The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways, who emailed the day before that the topic would be about funerals good, bad or whatever.
We have a diverse and knowledgible group here that know of funerals rites world-wide, religious-wide and socialial-wide.

Riddle Sideways: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: ((((((((((((((Riddle))))))))))))
Eliza Madrigal: Morning :)
Riddle Sideways: the quiet time of day :)
Eliza Madrigal: quiet is OK by me
Eliza Madrigal: welcome back, nice idea for this session, sharing your wisdom
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce
Riddle Sideways: Morning Bruce
Riddle Sideways: oh, wish had wisdom to share
Riddle Sideways: spare
Riddle Sideways: whatever
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Eliza and riddle!
Eliza Madrigal: sharing company works too

Riddle Sideways: yep
                       --BELL--
Riddle Sideways: so ya'll don't think the topic is too morbid?
Eliza Madrigal: oO0Oo sends word of Internet troubles but would have liked to attend
Bruce Mowbray: absolutely not.
Eliza Madrigal: excellent topic
Eliza Madrigal: important topic Riddle, thanks so much
Eliza Madrigal: sort of thing communities may help one another with
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: just was on the frontal lobe lately
Bruce Mowbray: indeed, Eliza.

Riddle Sideways: Bruce, really liked your email thoughts
Bruce Mowbray: I'm a bit vague about the topic, though. . .
Eliza Madrigal: yes, thank you Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: is it how those who survive conduct a memorial service or whatever...
Riddle Sideways: yes, was thinking that mostly
Bruce Mowbray: or is it how We -- before our own deaths -- would prefer to have that done?
Bruce Mowbray: (or not done)
Riddle Sideways: but had no set path for the conversation 'must' go
Riddle Sideways: esspecially with your depth of religious experiences
Riddle Sideways: on how different socialities

Bruce Mowbray: Well, I have a personal sort-of confession to make. . .
Bruce Mowbray: For over thirty years, a friend of mine had ASSUMED that I would conduct his memorial service.
Riddle Sideways: and religious support the living
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Bruce Mowbray: He died this summer. . .
Riddle Sideways: and did you?
Bruce Mowbray: and the funeral home called me -- and said my name was down for that role. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and I told them that it was never my agreement to do it...
Bruce Mowbray: (I could go into the reasonsw...) but esentially, it was because I did NOT like the community of folks who I knew would be attending - and have enormous expectations of how I should be doing things.
Bruce Mowbray: I did not even attend the service. . .
Bruce Mowbray: but I had the best excuse in the world HA!
Eliza Madrigal: what difficult choices :(
Bruce Mowbray: I was near death's door myself -- in the hospital!
Bruce Mowbray: but I still had to confront myself on that. . .
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Bruce Mowbray: and I decided that even if I had been well, I would not have been there.
Bruce Mowbray: a big moral dilemma for me -- for about three decades.
Bruce Mowbray: (done)
Riddle Sideways: ah the weight we put on
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes.

Riddle Sideways: sister had told me to prepare a speech
Bruce Mowbray: and once I'd made my decision, I felt about thirty years lighter.
Riddle Sideways: so wrote lots of versions
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Riddle Sideways: Hi San
Eliza Madrigal: (Hi San, I'll give you a note)
Santoshima Resident: hi
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, San.
Santoshima Resident: and hey
Santoshima Resident: listening
Riddle Sideways: the neices declared that they decided not to say anything, but would each write a personal note
Riddle Sideways: and put it into casket. so I did that too.

Riddle Sideways: plenty of seats down front, San
Santoshima Resident: everybody fits better into the screen if i sit in back :)

Riddle Sideways: was very strange to have an open casket funeral
Eliza Madrigal: uncomfortable strange, or simply unfamiliar?
Riddle Sideways: 1. they fix body up to look 10-20 years younger
Riddle Sideways: 2. watching everybody else's approach to scene
Riddle Sideways: some had trouble being in the room
Riddle Sideways: more customs around the world shroud the body

Bruce Mowbray recalls Jessica Midford's "The American Way of Death" -- very popular in the 1960's --- and responsible for the formation of many "memorial societies" -- to provide sensible alternatives to standard funeral practices in America
Eliza Madrigal: nods
                                               --BELL--
Riddle Sideways: Hi Korel
Bruce Mowbray: I was actually employed by the Bay Area Funeral Society in 1964 (founded my Midford and her husband).
Bruce Mowbray: by*
Bruce Mowbray: sry.
Eliza Madrigal: there is something about the usual compartmentalization of births and deaths that makes it more difficult when these things come I think
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Kori.
Korel Laloix: Heya
Santoshima Resident: heya, Korel
Bruce Mowbray: Do you think folks found it difficult to be inthe room because of their own attitudes toward death -- or because of different religious practices, or what, riddle?
Riddle Sideways: not sure, would have liked to know
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Riddle Sideways: can observe, but not know why
Riddle Sideways: some would hide in another room
Bruce Mowbray: Around here (Ohio, USA), it is common to leave the casket open before the service, then close it during the service.
Riddle Sideways: some go right up to body
Riddle Sideways: Hi Observer
Bruce Mowbray: emotional "closure" can be assisted by visible evidence of the body -- even touching it....
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I kissed the cheek of my grand-memere (in -law)... thanked her... was surprisingly perfectly normal
Bruce Mowbray: for some.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Eliza...
Eliza Madrigal: and gave a sense of acceptance

Korel Laloix: I have never lost to death someone that I have cared about.
Bruce Mowbray: Idid a similar thing with my dad and also with a group home resident that I'd worked with for 20 years.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, acceptance of the fact . . . that death has occurred - - very healing for some...
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Raffila -- welcome!
Riddle Sideways: Hi Raffil
Raffila Millgrove: greetings everyone.
Santoshima Resident: hello Raffila :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Raffila and observerm... will make you a note Raffila
Eliza Madrigal: I have different requests based on timing... mainly whether elderly relatives that might be disturbed by my choices will still be alive... want to respect their feelings while also honoring my own sensibilities.
Riddle Sideways: Kor, your lucky so far
Santoshima Resident: and observerm, hello :)
Riddle Sideways: hard choices/balance Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Riddle Sideways: a funeral is for the living
Korel Laloix: In someways.. just not a lot of people in my life to deeply care about.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Eliza --- and the greater the diversity of those attending, the more important it seems that all of the preferences be honored....
Eliza Madrigal: but as you say, these services are mainly for the living

Raffila Millgrove: all my life i had plan to control my memorial. But recently i realized that the goodbye/the celebration/mournig whatever is for the living and i've decided to let them chose how to mark my departure.

Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Bruce Mowbray: I conducted a memorial service for a very well-known and much loved worker with the state government many years back. . .
Korel Laloix: Heya
Riddle Sideways: Hey Bozy puppie
Eliza Madrigal: there is some question for me about the process... you know Tibetans for instance are attentive to the persons going through stages
Raffila Millgrove: hi boxie
Bruce Mowbray: over 250 attended....
Riddle Sideways: thought you might not be here
Alfred Kelberry: nice to see you good looking people :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Boxy
Bruce Mowbray: and he oldest son was a Buddhist. . .
Bruce Mowbray: but her family was fundamentalist Christian.
Santoshima Resident: hello boxy :)
Bruce Mowbray: so I had some chasms to span with whatever I said. . .
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Boxy.
Riddle Sideways: even if there had of been only 2 there. there probably would have been chasms

Alfred Kelberry: does anyone want to be put in a cryogenic camera after death in hopes to be revived some time in the future?

Bruce Mowbray: She had specified that she wanted ice cream, cake, and balloons after the service. . . so the starchy ones departed then, and al lot of really perky friends has a fine remembrance party in the basement of the church.
Eliza Madrigal: one service I attended handled things rather well, attempting to include a 'whole picture'... so faith of her childhood and also those faiths she explored or incorporated throughout later life
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful -- a celebration of her "path" (or his path)
Raffila Millgrove: that's interesting Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: felt genuine
Eliza Madrigal: and kind
Eliza Madrigal: to those grieving as well as to her
Riddle Sideways: Hi Xir
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xirana
Alfred Kelberry: xiri :)
Santoshima Resident: hello Xirana :)
Alfred Kelberry: is it a flamenco dress? :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Xir!
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Rid, boxy Burce, Raffi San Eliza...Korel :)
Raffila Millgrove: at my church. the family displays photos and things important to the departed--like the carpenter's favorite tools.. and then everyone who is there.. is invited to remeber. anyone can talk. the service is over when all have said what they needed to.
Alfred Kelberry: nice, raff
Eliza Madrigal: yes

Riddle Sideways: no Boxy, think that reincarnation is maybe better then cryogenics
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I prefer recycling into the natural environment to either cryogenics or reincarnation (although I guess reincarnation is a sort of recycling, isn't it).
Raffila Millgrove: me too. i want a "new me" next time. why rerun the old one?
                       --BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: does reincarnation require the body to be burned?
Alfred Kelberry: *pokes storm*
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Riddle Sideways: Hi Storm
Alfred Kelberry: hi, stormy boy
Santoshima Resident: hello Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Hello all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Storm :)
Alfred Kelberry: raff, answering your question: cause pragmatically speaking, there's no "new me" :)
Riddle Sideways: so many attempts to celebrate somebody with please everybody else
Riddle Sideways: *pleasing
Raffila Millgrove: no? well the knowledge of the 'me-ness" isn't there. but if you come back.. it is in a new form.
Riddle Sideways: maybe

Alfred Kelberry: anyone had an experience where bad words were said about the passed person?
Eliza Madrigal: yes but in a loving way... the things that made people crazy about them were suddenly endearing :)
Eliza Madrigal: but still stated

Bruce Mowbray: Wouldn't it make maters easier if the person whom the service is for give a very explicit statement of wishes? --- or would that be inapproprite - - if the service is regarded as a COMMUNITY rite, not just something that the deceased prefers.
Bruce Mowbray: matter*

Alfred Kelberry: raff, i think it's a nice surviving construct that humans created for themselves, which i'm also is a victom and like to believe i can have many lives :)
Xirana Oximoxi: it depends of the proximity of the 'passed' person
Alfred Kelberry: eliza :)
Raffila Millgrove: i believe in genetic memories.. so i am not worried about coming back. i think i'll just be continuing... thru the genes.. in a small way.
Eliza Madrigal: so many things come into play... feeling that loss one may feel "I know better (than everyone else) what they would have wanted"... then others close feel that too

Bruce Mowbray: I feel some sense of ethical duty to let folks know what I want and do not want - - but I also appreciate that the service (which I'd told everyone I prefer NOT TO HAVE) is really not for me or about me -- it is for and about others' memories of me... and their needs.
Alfred Kelberry: bruce, as riddle said funeral is for the living. those who passed don't really care how it's held.
Riddle Sideways: all the ASSUMING stuff
Eliza Madrigal: yes

Raffila Millgrove: i said the same thing--that i don't care anymore how it's done--it's for the living to chose what they want. (i know for me, the living would pick something fun)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: raff :)

Eliza Madrigal: I care... am sitting here thinking I'd better get busy writing
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Riddle Sideways: :)
Storm Nordwind: Those departed may care enough to ensure there is no fighting about what happens! Therefore they specify their wishes, out of compassion for the living :)

Bruce Mowbray: well, lack of communication about the details beforehand can lead to assumptions and misunderstandings later.... (That's why is said "very explicit" statement of one's preferences BEFORE one ides, if possible.)
Bruce Mowbray: dies*

Raffila Millgrove: when my 91 yr old mother in law was here--i wore her out. She suddenly took this really long afternoon nap. I thought I'd killed her.
Alfred Kelberry: storm, yes, good point
Bruce Mowbray: Were you quite young then, Raffila?
Raffila Millgrove: not really, this was last month.
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear....
Raffila Millgrove: but i spent the time hoping she was going to wake up soon...(she was just sleeping very long/strong) planning her memorial. i told me daughter about it later.. and she loved it.. so we'll all set.. for later.

Korel Laloix: Does anyone have any cultural funeral traditions that they want to have for theirs?
Riddle Sideways: was thinking of a wake
Bruce Mowbray: Your family and your mother-in-law are wise and fortunate.
Alfred Kelberry: riddle, i've seen it in the email. can you tell more about it?
Riddle Sideways: but, was strange to see neice and nephew start drinking hard stuff at 10am
Storm Nordwind chuckles

Raffila Millgrove: she was a great librarian.. going to have a reception where he son makes canapes/serves wine (he loves to do that) and everyone will bring the book they love best with a notecard on why.. all my book club friends.. and we'll display and talk on them. she will love it.
Bruce Mowbray: sounds wonderful.
Eliza Madrigal: nice idea
Raffila Millgrove: cause she abhors relgion. is an atheist. this will celebrate what she liked best: book/reading/people sharing books.
Riddle Sideways: nice
Santoshima Resident: please excuse me, peaceful day to everyone ~ see ya
Riddle Sideways: bye san
Bruce Mowbray: bye bye, San!
Korel Laloix: ciao
Alfred Kelberry: isn't it rare for an old person to be an atheist?
Eliza Madrigal: @Korel - the hardest part for me would be not having as many as would be added... which is why the timing comes into play, as for the sake of older relatives I would have more tradition that for me, would be historical rather than actually representative
Eliza Madrigal: Bye San
Korel Laloix: OK.
Raffila Millgrove: i know some very strong atheist. they are not going to get cold feet on their deathbeds.
Korel Laloix: Interesting question Boxy.
Alfred Kelberry: raff :)
                       --BELL--
Bruce Mowbray wonders how Quakers do funerals. . . .
Korel Laloix: No idea.
Raffila Millgrove: that whole side of family (atheists) mentions "god" daily. it find it hugely ironic. i say to them.. don't you think you might be brining him into existence by talking on him all the time?
Storm Nordwind: hehe!
Bruce Mowbray: heh heh.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: Been to a Mennonite funderal though.
Xirana Oximoxi: I silently go now... take care all and see you soon!! :)
Riddle Sideways: been to Amish funerals
Raffila Millgrove: bye Xirana
Alfred Kelberry: poof :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Xiri
Riddle Sideways: bye Xir
Eliza Madrigal: considering too, virtual connections, for many of us
Korel Laloix: CIoa
Bruce Mowbray: bye bye Xir.
Storm Nordwind: My father was a Humanist to the end, when he died in his 70s. He didn't need a god. But he was a role model for compassion, caring for his carers right to the end.
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Alfred Kelberry: that's nice
Eliza Madrigal: heart of the matter
Raffila Millgrove: sounds like fine man.

Alfred Kelberry: anyone else would like to share their will?
Eliza Madrigal: are you saying you would Boxy?
Alfred Kelberry: i did in the email :)
Eliza Madrigal: oh... have to check emails again...

Korel Laloix: Would it be in appropriate to start palnning your funderal when you are 25?
Raffila Millgrove: you never know.. when you might go, Korel. if it's important t you....why not?
Storm Nordwind: Why ever not? You can always modify as you go on.
Alfred Kelberry: i think it'd be overly anal, but fine :)
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that would be quite appropriate, Kori - - and also letting friends know of your plans.
Korel Laloix: True... had a scare recently that mde me a bit more aware.
Eliza Madrigal: seems important, perhaps kind to grandma
Korel Laloix: True...
Korel Laloix: She has started to mention things about her funeral....
Korel Laloix: I think she knows something.

Storm Nordwind: It makes a pleasant change from thinking one will live forever. Kind of a gentle nudge to friends to make the most of what they have in this life.
Alfred Kelberry: hmm

Eliza Madrigal: watched a film this week where after the grandmother died a long letter was read which encouraged those remaining to forgive an outcast member and saying kind things about them all

Korel Laloix: I sort of want a Tsalagi funeral.. but with a strong Christian part as well.
Korel Laloix: But that is just an inital thought.
Eliza Madrigal: what does that entail?
Korel Laloix: Hard to describe....
Riddle Sideways: how to balance both
Korel Laloix: OUr cultural root... if that is the word... had us with four souls.
Korel Laloix: So each are taken care of.
Eliza Madrigal: wow interesting
Korel Laloix: But not sure how I would mix the two.
Korel Laloix: I need to ask my aunts about that more.
Storm Nordwind: perhaps there's a precedent you can draw from?
Raffila Millgrove: 4 souls? wow
Korel Laloix: I am sure there is.
Korel Laloix: I am not really versed on them... but there is one in your head, heart, liver and bones.
Korel Laloix: Each stays longer on earth after you die.
Korel Laloix: No.. wrong words.
Korel Laloix: Each has a deiffert time they stay around.
Korel Laloix: The bones soul stays for a year... and tha tis the longest.
Korel Laloix: Interesting thoughts.
Raffila Millgrove: ah... romantically i was going to guess the heart.
Storm Nordwind: http://www.cherokeediscovery.com/tsq-three.html
Eliza Madrigal: Is 'balance' the central question you came away with Riddle? Sounds like a very rough time ((((((((( ))))))))) ... hope you will have some time to rest now
Riddle Sideways: ty
Korel Laloix: There is a lot about Tsalagi mysticim that I don't know.
Korel Laloix: Thanks for that link.
Riddle Sideways: hmmm, not much balance. not rough either. many good words said, just that they all ended with "in Jesus' name"
Raffila Millgrove: thank you STorm, that was amazing.
                       --BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, thanks Storm . . .
Bruce Mowbray: must go vote now. All be safe and happy.
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Eliza Madrigal waves to Bruce, happy voting (?)
Riddle Sideways: oh you have a super Tuesday
Korel Laloix: I am sick home today... Guess I need to go do that as well.
Raffila Millgrove: oh.. i hope you feel better soon.
Korel Laloix: Me as well.
Raffila Millgrove packs up some chicken soup for Korel.
Korel Laloix: Thanks.
Riddle Sideways: wishing you all a Super Tuesday :)
Eliza Madrigal: I see, Riddle
Korel Laloix: Already have more than I can eat.
Raffila Millgrove: lol. tc.
Storm Nordwind: rest well and grace us with your sparkle again soon :)
Eliza Madrigal: feel better Korel :)
Korel Laloix: Grandma tries to force feed me all the time, more when I have no appitiete...
Raffila Millgrove: bye everyone.
Eliza Madrigal: bye Raffila :)
Storm Nordwind waves
Korel Laloix: do na da go hv i

             and then ...
Eliza Madrigal: I'm hearing that maybe we can learn to let people be more than one thing somehow ... unique constellations of contradictions and beliefs and aspirations and experiences

Riddle Sideways: why not
Korel Laloix: I think that is a good way of thinking.
Storm Nordwind: They will be anyway. We are the losers if we don't "let" them! :)
Eliza Madrigal: not sure anyone comparing me side by side would or could have the same story ... all thinking of different people
Riddle Sideways: is that new, Eliza?

Eliza Madrigal: haha Yes!
Eliza Madrigal: not at all... but maybe to make it explicit Riddle..,
Eliza Madrigal: not sure, brings up many things

Korel Laloix: I know there are people with way different impressions of me.
Riddle Sideways: "Confusion will be my Epitaph"
Eliza Madrigal: :))))
Storm Nordwind: Oldster!
Korel Laloix: Wonder what they wouls say at my pass.
Riddle Sideways: lol
Storm Nordwind reaches for his Mellotron
Korel Laloix: Mellotron?
Eliza Madrigal looks up Mellotron
Storm Nordwind: An early musical synth King Crimson used :)
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Korel Laloix: My life I think has had three really big phases to it.... with good freonds from each.
Korel Laloix: King Crimson?
Korel Laloix looking him up
Riddle Sideways: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Korel that would be something interesting to write about, include in will
Storm Nordwind: Band with Greg Lake LATER of ELP ;)
Korel Laloix: King Crimson - 21st Century Schizoid man
Korel Laloix: lol
Storm Nordwind: The same
Korel Laloix: Interesting sound.
Eliza Madrigal: oh the things we learn in PaB :)
Storm Nordwind: Confusion will be my epitaph... from the same album
Riddle Sideways: there must have been SL funerals
Korel Laloix: YOu mean by that a parting song?
Korel Laloix: Or as song of parting for you?
Korel Laloix: Played at your funeral?
Riddle Sideways: probably should be on headstone

Eliza Madrigal: I attended a candle lighting but was for the loved one of an avatar
Eliza Madrigal: and was present only at the end.. was really beautiful
Korel Laloix: Thinking... about what song would I want played at my funderal.
Riddle Sideways: now wondering about having computer and monitors for SL to be at RL funeral
Riddle Sideways: Nah
Eliza Madrigal: :) Skype collage of friends
Riddle Sideways: that could work
Eliza Madrigal: like the overspill room... skype gatherings, avatar gatherings...
Eliza Madrigal: a few chosen cross-over figures to keep each informed
Eliza Madrigal: and share stories

Storm Nordwind: Gravestone inscription in England: "As I am now, so you must be. therefore prepare to follow me." To which someone added: "To follow you I'm not content, until I know which way you went!"
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Korel Laloix smiles
Riddle Sideways: nice
Eliza Madrigal: wonder how many people now have several services as for weddings
Alfred Kelberry: +1 for rhyming
Eliza Madrigal: :) Boxy
                       --BELL--
Korel Laloix: What do you mean Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: official/traditional service and also one less so
Storm Nordwind: Many I suspect Eliza. Both my parents had two, one in a church for a wider group and one at the crematorium later.
Riddle Sideways: years ago had 3 services for different regions to attend
Eliza Madrigal: ah, that's interesting... another way of finding balance and being inclusive

Alfred Kelberry: do you have a living will, storm?
Korel Laloix: Been to multiple wedding events, but not funeral events for the same.
Storm Nordwind: I was asked that when i went for a procedure recently. I said no, having not though sufficiently about it. My wife does though.
Storm Nordwind: *thought
Riddle Sideways: we have had for a long time
Eliza Madrigal: so basically in her hands Storm?
Storm Nordwind: Suits me :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Riddle Sideways: note: the spreading of ashes is illegal many places
Eliza Madrigal: lots of criminals about
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: yep
Korel Laloix: Illeagal to spread ashes?
Korel Laloix: Why is that
Korel Laloix: ?
Riddle Sideways: illegal to put in ocean inside 3 miles
Storm Nordwind: It becomes an issue in the US, whereas I have been used to the UK. In the US you have to think about costs of keeping someone alive when there may be only a small chance of recovery
Korel Laloix: Interesting.
Alfred Kelberry: riddle, all the movies violate this rule :)
     Please to forgive the commentator:
     Movie ashes are uniform like sand or talc powder.  
     Cremantion ashes contain bigger and smaller, bones, powder, casket screws.
     My friends ashes contained the bullets.
     My mom had her part of my son's ashes put in her coffin and buried with her.

Eliza Madrigal: also you have to consider that some relatives may have beliefs which cause them to intervene if no stated wishes
Storm Nordwind: Yes.
Korel Laloix: I guess that is a way to think of it.
         Here is the quote for one of the fourth anniversary arches:
Korel Laloix: ONe of the things that I like about PaB is that it makes me think about things that I have not before.

Storm Nordwind: (In the UK, ashes are considered inert, so i believe you don't have that 3 mile restriction)
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if it is even legal to allow the sort of end process Tibetans advocate, staying with the person as they go through phases...
Riddle Sideways: Koral, may I use that quote? :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Riddle
Korel Laloix: Umm.. sure.
Korel Laloix: Thanks... smiles
Storm Nordwind pokes Riddle "Just spell her name right, k?"
Alfred Kelberry: qoutes are anonymous
Korel Laloix: It is a made up name... so spell it like you like.
Riddle Sideways: :)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Korel Laloix: Funny... when people started calling me Kori here... it annoyed me.
Korel Laloix: lol
Eliza Madrigal: made up name but get it right, lol
Korel Laloix: Why though?.. It is a made up name.
Alfred Kelberry: kori :)
Storm Nordwind: So you became "Annoyed Woman" instead of "Annoying Woman"?
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Korel Laloix: I don't understand my brain sometimes...... grins
Korel Laloix: Exactly.. grins
Korel Laloix: But that thought lasted only a short time.
Alfred Kelberry: i think it's well in the north american tradition to shorten names
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Riddle for sharing with us
Korel Laloix: ciao
Alfred Kelberry: long legged eliza
Eliza Madrigal: appreciate the discussion and considerations so much
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now
Storm Nordwind waves
Korel Laloix: Names are strange things though.
Korel Laloix: Once I knew I had a choice, I adopted nicknames and the like.
Korel Laloix: And I still get annoyed when somone reads somethinga official and uses that.
Alfred Kelberry: official?
Korel Laloix: My legal name.
Storm Nordwind: Have you ever thought of legally changing your legal name?
Alfred Kelberry: you mean you don't like your real name?
Riddle Sideways: yes, annoyed now that new employer uses my legal name :(
Korel Laloix: Actaully, I have done it.
Storm Nordwind: Cool. me too.
Korel Laloix: Changed my first and middle name.
Korel Laloix: Will change my last eventually as well.
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Alfred Kelberry: too much of a hassle with all the documents
                       --BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Depends where you live Alfred. Some places you just start using a new name. No legalities required. Then you just inform people as you go along. I chose the middle path though, a simple legal way, as I was emigrating.
Korel Laloix: When you are a very unwanted child, you tend to end up with names that can be used asgainst you.
Korel Laloix: HEre it is a very long legal process.
Korel Laloix: Then you have to get your passport and drivers license all changes... etc.
Korel Laloix: But well worth it.
Storm Nordwind nods

Korel Laloix: It is amazing how much of a weight if feels is off of you when you change a name.

         Topic had drifted, but Storm brings it back :)
Storm Nordwind: I'm being serious rather than flippant here, but my guess is that you didn't hold any kind of funeral for your old name.
Korel Laloix: wow.
Korel Laloix: Interseting question.
Korel Laloix: But without thinking of it that way.... I did.. both times.
Riddle Sideways: ummm, got us thinking again
Korel Laloix: Had sort of a wake with close friends.
Storm Nordwind smiles
Korel Laloix: But what was in my mind was a celebration....
Storm Nordwind: Wonderful!
Korel Laloix: Interesting thoughts.
Korel Laloix: Thanks.
Korel Laloix: When I change my last name, I will have a funeral of a sort.
Korel Laloix: Then one heck of wake.... grins
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Riddle Sideways: any reason to drink to
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Korel Laloix: Might be a celebration best approached sober.
Korel Laloix: Is "approached" a good word for that?
Riddle Sideways: maybe

Storm Nordwind: There is a tradition among sailors that it is really unlucky to change the name of a ship. But I was approached by people who really wanted/needed to do so. So it was a question of negotiating with the spirit of the ship, getting its permission and making the offering it wanted. Then doing a funeral rite for the old name and a "baptism" for the new. With the very best mead showered over its bows!
Korel Laloix: wow...
Korel Laloix: INteresting.
Korel Laloix: When my mom found out I changed my middle name she freaked out in a very bad way.
Korel Laloix: I have to say I enjoyed that though... sad confession.
Korel Laloix: Was a point of removing her control from me.
Korel Laloix: I did not aske permission... i just did it.

Riddle Sideways: in my country the family name passes paternally. It is a little sad that the old family name has no male heirs to go with
Korel Laloix: I think I can understand that.
Korel Laloix: But my mom did not give me her last name.
Korel Laloix: So maybe different.

Riddle Sideways: guess there are funerals happening every night/day, every moment
Riddle Sideways: bye to the dead moment
Korel Laloix: Maybe we limit ourselves to thinking about funerals as departrues of people.
Korel Laloix: MAybe we should look at them broader.
Riddle Sideways: yes
                       --BELL--
Storm Nordwind: We've come to live in a society where rites of passage have limited scope and application. Perhaps that's not always for the best, and a widening of scope would be good.

Alfred Kelberry: can you give an example?
Storm Nordwind: I remember being impressed, on my first visit to japan, with "Coming of Age Day" - which I don't think occurs elsewhere
Storm Nordwind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_of_Age_Day
Riddle Sideways: bye Kor
Alfred Kelberry: isn't it common to celebrate adulthood?
Riddle Sideways: wb
Korel Laloix: Been a Bat Mizva.
Korel Laloix: Or however it is spelled.
Storm Nordwind: Rarely in any communal sense, Alfred. More privately
Riddle Sideways: usually on ones bday. not as everybody once a year
Riddle Sideways: second monday in january
Storm Nordwind: It bears considering, in a society where we're limited to recognizing hatch, match and dispatch. :)
Alfred Kelberry: japan is a very communal culture :) this may be their variation
Korel Laloix: I really know nothing of Japan.
Korel Laloix: Am interested though.

Storm Nordwind: I once attended a pagan ceremony, in the south of England, where a wide but close family had a coming of age ritual for a son. It was very moving, but at the same time very powerful... and a huge lot of fun!
Korel Laloix: The comming of age thing worries me though.
Korel Laloix: What does that atually mean?
Alfred Kelberry: it means you're a responsible adult now and can drink, drive and vote :)
Riddle Sideways: some 13 years olds think that boxy
Storm Nordwind: Once again, it can be like a funeral... in otehr words it's for those left behind. Helping the parents come to terms with their child becoming independent.
Korel Laloix: Interestings.
Korel Laloix: Not sure what I was capable of when I was 13... probably a lot though.
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Korel Laloix: That was the second phase of my life.
Korel Laloix: Where I started fighting back... and had to start taking care of myself.
                       --BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps a good time for me to thank you Riddle for this theme, and to slip away.
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Korel Laloix: Me as well.
Riddle Sideways: ok, thanks Storm and by
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Bleu Oleander: hiya
Riddle Sideways: bye now
Riddle Sideways: oh, hi bleu
Bleu Oleander: just IM'ed you Riddle
Riddle Sideways: did you get my note
Bleu Oleander: about your quote
Riddle Sideways: ha
Bleu Oleander: bye all
Riddle Sideways: bye all
Korel Laloix: caio
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Korel Laloix: How are you today?
Korel Laloix: Can we do somehting for you?
                       --BELL--
Bleu Oleander: hey there boxy
Bleu Oleander: you have a quote for me yet?
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Alfred Kelberry: no, not yet
Bleu Oleander: hi Jhenyson
Alfred Kelberry: sorry, i'm not here :)
Jhenyson Resident: hi
Bleu Oleander: have to run ... bye bye