2008.08.25 07:00 - Appreciating APAPB

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    That morning I (Pema) found Adams and Corvuscorva and Doug already in the pavilion when I entered.

    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)
    doug Sosa: hi.
    Pema Pera: Morning, everybody!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello.
    Adams Rubble: Good evening to you Pema
    Adams Rubble: night
    Pema Pera: night it is, 11 pm
    Pema Pera: and at midnight I have to chair an astro meeting in SL . . .
    Pema Pera: oh well, the Earth is round, what can I do ?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: It would be different if it was still the middle ages
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: really different.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: No SL.
    Pema Pera: love those flat Earths!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: The Church would run SL
    Pema Pera: purgatory?
    Adams Rubble: hmmm
    Pema Pera: Would anyone like to say something about their explorations, Play as Being related or otherwise?
    doug Sosa: i am struck by how the 9 sec leaves me local, which means, doesn't it, some sense of self remains?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Local?
    doug Sosa: yes the being i encounter while huge, is manifested locally.
    Pema Pera: what if spatial distance were an illusion?
    doug Sosa: in the 9 sec i don't (yet) try to disolve everything, only sef, but then local remains present.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Cal :)

    Caledonia dropped by, and I asked Doug about the APAPB sentence he had been working with.

    Pema Pera: the other day we started to talk a bit about this sentence you've been playing with
    Pema Pera: hi Cal!
    Caledonia Heron: hey there :)
    doug Sosa: yes.
    Pema Pera: Appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being
    Pema Pera: the illusion of "local" is presented too
    Pema Pera: but you don't have to buy into that perhaps
    doug Sosa: yes.
    Pema Pera: if and when you do then, yes, Being *seems* to be localized
    doug Sosa: that is the puzzle.
    doug Sosa: why does it "seem"?
    Pema Pera: when you watch a movie (a favorite analogy of mine) you can see enormous distance in a landscape
    Adams Rubble: Our senses can't perceive the larger entity
    Pema Pera: but it is all at the same place on the screen
    Pema Pera: the appearance of senses occur with the "larger" entity
    Pema Pera: that is also the smallest
    doug Sosa: very interesting. need to mull that. being is the screen?
    Pema Pera: Being is every point
    Pema Pera: completely
    Pema Pera: and also All
    Pema Pera: in the widest sense
    Pema Pera: perhaps we can go back to that sentence?
    Pema Pera: APAPB for short :)
    Pema Pera: *any* appearance is presented by Being
    doug Sosa: so by all we mean, not just "this Screen" bu all screens, all projectors, all viewwers, all movie makers?
    Pema Pera: everything -- without looking at it as things
    Pema Pera: All is a whole -- and All is completely there in every (seeming) part
    doug Sosa: so why does it still seem "local"?
    Pema Pera: that is part of a presentation, an appearance
    Pema Pera: anything can appear, also the sense of local
    Pema Pera: without being less fully Being
    Pema Pera: Being is not limited by its appearing local
    doug Sosa: got it. glad i asked.
    Pema Pera: but this is something to be explored
    Pema Pera: accepted only temporarily as a hypothesis to be tested
    Pema Pera: for example through the APAPB sentence
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm glad you asked, too, though i really really don't understand the answer.

    The best way to make APAPB a bit more clear, it seemed to me, was to let Doug say more about his experiences with the sentence.

    Pema Pera: would you mind saying a bit about what you have been doing with that sentence for the last few weeks, Doug?
    Pema Pera: perhaps that will help here
    Caledonia Heron: [please paste sentence for late laggard :)]
    Pema Pera: appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being -- sorry
    Caledonia Heron: ty
    doug Sosa: hm. This sentece is something to grow into, and out of, at the same time. The core for me (at the moment, my coffee still sitting there) is that being presents and this presentation manifests as appearance.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: actually...that makes the answer make more sense to me...thank you, Cal.
    doug Sosa: Ad this is amazing (appreciation).
    doug Sosa: and multi, infinitiely rich and complex.
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    doug Sosa: yet unitary.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: (unitary is key!)
    doug Sosa: and so the unity of being and the multiplicity of appearnaces kind of oscillate i experience.
    Pema Pera: yes, and perhaps they can even be present fully, simultaneously
    doug Sosa: the sentence forces me to be less active and the presentations to be more active.
    doug Sosa: I shift from constructing to receiving.
    Pema Pera: I'm really glad to hear that, Doug! Would you like to mention how we got started on this sentence, four weeks ago?
    doug Sosa: well, i am not sure. we were sitting having the coffee i still havent started to drink this morning, and you said, "what about..." and we were off. But that is only my hasy memory
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: the trigger was the session that you and Maxine and I had had, just before that
    Pema Pera: in which I had mentioned that I appreciated the psychological angles within the relative language
    Pema Pera: but that I also wanted to point out the completely different absolute language
    Adams Rubble 's head spins at thought of "what about..."
    Pema Pera: and then during that session we first started to talk about how you could go from relative to absolute, and I said you couldn't . . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . and in the coffeeshop in RL we tried to wrap our mind about that
    Pema Pera: and then I suggested the sentence as a way to jump from relative to absolute
    Pema Pera: (relatively speaking , hehe)
    Pema Pera: yes, Adams?
    Adams Rubble knew that was coming :)
    Adams Rubble: It was wonderful
    Pema Pera: don't have to add anything, if you don't like too, of course :)
    Adams Rubble: Like Doug I have a head of hazy but wonderful recollections

    Cal brought in the relatives.

    Caledonia Heron: [relatively speaking, that's when you talk to your aunt or uncle, right? :)]
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: haha, those relatives . . . .
    Pema Pera: [absolutely speaking there is no difference between relative and absolute]
    Caledonia Heron: [wonder if we should drink absolute vodka]
    doug Sosa: so i ned to ask, does "being" have heideggerian overtones, history?
    Pema Pera: [on the rocks?]
    doug Sosa: I am now drinkingmy coff.
    doug Sosa: coffee.
    Pema Pera: Being as such has no tones :-)
    Pema Pera: but allows all tones
    Pema Pera: and yes, Heidegger had some intuition
    Pema Pera: far more than most; he was one of the few philosophers in Europe who had some sense of the question of Being
    Pema Pera: Spinoza had too, and Husserl
    Pema Pera: So if I may add one more thing, before getting quiet :-)
    doug Sosa: :)
    Pema Pera: I would suggest that if any of you like to try this jump from relative to absolute, please do "taste" this APAPB sentence -- and feel free to ask me more if you like
    Pema Pera: in a session, or by email or by IM
    Pema Pera: or RL -- Tokyo has wonderful coffeeshops!
    doug Sosa: the sentence is very helpful, moves beyond being seen by being. But they are deeply related.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    doug Sosa: I now go :)
    Pema Pera: :-)

    Doug left again like greased lightning, and the others didn't succeed to send their greetings along.

    Caledonia Heron: bye Doug :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Doug
    Pema Pera: not fast enough :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: argh
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: nope, yet he will read it and get well wishes from the past
    Adams Rubble: Nah
    Pema Pera: :>)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah! very nice..but does Doug read back?
    Adams Rubble: Not at all, so he says
    Pema Pera: it seems he wishes no wishes . . . .
    Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
    Pema Pera: hi Wol!
    Wol Euler: good morning everyone, sorry I'm late.
    Adams Rubble: never late :)
    Caledonia Heron: hi Wol :)
    Adams Rubble: early for the next one :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: or that.

    Wol dropped by, with a group's label "I deserve happiness".

    Caledonia Heron: I read your label Wol. May I know why you put that?
    Wol Euler: um, it's a kind of mantra or reminder.
    Wol Euler: I was being interviewed by a friend who is a sociologist studying SL. I got somewhat teary in the course of hte discussion
    Wol Euler: and she made the tag for me.
    Wol Euler: It may not correlate with the practice of Being ... but I found it helpful.
    Caledonia Heron: sure, thanks :)
    Caledonia Heron: to fill you in Wol, the main thread of the discussion before you arrived centered around the statement "appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being"
    Wol Euler: ah, yes, I read that in a log recently. A nice idea.
    Caledonia Heron: ah, ok ... needless backtracking, sorry
    Wol Euler: sourry to interrupt, please continue.
    Caledonia Heron: we're kind of sitting with it atm
    Pema Pera was afraid he had used up his quota of verbiage for today . . . :)
    Adams Rubble just reading back
    Adams Rubble: I was struck by something Doug said
    Caledonia Heron: I think you get double rations Pema :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Adams Rubble: To paraphrase that the exercise had him receiving rather than constructing
    Adams Rubble: as one who does a fair amount of constructing
    Adams Rubble: I found that interesting
    Pema Pera: yes, it seemed to really work for him, I was very pleased to hear that

    A new metaphor suddenly came to me.

    Pema Pera: The APAPB sentence is a kind of lozenge
    Pema Pera: put it under your tongue
    Pema Pera: let it melt
    Pema Pera: not so much a mantra
    Pema Pera: more something to let seep in
    Pema Pera: dissolve all else
    Adams Rubble: Constructing can lead one to some insights but it can be a distracting process
    IM: Adelene Dawner: The email I just now sent you - I composed it last night, before this meeting. The APAPB is a very good idea.
    Adams Rubble: I never know when I am finding my way toward an insight or just clouding things over
    Caledonia Heron: hmm, dissolving, reducing to being is all
    IM: Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pema Pera: either way is equally fine, Adams, really
    Pema Pera: since what happens to you is totally irrelevant
    Pema Pera: when the you dissolves, there is freedom
    Pema Pera: so don't worry be happy
    Pema Pera: with Wol
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Wol Euler: :-)
    Caledonia Heron: freedom from you
    Pema Pera: yes, and reducing as Being
    Pema Pera: seeing as Being
    Pema Pera: but only Being can seeing all as BEing
    Pema Pera: *Being
    Adams Rubble thinks about more playing
    Pema Pera thinking about putting a box of APAPB lozenges on the table . . . .
    Wol Euler: we could make a dispenser...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: a PEZ dispenser!
    Pema Pera: (^_^)
    Pema Pera: ?
    Pema Pera: Play Easy?

    I had no idea what PEZ could mean.

    Adams Rubble: yes
    Wol Euler: you'll need to give footnotes, Corvi, Pema grew up in Holland.
    Adams Rubble: oh
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: pez is euro
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs...I can't! PEZ....must be seen to be understood.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Pema Pera: ??
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: Pez is a brand name for a candy
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: candy dispensers with little cartoon heads on them?
    Caledonia Heron: pez- small candy in inventive dispenser
    Pema Pera appreciating the presence of pez in his mind's eye
    Pema Pera: his mind's tongue
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sorry.
    Wol Euler: the dispensers were distinctive, and in many types. kids collected and traded thtem.
    Pema Pera: learning something new every day!
    Caledonia Heron: let me ask a question to which there is likely no answer
    Caledonia Heron: if a someone is near death and clutching to "you" how do they get to Be?
    Pema Pera: best to start well before dying
    Pema Pera: like what we are doing here
    Caledonia Heron: well, yes, optimally ... but that is not an option for this person
    Pema Pera: I don't think there is a single answer, in general, Cal
    Caledonia Heron: agreed
    Pema Pera: I would say: be present yourself, as much as you can, open up to Being, adn be a conduit
    Caledonia Heron: yes, again, agreed
    Adams Rubble: We discussed situations similar to this at the 19:00 session last night
    Adelene Dawner: is there anyone who is not already Being, whether they know it or not?
    Caledonia Heron: no Adelene
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: No?
    Caledonia Heron: no there is not anyone who is not already Being
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
    Pema Pera: the appearance of persons is given by Being -- but since the persons are not real in the first place, the question is not really well posed, strictly speaking
    Caledonia Heron: ok, withdrawn
    Pema Pera: so I could argue yes and no without in either case being correct
    Pema Pera: but in either case it could be made correct
    Pema Pera: in the right context
    Pema Pera: like what Cal said:
    Pema Pera: yes, everyone has full access to it
    Pema Pera: because they are not persons and already Being
    Pema Pera: so in that way you can unwithdraw, Cal :)
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Adams Rubble: If it is posted, you may find last night's session helps with the question
    Caledonia Heron: ok thanks
    Pema Pera: looking forward to reading that!

    I could not stay longer, interesting as the topic of discussion was.

    Pema Pera: Alas, have to go cheer an astro meeting . . .
    Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
    Pema Pera: can someone else keep the rest of the log? I'm the guardian for today
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!
    Wol Euler: bye pema, take care.
    Pema Pera: great talking with you
    Adams Rubble: bye. Glad too, if we go on
    Wol Euler: and little flags.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!!!!
    Pema Pera: and thank you for letting me indulge in my favority candy, APAPB
    Corvuscorva Nightfire tosses him a dispenser.
    Adams Rubble: until you get some PEZ
    Wol Euler: bye cal
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: now I'm getting really curiouz . . . . .
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: with a small black cat on the top.
    Adams Rubble: bye Cal
    Caledonia Heron: bye everyone :)
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Cal!
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