2010.06.04 19:00 - Back to Basics: the 9 sec Break

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: Hi Kiki, good to see you again!
Kiki Walpanheim: Hi Pema, good to see you again too!
Pema Pera: please feel free to sit in the inner circle, Kiki :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Zaldaan!
Zaldaan Sirnah: hi :)
Kiki Walpanheim: Oh....I see...thank you ;-)
Kiki Walpanheim: Hi zadaan
Pema Pera: You have been here before, I believe, Zaldaan?
Zaldaan Sirnah: these are the two sitting positions I sit in normally -- it's unbalanced
Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm trying to sit with my legs to the other side sometime
Zaldaan Sirnah: Yes, Pema :)
Pema Pera: ah, you can click on your cushion
Pema Pera: yes, like that
Zaldaan Sirnah: Yes, like I said -- these are the two positions :)
Zaldaan Sirnah: no legs to the right
Pema Pera: you prefer a different position?
Pema Pera: if you sit on a brown cushion, you will sit in seiza, like me right now
Zaldaan Sirnah: I am getting imbalance in my hip joints, so it feels awkward to have my legs to the right, same as this one, but to the right
Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm talking about RL :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Kiki Walpanheim: heh heh

I announced the new wiki URL:

Pema Pera: Kiki and Zaldaan, Play as Being has a new wiki, as of today: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
Pema Pera: the old wiki can still be seen, but will no longer be updated
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Kiki Walpanheim: ty
Pema Pera: the reason is that we got the old wiki for free, two years ago, but now they are going to charge a few thousand dollars a year
Pema Pera: so we said "no thanks"
Kiki Walpanheim: wow
Pema Pera: and got our own server instead
Pema Pera: so now we have complete control (for only $60/month, a lot less)
Kiki Walpanheim: and the domain name is much cooler...the new one i mean
Pema Pera: yes!
Kiki Walpanheim: ;-)
Pema Pera: the old one was forced upon is, the ending I mean, because of using the old company
Pema Pera: but having our own server, and using purely open source software, gives us complete freedom
Kiki Walpanheim: nods
Pema Pera: Fael has done most of the transfer, and Calvino has done a lot of work setting up the new site; Wol also has been very active with the automatic recording system, etc
Pema Pera: Hi Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone
Kiki Walpanheim: Hi Bleu
Kiki Walpanheim: oh good
Pema Pera: It's great to have such dedicated and technically competent folks among us to help us out!
Kiki Walpanheim: nods
Bleu Oleander: very nice!
Pema Pera: Hi Bleu, we're talking about the new wiki, http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
Bleu Oleander: yes
Kiki Walpanheim: brb
Pema Pera: and now the name is much more memorable than the old one :)
Bleu Oleander: so it's up and running?
Pema Pera: yes!
Pema Pera: and the old site is now read only
Bleu Oleander: that's great
Pema Pera: so cannot be updated further, which is good
Pema Pera: all the new stuff will go to the new site
Bleu Oleander: seems like it wasn't too painful
Pema Pera: I'm impressed that everything was updated and transfered all in one day
Pema Pera: Fael has done a great job in that
Bleu Oleander: yes
Pema Pera: wb Kiki!
Kiki Walpanheim: thank you

Bleu mentioned her new initiative, Being in Time (see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Art/Being_in_Time;_Being_as_Time)

Bleu Oleander: already some nice photos in the village :)
Pema Pera: ah, a different appearance, Kiki! Was the other skirt too long? It was moving in a very pretty way!
Kiki Walpanheim: oh thank you
Pema Pera: ah yes, Bleu, when will we have our exhibition day?
Bleu Oleander: people will install their photos during next week
Bleu Oleander: then we'll have to set up a special session to talk about them
Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm afk you guys.. got a call and have to get ready to go out..
Pema Pera: bfn, Zaldaan!
--BELL--
Pema Pera: Nice outfit, Bleu -- somehow strikes me as a cross between Arizona and New York City :)
Pema Pera: the black of NYC and the spirit of more Native American inspired
Bleu Oleander: yes, funny how that happens! ty!
Pema Pera: hi Lucinda!
Bleu Oleander: hi Lucinda
Kiki Walpanheim: I just feel this one more convenient...because it is not a formal ball....
Kiki Walpanheim: hi lucinda
Pema Pera: :-) PaB is anything but formal
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Pema, Bleu, Zaldan, KiKi
Kiki Walpanheim: is pab an avatar?
Pema Pera: PaB is short for Play as Being, the name of our group
Kiki Walpanheim: oh...
Pema Pera: sorry, getting used to the acronym
Pema Pera: have you gotten a chance to look at bit at our web site, Kiki?
Kiki Walpanheim: yes
Kiki Walpanheim: the discussions are logged
Bleu Oleander: I haven't been able to get on the new wiki
Kiki Walpanheim: and there is some induction at the front page
Kiki Walpanheim: but i think i need to look up a bit more ;-)
Pema Pera: yes, faaaar to much material to all read, thousands of sessions :-)
Kiki Walpanheim: ;-)
Lucinda Lavender: I do not have a new password yet...but I can view the new one.
Pema Pera: it might be better to start with the excerpts or other places, scribe essays for example
Pema Pera: I'm sure Fael will send you one soon, Lucinda
Lucinda Lavender: I thought so..
Pema Pera: your name may not yet have percolated to all the data bases :)
Lucinda Lavender: ah
Pema Pera: a good opportunity to change that too, and to make you completely up-to-date there
Lucinda Lavender: yes

Since this was only the second time that I had seen Kiki here, I asked her about the PaB explorations.

Pema Pera: Kiki, if I may ask, have you had a change to try the 9-seconds breaks, a few times an hour, for a while?
Kiki Walpanheim: 9-seconds breaks?
Pema Pera: ah, that's what we like to do in RL
Kiki Walpanheim: I don't think so....I did take break sometimes...but probably that is not the type of break you mentioned...
Kiki Walpanheim: oh?
Pema Pera: the idea is to take a break roughly once every 15 minutes
Pema Pera: for 9 seconds
Kiki Walpanheim: what do I do in the 9 seconds?
Pema Pera: without very precise instructions
Kiki Walpanheim: just ..relax...and contemplate?
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Pema Pera: other than "drop what you have to see what you are"
Pema Pera: and everybody fills that in in different ways
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Pema Pera: and the same person tries many different ways
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Pema Pera: the 9 sec, btw, is more like a kind of pun :)
Kiki Walpanheim: pun?
Pema Pera: there are 900 seconds in 15 mnutes, so it is like a 1% time tax
Pema Pera: 99% of the time you focus on whatever you're doing
Kiki Walpanheim: oh.... i see
Pema Pera: and 1% you give yourself a break, literally
Kiki Walpanheim nods
Pema Pera: no need to do it around the clock, although some people do
Lucinda Lavender: Lucinda is enjoying hearing about this...today
Pema Pera: but just a few hours a day, say 3 hours, 12 breaks, makes a lot of difference already
Kiki Walpanheim: so....does that mean I dont need to follow exactly ...as 9 seconds in 15 mins...but should know it is a pun also...
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Kiki Walpanheim: i see

. . . and I always like to add the "no excuses" trailer . . .

Pema Pera: it takes only one and a half minutes, about the time to brush your teeth, so nobody can say they don't have time to do it -- only "I'm not interested in even trying" :-)
Kiki Walpanheim: heh heh
Pema Pera: either way, Kiki: some people find it easier to set a clock, on a computer or iphone or whatever
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Pema Pera: so that they dont' have to think about it
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Bleu Oleander: it's quite nice and I've incorporated it into my routines
Pema Pera: other people are happy to just take a few breaks a few times an hour
Pema Pera: either way is fine
Kiki Walpanheim: nods
Kiki Walpanheim: good idea
Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Bleu, can you tell us a bit about how that has changed your day-to-day life?
Kiki Walpanheim: a break helps the mind to stay focused when it is working
Pema Pera: yes!
Bleu Oleander: it's wonderful to give myself permission to take a break
Bleu Oleander: was hard at first to remember to do it
Pema Pera: yes, took me quite a while too, initially!
Bleu Oleander: but now I wonder how I got through the day without it .... :)
Pema Pera: (^_^)
Bleu Oleander: seems a necessary component
Pema Pera: and btw, Kiki, our breaks in SL are 90 seconds, super-breaks compared to the 9-sec breaks throughout the day in RL -- so in SL we take a 10% time tax, and spend that time to just be here together, being rather than talking :)
Kiki Walpanheim: Also...there is an issue on balancing how much time is spent on serious work, how much time is spent on interest, exploring, and creativity too...perhaps
Kiki Walpanheim: nods
Pema Pera: yes, the tax may give you a lot of interest :-)
--BELL--

I realized that the core information might not be so easily findable on the main PaB site, so I provided the specific URL.

Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Information/Hints gives more background
Pema Pera: (you get there from the very first clickable item on our home page, but perhaps we should highlight it better)
Kiki Walpanheim: I wasn't talking about personal finacial investment.....
Pema Pera: nono, sorry, just was flippant
Pema Pera: but there is a lot of "return" from short investments of "lookin up and away" for brief times
Kiki Walpanheim: no worries...i know....
Kiki Walpanheim: ;-)
Kiki Walpanheim: nods
Kiki Walpanheim is reading the hints from the link
Pema Pera: the other part of background for "Play as Being", PaB in short, is also on that link -- it's about Being
Pema Pera: normally we "play as person"
Pema Pera: you could say: the Universe is playing me, through me
Calvino Rabeni: Play as person ... maybe using a variety of different Masks
Pema Pera: and we can return the compliment by in turn "playing the Universe" or simply "playing as Being"
Pema Pera: yes, a whole lot of masks!
Pema Pera: so to sum up: our little group strives for the highest insight in the shortest time -- how's that for a little blurb :-) and all that very informally and playfully
Bleu Oleander: :)
Pema Pera: though many of us spend years and decades practicing very seriously, each in their own tradition
Bleu Oleander: need to say goodnight :) enjoyed the conversation ... bfn
Pema Pera: bye Bleu!
Kiki Walpanheim: night bleu
Kiki Walpanheim just finished reading the page
Lucinda Lavender: night bleu

Kiki seemed ready to try it out right away.

Pema Pera: what is your impression, Kiki?
Kiki Walpanheim: I do keep a journal or something for writing up my ideas
Kiki Walpanheim: I think I will follow the advice on the page and try
Pema Pera: great, I look forward to hearing your reports!
Pema Pera: In fact, many people tell us that already in the first day, it makes a noticeable difference
Kiki Walpanheim: oh
Pema Pera: if you happen to have time to come back here in 24 hours, well, 23 hours and a bit, I'd love to hear your first fresh impressions!
Kiki Walpanheim: ;-)
Pema Pera: (reports, as in a few sentences, I mean, nothing formal, not to worry :-)
Kiki Walpanheim: I think the difference is on how the break is spent....that is the part i like to try
Kiki Walpanheim: ;-)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: I don't want to prejudice you, Kiki, but surprisingly, the simple fact of taking a break in itself does seem to make a lot of difference already, then and there.
Kiki Walpanheim: And the way how the contemplation is carried...i do have a personal journal for my ideas popped up...
Pema Pera: but of course, after that, further practice and experimentation can deepen all that considerably, to no end . . . .
Kiki Walpanheim: and i do spend time on meditating...
Pema Pera: oh, that's a great thing to do, Kiki, using a journal that way; I find it very helpful myself
Kiki Walpanheim: nods at pema

Lucinda also got hooked, it seemed :-)

Lucinda Lavender: I now have 2 weeks off and am going to try some more breaks
Pema Pera: perhaps because of my scientific background, I like the notion of viewing my life as a lab -- and my journal as a lab note book :)
Kiki Walpanheim: ;-)
Pema Pera: Great, Lucinda, looking forward to hearing about your adventures, within and outside the 9-sec breaks :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Kiki Walpanheim: and i think it is a good idea to login sl after staring at the computer for papers, serious work too long
Kiki Walpanheim: well...tho it is still kinda staring at the computer screen still...
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: yes, can't have it all . . . .
Pema Pera: some of us do get together in RL -- we have PaB retreats, one every three months, for five days
Kiki Walpanheim: oh...good
Zaldaan Sirnah: nice site, Calvino set it up?
Pema Pera: in very different places in the world, like Malta in Europe and San Francisco, to mention the last two; and then Nova Scotia coming up in two months
Kiki Walpanheim: oh...good
Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Retreats
Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni says, "I inherited the site and help with it some times"
Calvino Rabeni: We expect to do a reorganization on that site pretty soon
Zaldaan Sirnah: when reading people tend to fix their gaze and blink less frequently
Zaldaan Sirnah: deliberate blinking is good
Zaldaan Sirnah: when staring we tend to fix our heads and body positions
Kiki Walpanheim: and the thing is...some ideas that pops up would give you some new perspective...and make you want to re arrange your schedule...
Pema Pera: definitely!
Zaldaan Sirnah: Pema, what's your [scientific] background?
Pema Pera: astrophysics

From stars to codes to stones to the game of go . . .

Pema Pera: specifically computational astrophysics -- simulations of stars and galaxies
Lucinda Lavender: And what is a Rubyist?
Pema Pera: but in addition I'm also running an interdisciplinary program, connecting scholars and scientists from many fields
Pema Pera: ha, someone who likes to code in Ruby, a computer language, my favorite one
Calvino Rabeni: I've often wondered, what could be described in "layman's terms" about now to solve the 1,000,000-body problem ?
Pema Pera: there is an SL group, hence my tag, but it is largely dormant,
Kiki Walpanheim: lol....lucinda...are you testing on him
Lucinda Lavender: I was picturing something more along the line of stones...
Kiki Walpanheim: oh...it is the tag...i see
Pema Pera: stones is more like this tag, just a moment
Zaldaan Sirnah: I considered Ruby coding but thought php might be much more suited for web programming because of its grotesque rogueness
Zaldaan Sirnah: but I'm already stuck using my own server side scripting system I developed back in 1998
Pema Pera: I'm not doing much web development, more simulations -- running and analyzing
Lucinda Lavender: grotesque rogueness is a term I shall ponder
Pema Pera: do you know the game of go, Lucinda?
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: not really at all!
Lucinda Lavender: tho I have seen the stones
Kiki Walpanheim: I have found Pab relaxing...and it is nice
Pema Pera: (and Calvino, solving the gravitational million-body problem implies sprinkling a million stars into (cyber)space and letting them all interact with each other simultaneously, something that required a Petaflops of power, at least, which is just about be coming available; see also http://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~douglas/gmbp/gmbp.html)
Zaldaan Sirnah: broken link
Calvino Rabeni: THrough "brute force" or "clever optimization" ?
Pema Pera: I love the game of go, dropping the complex worlds around us, RL or SL, and focusing for an our just on a 19 by 19 lines world with black and one stones, very peaceful
Pema Pera: (not broken for me, Zaldaan)
Lucinda Lavender: For me, rubyist /stones and go /stones were not cosciously connected
Calvino Rabeni: And just slightly complex then :)
Pema Pera: and there there is the Ruby Tuesday song . . . :-)
Pema Pera: (which actually has a very inspiring song text)
Zaldaan Sirnah: People need to work on their definitions of themselves, including in their guidelines the noble qualities of the human. In an MIT lecture on electrical engineering the teacher points out a famous definition -- something to the effect of "Designing with a purpose"

Zaldaan then continues by making an interesting connection with Sufism.

Zaldaan Sirnah: Yet I have learned through a particular school of Sufism that it is better for people to establish these definitions differently; for example, the present teacher wrote that scientists study such and such for the purpose of improving the lives and environment of mankind.
Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm paraphrasing inaccurately.
Pema Pera: what kind of Sufi practice do you do, Zaldaan?
Kiki Walpanheim: science and technology are the keys for economic growth too
Kiki Walpanheim: but as a scientist you dont have to think that much ;-) perhaps
Zaldaan Sirnah: Sufism the reality of religion? :)
Zaldaan Sirnah: that's the school I was introduced to many years ago
Zaldaan Sirnah: www.mto.org
Zaldaan Sirnah: Kiki, economic growth for what purpose?
Pema Pera: you have to sign something simply to read that site, Zaldaan? That's a bit odd . . . .
Kiki Walpanheim: because loads of fundamental work on that can not be too much market oriented...that perverts the idea
Zaldaan Sirnah: Well, I have to head out.. someone waiting to meet with me.
Pema Pera: bye Zaldaan!
Kiki Walpanheim: for better life
Kiki Walpanheim: and our better understanding of everything
Calvino Rabeni: I thought I had the sufi influence in what you said earlier
Zaldaan Sirnah: Pema, yes. I'm not qualified to summarize, perhaps, but basically it protects the site and visitors from people with bad intent (you agree not to damage it, etc.), since it is a global school and thus not only protective U.S., European, etc. laws apply.
Zaldaan Sirnah: It also says try not to hurt yourself if you practice some of the meditative movement, like you might find on www.tamarkoz.org :)
Pema Pera: that certainy is good advice!
Zaldaan Sirnah: well, it says you won't hold the school responsible -- although they put very delicate gentle movements online.
Pema Pera: ah, yes, that is always a concern, I can see that
Pema Pera: thanks for explaining!
Pema Pera: and yes, Kiki, science and technology can go two ways, can be a blessing and a curse
Kiki Walpanheim: nods....
Calvino Rabeni: So can information
Pema Pera: or life :)
Pema Pera: well, I have to head out too -- nice meeting you, Zaldaan, and nice seeing you all again!
Kiki Walpanheim: personally i think information never does bad things on people
Zaldaan Sirnah: The contract wasn't always there. It was finally placed there a couple years ago.
Kiki Walpanheim: see you pema
Pema Pera: bfn

I'm taking off at this point, so I'll leave the rest of the session uncommented.

Zaldaan Sirnah: Take care :)
Lucinda Lavender: Nice to hear this conversation...
Calvino Rabeni: Information is like food in that regard, Kiki
Zaldaan Sirnah: Kiki, people do bad things with information.
Calvino Rabeni: Too much, not the right kind / balance, and ... nourishment of the mind is not healthy
Zaldaan Sirnah: Or, animals do, or something.
Zaldaan Sirnah: Einstein not only discovered but also revealed what people might do with information.
Zaldaan Sirnah: If we can't see it from every other example
--BELL--
Kiki Walpanheim: Einstein also helped the nukes to emerge indirectly....
Kiki Walpanheim: what did he discover on how ppl might do with info.?
Zaldaan Sirnah: what you said
Zaldaan Sirnah: He didn't make it, he provided the information
Zaldaan Sirnah: and regretted it
Kiki Walpanheim: oh....
Zaldaan Sirnah: ie. the famous quote .. it is clear that our technology has exceeded our humanity
Zaldaan Sirnah: no matter.. but it's a concern I frequently return to regarding information release, either prematurely or appropriate information, like what Calvino said.
Kiki Walpanheim: so maybe censorship is necessary sometimes...
Kiki Walpanheim: i dont know
Zaldaan Sirnah: I don't think the people who would handle the censorship would be suited to make the decision
Zaldaan Sirnah: no.. probably life just has its way, and hopefully handles the mistakes along the way.
Zaldaan Sirnah: so we get to see nukes, and the warning.
Zaldaan Sirnah: but there are such beautiful discoveries to be made, and they will be more readily available when people purify their intent
Kiki Walpanheim: it is tragic that for some people who dedicated the whole life selfishlessly in some career later might find what s/he was craving for was completely wrong
Kiki Walpanheim: well....not einstein....but some other figures...
Zaldaan Sirnah: example?
Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm interested in that -- I've seen people do that.. professors.. other researchers
Zaldaan Sirnah: many scientific theories and principles..
Kiki Walpanheim: and gurus for ideologies...religions...
Kiki Walpanheim: even philosophers....
Zaldaan Sirnah: yeah.. interesting
Zaldaan Sirnah: I have to tear myself away, getting late now!
Zaldaan Sirnah: Nice talking to you guys, take care.
Kiki Walpanheim: tc
Kiki Walpanheim: night
Calvino Rabeni: FLy well then
Lucinda Lavender: nice to meet you Zaldaan, an interesting conversaion
Calvino Rabeni: I missed the start of this meeting - did Zaldaan give consent for his comments to be put on the Wiki?
Lucinda Lavender: I will go too. Nice to nave this connection...
Lucinda Lavender: bye for now all
Kiki Walpanheim: i need to scroll back...
Calvino Rabeni: Bye then, Lucinda and Kiki?
Calvino Rabeni: !
Kiki Walpanheim: but if you have the whole conversation to be posted you shall be able to read if he agreed
Kiki Walpanheim: bye folks...
Lucinda Lavender: bye Cal...Kiki
Calvino Rabeni: Kiki, you remind me of a movie "Kiki's Delivery Service"
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Lucinda
Kiki Walpanheim: oh? didnt know that...would check it...
Calvino Rabeni: It is animated, about the adventures of a young witch
Kiki Walpanheim: interesting
Lucinda Lavender: I would like that...
Kiki Walpanheim: ;-)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Kiki Walpanheim: nice talking to you
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Likewise, take care Kiki :)
Kiki Walpanheim: take care, cal and lucinda
Calvino Rabeni: BFN