2010.06.27 08:00 - Guardian Session: Balancing on the Logs

 There were 12 guardians present for this session: Adams, Bleu, Calvino, Cosmicflower, Eden, Eliza, Eos, Lucinda, Maxine, Qt, Stevenaia, & Yakuzza.   -Eliza

In this session we discussed issues raised in email, concerning how we record sessions, when we record sessions, and why we record sessions. We discussed the desire to continue to branch out into many different types of sessions and times, and to address the questions about recording, often brought by visitors.

Lucinda Lavender: HI
Maxine Walden: hi, Lucinda
Eden Haiku: Maxine has an interesting expression on her face :-)
Maxine Walden: oh?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh!
Eden Haiku: Am I the only one seeing her face purple and orange?
Maxine Walden: ah, not sure how that happened, the lines of color
Eliza Madrigal: No... really nice....!! zoomed in
Eden Haiku: Looks nice :)
Maxine Walden: ah, maybe I am changing in ways I am unsure of :)

Eliza Madrigal: slippery slope....
Maxine Walden: ah, might be...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi! Cosmicflower! Our newest guardian!!
Maxine Walden: hello Cosmicflower
Eliza Madrigal: So nice that you could make it today Cosmic. Welcome :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello to All <3<3<3
Calvino Rabeni: Welcome Cosmicflower :))
Eden Haiku: ∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑∑Welcome CosmicFlower, nice to see you :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thanks, smiling ;)
Bleu Oleander: Welcome ((( Cos )))
Calvino Rabeni: This is the Village Hall , where the guardian session meets
Eden Haiku: You look very elegant CosmicFlower!
Eliza Madrigal: yes, a nice session to attend to be able to connect with guardians who tend to come at other times than you're able to
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thanks Dear ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Ok Cal, I will make lm here too ;)
Martie Georgia is Offline
Eliza Madrigal: We have topics today, but first I wanted to point to a scribe :) Agatha has posted her first...
Eliza Madrigal: Really entertaining, so I hope everyone will take a chance to read it today... after the session perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Scribe_Project/2010/06/07_-_09_Agatha's_Picks
Maxine Walden: thanks Agatha, look forward to reading it
Eden Haiku: Always fun to read Agatha :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'd expect today Agatha is watching the World Cup...
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: Also, a reminder that the recurring donations button is installed on the wiki ... very convenient

Eliza Madrigal: So shall we move into discussion about session logging?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
Bleu Oleander: would rather talk about art, but sure :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eden Haiku: and poetry
Maxine Walden: :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how about Love??
Eliza Madrigal: Our session logs are full of art and poetry....
Eden Haiku: and peace?
Eliza Madrigal: so lovely to read them... how these things spontaneously errupt....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: and dropping :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: takes her dictionary ***
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: **
Maxine Walden: In the flurry of emails recently, could we review the topics on logging we need to address?
Eliza Madrigal: Good idea Maxine, yes
Bleu Oleander: to log or not to log ......
Eden Haiku: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Awareness :)
Eliza Madrigal: Specifically, the question is whether to use currently logged sessions, for unlogged sessions...
Maxine Walden: hi, Adams
Eliza Madrigal: or whether to leave that for the judgement of the guardian within a session... if a conversation turns to personal territory, etc
Eden Haiku: Hello Adams ;)
Bleu Oleander: hi Adams
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adams :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hi Adams
Adams Rubble quietly waves to everyone; welcomes CosmicFlower
Eliza Madrigal: Also, since there is a desire for planned unlogged sessions...
Eliza Madrigal: how to meet that need naturally and effectively
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Adams
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ty**
Eliza Madrigal: without disrupting the flow
Eliza Madrigal: and continuity
Eliza Madrigal: (that would be my summary)
Maxine Walden: thanks, Eliza

Eos Amaterasu: I like stevenaia's summary thru email: ""No log" sessions, if chosen to occur, could be available at another time so the consistency of "our good work and play" remains. PaB-No-Log version, or whatever this alternative experiment with no direct record, could occur at another time and another place to avoid confusion. "
Eos Amaterasu: and meanwhile retaining our current good practice
Eliza Madrigal: yes, this is my feeling as well, personally. However it is good to weigh all the options
stevenaia Michinaga: It may be a good place to begin
Eos Amaterasu: If things get totally out of hand or way too personal, the GoC can stop logging, or edit the log....
Eos Amaterasu: (during a regulary scheduled programming session :-)
Calvino Rabeni: If that is important - it puts the nonlogged sessions at a disadvantage, in that they have to compete - I'm not sure that is how to invite a new activity -
Calvino Rabeni: How to invite it then, is an additional question
Eos Amaterasu: I think the way Piet just announced a theme session is a good model
Eliza Madrigal: yes, as is Yaku's voice session, and the special art session...
stevenaia Michinaga: As just a "regular" no log session
Bleu Oleander: yes, the Art of Being project another model
Eliza Madrigal: (which was BLISSFULL)
Eos Amaterasu: he set a time an hour before a regularly scheduled session, and adding another regularly scheduled session, the theme session

Eden Haiku: Calvino, do you have an idea of how many people would be interested in these non-logged sessions?
Calvino Rabeni: My feeling is, that it is an opportunity for people who may not know whether or not they are interested
Eden Haiku: To my knowledge, only Liza (Darren) and you expressed such an interest.
Calvino Rabeni: as in, to try something different, because it is what is happening
Calvino Rabeni: and for the non-guardians, there are some who are staying away
Calvino Rabeni: on account of logging
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, and perhaps people who might come to see the place their first times, might feel more comfortable
Calvino Rabeni: so, I see an "undeveloped" interest in it
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or if someone is truly shy
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: then perhaps its beter not to put on public
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: logging would still be the case for pab, in general, therefore someone not comfortable would not be, in general
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: both are good
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think
Eos Amaterasu: No reason any of couldn't host spontaneous PaB sessions for parties of 2 or more, whenever and wherever
Eliza Madrigal: And certainly visitors are welcome to attend unlogged non-session time pab sessions
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes, if feel more comfortable
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but on the other hand
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: if its recorded
Bleu Oleander: when I first came to PaB I listened for several sessions to observe the rythyms of the group and then entered into the conversation gently .... perhaps GoC should suggest that to new ppl :) a thought
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but it doesn't give the blessing or support, to have them be spontaneous and on-request
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: it might teach / or give a bit more feeling brave
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or not shy
Adams Rubble: I did much the same thing Bleu
Eos Amaterasu: Cal, one idea: set up a time (eg., Tuesday 18:00) for a non-logged PaB session to which you invite the people who've expressed this interest
Eliza Madrigal: yes I think that's an often pattern... to observe for a few weeks, etc, to decide
stevenaia Michinaga: Time to go. Bye all
Martie Georgia is Offline
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steve :)
Calvino Rabeni: Bye steve
Adams Rubble: bye Steve
Maxine Walden: bye steve
Eden Haiku: Bye Steve. .
Lucinda Lavender: bye Steve...
Eliza Madrigal: As I mentioned in email, I took a little while to get a sense of 'why' the logging was done, when I first found PaB
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Stevenaia
Bleu Oleander: I also think it might be a good idea to have one meeting a week or month where new ppl could attend as an orientation
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, I was not bothered about it
Eliza Madrigal: I think so too, Bleu
Eden Haiku: Orientation meeting sounds good yes.
Eliza Madrigal: but logged, so that it becomes a reference also :)
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eden Haiku: agree with Eliza.
Eos Amaterasu: Logging is obviously not an intrinsic part of Play as Being, but it is part of the specific art form or play form that is the SL PaB activity in the 4 daily sessions
Eos Amaterasu: it adds a bit of self-consciousness, but that seems to be a part of any enacted art
Eden Haiku: Interesting distinction Eos.
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: I think the self-consciousness serves us very well at times

Bleu Oleander: I don't think logging is the problem .... orientation is .... should be a better way to introduce new ppl
Adams Rubble: It is a public forum
Eos Amaterasu: We could create other art forms for PaB :-) (as we are doing)
Calvino Rabeni: Another art form - PAB Confidential ::)
Eos Amaterasu: A mind-meld labyrinth through which newbies walk?
Bleu Oleander: maybe a mentor system
Eos Amaterasu: PaB Confidential: great idea!
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, this is the thing. We ARE having different types of sessions already, and this seems to be playing out wonderfully... Seems to me that it makes sense to work with what we have, and with the space around sessions
Bleu Oleander: agrees with Eliza
Adams Rubble: Is the pub hour dead now?
Eliza Madrigal: It has been a while since we've taken advantage of that Adams, yes
Bleu Oleander: didn't know about the pub hour
Eliza Madrigal: When it was first built, Pema thought to have meetings there in between meetings....
Eos Amaterasu: PaB Confidential: The safest room in the house.... no one can hear us... what?.... the safest room in the house, no one can hear us here.... what? .... oh, never mind
Eliza Madrigal: but then it was more natural to spill over from a session... which we did for a few weeks
Bleu Oleander: I like the art space too for additional mtgs
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: I really have to say again, WHAT a session that was
Eden Haiku: The art plaza feels good cause we can move, yes.
Eliza Madrigal: we're really just beginning to explore the potentials
Eden Haiku: Oh, and a nice place to sit too ;)
Bleu Oleander: it seems to me we should be fostering a more open feeling not one of closed secretive kind
Lucinda Lavender: Like the use of other parts of the grounds....feels nice.
Eden Haiku: agrees with Bleu
Bleu Oleander: kinder gentler welcoming
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Bleu Oleander: GoC's should try to encourage that
Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni does not agree with "it should be this way" type statements in general
Eliza Madrigal: Fefonz just sent an email to the group also, for those who would like to refer to that...
Calvino Rabeni: I think having diverse opportunities is a good thing for any group
Adams Rubble just thinking out loud. Would the pub session have worked better if it wasn't in the pub and if guardians had volunteered to be there for each session
Adams Rubble: like a GOC
Calvino Rabeni: The pub would have worked better in an open space, and if promoted, and with a guardian
Eos Amaterasu: How about encouraging scheduling of "experimental" sessions in the hour before or hour after a "plain old logged" session?
Eos Amaterasu: Location flexible
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that sounds helpful Eos
Eos Amaterasu: text or audio or mind meld
Lucinda Lavender: I like the sound of that Eos...
Eliza Madrigal nods
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what is GOC?
Eos Amaterasu: Guardian of the Cats
Adams Rubble: Guardian on Call
Lucinda Lavender: wondering the same Cosmic..
Calvino Rabeni: That is the host of the session
Lucinda Lavender: Ah
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ok, thanks
Bleu Oleander: (a good example of the need for an orientation introduction)
Lucinda Lavender: I am still very new...
Eliza Madrigal: And there have been a few instances of guardians saying "I'll be available at the dance hall every Wed at 3" but some things fly and some don't....
Adams Rubble: sorry gfor the acronym
Eos Amaterasu: 3 am or 3 pm?
Eliza Madrigal: so good to take everything lightly and keep playing :)
Lucinda Lavender: Yes isn the spirit of play I see the movement to another par of the area as further exploration of topics...

Eos Amaterasu: Yak's voice sessions are not logged...?
Eliza Madrigal: Right
Yakuzza Lethecus: no of course not
Yakuzza Lethecus: no recording
Yakuzza Lethecus: s
Calvino Rabeni: How did / are those going Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: the chat starts 10 minutes before the regular session
Eos Amaterasu: (actually, it's easy to record audio ....)
Lucinda Lavender: Perhap there is something that feels dark I might prefer to sit on a white pillow an a sort of dark place...
Lucinda Lavender: allowing the feelings to be like a cloud around one as they listen...
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s interesting to hear the tone of the voices and of course for me it feels much easier to drop myself into a conversation
Yakuzza Lethecus: freely associating is much easier for at least me and often i like just bleu,eden or who ever is there´s discussion
Bleu Oleander: Yaku's session is wonderful .... all should try it :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i know i only need to record steroemix
Eos Amaterasu: have you noticed the not-logging making any difference?
Eliza Madrigal: It was really fun on Friday... pretty big group, too
Eos Amaterasu: (I know may be hard to separate from text vs voice issue)
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i believe it does make a difference
Bleu Oleander: it's more the voice that makes the difference i think
Eliza Madrigal: yes, the voice changes the dynamic a bit
Yakuzza Lethecus: especially in voice i wouldn´t like recordings since it´s faster that you tell things out of the private life
Eos Amaterasu: SL viewer now allows modifying voice
Eos Amaterasu: so you could speak in an avatar-only voice
Calvino Rabeni: Someone told me - I forgot who - that the text chat feels more contemplative than voice, since it slows them down a little and lets them see their statement
Adams Rubble: what do mean Eos?
Adams Rubble: ohhh
Lucinda Lavender: that might have been me Cal...
Eos Amaterasu: I haven't used that yet, but you can modulate the sound of your voice in various ways
Eos Amaterasu: Eos on Helium
Adams Rubble: :)
Maxine Walden: :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Eliza Madrigal: useful for tinies
Eden Haiku: We can tell the difference between real voices and fake ones :)
Maxine Walden: these different modes of expression and exploration...wonderful to think about

Calvino Rabeni: Lucinda, what is your feeling about the non-logging in the sessions on dreams?
Calvino Rabeni: yes max !
Lucinda Lavender: I am not sure yet.
Bleu Oleander: dream sessions are not logged?
Calvino Rabeni: Personally, I would not want my dreams in a public log
Adams Rubble: Most Kira sessions are not logged
Eliza Madrigal: PaB dream sessions are logged, not dream workshop :)
Lucinda Lavender: Never have hadd logging in Real Life...and have not encouraged it because there is the sense that everything is changing and that there willnot be need of it. As well as persal issues that come in to the dreams
Maxine Walden: Just for clarity, the Dream Workshop, Tuesdays 1pm SL have not been logged for privacy of the dreamer
Eliza Madrigal: I loved going back to read the dream session we had recently... continually unfolds actually
Lucinda Lavender: I did too...
Lucinda Lavender: like it I mean
Eliza Madrigal: and when one 'knows' they are being recorded, it affects what they share
Maxine Walden: You are speaking about a session re the Dream Circle?
Eliza Madrigal: this is not necessarily a bad thing
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Lucinda Lavender: dream circle wed 7 am
Maxine Walden: thanks
Lucinda Lavender: I chose not to share one part of the dream tho...
Calvino Rabeni: A proposal - that the logged dream circle could be visible only to participants or wiki members - a middle way with logging
Calvino Rabeni: then participants could review, but the privacy issues would be a bit eased
Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: Well, there are two formats for dream circle... Maxine's workshop is more personal/private
Eliza Madrigal: seems no problem to solve...
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Lucinda Lavender: one logged one not
Eliza Madrigal: like a formal living/dining room vs a family room/kitchen table perhaps...
Maxine Walden: :)
Eliza Madrigal: each wonderful in their way
Lucinda Lavender: yes

Calvino Rabeni: One thing I want to say - is to comment Liza for thinking about this thouroughly in the email, and being willing to go into the subtleties
Calvino Rabeni: *commend, I meant :)
Eliza Madrigal: absolutely
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Eliza Madrigal: And I appreciate Steve's addressing her very real concern about the complexities of logging and the time that can go into doing it thoughtfully
Eos Amaterasu: I think the interesting thing about sharing things in some kind of pool is that it is okay to insert mistakes - perfection not required
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Maxine Walden: yes, eos
Eliza Madrigal: sign above the door "Perfection Not Required" :D
Eos Amaterasu: However, you can also choose what not to share - sometimes that's appropriate too
Lucinda Lavender: I am currently thinking about how logging is a kind of container.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes it is :)
Maxine Walden: hmm Lucinda, interesting thought
Lucinda Lavender: an open one
Calvino Rabeni: And that gives it a specific character
Eliza Madrigal: mmm,yes
Eos Amaterasu: It's also a container with a temporal echo
Eos Amaterasu: can be revisited later
Lucinda Lavender: and perhaps we are considering the need to drop it at times...
Eden Haiku: A temporal echo...I like that :)
Bleu Oleander: one that everyone can contribute to ..... and choose what to contribute
Maxine Walden: yes, community container of a sort
Lucinda Lavender: I keep envisioning a collendar
Lucinda Lavender: the big leafy things don't drop through.
Bleu Oleander: holds lightly

Calvino Rabeni: I had a conversation with a non-guardian, who felt a minority view stongly, that logging of mistakes for all time, was not helpful and dignified for the speaker - degrading actually. It made me think ...
Calvino Rabeni: that the saefty of making mistakes, is partly the ability to drop them
Maxine Walden: Cal, you so beautifully express the varying attitudes re 'mistakes' or imperfections...
Calvino Rabeni: which is aided by them not being recorded :)
Bleu Oleander: mistakes can be called to the attention of the GoC who can edit the log
Maxine Walden: ..express our own inner attitude toward 'mistakes'
Calvino Rabeni: They can, but only if blatant, and the person recognizes them, and can communicate, etc.
Eliza Madrigal: Any guardian has the option of editing, and surely we are not going to get away from personal responsibility and judgement calls
Eliza Madrigal: If someone isn't comfortable, well, that's their choice :)
Eden Haiku: Temporal echoes::::Of our beings playing::::Imperfects and real
Maxine Walden: :)
Adams Rubble: I have edited something I said out of a log in which another was GOC while informing them I had done so
Calvino Rabeni: There were times when I felt mistakes, and I could have gone back and struck them from the wiki - any of us can do that - but decided to let them stand
Calvino Rabeni: Yes adams
Lucinda Lavender: Considering that play is part of clearing the mistakes
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I've had both of those experiences too
Eliza Madrigal: I learn that way...
Lucinda Lavender: same here Eden
Lucinda Lavender: /Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: for me its part of why pab is enrichign as opposed to just chatting
Eliza Madrigal: *enriching
Maxine Walden: and me as well learn from that experience
Maxine Walden: observing evolving attitudes
Eliza Madrigal nods
Lucinda Lavender: In that dream I had where the person was knocked out by the log...
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Lucinda!
Calvino Rabeni: There is a kind of grace, in normal human memory, in that it can forget mistakes, as a part of being forgiving
Eos Amaterasu: what if... every word.... had incalculable further consequences...
Maxine Walden: yes, Cal,agree
Calvino Rabeni: Funny, Cinda, a knockout
Lucinda Lavender: in the end...I was in a large shower room with boys ( healing onew)
Lucinda Lavender: ones
Eos Amaterasu: at the same time we play soft, as Cal says
Lucinda Lavender: and they were peeing around playfully in that shower.
Maxine Walden: :)
Lucinda Lavender: I told the staff I could handle wildness...
Eliza Madrigal grins
Maxine Walden: :)
Lucinda Lavender: I just see the cleansing...
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone
Lucinda Lavender: of play
Maxine Walden: agree, Lucinda
Eliza Madrigal: What a wonderful note to end on. I must go :)
Maxine Walden: Have to go as well
Eden Haiku: Bye Yaku! have a nice Sunday!
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you everyone!!
Lucinda Lavender: what is poison? Eliza
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao, thank you, bye!
Bleu Oleander: bye Yaku, Maxine
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: bye
Maxine Walden is Offline
Eden Haiku: And a wonderful trip to Japan Eliza!
Lucinda Lavender: your dream had the poison
Eliza Madrigal: hm... yes now there's a question perhaps Lucinda
Eliza Madrigal: I wasn't sure if it was poison
Eliza Madrigal: or some strange substance :)
Lucinda Lavender: ah
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you (((EDEN))))
Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Adams :) Bye all
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye
Eden Haiku: (((Eliza))) I see a a safe returm!
Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza .... great trip :)
Lucinda Lavender: Have a great trip Eliza...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: have Fun,
Qt Core: bye Adams, eliza
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: All
Eliza Madrigal: :::beams:::: Namaste
Bleu Oleander: bye all :)

== Early Session Greetings:

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, Cal
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza, Cal
Eliza Madrigal: hehe... hard to take off this silly gadget Eden just gave me....
Bleu Oleander: whoa what was that?
Calvino Rabeni: Hi - that's a sprightly entry :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: Live from my iPhone sitting on Chelsea market :)
Bleu Oleander: hey steve that's great :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Bleu Oleander: hi Eden :)
stevenaia Michinaga: So I will remain a cloud for today
Eden Haiku: Hi everyone!
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, how nice Steve
Maxine Walden: Eliza is doing acrobatics!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine, Ya, Eden :)
Bleu Oleander: how did you do that steve?
Maxine Walden: Steven in the clouds with diamonds...
stevenaia Michinaga: Or until my battery says bye
Eliza Madrigal: Blame Eden, Maxine :)) I'll stop this in just a moment... but kind of fun for now....
Eden Haiku: Don'T mind Eliza somersaults, she is just overjoyed about her trip to Japan ...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, Qt :)
Qt Core: hi all
stevenaia Michinaga: Bleu, there's an app for that
Maxine Walden: yes,can see so, Eden
Bleu Oleander: hi Eos, Qt
Bleu Oleander: cool .... text only steve?
Eos Amaterasu: hi all
stevenaia Michinaga: Nods
Bleu Oleander: ah
Eden Haiku: Oh already into cloud computing Steve? ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice new outfit, Qt
Qt Core: ty eliza
Maxine Walden: hi, Eos
Eden Haiku: Hi Eos!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :)