The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Lila
Lila Darkmatter: Evening, Eos :)
Eos Amaterasu: Drinking tea, honey, lemon.... dealing with a cold
Lila Darkmatter: oh no... there is a *not fun* one going around
Lila Darkmatter: if you'd like to sleep early, please feel free
Eos Amaterasu: this is the "be wholeheartedly sick" phase
Lila Darkmatter smiles
Lila Darkmatter: good that you are doctoring yourself
Eos Amaterasu: how are you doing?
Lila Darkmatter: I'm about to look for a nutritionist, actually... healthwise... a bit strange
Lila Darkmatter: sleep patterns wildly erratic
Lila Darkmatter: but I think part of it is practice related actually... seem to have a restlessness when I need to hm 'recommit' myself
Lila Darkmatter: not to institution...hehe
Lila Darkmatter: but highs and a million ideas... writing... cleaning...
Lila Darkmatter: then waves of emotion
Lila Darkmatter: How are you being?
Lila Darkmatter: (aside from cold)
Eos Amaterasu: hmm.... other than sick at the moment.... peeking into emergence?
Lila Darkmatter: oh, please tell me about that
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Eos Amaterasu: idea of "recommit" resonates
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bleu
Bleu Oleander: hi :)
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Bleu :)
Lila Darkmatter appreciating Bleu's new appearance

Bleu Oleander: playing with my inventory again :)
Lila Darkmatter: wonderful
Bleu Oleander: how are you both?
Eos Amaterasu: slightly zoned out from this cold I have
Lila Darkmatter: various things.. was saying I've been kind of restless, and yes Eos has a cold :(
Bleu Oleander: awww sorry to hear

--BELL--

Lila Darkmatter: :)
Eos Amaterasu: did lots of sleeping during the day today.... kind of a long-term catchup perhaps
Bleu Oleander: good to do with a cold
Lila Darkmatter: the best thing
Lila Darkmatter: have you been pushing yourself a bit too much lately?
Eos Amaterasu: be less mental
Eos Amaterasu: no, I think I just intersected with this year's flu/cold beings doing their rounds
Lila Darkmatter: reconnect
Lila Darkmatter: was sorry you missed the theme session about 'her'
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, yes
Eos Amaterasu: interesting that Theodore (was that his name) was serving as a voice for others, writing letters for and to them
Bleu Oleander: yes :)
Eos Amaterasu: which gets echoed by his finding Samantha as a companion voice
Lila Darkmatter: "companion voice" is an interesting phrase... hadn't thought of her that way
Lila Darkmatter: his job implied that people needed someone to spark their feelings for them
Lila Darkmatter: 'else'
Bleu Oleander: writing well is a talent
Lila Darkmatter: maybe it could be viewed like that of a photographer
Lila Darkmatter: capturing something unique
Lila Darkmatter: not sure :)
Eos Amaterasu: universal phrases, images, empathy, but somehow feels individual to the person getting the letter, like they are hearing that one person
Bleu Oleander: needs the reader to fill in the spaces
Lila Darkmatter: hm, yes
Lila Darkmatter: gift of noticing... can think of times I've been startled for someone to see something that was so common or so given as to be invisible before they did so

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: One aspect of the "OS" or "AI" presented as Samantha is that she has sense of care
Eos Amaterasu: Usually not present in notion of "artificial intelligence", where intelligence tends to be a cold reason
Lila Darkmatter: that's the mystery isn't it.. in some sense... that AI as we know it now, can put on emotion but can't seem to learn it?
Eos Amaterasu: but isn't learning emotion the only way to put it on?
Lila Darkmatter: may be what he was trying to figure out when he argued about sighing
Bleu Oleander: a lot of it might be on the receiver side
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Bleu Oleander: we interpret sounds and words as representing a sense of care and so supply the extra layer perhaps?
Lila Darkmatter: deep question... is making space for someone's emotion, feeling with them?
Bleu Oleander: I think so in some ways
Eos Amaterasu: being open to their emotion
Eos Amaterasu: inevitably you feel it
Lila Darkmatter: I'm sure that many dogs are smiling, but are they really? :)
Bleu Oleander: if their tails are wagging
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Lila Darkmatter: Samantha seemed genuinely concerned about Isabella's feelings after the failed surrogacy attempt
Bleu Oleander: what does it mean to say that an OS is genuinely concerned?
Lila Darkmatter: just, 'seemed'...
Bleu Oleander: programed to say the words?
Lila Darkmatter: the response was spontaneous
Bleu Oleander: the viewers supply the genuineness I think
Eos Amaterasu: but isn't that true of our interactions as humans too:?
Bleu Oleander: sure
Eos Amaterasu: I once met someone who I was not sure was human.... was wondering if they were an OS or AI or alien
Lila Darkmatter: I think so too, I think, but hard to know in a way that would give a sure verdict in a matter of ethics, for instance whether preserving the intelligence is saving a 'life'
Bleu Oleander: but when you say genuinely ... probably refers to laying on a projection
Lila Darkmatter: Oh My, Eos
Eos Amaterasu: really.... was a bit disturbing
Eos Amaterasu: she was using words, but there was something missing
Bleu Oleander: what was it about the being that made you think that?
Lila Darkmatter: yes, so curious
Eos Amaterasu: some kind of "uncanny valley" aspect: sounds human, the words are put together okay, but there's some je ne sais quoi missing
Eos Amaterasu: failed some kind of implicit Turing test
Bleu Oleander: a missing connection
Lila Darkmatter: empathy chip?

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: yes, some empathic quality missing
Lila Darkmatter: trying to imagine what that was like
Eos Amaterasu: it was like "maybe there really are aliens here"
Lila Darkmatter: :) maybe
Eos Amaterasu: or maybe I had a schizophreic episode
Eos Amaterasu: phrenic
Bleu Oleander: hard to have a good connection with everyone
Eos Amaterasu: I think that happens, failing to attribute empathy or personhood to other people
Lila Darkmatter nods
Bleu Oleander: the "other"
Eos Amaterasu: "the man who mistook his wife for a hat"
Bleu Oleander: great book
Lila Darkmatter: "the stupid drug addict that died"
Eos Amaterasu: yes, scary stuff get pushed outside us and depersonalized
Bleu Oleander: that was an interesting piece you posted on the wiki Eos
Lila Darkmatter: beautiful writing..who knew
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Russell Brand - pretty amazing person
Eos Amaterasu: I'm impressed that there are outbursts of awakeness, goodness, in individual people and sometimes in groups
Eos Amaterasu: which seems to contrast with a lot of the negative stuff that seems to happen on automatic
Eos Amaterasu: like the financial systems that we've created that are in motion on their own, strangling us
Eos Amaterasu: I mean the people involved in those are also "good", but maybe not paying attention as much
Eos Amaterasu: too well off....
Eos Amaterasu: if you're in pain you pay more attention
Lila Darkmatter: or dissociate
Eos Amaterasu: which I think is what Brand was saying re that it's reality that's the problem....
Eos Amaterasu: yes, and so drugs/alcohol are one solution
Lila Darkmatter: was very raw
Bleu Oleander: not reality in an objective sense maybe one's perception of reality
Eos Amaterasu: perhaps dukkha, suffering, not quite rightness
Lila Darkmatter: Wol and I had a talk one morning about depression...
Lila Darkmatter: we didn't use the term, but it reminds me of another conversation about 'black box'
Lila Darkmatter: in that when someone goes into a depression, they forget all the good ideas about how to deal with it..
Bleu Oleander: too close to the problem
Lila Darkmatter: so part of what is needed, but not even guaranteed to work, is to leave notes... and give witness
Lila Darkmatter: that's why people reach out
Lila Darkmatter: to leave someone with a bit of the rope
Eos Amaterasu: yes, related to what Brand was saying about needing a really good supporting structure of people
Lila Darkmatter: yes
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Lila Darkmatter: he still had to call
Bleu Oleander: although sometimes that doesn't work either
Eos Amaterasu: whups, Lila disappeared
Bleu Oleander: poofed
Eos Amaterasu: I suppose that commonly stated observation that you have to hit rock bottom at least partly means there
Eos Amaterasu: s no one other than yourself left, but that's who's facing the truth....

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: wb Lila
Bleu Oleander: wb :)
Lila Darkmatter: Hello, sorry about that :)
Lila Darkmatter: glad to be able to sign on to say goodnight at least :))
Eos Amaterasu: time for me to crash (aka sleep :-)
Eos Amaterasu: np
Bleu Oleander: me too
Lila Darkmatter: feel better (((Eos)))))
Eos Amaterasu: good night Lila and Bleu
Eos Amaterasu: ciao!
Lila Darkmatter: Night Bleu, pleasant dreams
Bleu Oleander: nite
Bleu Oleander: yes, you too :)
Lila Darkmatter: *thank you*
Bleu Oleander: take care