2010.06.11 07:00 - Generous Pushing

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza who was joined by SophiaSharon, Eden, Zaldaan (for 'real'), Zen, and Lucinda.

I would characterize this as a quirky-but-interesting session, which highlights the relative vs. absolute question we eventually touch on, after discussing ideas of time, motion, awareness, dreams, and wu wei. 

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: hi Sharon :)) Nice to see you
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too! :)
Eliza Madrigal: >gasp< .... transformation taking place before my eyes
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: OH, how pretty... very elegant hair... gentle :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: still not rezzed for me
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I lose the 'feel' of SL and find myself retreating into being 'in my head', but everyone's changing clothes often draws me into the 'experience' of SL again...
Eliza Madrigal: Speaking of which, I love when you're in pink Eden :) Hi :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: I mainly live in my head, so it's kind of hard to relate :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh Eden beautiful ^^
Eden Haiku: Hi, good morning Eliza and Shophia Sharon :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe @shophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: cant deny it
Eliza Madrigal: hahahahhah!!!
Eliza Madrigal: What a perfect typo
Eden Haiku: Beautiful kimonos ladies!
SophiaSharon Larnia: ty :)
Eden Haiku: smiles at her own typo...
Eliza Madrigal: Its funny, but I consider SL an 'outgoing' thing to do ... surely more social and 'out of my head' than the reading and such I do a lot...
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Zaldaan
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zaldaan
Eden Haiku: Oh yes, beacuse we interact in here. In PaB at least ;)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Eliza SL is an interactive experience
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting tag 'Real.'
SophiaSharon Larnia: very
Eliza Madrigal: :)

After a few sessions of Zaldaan's alt being present without greetings or participation, Eden and I are curious...

Eden Haiku: HI Zaldaan. Nice to see you can talk ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Not sure.... he's in the fountain exuding hearts for me... not talking yet...?
Eden Haiku: Oh, I thought I saw some text on the bubble over his head.
Eliza Madrigal: like someone who has appeared from the fountain to tell us something from the underworld.... heheh
Eden Haiku: But it was SophiaSharon line about SL experience...

--BELL--
 

Zaldaan fills in a few details...

SophiaSharon Larnia: the choice can be to intereact in your own head, if you like, it has that flavor
Eden Haiku: What is the point in coming in the pavilion if you don't participate Zaldaan?
SophiaSharon Larnia: silence is always ok
Zaldaan Sirnah: I assure you it was not to cause negativity.
Eden Haiku: May I know why then?
Eliza Madrigal: I guess we're getting curious to have you with us a few times without seeming to be here, no worries
Zaldaan Sirnah: You just have not seen me participate.
SophiaSharon Larnia: imho, what you do here is right for you
SophiaSharon Larnia: its not for me to say
Zaldaan Sirnah: I have spoken in Sophia's presence
SophiaSharon Larnia: unless your throwing fireballs at my avi head
SophiaSharon Larnia: and then ill have to go kung foo
SophiaSharon Larnia: :P
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I was here when you first came and chatted quite a bit...
Eliza Madrigal giggles @ Sharon
Eliza Madrigal: Hey, Zen :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Zen :)
Zaldaan Sirnah: I have many things to handle in my RL environment
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eden Haiku: I'm just wondering about these long sessions where you are just sitting here as a ghost,
Eliza Madrigal: Ah
Zen Arado: Hi all :)
Zaldaan Sirnah: as such it is not always possible to stand in the middle of the fountain for your entire discussion.
Eden Haiku: I understand, but why make the choice ton sit in here if you are so busy then?
Zaldaan Sirnah: perchance I may interact
Eden Haiku: Yes, I appreciate you are here now.
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, don't worry. Yaku often does the same thing, its just that we've gotten to know him....
Zaldaan Sirnah: Because you all have so much to offer
Eliza Madrigal: so know that he may even be asleep :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe you can even start leaving boxes around here too ^^ LOL
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Zaldaan :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah (@ Sharon)

Readers will have to decide if we did indeed find a topic...

Eliza Madrigal: Well shall we have a topic today??
Eliza Madrigal: How about the 9 seconds?
Zaldaan Sirnah: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oops there was one
SophiaSharon Larnia: and another ^^
Eliza Madrigal: :) I just wondered if Zaldaan had been introduced to the pauses 'formally/officially' :)))
SophiaSharon Larnia: I do like your tag Zaldaan, "Real."
Eliza Madrigal: We pause of course, here during sessions, but PaB started with an idea of stopping every fifteen minutes for 9 seconds... a time tax of sorts
Eliza Madrigal: and lately I've gotten away from it a little... so wondered about others
SophiaSharon Larnia: there are places and times its more prominent, but more often lately
Eliza Madrigal: yes?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive spoken so much on strings of moment, i'm sort of hesitant to bring it up again, but thats where it came from
SophiaSharon Larnia: moments*
Zaldaan Sirnah: strings of moment?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, but its fascinating Sharon... sharing may bring clarity

Now, and now, and now... Silly Strings of Moment...

SophiaSharon Larnia: every moment is now, then now, then now again
Zen Arado: yes what is it?
Zaldaan Sirnah: like, when you can't stop laughing and can't breathe?
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Zaldaan Sirnah: those would be silly strings of moment
Eliza Madrigal: :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats a moment or several!

Eliza Madrigal: Silly Strings of Moment! Indeed
Zen Arado: we create our moments though
Zen Arado: don't we ?
Eliza Madrigal: Well perhaps... Sometimes I feel to emerge from a moment...
SophiaSharon Larnia: and i wondered what the difference is between those moments, and all I could come up with so far is the experience between them
SophiaSharon Larnia: not the 'in between'
Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm not sure what you're noticing/asking
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats something else, but it isnt, so setting that aside, for the moment ^^
Zaldaan Sirnah: What is a moment?
SophiaSharon Larnia: right :)
Eliza Madrigal: Mmm, yes I was about to ask... "What is the experience between them"? a commonality?
Zaldaan Sirnah: I believe there are no "moments" -- there is only one moment.
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting
SophiaSharon Larnia: what makes them different
Zen Arado: there is only this moment
SophiaSharon Larnia: right
Zen Arado: only now
Zaldaan Sirnah: they are a presentation of the Infinite, "Now"
Eliza Madrigal: which isn't something we've 'got'
SophiaSharon Larnia: what is the perception of change
Zaldaan Sirnah: Probably it is motion
Zen Arado: we need to be 'one with now' as Tolle says
Zaldaan Sirnah:

"The definition of existence is, motion from motion in motion." -- Molana Shahmaghsoud Sadegh Angha
Zaldaan Sirnah: but that is among many other lines of poetry
SophiaSharon Larnia: whats the perception of motion
Zaldaan Sirnah: first, what is motion?
SophiaSharon Larnia: right
Zen Arado: movement?
Eliza Madrigal: Funny to be looking at time again... as though we can see it... through the idea/projection/appearance of motion
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Eliza Madrigal: Thinking of Zen stories "mind moves, not wind"
Zen Arado: e - motion = from movement?
Zaldaan Sirnah: motion/movement -- same thing I believe
--BELL--

Zen Arado:

Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind.

One said, "The flag moves." The other said, "The wind moves."

They argued back and forth but could not agree.

Hui-neng, the sixth patriarch, said:

"Gentlemen! It is not the flag that moves. It is not the wind that moves. It is your mind that moves."

The two monks were struck with awe.
 

Eliza Madrigal: And then there is the phrase 'going through the motions...'
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, thanks Zen :) That's the one
Eliza Madrigal: So if in the 9 seconds we 'drop what we have to see what we are'... what might that mean in the context of a moment?
Zen Arado: we see how our mind is moving in the pause?
Eliza Madrigal: are we dropping 'going through the motions'?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, perhaps Zen... hm
SophiaSharon Larnia: motion stopped?
Zaldaan Sirnah: trying to be still
SophiaSharon Larnia: motion dropped
Zen Arado: just noticing is sufficient I think

Eliza Madrigal: perhaps, in a sense shifting into timeless time is the only way to see time 'moving'
Zen Arado: awareness
SophiaSharon Larnia: out of space abd tie
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and time*
Eliza Madrigal: Then seeing it, isn't 'we' seeing it... 'i' seeing...
SophiaSharon Larnia: lofty expectation eh?
Zen Arado: just seeing

Eliza Madrigal: Well maybe what we drop is the loftiness....?
Eliza Madrigal: the idea that the motions are what is real or relevant or special
 

Zen Arado: ha ha I feel very Zen today :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: will hit you all with a stick in a minute :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: good luck with that! Sharon knows kung fu
SophiaSharon Larnia: um er yea
Zen Arado: retracts statement hastily
Eliza Madrigal: hhehee
Zaldaan Sirnah: is it not amazing that two things exist, and you can place your hand in front of a distant object and it disappears from sight?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i know land tools ^^ giggles
SophiaSharon Larnia: but maybe i need to be hit with a stick once in a while, maybe not literally :)
Zen Arado: better not edit terrain here
Zaldaan Sirnah: no you need to be hit with a stick literally sometimes
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh noos Storm would not be happy
Zen Arado: keeps you awake
Eliza Madrigal: I've only recently learned why.... re the stick
Eliza Madrigal: awake yes, but also not 'comfortable' in meditation....
SophiaSharon Larnia: besides, I dont have those perms
Eliza Madrigal: either too tight or too loose.... you can be awake but not in awareness?

SophiaSharon Larnia: life hits me with a stick, I want to go to sleep
Zen Arado: have to stay open to life's blows
Eliza Madrigal: burrowing :)
Zen Arado: trying hard to do this
Eliza Madrigal: There are days I do that too
Zen Arado: open and vulnerable
Zen Arado: so hard to do
Eliza Madrigal: our 'trying' isnt going to help with those things... maybe to a small degree...
Zen Arado: needs some effort though?
Eliza Madrigal: but it is the other place... that 'dropped' place... awareness, where there comes a shift like reverberation into the other perhaps
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Lucinda :)
Eliza Madrigal: So, to use a biblical line... there is a 'labor' to enter into rest....
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :)
Zen Arado: hi Luci:)
Lucinda Lavender: :) Hi Everyone....
Eliza Madrigal: Well... just musing aloud, not meaning to sound teachy ;-))
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: that's a quirk I have
Eliza Madrigal: mommy brain

Doing and Allowing. So this is where we dipped into 'Relative and Absolute' perhaps. "Absolutely" we can allow. Relatively, we sure seem to do, and to need to do? Absolutely, we are infinitely patient and never irked by personalities. Relatively, we sharpen each other? :)

Zen Arado: I have difficulties lately with how much we have to 'do' and how much we allow the flow to happen through us
Eliza Madrigal: there's that balance issue... the 'both'
Eliza Madrigal: we're so used to going back from one to the other perhaps... like tennis
Lucinda Lavender: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and i think thats alright, we're 3d beings, living
Zen Arado: I fall back into old habits if I don't make an effort
Eliza Madrigal: indeed Sharon
Zen Arado: old patterns are so comfortable....
Eliza Madrigal: there's a phrase I've been musing on though... which seems to help...
Zaldaan Sirnah: There's so much, in this chapter, on motion...
Eliza Madrigal: 'beyond effort', so its not dropping effort, or somehow trying to manage it
SophiaSharon Larnia: living to experience motion
Eliza Madrigal: yes delighting in the motion because one 'can' get out of it
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't a cage
SophiaSharon Larnia: i suspect sometimes that motion is the point
Zen Arado: back to Wu Wei I guess
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods emphatically
Eliza Madrigal: but the point of focusing on wu wei is to enjoy/enhance/cultivate our lives... not visa versa ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: is it?
Eliza Madrigal: Or is that both as well?
Eliza Madrigal: Is it both and neither? :) hm... yes a very zen day
Eliza Madrigal: Zaldaan, which chapter?

SophiaSharon Larnia: wu wei being the experience of both?

Zen Arado: Mitsu's story last night was a kind of wu wei?
Eliza Madrigal nods... great story... feel free to share it Zen, Wok is pubic :))
Zen Arado: is it published yet?
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) That person who does that tends to be quiet punctual - hehe
Eliza Madrigal: quite, too

Zen shares a portion of yesterday's "Ways of Knowing" Workshop at Kira:

Zen Arado:

Mitsu Ishii: so one day I was practicing martial arts with my old teacher, Michael Thompson
: we were doing an exercise in which you sit down and try to push each other
: one person pushes into the other Mitsu Ishii: and the "goal" so to speak is to push the person over
: it's interesting because you really have to relax to be able to push effectively
: and to absorb the other person's push
: anyway, so I was doing this with my teacher
: it was like trying to push a brick wall
: so there I was, struggling and struggling to push him and he was just sitting there

Mitsu Ishii: so finally he leans over and says "be more generous"
Mitsu Ishii: and it was like a light bulb over my head
Mitsu Ishii: I realized the problem was I had been thinking of it in terms of a conflict, I'm trying to push him over / but instead, if I think of it as being generous with my energy, suddenly I felt a new reservoir of energy / and I could be generous with it
Gaya Ethaniel nods. Seeing the other as an enemy ...
Mitsu Ishii: so that worked a lot better. I always remember that moment

Zen Arado: so...just changing his thoughts gave him so much more energy
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: and the thought that pushing would be a generous thing is fascinating ...
Zen Arado: got him closer to 'the flow'?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, kind of flipped things inside out

Here Eden and Zen have topics which overlap a bit. Sometimes in a session it can be difficult for everyone to be/feel heard, and I hope that we can pick up on many of the themes that were about to arise from various directions, another 'time' ... 

Eden Haiku: Clearing her throat...
Zen Arado: wonder if that would help my muscular dystrophy :)
Zen Arado: conversation stopper :)
Eden Haiku: Playing as Zalddan for the last half hour or so, I noticed something...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm listening Zen :)
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm that's quite a thought itself, Zen. One day we might want to plan some sessions on mind/body/etc
Zen Arado: playing as Zaldaan ?
Zen Arado: oh
Eliza Madrigal noticed Eden quiet...
Eden Haiku: Being here without participating as he played a few times
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I could ever do that here... but might be worth trying....
Lucinda Lavender: LL is listening and thinking about flow...
Eden Haiku: Well, it is an interesting experiment yes.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I could do it pretty easily haha
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, flow
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think i have
Lucinda Lavender: noticing that I don't always know what playing is...
Eliza Madrigal: yes I think you've done that before Sharon... I really can't remember ever being able to...
Eliza Madrigal: especially on days when I say "I'm going to be quiet today"
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Zen Arado: Zaldaan isn't an alt of you Eden?
Zaldaan Sirnah: Chapter 35 of "Expansion and Contraction within Being (dahm)" by Molana Salaheddin Ali Nader Angha < <pir oveyssi=""/> >
Eliza Madrigal: AH, you did see my question. Thank you
Eden Haiku: Oh no, I don't play manipulative games Zen.
 

--BELL--
Zaldaan Sirnah: Zen, what kind of MD do you have?
Zen Arado: FSH
Zen Arado: fascio scapulo humeral
 

There seemed to be a pause and I didn't want to leave Lucinda's question dangling...

Eliza Madrigal: Lucinda, would you care to say more regarding: Lucinda Lavender: noticing that I don't always know what playing is...
Lucinda Lavender: ll is wondering if feelings block flow or if is just part of it?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah great question
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: 'flow' has a lot to do with body harmony too... circulating energy, even when we are limited in various ways
Zen Arado: sorry I have to go - I have RL friends ust arrived
Zen Arado: bye all
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Bye Zen. See you soon and enjoy friends :))
Zaldaan Sirnah: How advanced is it?
Zaldaan Sirnah: ttyl
Lucinda Lavender: I was wondering what playing was reffering to in this earlier use of the word..just recently...
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Zen!
Eliza Madrigal: Play has lots of layers, too.... like so many things we discuss
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Eliza Madrigal: Its fascinating to hear Pema talk about... our playing as Being playing as us
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Lucinda Lavender: I have a certain pathway that I am studying..
Lucinda Lavender: Fear, Trust, Flow...

Eden Haiku: Have to go now. have a nice day everyone!
Eliza Madrigal: btw, I had chills the other day when Connie talked about dream teachers, Lucinda... resonated strongly
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eden!
SophiaSharon Larnia: have fun
Lucinda Lavender: really
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eden! Nice to see you ((( ))))
Lucinda Lavender: bye Eden..:)
Eliza Madrigal: Sometime I'd like to hear what you learned being quiet here, Eden :)
Zaldaan Sirnah: Bye Eden :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what is a dream teacher?
Lucinda Lavender: I think Connie had these recurrent teachers that came into her dreams...for certain topics
SophiaSharon Larnia: ahh ok
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :) That's been part of own experience too.. a strong part. I can't remember the last time I felt what I felt hearing her talk about it so openly/fluidly
SophiaSharon Larnia: what was her idea on what these dream teachers, of what they were?
Lucinda Lavender: One book that describes her experience is called Dreams are Letters from the Soul
Lucinda Lavender: The characters...teachers...brought certain kinds of wisdom I guess you would call it.
SophiaSharon Larnia: from a higher self? (hesitant to ask that,as that may be a part of differing beleif systems)
Lucinda Lavender: I have not had this...but she was devoting all her time to sleep that her body was asking for.
Eliza Madrigal: <--was diagnosed with lupus many years ago, after a period of time of being out of bed no more than a few hrs a day...
Eliza Madrigal: changed my life, to sleep so much...
Lucinda Lavender: ah!
Lucinda Lavender: illenss has a way of breaking open the egoic shell!
Eliza Madrigal: I think I became stronger and stronger physically by learning to rest... even in sleeping. Funny to think that we can sleep hours of our days away, but might never really rest
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Lucinda Lavender: I think many who experience dreaming intensely have a special relationship with rest...
Eliza Madrigal: and so much concentration in sleep, it really can be like accessing another world/worlds/dimensions... hearing from a different 'places' (maybe minds?)

--BELL--
 

Eliza Madrigal: that said, I was happy to come back to health and yet continue to explore what I learned... holding it lightly not as a 'belief' system
Eliza Madrigal: (sorry bell, yes I was typing)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Zaldaan Sirnah: are you undergoing any particular treatment?
Zaldaan Sirnah: My uncle had two sisters diagnosed with lupus -- one found a medication worked wonders for her.
Eliza Madrigal: Just taking good care of myself now and being sensitive to my body :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I was medicated for a few years...
Eliza Madrigal: thankfully my bloodwork is clear now :)
Zaldaan Sirnah: what have you found you are sensitive to?
Eliza Madrigal: stress, sugar
Eliza Madrigal: heat
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean I don't have a wicked sweet tooth
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: :P
Eliza Madrigal: I try not to say no to anything... but to stay within limits :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, what Connie spoke of was illuminating
Lucinda Lavender: interesting..
Eliza Madrigal: she has real clarity about 'who' she is hearing from, whereas I often have not
Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: only sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: I got the impression that many of us are talking about the same 'thing' when we think about 'where' guidence comes from,etc...
Lucinda Lavender: well if you bring a dream with one of the characters I am imagining that there might be more information that will come out of the circle experience...
Eliza Madrigal: topography of the sub/unconscious... the collective... 'higher self' etc
Eliza Madrigal: if we arent married to our words and terms, there is a lot of overlap?
Lucinda Lavender: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: some may think it's something other, maybe, like god
Eliza Madrigal: Sure or gods
Eliza Madrigal: or god's messengers
Lucinda Lavender: I hear the word higher self and imaging that it is the spiritual living part of self
Eliza Madrigal: or friends from past lives... or, or...
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) yes
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods... yes I tend to think in meditative terms... insight in many forms
Lucinda Lavender: I try not to exclude but to allow the possibilities
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Lucinda Lavender: even when I have serious questions ...
Eliza Madrigal: Indeed!
Eliza Madrigal: flexibility
Lucinda Lavender: like how could the stars have a story...
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles @ Lucinda
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes
Lucinda Lavender: I am not an astrologer but have allowed myself to hear dreams through the lenses for the purpose of seeing more.
Lucinda Lavender: then dropping

Zaldaan Sirnah: To truly know something mustn't you become one with it?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm sure they do, although it may not be something 'we' can understand
Eliza Madrigal: right, pointers of pointers of pointers... and yes all to be dropped... which is I think the definition of holding lightly.
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting question Zaldaan... what do you think?

Zaldaan Sirnah: I think the harmony must be there -- the two must overlap. Not through dimensions, but without distance.
Eliza Madrigal: (what drops is perhaps the hold-er anyway?)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, without distance... yes...
Zaldaan Sirnah: the two must have one centrality
SophiaSharon Larnia: nonlocal being
Eliza Madrigal: if they do though, they do... mmm... absolute...
Eliza Madrigal: not something to become?
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs and thinks -- if it can be thought of, it's not absolute
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--
 

Eliza Madrigal: thoughts themselves are the appearance of distance/movement/reflections/projections... ?
Eliza Madrigal: like my thought right now "I am hungry" :)))
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive been using that word a bit lately 'absolutely!' like I know what that means
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: I want to go look at the art thingy and then have some stuff to do too :)
Eliza Madrigal: well, yes... like where does 'insight' come from.... not quite the same as 'thought'...
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I want to check the square too... then raid the cabinets :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: it can follow thought
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: Want to follow us over zaldaan?
Eliza Madrigal: see what guardians are working on?
Zaldaan Sirnah: in sim?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: yup

Here Lucinda, Sharon, Zaldaan, and I head over to the Village Square, in which there are quite a few photos of time displayed! We continue our talk in the circle there... self-care, diets, food, oatmeal dreams ...