The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

Raffila Millgrove: hi steve.
Ewan Bonham: Hi folks..
Raffila Millgrove: and Ewan
stevenaia Michinaga: waves Ewan, Raffila
stevenaia Michinaga: was just relaxing here, thanks for joining me
stevenaia Michinaga: how are you?
Ewan Bonham: Sure...doing well..
Raffila Millgrove: busy. having fun as usual. how are you?
stevenaia Michinaga: been busy with family medical issues, seems spending more time with them is nice
Raffila Millgrove: oh. medical issues is never cheery. but it's great to hear that you've enjoyed the time in their company.
stevenaia Michinaga: finding the silver lining :)
Ewan Bonham: Smile..yes
Raffila Millgrove: i remember my mom being so much help to me wit the blind baby.. and how we'd reward ourselves with treats after.. long days spent in hospitals etc.
Ewan Bonham: Yes, family can be a real comfort...:)
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, it can be tiring
Raffila Millgrove: even tho it was not that cheerful. i remember the time we were together (all 3 of us) so happy.. so full of joy in our baby.
stevenaia Michinaga: hospitals
Raffila Millgrove: they were using the baby like a teaching tool.. it realy got us down.. esp as they'd keep calling my mom Grandma.. and finally she said to someone.. I am not your grandma so please call me Mrs. Garner.
Raffila Millgrove: (i think you know what i mean. they were objectifying all of us. calling us Mom, baby and Grandma.. instead of our names
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, bringing you closer than you are
Raffila Millgrove: well not exactly. just calling us by our role instead of taking time.. to find out our names and use them.
Raffila Millgrove: we were just a "case" to them. not people.
Raffila Millgrove: they don't do this anymore in healthcare, they make effort to say your name.
Raffila Millgrove: is your family having a good experience steve, with the health care providers?

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: they are improving daily, it was dire when things began
Raffila Millgrove: that is good to hear.
Raffila Millgrove squeezes Steve's hand and wishes good outcome for her and family.
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
Raffila Millgrove: you're welcome. even stranger sending good thoughts.. can be slightly comforting/helpful.. so want you to know.. sending them.
stevenaia Michinaga: many have been sending good thoughts
Raffila Millgrove: you know a big study center.. looking to see if prayer will affect health outcome...
Raffila Millgrove: had people praying... for cardiac patients.
stevenaia Michinaga: if placibos work, prayer can only help
Raffila Millgrove: and they found it made no difference and were very discouraged.. to discover that. However, in this study.
Raffila Millgrove: they... a. did not ask patient permission b. did not tell patient anyone prayed for them.
Raffila Millgrove: so i don't think they did the study in a way that would show.. how prayer could be effective.
Raffila Millgrove: the reason a placebo works.. is that the patient thinks it will work. believes in it.
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Raffila Millgrove: and that's where this study went wrong.. the paitent knew nothing about the prayers. and didn't approve or accept and be participatory in it.
stevenaia Michinaga: that makes sense, did they alter te study?
Raffila Millgrove: no
Raffila Millgrove: it was a huge one too. lot of money spent.
stevenaia Michinaga: silly scientist
Raffila Millgrove: and that seems so obvious to me, why it failed.. it blows me away they didn't try it two ways.. one with consenting, cooperative patients and one without.
Raffila Millgrove: the seem to want to measure if Prayer alone will make a difference.. so they did prove it. no it doesn't.
Raffila Millgrove: as tho there was only one way to pray... for someone.
Raffila Millgrove: that the prayer alone could do the trick.. I do understand where they were coming from.
stevenaia Michinaga: the power of prayer vs the power of belief
Raffila Millgrove: which is that the only persons who need to know about prayer is you and god.. and you'll get the outcome.. and er.. well.. doesn't seem to be a good way to heal or speed recvoery. God doesn't seem actively involved .. in the way they wanted him to be.
Raffila Millgrove: i think they were accidentally testing, "does God answer prayers" instead of can prayer speed healing.
Raffila Millgrove: and in so doing because they speciifed how god was supposed to do the answer.. they really didn't even prove.. whether a god is answering prayers..
stevenaia Michinaga: as if it could be proven since people are involved as well
stevenaia Michinaga: the act of God cannot be independent of an indiviual
Raffila Millgrove: well... these efforts at proving things.. you sure need to be careful in how you phrase the question and how you structure the variables.

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: my daughter was in a big science project.. that suddenly.. answered an entirely different question than the experiment.. had set out to ask... it cause them a lot of grief.. as this accidental discover was about ten times bigger than whatever their starting point was.. it created boy excitement and serious headache on how to deal with it. the little lab 'nobodies" were the ones who stumbled on it too of course. lol
Ewan Bonham: What was the discovery?
Raffila Millgrove: two things.
Raffila Millgrove: one related to rats.. and aging in rats. had implcations for any study using rats.
Ewan Bonham: Also for people?
Raffila Millgrove: and.. another related to nature of the brain cell.
stevenaia Michinaga: if the experiement does not give the correct outcome, it is not the experiement's fault, but that of inaccurate expectations
Ewan Bonham: Were they related studies?
Raffila Millgrove: quite honesly this related party to money.
stevenaia Michinaga: study related to money sounds currupt from the start

Raffila Millgrove: the project manager. the top guy... he wanted to try to get a patent on the rat discovery and it could be mouse.. anyway... much time had to go by while he was screwing about to see if he could makea fortune on it. i am not really kidding.
Ewan Bonham: So much for love of Knowledge..
Raffila Millgrove: the other stuff. they spent a long time arguing on who was going to get creidt.. the people in the project who made the real discovery.. or the leader yatta yatta. this science can be shockingly.. er.. i guess you used word corrupt. well . it's can be sort of life/death about Money... to keep your lab.
Santoshima Resident: good evening
stevenaia Michinaga: waves to San
Ewan Bonham: Hello san..
Santoshima Resident: rat living in the attic here, minor sciend project using sound deterent is failing
Santoshima Resident: rat has chewed open the sound devise
Raffila Millgrove: lol
Raffila Millgrove: omg that is funny and so NOT
Santoshima Resident: and severed the electric light cord nearby
stevenaia Michinaga: not a squirrel?
Santoshima Resident: in its fight for decent housing
Ewan Bonham: Sharp teeth..
Santoshima Resident: possibly a squirrel
Santoshima Resident: not confirmend
Ewan Bonham: That is more like it..
Santoshima Resident: really?
Santoshima Resident: too big a project for a rat?
Santoshima Resident: admirable, at any rate
Santoshima Resident: what is the discovery, raffi
Santoshima Resident: or is it top secret
stevenaia Michinaga: science corrupts
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: practical science corrupts practically
Santoshima Resident: thought it was ... absolute power corrupts absolutely
Santoshima Resident: but no, it's: rat power holds the winning lottery ticket
Raffila Millgrove: oh i cannot.. give good layman explain.. i am sorry. it's not top secret. they finally got it published at last.
Raffila Millgrove: and they couldn't make any money of the rat discovery. so i think the guy didnt' even bother to publish that...
Raffila Millgrove: which is somewhat depressing.
Ewan Bonham: What did they discover?
Raffila Millgrove: actually the whole topic is depressing to me.. becuase it.. this guy.. it ended the promising science career of my daughter and about 20 foreign students who worked in his lab.. they all quit the field.
Raffila Millgrove: one guy.. turns 2o young people.. who were in love with science.. into people who want nothing to do with it as career. kinda shocking.
stevenaia Michinaga: an experience to learn from and rise above
Raffila Millgrove: yeah well they all rose.. to someplace else besides science.

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: sorry to suddenly be swept back in time.. thinking of this...hope you all enjoy a great weekend.
stevenaia Michinaga: bye
Ewan Bonham: Bye Raffi
Ewan Bonham: I too will take my leave...:)
Ewan Bonham: Thank you all..:)
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Ewan, thank you
Santoshima Resident: goodnight, Ewen, bye