2009.08.28 01:00 - The retreaters are asleep

Wol Euler was guardian for this session, just Bertrum and myself.

Bertrum Quan: good morning Wol
Wol Euler: hello bert, nice hat.
Bertrum Quan: Cobalt blue
Wol Euler grins and nods
Wol Euler: very blue
Bertrum Quan: How are you this morning?
Wol Euler: pretty well, actuallly, in a quiet mood
Wol Euler: and yourself?
Bertrum Quan: Same as you.
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: the Zeitgeist in action.
Bertrum Quan: Indeed.

The topic arrives.

Wol Euler: the retreaters are asleep, their last day starts in five hours
Wol Euler: (I assume they are asleep, perhaps they're drinking Jack Daniels and listening to the Grateful Dead)
Bertrum Quan: or both.
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: what a great step forward in life-efficiency that would be.
Bertrum Quan: and for a retreat, that would have them see each other coming and going.
Bertrum Quan: the word retreat is a funny one sometimes...
Wol Euler: mmm?
Bertrum Quan: suggests backward motion...
Wol Euler: mmhmmm
Wol Euler: depends on which direction you look, I suppose.
Wol Euler: the word does privilege the direction "forwards", but what does that mean?
Wol Euler: mundane working life, bills and TV and the same old same old.

--BELL--

Wol Euler: hello nymf

Nymf joins us.

Nymf Hathaway: Hello you two :) thanks Bertrum :)
Bertrum Quan: we're playing with the notion of the word retreat...
Bertrum Quan: and the vantage points of forward and backward motion

Nymf vanishes.

Wol Euler: that scared her off!
Bertrum Quan: perhaps not... it's not very scary...
Wol Euler: :)
Bertrum Quan: it's interesting though... to me at least... the meanings of retreat.
Wol Euler: please continue :)
Bertrum Quan: retreat, is to withdraw, to get away from, to move backwards... it can suggest defeat (tactical or strategic).
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: Napoleon and Moscow, and all that.
Wol Euler: perhaps we should call it a "consolidation" instead...
Bertrum Quan: depends on the "it."
Wol Euler: specifically in the context of meditational or other Retreating
Bertrum Quan: Yes, in that case, consolidation, is better--especially because it suggests a sense of oneness or wholeness.
Wol Euler: which is (for me at least) a large part of the purpose of the whole thing
Bertrum Quan: I agree.
Bertrum Quan: The word retreat... suggests in some ways the opposite.
Wol Euler: perhaps use a capital R for our sense, and a lowercase r for the military/defeat sense?
Bertrum Quan: I like your substitution better-- consolidation...
Bertrum Quan: But the sense of disparities in the word is very appropriate also
Wol Euler: agreed, it is appropriate to say "here" and "there", but I question the implication of inadequacy or failure in the common use

--BELL--

Bertrum Quan: exactly.
Bertrum Quan: The word retreat is also associated with a temporary change in venue ... and in that sense a vantage point from which to regain and or gain (in)sight.
Wol Euler nods.

Must a retreat be a "place"?

Bertrum Quan: Do you think the physical change is necessary to create that awareness?
Wol Euler: necessary, no; but it sure helps. Leaving the habitual and well-known behind (losing distractions) is a very strong helper IMHO
Wol Euler: which is part of the reason why people go to conferences :)
Wol Euler: so maybe it's not absolutely necessary, but it is relatively necessary.
Wol Euler: (changing my mind.)
Bertrum Quan: That's a phrase I like too--the idea of changing one's mind.
Bertrum Quan: That's where the change matters.
Wol Euler: Franz Josef Strauss said "The skull is round so that your thoughts can change direction."
Bertrum Quan: Great quote. I hadn't read that one before.
Wol Euler: he's not widely known. He was a German (Bavarian) politician of the old school, post-war reconstruction
Wol Euler: a right-winger, but an honest and decent one.

Is SL itself a "retreat"?

Bertrum Quan: Do you see SL as a kind of "retreat?"
Wol Euler: not really, no.
Wol Euler: I'd rather say that it is at right angles to the other stuff :)
Wol Euler: not yes/no
Bertrum Quan: It does carry with it a temporary change in venue (and perhaps a temporary change in some of the "rules")
Wol Euler: actually, yes, I was just thinking that. It has many of the attributes of Retreats.
Wol Euler: the inward focus, the other-place-ness.
Wol Euler: the social concentration among people of like minds
Wol Euler: perhaps we need a bigger word, to include Retreats and SL
Bertrum Quan: what would that bigger word be?

--BELL--

Wol Euler: a kind of super-category, or an adjective perhaps, to elucidate the similarity that binds them.
Wol Euler: because they don't include each other.
Wol Euler: Retreats are not SL, but they are a step out of normal RL
Wol Euler: SL is not a retreat, but it is a step to the side of RL
Wol Euler: oh, sorry, my time is up. I need to get to work :(
Wol Euler: we'll continue this another day?
Bertrum Quan: Yes, that would be fun to find that word. Back to RL--Hope your Friday is productive and inspiring!
Wol Euler: goodnight, and thank you :)
Wol Euler: take care, bert
Bertrum Quan: You too, Wol.