of travelling then.
    Pema Pera: How's it been so far for you, Quilty, this whole Play as Being adventure?
    Quilty Bookmite: I will be going to Israel some time next month but I don't know when yet.
    Pema Pera: yes, lots of traveling for my work -- but less so now that I am working more in SL !!

    Pema and I start a discussion on PaB practice and how it relates to my own meditation practice.

    Quilty Bookmite: I have enjoyed the talks very much. I have tried the practice on occasions but not all that much.
    Pema Pera: have you ever tried to jot down some brief notes, while doing the 9 sec practice?
    Quilty Bookmite: No.
    Pema Pera: it may be fun to do. I know it sounds almost silly, to "meditate" for nine seconds, and then to even write down something about that . . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . but still, until you try, you won't know!
    Pema Pera: The idea is not to think about it
    Pema Pera: but more spontaneously just to express yourself
    Pema Pera: a word, a few words, anything brief
    Quilty Bookmite: I can certainly try. It does seem a short time for anything to come up, especially when I am used to meditating for longer periods.

    It wasn't going to be an intimate conversation however. People started arriving and just kept arriving - and adding their own experiences.

    Pema Pera: Hi Adams and Wol!
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Wol, hi Adams
    Pema Pera: Yes, I know, Quilty!
    Pema Pera: That's the delight of it -- it almost shouldn't work, and yet it does!
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Doug
    Pema Pera: Hi Doug!
    Adams Rubble: hello everyone :)
    Quilty Bookmite: You have presumably done a lot of meditation yourself in the past. How do you find it compares?
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Pema Pera: it is different
    Pema Pera: and of course I can't say how it would be if I had never meditated :)
    Adams Rubble: hello fael :)
    Pema Pera: for me at least, it really helps to keep a kind of continuity, it helps to integrate everything into my life.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams, doug, Avastu, Quilty, Pema :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Fael!
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: Hello Fael.
    doug Sosa: sorry took me longer than usual.
    Pema Pera enjoys watching Avastu greeting by levitating
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Avastu Maruti: :)
    Fael Illyar: It's getting rare I react to my PaB bells anymore.
    Adams Rubble: me w2
    Adams Rubble: 2
    Pema Pera: I was asking Quilty about his PaB experience so far, just before all of you dropped by. Quilty, can you say a bit more?
    Quilty Bookmite: Quite a gathering today. Hi Threedee
    Pema Pera: Hi Threedee!
    Quilty Bookmite: Certainly Pema...
    Threedee Shepherd: hi folks
    Pema Pera: Like what "Play" and "Being" means for you?
    Fael Illyar: It's sort of like, not knowing how to let go of anything more, often.
    Adams Rubble: hi 3d
    Quilty Bookmite: My PaB practice hasn't really thrown up anything that interesting. I think it is because I am used to meditating for longer periods.
    Quilty Bookmite: Being I equate to that which has lots of names, including the unborn, the cosmic Buddha etc.
    Quilty Bookmite: I realise that it may not mean that to others.
    Pema Pera: In general, do you find it easy to integrate your practice with the rest of your life, say over the last few years?
    Pema Pera: Being means many things to many of us :)
    Quilty Bookmite: It's never easy. :-)
    Fael Illyar: Hello Gaya :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
    Quilty Bookmite: Mainly because I have an inbuilt resistance to practice.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Gaya.
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Adams Rubble: hi gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    doug Sosa: :)

    I reflect on what it means to "play"

    Quilty Bookmite: The play part has only recently come to mean anything to me...
    Pema Pera: Perhaps one benefit of PaB practice is to lower the inbuilt resistance, but making it so short -- and yet having it "do" something
    Quilty Bookmite: It is a reminder to me not to take this too seriously.
    Pema Pera: yes, that's a very important point!
    Pema Pera: for anything in life
    doug Sosa: is not "too seriously" a form of play?
    Quilty Bookmite: True. :-)
    Pema Pera: especially for self/ego
    Pema Pera: I guess you can make anything into a play, Doug :)
    doug Sosa: sort of what humans do. Right three?
    Threedee Shepherd: yup
    Quilty Bookmite: I am also beginning to think that PaB may complement my usual practice quite well.
    Pema Pera: doing both might be most powerful, the longer and the very short explorations
    Pema Pera: until your whole life becomes exploration/meditation
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, that is one reason. The other you have already stated, breaking down my natural resistance.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Wol :)
    Pema Pera: lowering the threshold, yes
    Wol Euler: hihi
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Wol
    Pema Pera: Hi Wol!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Adams Rubble: hi wol
    doug Sosa: as i've mentioned a few times in recent days, it is the sore points, the awkward ones, the tired ones, where the mind is atually most visible to exploration.
    Wol Euler: ooh, quite a crowd!
    Pema Pera: yes, our covering over mechanisms sometimes fail then :)
    doug Sosa: indeed, so i find it counter productive to "prepare" for meditation. bette to let it just start in the middle of what we are doing.
    Quilty Bookmite: If meditation is only 9 seconds it doesn;t seem to make sense to "prepare". It makes the simple more onerous.
    Threedee Shepherd: I used PLAY in a discussion with Aedlene, last night, that trys to indicate how I experience it, and the observations of the 9-ssec, may I quote?
    doug Sosa: :)
    Wol Euler: please do :-)
    Threedee Shepherd: The Way IS, and its ISness keeps Being. I observe there are Lessons along the WAY that present themselves to me (such as in the 9-sec). I find I cannot ignore PLAYing with them any more than I can ignore Compassion, or hunger, so I try to learn. That's IT :)
    Wol Euler: hello isen
    Fael Illyar: Hi Isen
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Isen.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: Hi there, Isen!
    Adams Rubble: hello isen
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Tomo
    Fael Illyar: Hi Tomo
    Adams Rubble: helo tomo
    Quilty Bookmite: We will need more seats at this rate.

    Indeed there were only a couple of free seats. Any more and it would have been standing room only.

    Wol Euler: hello tomo
    Tomo Yuitza: oh hey guys, i didn't even realise it was 'that' time!
    Pema Pera: Hi Tomo!
    Tomo Yuitza: i'm afraid i can't stop, but have a nice evening
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: NP. Nice to see you Tomo.
    Adams Rubble: good to see you again
    Pema Pera: Thanks for sharing that, 3D!
    Threedee Shepherd: You're welcome
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks Threedee
    Pema Pera: do you want to say more about the context, or other times when you did it, how it was different?

    At this point Isen disappeared and didn't return.

    Threedee Shepherd: first here is a related quote that came just before it.
    Threedee Shepherd: *Being* is an active state, not passive, when it includes a mind-body in relative reality. It's all process, and I am once again observing that using the 9-sec.
    Threedee Shepherd: PLAYing is process. Learning is process. Process is what IS, seeking conclusions and ultimate answers ISN'T.
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders
    Threedee Shepherd: I hope I am not being too cryptic, I am not intending to be.
    Pema Pera: nono
    Pema Pera: it is fascinating how we all encounter what is in our own way
    Pema Pera: like lenses or prisms reflecting Being
    Pema Pera: and even for one person it changes all the time
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: The original suggestion for the PaB 9-sec was simply "try to drop (or de-emphasize) what you have, so that you can see better what you are"
    Pema Pera: or somethign along those lines -- each time I formulate it somewhat differently
    Pema Pera: and what I hope will happen over time here is that Being will express itself more and more fully
    Pema Pera: in whatever way Being likes to do so :)
    doug Sosa: :) it is..... and i must go...:)
    Threedee Shepherd: bye doug
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Doug :)
    Wol Euler: bye doug
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: By Doug
    Pema Pera: bye Doug!
    Quilty Bookmite: _Bye_
    Quilty Bookmite: A while ago there was a rather heated guardian meeting which I was not at...
    Gaya Ethaniel is Online
    Gaya Ethaniel: Which one?
    Quilty Bookmite: Just after I was in a chat where I brought up the subject of support and thought that there wasn't really enough support for a spiritual practice.
    Quilty Bookmite: A couple of weeks ago.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... the one I poofed
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble is overwhelmed with warm support
    Quilty Bookmite: I now think I was wrong in that and I had missed the point of "play".
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: There is always a danger in any spiritual practice but I also think people need to learn to stand on their own feet a little.
    Timik Andel: hello
    Fael Illyar: Hi Timik :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Timik.
    Wol Euler: or on the tble apparently
    Quilty Bookmite: Care to have a seat and join us?
    Timik Andel: can you fly
    Gaya Ethaniel: Welcome to SL Timik
    Timik Andel: come
    Timik Andel: bye-bye
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye
    Wol Euler: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: well, Timik sure stood on his own feet, Quilty
    Pema Pera: and on our table to boot!
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: anyway, I think the support is there if people need it.
    Gaya Ethaniel quickly adds Quilty on her emergency on-call list
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks, I think. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm sure you are better qualified though Gaya. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel is lost for words... 'thanks Quilty, same to you'
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: What do you mean by qualified btw?
    Threedee Shepherd: <aside> Timik was one of about 4 newbies who appeared in PaB over the past week. I wonder if there is some entry on a "places" list that we 'Pop-up" on?
    Quilty Bookmite: I mean you have more experience of PaB than I do.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Don't think that has to do with anything Quilty... good intention and understanding oneself is more important imo
    Pema Pera: we are near the welcome area, 3D, and we present a large cluster of green dots
    Gaya Ethaniel: 4th really 3D?
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe the welcome area is getting more active.
    Pema Pera: ?

    Dartman appears just outside the pavilion accompanied by a friend.

    Fael Illyar: Hello Dartman :)
    Threedee Shepherd: yes
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Dartman
    Dartman Baroque: Hi Fael ! *waves *
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: Hi Dartman and Monkie, feel free to join us
    Quilty Bookmite: Would you like to join us?
    Dartman Baroque: Please continue, we were just passing by
    Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
    Dartman Baroque: I wanted to show Monkie the place
    Dartman Baroque: Nice to see you all !
    Pema Pera: After we move to the new building, even closer to the welcome center, we should have more notecards and a little exhibition place, to explain about PaB
    Pema Pera: We're thinking about that, but first things first: autorecording :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, that will help.
    Threedee Shepherd: that will be good :)
    Wol Euler grins
    Adams Rubble: ;)
    Adams Rubble: brb
    Gaya Ethaniel: k
    Pema Pera: autorecording -> moving to new place -> setting up wiki to receive autorecording well --> improving wiki -> organizing new place better
    Pema Pera: all related
    Pema Pera: it will be fun!!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: I'm really looking forward to a clean new setup
    Pema Pera: with better organization of the ever growing information around PaB
    Threedee Shepherd: I will be glad to work on the "notecard-exhibition area"
    Pema Pera: great, you're in Threedee! Thanks
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks Threedee
    Pema Pera: Thanks, Wol, btw, for being poker or stoker (or joker?) for the wiki folks!
    Threedee Shepherd: brb
    Gaya Ethaniel: k
    Wol Euler: well, I shall do my humble best.
    Pema Pera takes a humble bow
    Gaya Ethaniel: What would you be doing Wol?
    Wol Euler: hi corvi
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: Hi there Corvus!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. Hello.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Corvus
    Wol Euler: beating people with blunt instruments, to get the autorecording project moving again.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Elilka Sieyes is Online
    Fael Illyar: Ah, ask Moon if he has any transferables :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Fael! Gaya! *winks at Wol*
    Wol Euler waves
    Wol Euler: will do, thanks
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah i c Wol
    Wol Euler: Avastu has kindly given me a hammer for official use.
    Gaya Ethaniel looks at Wol and ponders on 'blunt instrument'
    Adams Rubble is Online
    Gaya Ethaniel: Nah... not blunt Wol
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Threedee Shepherd: :D
    Wol Euler apologises for de-evolving the meeting away from Being (and Play)
    Pema Pera: playing it is, Wol!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: bluntly so :)
    Pema Pera: Corvuscorva, have you had a chance to play a bit with the 9-sec explorations?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: No.
    Pema Pera: you know about the basic idea?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I mean, I have had opportunity, but have not done it. Yes. I understand, a little, I think.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have read what is written.
    Pema Pera: no need to actually do it
    Pema Pera: you can just come here to chat of course
    Pema Pera: but it might be fun to try a few times
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. So far, it is what I have done.
    Pema Pera: doesn't take that long :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles..."seconds"
    Pema Pera: I like your Leonard Cohen quote in your profile !
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you!
    Pema Pera: There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in.-Leonard Cohen
    Pema Pera: wonderful summary of what we're doing here!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Pema Pera: cracking up often enough . . . .
    Pema Pera: with or without help of Wol
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, he was a Zen monk for a while. :-)

    Indeed Leonard Cohen spent some time in a Zen monastery in California battling with his depression. In the end he managed to deal with his demons.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Pema Pera: was he, Quilty?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: He was, wasnt he? I'd forgotten.
    Wol Euler: /mme grins
    Pema Pera: love his texts
    Quilty Bookmite: Helped him beat his depression.
    Gaya Ethaniel suddenly remembers Wol's recent visit to a weapons store... 'hide'
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. "He is a good teacher."
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... didn't know that Quilty thanks
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

    Quen, a newcomer, arrives.

    Pema Pera: come join us!
    Wol Euler: hello quen
    Pema Pera: Hi quen
    Fael Illyar: Well, I'm falling asleep here. I'll excuse myself now. Good night everyone :)
    quen Oh: hello Pema, hi all :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Quen
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight Faen
    Adams Rubble: nigh fael
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Good night Fae!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Fael!
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Wol Euler: bye fael, sleep well .
    Pema Pera: by Fael!
    Pema Pera: Quen, great to see you here -- have you been here before?
    Threedee Shepherd: bye Fael
    quen Oh: well I have been here, but unfortunately only when the sim is empty..
    Pema Pera: we're here four times a day, 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm
    quen Oh: PDT?
    Pema Pera: Quen and I last saw each other at an astronomy popular talk in SL, I believe
    Pema Pera: yes, PDT = SLT
    quen Oh: true
    quen Oh: was a nice initiative :-)
    Pema Pera: did you see our web site http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ ?
    Quilty Bookmite: I hope to get to one of these talks one day. They are always at a bad time for me.
    quen Oh: yes, I saw it
    Gaya Ethaniel: My time's up. Thanks for the conversation. Good day/night.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    quen Oh nods, not always easy to schedule in..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye GAya!
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodbye Gaya
    Pema Pera: is it okay to include your part in the conversations that we blog, Quen?
    Wol Euler: good night, gaya, take care
    Pema Pera: Bye Gaya!
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Adams Rubble: bye gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    quen Oh: yes, fine bye me
    Pema Pera: thanks!
    quen Oh: bye Gaya
    Pema Pera: what did you think of our crazy idea to stop eery 15 minutes for 9 seconds?
    Pema Pera: (to Quen, sorry)
    quen Oh: amazing idea, and seems very difficult to do.. have sometimes even trouble to stop to take a sip of coffee..
    Pema Pera: haha, yes
    Wol Euler nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snorts coffee through her nose..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: "yeah"
    Pema Pera: :-)
    quen Oh: and when I do without thinking its a very unpleasant cold coffee surprise... eeuw
    Pema Pera knows all about that experience . . . .
    quen Oh shivers
    quen Oh: tea is less serious..
    quen Oh: and curiously easier to remember
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe cold tea tastes better than cold coffee.
    Wol Euler: true, quilty.
    quen Oh: I am curious how you manage to stop 4 times an hour and how your experiences are...
    Pema Pera: anyone ready to report :) ?
    quen Oh: I seem to be able to finish a whole pot of tea while its warm without thinking about it, but able to manage a cup of coffee, must be something for Freud
    Adams Rubble: love to but can't thpe enough right now
    Quilty Bookmite: It's late and dark and quiet here. The 9 seconds enhances that.
    quen Oh: *not able sorry
    Threedee Shepherd: I do the 9-sec at intervals that seem to "appear", which by habit is now a few times an hour
    quen Oh: wow
    Adams Rubble: experience goes beyond and less than 4 times hour
    Threedee Shepherd: exactly :)
    quen Oh: seems to me that you become more aware of time, which seems not agreeable, as time seems to fly more and more lately...
    Adams Rubble: no rules
    quen Oh: lol better not doing it when you are lecturing..?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: In time maybe you'll find time slowing down. :-)
    quen Oh: Theedee? how is your experience on this? as your intervals seem to appear?
    Threedee Shepherd: I find there is often a momentary lull in an activity--any activity--that seems to invite a 9-sec pause
    Threedee Shepherd: Alos, I *cheat*, I am semi-retired and work from a home office much of the time :)
    Wol Euler: ah :)

    The subject of 9 seconds in phone conversations comes up.

    quen Oh: lol you don't have it in phone conversations..
    Adams Rubble: I blog and I have had as few as three e ntries in a day and as many as 30
    quen Oh: and how do all your 9 seconds look like... is it just some lull?
    Threedee Shepherd: In "some" phone conversations a 9-sec time out is almost required to retain any sanity :)
    quen Oh: hahaha Threedee
    quen Oh: 9 secs makes people wonder whether they have still a phone connection..
    quen Oh: perhaps play a waiting tune during that
    Threedee Shepherd: No, you miss the point :) It's while they are *talking* :)
    quen Oh: hahaha
    Wol Euler: lol
    Adams Rubble: PaB is more than the 15 minutes for me; it is exploration
    Adams Rubble: or less than :)
    quen Oh: but serious, what exactly is it you are doing?
    quen Oh: during the 9seconds I mean
    Quilty Bookmite: I have many conference calls in my job. If I stop for 9 seconds I very much doubt that anyone would notice. There is never a 9 second gap in the conversation. :-)
    Threedee Shepherd: observing whatever *comes by* without judgement or even labels or words
    Quilty Bookmite: With so much talking going on I wonder when people think.
    Adams Rubble: durint 9 seconds I start with simple meditation t start and then go from there
    Threedee Shepherd: yup, Quilty, many people talk first and think after, much to their later dismay :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes Threedee. :-)
    Adams Rubble: rubblebornthoughts@wordpress.com will show you what I do
    quen Oh: so is it something like to see and wait what appears, without judging, comparing it and focus on its being instead of the becoming?
    Threedee Shepherd: Adams, that likes like an e-mail address ??
    Pema Pera: nicely put, quen!
    Adams Rubble: sometimes :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Well said Quen
    Pema Pera: one way is to just "drop" what you're doing
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    Pema Pera: another way is continue with it but wear it lightly
    Pema Pera: see it in context
    Adams Rubble: yes 3d
    Pema Pera: don't get glued to it
    quen Oh: try that sometimes, but seems terribly difficult as I have a mind which can think about almost everything what would be a nice 'becoming' of the things.. ouch
    Adams Rubble: rubblebornthoughts.wordpress.com
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm afraid I must go.
    Adams Rubble: bye quilty
    Pema Pera: bye, Quilty!
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: Can someone else take the chat log if it continues much longer?
    quen Oh: bye Quilty :-)
    Threedee Shepherd: bye quilty
    Pema Pera: what do you mean with <becoming of the things> quen?
    Wol Euler: bye quiltyt, good night,

    The next part of the log was taken by Adams. Thank you Adams.

    Quilty Bookmite: Pemas brief visits are becoming legendary. :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Quilty!
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.

    Comments from here on are by Adams Rubble

    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: too much interesting stuff going on here
    quen Oh: well, it seems that things that attract your attention always meet with what you allready 'know'...
    Adams Rubble: ?
    quen Oh: so it meets your reference, what you collected in the past and by doing that you try to relate it to that...
    quen Oh: and by doing that you reinterprete what you allready know and make that new, try to form something more adequate...
    Pema Pera: yes, all conceptual activity has that structure
    Pema Pera: and then there is creativity, seemingly coming out of nowhere . . .
    quen Oh: and by doing that it seems to me that you are forming something new, its changing to meet with the direction you want to give it.. so its 'becoming'
    quen Oh: pff bit complicated sorry
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins. I am glad you are here.
    quen Oh: so basically the your own past is forming the future of what attracts your attention, because you are interpreting it in a constant (re)forming..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire resolves to get as many hooks to hook learning into as she can.
    Wol Euler: like the cycle of karma in miniature :-)
    quen Oh: seems to me there is always at least a tiny bit of creativity, as you don't know what things are going to be until you are in the next moment, but there can be more and less existing structure involved perhaps?
    Pema Pera: yes, it seems like a continuum
    quen Oh: so more and less creativity, where a lot of creativity completely renews your collected past on something?
    quen Oh: gives new perspective and therefor big changes in your usual context of interpreting
    Pema Pera: to connect it with what we're doing here, in terms of terminology, I like to see everything is come from Being, in and as Being, and the degree of obscuration makes it look like spontaneity or creativity or like more plodding thinking
    Pema Pera: and we can always go back to the Source
    Pema Pera: Being
    Pema Pera: in and as everything
    quen Oh: what exactly do you define as being?
    Pema Pera: well . . . can't capture it in words . . . .
    Adams Rubble loves to watch Pema speaking a different language to someone :)
    Pema Pera: Being is beyond words, but we can explore it
    Pema Pera: lol, Adams

    Pema uses my comment as encouragement for a little Dutch speak

    Pema Pera: we kunnen ook Nederlands spreken, quen
    quen Oh: some people consider the collected past of your experiences and reasoning as 'being', I consider that as merely dead, and the dynamic process of the meeting with what attracts your attention as being..
    Pema Pera: zullen we dat even doen, voor Adams?
    Adams Rubble: haha
    Wol Euler: ja, sicher! das wäre greht spassig.
    Wol Euler: *recht
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins, laughs.
    quen Oh: is iedereen NL hier?
    Pema Pera: Wol begrijpt ons
    Pema Pera: zij spreekt Duits
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Pema Pera: nee, alleen wij tweeen
    quen Oh: geweldig, is al lastig genoeg onderwerp, engels compliceert het vooral
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: whoa
    Pema Pera: coming back from Play to Being :
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Dynamic
    Avastu Maruti head spins
    Pema Pera: what we mean by Being, quen, is what goes beyond all dichotomies
    quen Oh: hallo Adams ;-)
    Pema Pera: all dualities
    quen Oh: ah, so also past - future
    Pema Pera: yes very much so
    Pema Pera: for Being there is no past-present-future
    Pema Pera: only a kind of eternal now . . . .
    Pema Pera: but words are misleading
    Pema Pera: Being is neither static nor dynamics
    Pema Pera: includes both
    Corvuscorva Nightfire loves Quen's dynamism quote...took her this long to decipher it.
    Threedee Shepherd: <running a bit slow in responding to the conversation, sorry>: Speaking of creativity and what *appears*:
    One of the many parts that make up my experience is a career as a neuroscientist. From that standpoint I understand the brain-body to be pattern seeking, pattern observing and pattern-making.
    As well as being such when living in the consciously perceived now, I think it is plausible to assume that much such pattern-related activity goes on continuously, trying new matches and new patrterns by "rubbing" existing ones together. That might be where creativity comes from.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: OK!!!! Slow down!!!!!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire mumbles..you would think english wasn't my first language...
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Wol Euler: lol
    quen Oh: ah, so what do you do when you are in the 9 seconds? because for me that seems not easy
    Corvuscorva Nightfire finally catches up.
    Pema Pera: you do nothing, quen
    Pema Pera: for a change :)
    Pema Pera: sorry, Corvus!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs. Thanks all.
    quen Oh: ouch! ;-)

    Gilles arrives

    Pema Pera: Hi Gilles!
    quen Oh: and stay awake
    quen Oh: hey Gilles! :-)
    Pema Pera: sure, you just drop what it was you were so busy with, for 9 seconds
    Pema Pera: and see what happens
    Pema Pera: no trick
    Pema Pera: no method
    Gilles Kuhn: hello all
    Adams Rubble: hello
    Pema Pera: come join us, Giles!
    Wol Euler: hello gilles
    Threedee Shepherd: hi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you for what you wrote Threedee.
    Gilles Kuhn: i come if i understand well its about the philo concept of being or am i wring?
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    Gilles Kuhn: wrong*
    Pema Pera: that's part of it, Giles!
    Pema Pera: but we're very informal
    Pema Pera: just chatting about the nature of reality :)
    Gilles Kuhn: i hope so pema i'm just out of restaurant ;-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Threedee Shepherd: information <---> informal <---> inform
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gilles Kuhn: so as hegel said say what you eat i said what you are ;-)
    Pema Pera: Giles, jij spreekt Vlaams begrijp ik?
    Gilles Kuhn: ya maar ik ben franstalige
    Pema Pera: quen en ik zijn Nederlands
    Pema Pera: just to please Adams, we're often switching languages here
    Gilles Kuhn: ik ken quen heel goed :-)
    quen Oh: :-) dat weet Gilles
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: ah!
    quen Oh lacht
    Pema Pera lacht ook
    Wol Euler: (fascinating, there are nights when half the conversaation is in Japanese)
    Pema Pera: �����?
    quen Oh: aargh...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Quen
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I love that word.
    Gilles Kuhn: ya dat s een van de weinige kennies ik heb of kennen in het bijbel......
    quen Oh: even if I understood, no way this keyboard will live any proper response to that
    Threedee Shepherd: "It's not the words, its the thought that counts :D
    Pema Pera: :D
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Wol Euler nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles..."helps if it is transmitted to my wee brain"
    Pema Pera: Quen, did we give you some idea of what we're doing, by now?
    Pema Pera: please don't hesitate to ask further!
    Adams Rubble: Pema knows I meant that he speaks to each of us a language we understand :)
    Pema Pera: hehe, Adams, that too, trying at least

    Gilles transforms into a big bear

    Gilles Kuhn hope the lion will not mind another predator neighbours
    Threedee Shepherd: purr
    quen Oh: ehm yes, I got some idea.. only to try every 15 minutes to do totally nothing during 9 seconds.. pff
    Gilles Kuhn: quen knowing you its not trying to say you know the exact inverse proportion ;-)
    Pema Pera: doesn't have to be totally, but could be, many ways to play -- it's an exploration, not a duty :)
    quen Oh loves the amount of soft fur close by, would not mind to ly in that for 9 seconds...
    quen Oh: lie*
    Threedee Shepherd: of course it is not possible to DO nothing ;)
    Gilles Kuhn: three can you fence ?
    quen Oh: besides breathing and some basical things
    Threedee Shepherd: no
    Adams Rubble: exploration is key :)
    Pema Pera: well, it's time for breakfast for me -- I came in 100 minutes ago to talk for a few minutes . . . . how time flies when you're having fun!
    Gilles Kuhn: then beware of quen ....:-) (even if i know you bettter i can think in that also for the better ;-) )
    Threedee Shepherd: byr Pema, enjoy LUNCH
    Pema Pera: lunch?
    Pema Pera: it is 6:40 am here
    Wol Euler: awww, bye pema!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Pema!
    Gilles Kuhn: gosh^pema still in japan ?
    Pema Pera: nice meeting you, Gilles!
    Pema Pera: again in Japan
    Wol Euler: he's havin tomorrow's breakfast already.
    Gilles Kuhn: too short friend
    quen Oh: enjoy your breakfast Pema
    Pema Pera: as of two days ago, yes, it is THursday here
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    quen Oh: hope you have not cold coffee by now..
    Adams Rubble: bye pema
    Gilles Kuhn: good day pema
    Pema Pera: thanks for dropping by quen!
    quen Oh: thanks for being here, will come again
    Pema Pera: sleep well everybody before you finally get YOUR Thursday breakfast :)
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    Adams Rubble: ;)
    quen Oh grins and waves to Pema
    Wol Euler smiles. bye pema
    Pema Pera: oh, Adams, can you send Quilty the chat log, the remainder
    Pema Pera: or put it on the wiki after QUilty does?
    Adams Rubble: okidoke
    Pema Pera: thank you!

    Pema departs

    Gilles Kuhn: argh adams okidokie was the favourite of my lawyer.......
    Wol Euler admires Quen's taste in boots.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: hopeit was a good lawyer
    Gilles Kuhn: héla héla héla wol you miss a letter to be a wolf.......
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: I'm an owl actually.
    Adams Rubble: her new job
    Threedee Shepherd: Gilles and quen, from your profiles it seems like there is mutual chemistry between you :D
    Gilles Kuhn: yes but not american i assure you ;-)
    quen Oh grins... howcome you think that 3d?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: groups.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ?
    Threedee Shepherd: both belong to group ACS
    Gilles Kuhn: yep and thankfully
    Gilles Kuhn: all are no more available publicy to see ;-)
    quen Oh: love your ava 3D ;-)
    quen Oh pets 3D carefully on his head
    Adams Rubble loves the way mouth moves when typing
    Threedee Shepherd: purr
    Corvuscorva Nightfire raises eyes at Gilles and laughs.
    Threedee Shepherd: Typing, talking, much the same
    quen Oh grins and tickles Gilles under his chin

    Gilles turns into a gold lion which seems to be a duplicate of Threedee

    Gilles Kuhn: well in this case do you prefer silver to gold dear ?
    Threedee Shepherd: Ahh, another Grendel's Children customer?
    quen Oh: lol is this something Olympic?
    Wol Euler <3 grendel.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins MMMhMMM!
    Avastu Maruti: pardon my friends

    Avastu escapes from the lair

    quen Oh: ah thank you Wol, missed your compliment.. :-)
    Wol Euler: good night, avastu, take care.
    Threedee Shepherd: ?me nods goodby
    quen Oh: goodnight Avastu
    Adams Rubble: bye Avastu :)
    Threedee Shepherd: Gilles, you may force me to bring out the *big* guns :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Quen...I loved the things you wrote/said about the nature of creativity and learning...about learning around what we know and the coming together of ideas
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: as creativity..did I understand/summarize that well?
    Gilles Kuhn: three i think i have that too .....
    quen Oh: thank you Corvuscorva, hope I was not too confusing in my poor english
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Oh no!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Your english was so good, I had problems following the ideas.
    Wol Euler: "poor english!"
    Wol Euler snorts.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or perhaps, I just liked savoring them.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Oh! I must go...dinnertime for me. Thank you all!
    Gilles Kuhn: tout beau tout beau corvu what were the ideas? because knowing plato and worst plotin about that...;-)
    Wol Euler: bye corvi, nice to see you again.
    quen Oh: we I think so, it was about connecting what you have collected in the past (experiences, reasoning) with what draws your attention, which will challenge that past, and for that you reinterprete and change it..
    Adams Rubble: bye corvi :)
    Gilles Kuhn: classic dialectic of exprerience quen
    Threedee Shepherd: not necessaarily dia-lectic, probably more multi-lectic
    quen Oh: and about creativity was just some thought that the amount of influence this past has on this interpreting or 'forming', as there must somehow also be something yet unknown in which will come up in the forming
    quen Oh: that is where I become confusing lol
    Adams Rubble: Quen, did Pema tel you will record the chat and post it on the Wiki. Do you have objections?
    Gilles Kuhn: if you began too to rhyme....
    quen Oh: he told, and I have none
    Adams Rubble: Good, thanks
    Gilles Kuhn: what have you drink the bourgogne?
    quen Oh: lol, only preserve the right to ask for the right of removal of any self incriminating or other horrible things I could say
    quen Oh: ehm yes, complicated english in which I somehow repeat myself, sorry
    Adams Rubble: i did not see anything wrong :)
    Adams Rubble: brb
    Gilles Kuhn: hell i missed that only for the pleasure of my palate......
    Wol Euler: no, nor I.
    quen Oh: well don't ask for the right of removal, but for the removal
    Wol Euler: ah, those are the good bits!
    Threedee Shepherd: ha ha
    quen Oh: lol
    quen Oh ruffles Gilles hairs and scratches behind his yellow ears
    quen Oh tickles Threedee under his chin... knowing how big cats like that
    Threedee Shepherd: folks, I will go, and see you tomorrow, perhaps. :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight, 3d, take care.
    quen Oh: bye Threedee, nice meeting you
    Gilles Kuhn think about re educating quen in ethology......;-)
    Threedee Shepherd: and you quen and Gilles, nice meeting
    Gilles Kuhn: bye 3D next time sur le pré.....
    quen Oh likes furry pets
    Adams Rubble: gilles did we ask your approval?
    Wol Euler: I too must go, it's late. Good night all.
    Wol Euler: Gilles, Quen, nice meeting you.
    quen Oh: nice meeting you too Wol
    Adams Rubble: yes good to meet you
    Adams Rubble: bye wol

    Wol takes leave

    Gilles Kuhn: adams as my tag can inform you i NEVER ask for aprovals.....
    Adams Rubble: i take that aS A YES :)
    quen Oh: you have no objection what you said here being blogged on the playing as being website Gilles?
    Gilles Kuhn: so you asked my leave let me consider before i leave......
    Gilles Kuhn: ok but next time i hope my contribution would be more substantial
    Adams Rubble: never worry about that, we all have days when it is or isn't :)
    Gilles Kuhn: btw what was the discussion about?
    Adams Rubble: it was good to hear from you both
    quen Oh is still pondering what exactly was all been said.. *grins
    quen Oh: you too Adams, nice to meet you
    Adams Rubble: i must go too now; hope to meet you again
    Adams Rubble: bye :)
    Gilles Kuhn: i'm sure some sunny day
    quen Oh: see you later Adams

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