2008.08.22 01:00 - Pointedly foolish

<i>The Guardian for this meeting was Wol Euler, and the comments are hers. I arrived a little early and after settling in went to get a cup of coffee, then returned to find Gaya waiting.</i>

Wol Euler: ah, hello gaya.
Wol Euler: sorry, I was getting a cup of coffee
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel: np Wol <smile> You well?
Wol Euler: yes, thanks. Residual tiredness from work, but OK.
Wol Euler: It's a fine sunny day, cool with a gentle breeze.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: and yourself?
Gaya Ethaniel: Better thanks <smile>
Wol Euler: good.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: I was amused to read the log of the session where you sat by yourself.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: After Wol that was <smile>
Wol Euler: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: From the log when you and Fael sat alone here while I was under ocean somewhere...
Gaya Ethaniel looks up at Wol
Wol Euler: aaaah.
Wol Euler: hence the fish?
Gaya Ethaniel: I've been wondering about that...
Gaya Ethaniel: There are two films that I felt primal fear as well as something deep when I watched them
Gaya Ethaniel: One was Piano and another Grand Bleu
Gaya Ethaniel: There's something about being in deep ocean/water
Wol Euler: The New Zealand arranged-marriage "Piano"?
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: ah, yse, great film!
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes you remember Ada floating from the bottom of the sea attached to piano?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: oh! no, I don't remember that. o.O
Gaya Ethaniel: Well somethings stick out for some people or not <smile>
Wol Euler: or perhaps I was in the kitchen at that moment.

Kat joins us. 

Wol Euler: Hello Kat
Kat Lemieux: HEllo!
Gaya Ethaniel: Now I'm not fearful... but still something draws me to be in the depth of ocean for example at times
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Wol Euler: have a seat, join us
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Kat Lemieux: Thank you!
Wol Euler: have you been here before?
Kat Lemieux: Yes
Kat Lemieux: Pema is a good friend of mine
Wol Euler: ok, good :-) then I'll spare you the introduction
Kat Lemieux: ;-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: Gaya, wuld you say more about the deep ocean?
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure... thou this not really relevant to 9 sec and PaB
Wol Euler shrugs. It's Friday, be loose. Being is loose.

I was sorely tempted to title this log "Being is loose", but found it a bit <i>too</i> Playful.

Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Kat Lemieux: Sometimes relevance is not obvious, but exists anyway
Wol Euler nods
Gaya Ethaniel: ok where was I?
Gaya Ethaniel: So in particular about the scene in Piano
Wol Euler: [1:07] Gaya Ethaniel: Yes you remember Ada floating from the bottom of the sea attached to piano?
Gaya Ethaniel: While I was watching the scene - [1:07] Wol Euler: Yes you remember Ada floating from the bottom of the sea attached to piano?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: snap
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: Think it was my first 'conscious' experience of seeing Being
Gaya Ethaniel: I heard sound of the piano (no sound in the film btw)
Wol Euler: !
Gaya Ethaniel: And I 'heard' something else... something
Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure you remember my previous comments... let me get it. One sec
Gaya Ethaniel: [2008/08/12 7:30] Gaya Ethaniel says that Seeing Being "sounds" like listening with blown ear drums. No sounds, no sense of space or time‚ but unlike silence.
Wol Euler: hmmm
Gaya Ethaniel: This feeling I forgot for many years since I saw the film... now I can see how and why I thought in this way. Oh thank you Wol for enabling me to look back on this
Gaya Ethaniel: Recently... I had the same experience... at the Prom. One sec
Wol Euler smiles. You did it all, Gaya, I'm just listening.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Looks like towards the end of July when I attended Proms
Gaya Ethaniel: In the second half of the concert while listening to Shostakovich Sym #5, I had the same experience... hard to describe
Gaya Ethaniel: Now I've been more aware for over a month.. it stuck out for me... when it didn't while watching Piano
Gaya Ethaniel: Coming to SL and PaB helped
Wol Euler: but it clearly did resonate somehow, yuo have remembered it clearly over all these years.
Wol Euler: you found _something_ in that scene, even if you didn'T call it Being.
Gaya Ethaniel: And I was surprised that I didn't build a house on my plot...
Wol Euler: oh?
Gaya Ethaniel: I have a floating sphere of water that I sit in...
Gaya Ethaniel: Don't know how I got to create that (with help of Moon)...
Wol Euler: /mesmiles.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

Pema joins us, for him it's late afternoon. 

Kat Lemieux: Hi Pema
Wol Euler: I'm surprised that more people haven't chosen purely water plots, actually: why not build a house on or under the water?
Pema Pera: Hi Kat, fun to see you here!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: hello Pema.
Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, hi Wol!
Kat Lemieux: Thanks!
Gaya Ethaniel: How so Wol?
Wol Euler: well, this is SL fter all. We can breathe under water here.
Wol Euler: why restrict your SL-dwelling to what is RL-possible?
Pema Pera: cozy?
Pema Pera: familiar?
Wol Euler chuckles. Well, yes.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... I never thought about breathing under water when creating the sphere or sitting in it... how strange
Kat Lemieux: My favorite "house" is a stone castle floating in the air at 650 m altitude.
Wol Euler: Kafka!
Pema Pera: that one is cozy, in some way!
Gaya Ethaniel: or when I go under ocean in SL...
Kat Lemieux: It's the warm colors that do it
Pema Pera: and it's big enough, you forget it's up there in the air
Kat Lemieux: and bookcases
Pema Pera: yes
Kat Lemieux: Book collections always make me feel at home
Wol Euler: heheheh, yes.
Wol Euler: Kat, could you give me a LM please?
Kat Lemieux: Sure, but I'll have to add you to the access list, so if you try to go there right away don't be put off if it .. puts you off
Wol Euler: ah, ok. ty!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you
Wol Euler: oh, I see! I didn'T realize you were describing _your_ house. Sorry.
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you also for your friendship Kat
Kat Lemieux: NP
Kat Lemieux: IT's actually a bit messy -- I tend to not make it a showplace since it's mainly for my own use
Gaya Ethaniel: ah sorry typed your name Kafka... Pema's mention of his work confused me... Kat
Wol Euler smiles. Being is messy.
Kat Lemieux: Right now, for instance, there's a horse in the living room. I'm not sure why
Wol Euler: !
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Wol Euler: Perhaps it is his Being that is working out? Not for you to know why he is there.
Pema Pera: :)
Kat Lemieux: It's the sculpty horse from the Library, actually. I think i rezzed it just to see what it looked like
Kat Lemieux: It's just one prim, so I simply left it out
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Wol Euler: :-)
Kat Lemieux: Well, castles tend to have lots of empty corners....
Pema Pera: :>)

The conversation returns to watery matters. 

Kat Lemieux: I've never known anyone with a pet jellyfish before
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: To continue the watery theme: Gaya, hvae you read the log recently in which Adelene and Gen were talking about watery beings? (can't find it, had it open just a moment ago)
Gaya Ethaniel: It is a gift from someone I adore...
Wol Euler: ah :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: No... pls point out which one Wol?
Gaya Ethaniel is well behind her blog and reading various logs...
Wol Euler flips back and forth, trying to find it.
Gaya Ethaniel thanks Wol
Kat Lemieux: Florida has been on my mind lately, with the storm news. Lots of my family live in Melbourne, FL where they got 27" of rain in the last 2 days
Kat Lemieux: (Speaking of under water)
Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds serious Kat
Wol Euler: good god.
Kat Lemieux: Well, not that bad. My brotehr says the ducks love it
Pema Pera: haha
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Kat Lemieux: He sent me pictures of his front yard, with ducks.
Wol Euler: lol
Kat Lemieux: Can't see where the pond ends and yard begins
Pema Pera: that's how much rain we get in Holland in a whole year . . . .
Wol Euler: that's the spirit!
Wol Euler: and when the storm is over, you can roast the ducks with a red wine sauce!
Kat Lemieux: I think the drought is over
Wol Euler: (sorry)
Gaya Ethaniel: Shame Wol... I'm a veggie, sounds like you are a good cook
Kat Lemieux: ;-) Sounds good, actually. Had duck for dinner about a week ago that could have used that sauce
Wol Euler: ah, Gagya, the things you miss.
Kat Lemieux: One of the best cooks I know is a vegan
Gaya Ethaniel: O.o
Wol Euler: ha, there she is again: our hungarian friend.
Gaya Ethaniel misses loads of things
Gaya Ethaniel listens
Wol Euler: Kat, does s/he cook purely vegan?
Kat Lemieux: yes, she does
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: I 'miss' eating meat?
Kat Lemieux: Also grows many of her own herbs & veggies
Gaya Ethaniel: 'missing out'*
Gaya Ethaniel: Don't feel that way...
Wol Euler grins
Kat Lemieux: Even had an olive grove for awhile, but had to rip it out because of some kind of insect infestation
Kat Lemieux: glasswings
Wol Euler: wow
Gaya Ethaniel: What a shame... olive groves take a lot of work I heard
Kat Lemieux: She's in California, where the glasswing is attacking the grapes
Kat Lemieux: YEs, she only got 2 crops
Wol Euler: pity.
Kat Lemieux: Very
Kat Lemieux: I think of Matilda every time I eat olive tepanade
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: ah :-)
Wol Euler: found it! 2008-08-19 13:00 "Gluecksdrachen"
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks!
Wol Euler: (sorry, it's on my laptop, I can't just paste the link)
Gaya Ethaniel: No worries, already found it
Wol Euler: Adelene was talking about how she sees us as animals or birds or (in Pema's and Gen's cases) fish.
Gaya Ethaniel: It's not on wiki
Wol Euler: ???? yes, surely.
Gaya Ethaniel presses refresh button
Pema Pera: not everybody is quick to put it on wiki
Pema Pera: which is the main reason that autorecording is so sorely needed
Pema Pera: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah Adele
Wol Euler blushes and covers her eyes.
Gaya Ethaniel: Adele took a long time to figure out what she think 'I am'
Pema Pera: I'm spending many hours a week both keeping the old blog going and poking people to add to wiki . . . :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Thought Adele sees Pema as a dragon?
Wol Euler: yse, buts specifically a water-dragon :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Gaya Ethaniel: Adele hasn't quite worked out about me yet...
Wol Euler: found it, Gen got the page title wrong, I'll correct that.
Wol Euler: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?...cksdrachen_%22
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Pema Pera: ah!
Gaya Ethaniel: The page must be filed incorrectly...
Wol Euler: I was going to ask, you clearly have an affinity for water and the ocean, do you see yourself as aquatic (not necessarily a fish)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Gaya Ethaniel reads
Gaya Ethaniel: Nope Adele doesn't see me aquatic... I don't either...
Gaya Ethaniel: It's part of my *pattern* perhaps

Adams joins us, now we are five. <small>A childrens' literature joke-ette for those of a certain age and cultural background.</small>

Wol Euler: morning adams, you are up early - or late
Kat Lemieux: HI Adams
Adams Rubble: Good morning everyone (yawn) :)
Pema Pera: morning Adams!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble stetches
Gaya Ethaniel: Adele did mention something interesting... she can't work 'me' out but for now she sees me as a cocoon...
Wol Euler: phone, brb
Gaya Ethaniel: or an egg
Gaya Ethaniel: k
Gaya Ethaniel: This was after I created my sphere btw...
Wol Euler: back
Gaya Ethaniel: She's quite perceptive...
Wol Euler: ah!
Wol Euler: that is fascinating.
Wol Euler: About-to-be-Being
Gaya Ethaniel: When she mentioned that... she didn't know or see what I was building
Gaya Ethaniel: ah that's kind of you Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: She can't see what's inside or what will come out of the cocoon she said
Wol Euler: :-)
Pema Pera: yes, Adelene is perceptive, her mentioning of water element and dragon aspects are certainly correct for me
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls say more Pema
Pema Pera: well, water is the element I seem to have most affinity with
Kat Lemieux: A good thing for a Dutchman!
Wol Euler: lol
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pema Pera: hahaha!
Pema Pera: useful yeah
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler: "know your enemy"
Gaya Ethaniel fears ocean...
Pema Pera: no earthquakes, no vulcanoes, no hurricanes . . . only water to worry about in Holland.
Pema Pera: but not everyone in Holland is mostly water related in elements though :-)
Wol Euler: well, Gaya, I wondered. That is my impression of you, so I was susprised at your film reference and watery sphere.
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Gaya Ethaniel: Why I fear water?
Wol Euler: not as such, why you are on and near the water in SL.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Wol Euler struggles to clarify her thoughts.
Gaya Ethaniel: I find it peaceful to be away from water in SL and RL
Gaya Ethaniel: Yet at times I am drawn to water
Gaya Ethaniel: Othertime, I use water to 'shut down'
Gaya Ethaniel: Use it in diff ways...
Gaya Ethaniel: Remember Three Colours by Kieslowski?
Gaya Ethaniel: Blue where Binoche jumps into a pool and stays under water?
Gaya Ethaniel: I do that...
Wol Euler: I've only seen "white", the composer.
Wol Euler: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: She hears the theme of the symphony
Gaya Ethaniel: I get that...
Gaya Ethaniel: with flashing lights.. sometimes beating with my heart or something else
Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds all a bit weird telling you this...
Gaya Ethaniel: ah Red is my favourite - universal love
Gaya Ethaniel: white is about equality - in the film between the couple...
Wol Euler smiles. It's all Being, it's all Life.
Gaya Ethaniel: I remember... the other day Cal told me to consult professionals...
Gaya Ethaniel: Don't think I'm mad... am I?
Wol Euler: lol. No.
Gaya Ethaniel sighs
Wol Euler: (not that I am a professional, of course)
Gaya Ethaniel: I can see why you like white Wol... you like tango...
Wol Euler: or at least: no more mad than most of us.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'you are better far better than one of my counsellor Wol believe me'

The round world claims its tribute: dinner time for Pema. 

Pema Pera: ah, the bell! . . . . dinner time here for me
Wol Euler: bon appetit!
Pema Pera: good seeing you all here
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: thank you!
Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
Wol Euler: bye pema
Kat Lemieux: Since"normal" just means "what most people are", I'm perfectly content to not be normal
Pema Pera: see you all next time, some time of day!
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Kat Lemieux: Se you later, Pema!
Wol Euler: Kat, I see a distinction between "normal" and "average".
Gaya Ethaniel listens
Adams Rubble: /surprised to see Wol so talkative :)
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Kat Lemieux: Look at the technical definition, though. That is what it means
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: mmm, no, there is a distinction IMHO. Average means what most people _actually_ do. Normal means to me the range of things that people _might_ do without breaking rules or boundaries.
Wol Euler: Homosexuality is normal but it is not average.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: Genius is normal but it is not average.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: Being vegan is normal but it is not average.
Kat Lemieux: But "normal" means within the norm. And the norm is arbitrary
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: average = ordinary?
Wol Euler: true, but average is a specific _point_ within that range of "the norm"
Kat Lemieux: "Norm" also varies depending on the culture
Wol Euler: of course.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: Norms change... in all cultures
Wol Euler: normal here in SL is very different from the avearage of the cultures we live in.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: we read more words per day than the average American does in a month, in our chat.
Adams Rubble: No!!?!

Adams caught me red-handed. If I don't have a statistic handy to prove a point of which I am certain, I will invent one &mdash; but always within what I consider a reasonable tolerance. In this case, I am willing to bet that I am right to within an order of magnitude, because I know from <i>real</i> statistics that most people do not read.

Kat Lemieux: Normal in SL is an oxymoron ;-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel knows what oxymoron means but always feel puzzled by this word...
Kat Lemieux: Yeah, /me wonders about the etymology of that word....
Kat Lemieux: Must look it up
Wol Euler: SL has its own normal. Normal here is: comfortable in a written culture (not oral), owning at least one computer, having plenty of spare time, choosing _not_ to spend that time watching TV.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: these things are normal here but far from average in RL.
Adams Rubble: from Greek pointedly foolish
Kat Lemieux: Hmmm. I have a Greek dictionary, too. Wil definitely have to do some research
Gaya Ethaniel: So what's 'normal' in SL is pontedly foolish... hm... what does this mean?
Wol Euler: lol
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: being as play.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Gaya Ethaniel looks up at Wol again
Adams Rubble: no etymology, not meaning
Kat Lemieux: being as word play
Adams Rubble: oxymoron is a contraduction of terms
Kat Lemieux: right, etymology is not always a path to semantics
Adams Rubble: something which can't be
Gaya Ethaniel looks up again at Wol with respect
Wol Euler: lol, ty.
Gaya Ethaniel: So oxymoron... implies paradox?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Kat Lemieux: A kind of paradox
Gaya Ethaniel: kind of?
Kat Lemieux: self-contradictory
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls say more?
Wol Euler: like "a loud silence"
Kat Lemieux: Paradox is not always self-contradicton
Kat Lemieux: or "jumbo shirmp"
Wol Euler: as you said about hte silent sound of being.
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
Gaya Ethaniel: When is paradox self contradiction? never seen such paradox...
Gaya Ethaniel: ah.. ok Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: hearing with blown ear drums...
Gaya Ethaniel: not quite silence...
Kat Lemieux: From wikipedia: An oxymoron (plural oxymorons or, more rarely, oxymora) is a figure of speech that combines two normally contradictory terms. Oxymoron is a loanword from Greek oxy ("sharp" or "pointed") and moros ("dull"). Thus the word oxymoron is itself an oxymoron.
Wol Euler: lol
Gaya Ethaniel thanks Kat
Wol Euler <3 wikipedia.
Gaya Ethaniel: Words... 'thinking' about words don't work for me... I'm letting this one go
Kat Lemieux: Oxymorons are a proper subset of the expressions called contradictions in terms. What distinguishes oxymorons from other paradoxes and contradictions is that they are used intentionally, for rhetorical effect, and the contradiction is only apparent, as the combination of terms provides a novel expression of some concept, such as "cruel to be kind".
Adams Rubble: Wikipedia and my Etomoligical dictionary do not agree on the greek
Kat Lemieux: Not terribly surprising
Gaya Ethaniel often gets confused about people using this phrase "cruel to be kind"
Wol Euler: yes, true, that's the point.
Gaya Ethaniel: How is that possible?
Wol Euler: spanking a child to drive home a lesson?
Wol Euler: out of fashion these days, of course.
Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
Wol Euler: or "tough love", as Pema was giving Adams a few weeks ago.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Wol Euler has a noon appointment out of town, and will need to stat preparing. I'll be intermitttent for a while.
Gaya Ethaniel: So good intention is important when giving 'tough love'
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
Adams Rubble: hope so

The timezones claim their second victim. 

Kat Lemieux needs to practice some self-tough love and get some sleep.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Kat. Pleasure talking to you.
Adams Rubble: Kat, have I met you before?
Kat Lemieux: It's been nice meeting you all!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: bye kat, take care.
Kat Lemieux: No, Adams, I don't think so
Adams Rubble: yes Kay, bye. Noce to meet you
Adams Rubble surprised the pavilion looks the same at the 1:00 meeting. She imagined something exotic
Gaya Ethaniel: exotic?
Adams Rubble: Dark, colored lights
Gaya Ethaniel: Table looks black rather than red on my screen...
Adams Rubble: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Goes well with the colours of somber cushions...
Adams Rubble: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Tad Japanesey
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Compared to the previous setting, red table with orange cushions...
Adams Rubble: I liked your descriptions of the colors
Gaya Ethaniel thanks Adams
Adams Rubble: very poetic
Gaya Ethaniel: poetic?
Adams Rubble: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: oh thank you... didn't know I was doing anything remotely like that...

And a third departure soon follows. 

Adams Rubble: I am going back to slep. I wanted o make a 1:00 meeeting finally
Gaya Ethaniel: Was good to talk Adams
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope you get good rest
Adams Rubble: Yes, thank you. bye :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: ok, ready, I have to go.
Wol Euler: It was nice to talk to you today, Gaya.
Wol Euler: take care, have a nice afternoon; see you this evening possibly.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_