2008.08.18 07:00 - Culling Weeds

Adams Rubble was Recorder Guardian this morning and added a few comments. We tackled some big issues this morning but never really got any of the issues defined so we each battled valiantly to be understood

Gaya and I arrived together having met at our PaB retreats. Doug was rezzing outside the pavilion and Avastu came soon after.

Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Avastu :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
doug Sosa: hi all. :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: I am recording the chat this morning but I may be going in and out of the discussion
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure Adams
Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to talk about?
doug Sosa: I have many but at times its good to shut up a bit.
Gaya Ethaniel: Doug could we continue where we left off last time we met? Weeding?
Adams Rubble: Sometimes it is very good to hear what you have to say Doug :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: forget the sometimes
doug Sosa: remind me..
Gaya Ethaniel looks up her diary 'one moment'
doug Sosa: about weeds.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes weeding the garden
doug Sosa: I've lots of those too. :)
Gaya Ethaniel: And weeds to humans
Gaya Ethaniel: You mentioned polical or natural disastors in regards to 'weeding' humans
doug Sosa: I guess i live with so many weeds and each day think about how to deal with them, i am not remembering talking specificaly here.
Adams Rubble: :)
doug Sosa: Oh, no wonder i forgot. Someone used the word culling.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I did and you pointed out culling means gathering
doug Sosa: We weed consciouslybut cull unconsciously.
Gaya Ethaniel: While you use 'weeding', I offered an example of finding a harmony in the natural setting where culling certain speices is necesssary
Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more?
doug Sosa: We support policies that take away people's land but don't notice where those people go.
Gaya Ethaniel: Do we all have a hand in such outcome?
doug Sosa: You could say humanity (like any species) is a balance between sex and war.
doug Sosa: yes we do, just think through the series of human hands our food goes through.
doug Sosa: To be exported to here it meant taking local crops supporting people and converting them to export crops.
Gaya Ethaniel: Each individual where s/he can make a conscious choice to good effect?
doug Sosa: Persoanlly i think we overdo the "individual" analysis: it really is whole societies, economies, nations, peoles, and their impact through their summed up activity.
Gaya Ethaniel: a conscious choice with good intention*
Adams Rubble: Well we have responsibilities beyond ourselves
doug Sosa: If we come back to weeds: one thing i've noticed is that with a few years practice, i can tell a weed without having to look - its texture, the way it holds on to the soil..
doug Sosa: applying that to humans: i could look down mainstreet and see how each person is holding on, their texture, and i see need for hope, morale, education, exercize, fertility of conversation, but they don't get it, and we don't move to help.
Gaya Ethaniel: but they don't get it, and we don't move to help. = > could you expand on this please?
Avastu Maruti: pardon, my friends

doug Sosa: if a flower is drooping in the garden we water, fertilize or get some more sun. if we see a person drooping, we most often pass by.
Gaya Ethaniel: Surely not all of us. A lot of people I've met around PaB and other places are certainly not like that...
Adams Rubble: Learning to live more compassionately should be our ultimate goal, I think
doug Sosa: can you describe the daily life of such a peson?
doug Sosa: too big a question..
Gaya Ethaniel: They live their life fully and aware of themselves, others and the world. Open to Being and compassionate and being loving
Adams Rubble: Yes and no, Doug

doug Sosa: i would like to watch what that person does for a day.
Adams Rubble: Hello Sky :)
doug Sosa: hi.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Sky Szimmer: hi
Adams Rubble: Awareness is more than just an individual thing as you point out
Gaya Ethaniel: doug I'm not so sure how 'different' life such person would lead from others... if on material/pyhsical basis
Gaya Ethaniel: doug you could be one of them for all I know
Adams Rubble: We haven't been dealing with the largersocial questions too much lately in PaB
Gaya Ethaniel nods
doug Sosa: i am much more of an interventionist in my garden with the plants than i am on mainstreet with the people.
Gaya Ethaniel: There were some discussions on politics, religions etc
Sky Szimmer: i was just wondering if you guys have any thoughts as to why we put so much faith or believe into our own thoughts/story
Adams Rubble: With the larger social issues it often is hard to know where to being
Gaya Ethaniel: Plants are as important as people doug?
doug Sosa: no, not at all.
Gaya Ethaniel: How so?
doug Sosa: each i their place gets our attention.
Adams Rubble: Wow, so many threads here :)
Gaya Ethaniel: You make a choice to put your attention which is valid whatever is directed at
doug Sosa: Adams, not the wonderful typo, "it is hard to know where to being"
doug Sosa: not should be note
Adams Rubble: haha
Adams Rubble: I didn;t even notice
Adams Rubble: meant to say begin
Adams Rubble: Wow
doug Sosa: the wisdom of mistakes
Adams Rubble: Sky, I am not sure the word is "faith" in one's story as much as preoccupation :)
Sky Szimmer: i mean it in the sense that if we tell ourselves about some story, we totally believe in it.
Adams Rubble: hmmm
Sky Szimmer: it somehow becomes our reality
Sky Szimmer: until we stop our believe in that story
Gaya Ethaniel: When Sky? When it was being told or afterwards?
Adams Rubble: That is delusion
Adams Rubble: Reality should be our test
Adams Rubble: It is hard sometimes
Sky Szimmer: i guess i am just trying to see what the mechanism of how that works.
Sky Szimmer: we see something in the news about the economy, we believe in the story, we act accordingly
Sky Szimmer: we see something about politics, we believe in that too
Gaya Ethaniel: If we only 'believe' that the news are true and not questionable
Adams Rubble: Sorry, I thought you were talking personally
Sky Szimmer: or some thought that arises personally
Adams Rubble: On the larger issues we are constantly being misled
Sky Szimmer: that I should be this or that
Gaya Ethaniel: One can always just observe...
Adams Rubble: I am sorry Sky, I am a little confused...
Adams Rubble: are you talking about personal issues with a social example?
Sky Szimmer: sorry. I am not being clear.
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm following you Sky
doug Sosa: i just did a 9 sec. what occured was that the words social, personal, etc, are rather insubstantial, in part because they are not what they appear to be.
Sky Szimmer: I guess I am just talking about passing thoughts, but then used social examples as an example
Gaya Ethaniel nods at doug
Sky Szimmer: yes doug.
doug Sosa: Personal for example comes from persona, or mas, and a mask is social because in the absence of others it is meaningless.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
doug Sosa: mas = mask
Sky Szimmer: I am sorry to have a started a messy thread and have to dash. sorry. I will think more clearly about what I am questioning and will chat with you guys next time
Gaya Ethaniel: So when you water a flower doug... you are helping something just as precious as a human
Sky Szimmer: please excuse me.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: OK. bye Sky :)

doug Sosa: no. that implies a comparison not necessary to make.
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry thought you were making the comparison
doug Sosa: don't think so..
Gaya Ethaniel: Misunderstood
doug Sosa: the comparosn was that i treat them differently and coud learn frm how i treat the flower more about how to treat humans.
Gaya Ethaniel: [7:12] doug Sosa: if a flower is drooping in the garden we water, fertilize or get some more sun. if we see a person drooping, we most often pass by.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
doug Sosa: but that is not a comparison of value, but of our actions toward different things.
Adams Rubble: When we get to larger issues there are so many ways to look at them. We have a responsiblity to oother beings and we have a responsibility to the well being of the planet and to Being itself
Gaya Ethaniel: So am I right in understanding you treat 'flowers' differently to 'humans' at the moment?
doug Sosa: yes, more direct with flowers.
Gaya Ethaniel: Could you tell us why?
doug Sosa: don't think so.
Gaya Ethaniel: np
doug Sosa: Because telling you wouldn't work. what i need is your experience of the ways you do things,
Adams Rubble: Gardening is a useful thing to do :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Why knowing my experiences will make a difference here in telling me why you are more direct with flowers?
doug Sosa: because if you question it it suggests you have a different expeience, but i don't think so. i think we all have a kind of benign neglet towards the human realm, but to know that i would have to inquire.
Gaya Ethaniel: I question because I'd like to listen rather than assume doug
Adams Rubble: or a sense of hoplessness Doug
Gaya Ethaniel: Not necessarily because I'd have diff experiences...
doug Sosa: whn i used to look at the garden i feel kind of hopeless, but you learn just to begin - and see what happens. Same with people. Just start, and see what happens. no need for hoprelessness.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
doug Sosa: Those different experiences are where to begin, they are necessary. if we only have one person's experience we really don't have a conversation.
Gaya Ethaniel: If I may say how I look at 'human realm'
doug Sosa: yes.
Gaya Ethaniel: Crucial thing I've discovered in dealing with people is that trust is important. Trust in myself and others ability to 'help' themselves. Do what I can by being a mirror for others to reflect upon.
doug Sosa: then to reflet on how it went with them.
doug Sosa: I am sorry but I must go.. byed Good talking..
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
doug Sosa: bye, good..
Adams Rubble: bye Doug
Gaya Ethaniel smiles...
Adams Rubble is thinking that this will be a tough log for anyone to follow
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you for the conversation Adams
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: You are welcome Gaya
Adams Rubble: bye :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Good day Adams