2008.08.24 07:00 - Hell

The Guardian for this meeting was apparently no-one but Fael was there. Comments are Fael's.

 When I arrived at the meeting, Adams was already there.

Adams Rubble: Hell fael :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Hello
Adams Rubble: How are you today?
Fael Illyar: I'm good, you?
Adams Rubble: OK, I'm geting around much better than I thought I would
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: around ... what?
Adams Rubble: Walking around the house. I had a few brief walks outside
Adams Rubble: I have to keep reminding myself to go slowly
Fael Illyar: Ah, your leg
Fael Illyar: Sounds positive :)
Adams Rubble: Yes, it is encouraging :)
Adams Rubble: Hmm lag
Adams Rubble: tehre it is

Avastu arrives.

Fael Illyar: Hi Avastu :)
Adams Rubble: Hell Avastu :)
Adams Rubble: Hello
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Avastu Maruti: friends
Adams Rubble: I am having trouble with "o"s this morning
Fael Illyar: so it seems :)
Faenik: なるほど^^
Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to talk about?
Fael Illyar: Somehow, not quite.
Adams Rubble: Ah
Adams Rubble: I have been chasing my tail for a couple of days and am just beginning to settle down so I am no help with a topic

Adams tries to tell us she's no help with a topic while introducing a very good one.

Fael Illyar: ah, but that sounds like a wonderful topic :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Dizzying
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: what tail is this?
Adams Rubble: Just the proverbial tail
Adams Rubble: In Pema's terms, I was trying to help God
Fael Illyar: Ah
Adams Rubble: How foolish these mortals be - Shakespeare
Fael Illyar: like a child wanting to help her mother but not quite able to.
Adams Rubble: Yes, that one Fael
Adams Rubble is thinking that this is my favorite combination of table top and curtain with the painting

Sudden topic change.

Fael Illyar falls down laughing.
Adams Rubble: There is an interesting combination of bird sounds in SL with real brids here in RL
Adams Rubble: I am having trouble figuring which is which
Fael Illyar: Yes, that's always fun to listen to real and SL ones mixed :)
Faenik: ah :)

Then it shifts naturally back ... interesting the way it happened.

Adams Rubble: I really expected to be seeing more since my insight last weekend. I am surprised that nothing has appaared to me
Adams Rubble: Storm yesterday said that it is like driving
Fael Illyar: are you expecting to see something?
Adams Rubble: He likes to take the car out of gearand let it coast
Adams Rubble: Yes I was Fael
Fael Illyar: that's why nothing appears.
Adams Rubble: I think it is more subtle
Avastu Maruti smiles
Avastu Maruti: you said you are hearing the birds...
Adams Rubble: yes
Avastu Maruti: what else are you waiting for?
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: Really, what else are you waiting for?
Adams Rubble: There are years of habits...one forgets
Fael Illyar: yes?
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: Avastu has reminded me
Avastu Maruti: and what replaces the birdsong, that makes one forget?
Faenik: ah :)

A reminder to not get caught in the side effects but continue on the path.

Adams Rubble: Struggle with identity, sgtruggle with "self"
Fael Illyar: why struggle?
Avastu Maruti: and these thoughts of struggle - aren't they also seen or heard, just like the bird?
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Thank you
Faenik: indeed?
Adams Rubble: It is interesting that I am finding the need to be reminded
Adams Rubble: But I can watch that too :)
Fael Illyar: It's good to be aware of such needs :)
Adams Rubble: Hell Quen :)
Adams Rubble: Hello
Fael Illyar: Hello Quen :)
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
quen Oh: hello all
Adams Rubble has'nt got a greeting right yet this morning
quen Oh: lol
quen Oh: hell...
Avastu Maruti: it's definitely Sunday because Adams keeps referring to hell

This is the first joke I've seen from Avastu :) Surprise and amusement follow.

quen Oh: lol
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar falls down laughing
Adams Rubble checks the o key
quen Oh: nice coffee table discussion on hell?
Fael Illyar: It's an interesting topic, yes :)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: Hell is a place where we do not see :)

Cal appears.

Fael Illyar: Hi Cal :)
Adams Rubble: (unless it is a truncated greeting)
Adams Rubble: Hello Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: hey there :)
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Avastu Maruti: I mean Hell my friend
quen Oh: hello Caledonia
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar falls down laughing.
Adams Rubble paused at the o button that time
quen Oh: am hell is something we create ourselves..
Adams Rubble: Cal, they are notong that I have had trouble geting the greeting right this morning
quen Oh: lol
Fael Illyar: Yes, Hell is a state of not seeing we create ourselves.

And then she was gone... Maybe topic changing to Hell wasn't to her taste?

Adams Rubble: Cal is gone
quen Oh: why not seeing?
Adams Rubble: Of course, Fael
Adams Rubble: Quen, by not seeing we can create shadows for ourselves
quen Oh: ???
Adams Rubble: hmmm
quen Oh: not sure by not seeing there is just something less drawing my attention?
Avastu Maruti: I think, by seeing, they mean "knowing"
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: not seeing ... or false knowing.
Adams Rubble: Sorry, phone call...done
quen Oh: is still puzzled.. not knowing or seeing is a general human condition, we are not omniscient..
Adams Rubble: Over the three months I have been in PaB, I have been learning the many ways I do not see, Quen
Adams Rubble: In fact, this morning, Avastu and Fael reminded me I was forgetting to se clearly
quen Oh: so we can be aware of our limitations in not knowing / seeing... but to be aware of 'what' you are not seeing and talk in shadows... I don't see
Faenik: could be
Adams Rubble: Yes, it can be confusing
Avastu Maruti: seeing/knowing is a function of the "I" as long as that body-mind and "ego-image" is still the source of identification
Adams Rubble: I expect Avastu will step in and help but let me try
Adams Rubble: :)
Avastu Maruti: yet we may become aware that this "I", this "image" also appears IN the seeing
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
quen Oh: you mean the division we make between ourselves and everything outside ourselves applied on ourself ;-)
quen Oh: gosh love complicated sentences pff

Somehow this session is really going at the base of things.

Adams Rubble: :)
Avastu Maruti: isn't this "division" created as a concept in the mind?
Avastu Maruti: how do you know there is really an "inside"and an "outside"?
quen Oh: so that we see a body - mind but that does not really correspond to what we perceive as being us...
quen Oh: its just the way our mind seems to work
Avastu Maruti: the thought "I AM" is a translation in the mind of that ever-present presence of seeing/knowing
Avastu Maruti: simply recognize that this seeing/knowing never leaves, never changes, is never affected by the experience it reflects
quen Oh: seems we continuously divide what we perceive as our self and what we meet
Faenik loves wells!
quen Oh: well not sure, concept of the I seems a sum total of the past, what is made by all the experiencing, conditioning
Avastu Maruti smiles
Avastu Maruti: pardon my friends... brb

Avastu leaves for a moment.

Adams Rubble: OK
quen Oh: but that is obviously not the I, as that is death and something (the seeing) is constantly changing and renewing that
quen Oh: ah too bad he is gone
quen Oh: *death = dead I meant
Adams Rubble: When Avstu smiles, it means you said something that is on mark :)

Gilles appears but it takes a while for anyone to react.

quen Oh: well like to make people smile ;-)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: I have been learning to see past all the games my "self" is playing through some of the exercies that Pema has guven us
Fael Illyar: Yes, smiling people are nice to look at :)
Fael Illyar: all ofthem? really?

I notice a dangerous looking assumption in Adams's line and try to point it out.

Adams Rubble: It has not been a straight path
quen Oh: what exercise
quen Oh: ?
Fael Illyar: Hi Gilles
quen Oh: hello Gilles
Gilles Kuhn: hello all
Adams Rubble: One is the YsBS (You see, being see) where we first try to look at what we see anf then imagine what Being sees
Adams Rubble: There are variations (Enlightened you see or God see) depending on what works for an individual

Avastu returns.

Fael Illyar: wb Avastu :)
Adams Rubble: wb Avastu
Avastu Maruti: Hell my friends
Adams Rubble: But then Pema had me start to wtahc the images that are created when I see
Fael Illyar: Hell Avastu :)
Adams Rubble: Hello to you too :)
Adams Rubble: Haha
Adams Rubble: I tried not to type the o and I typed it :)
Fael Illyar: do not try, do :)
Gilles Kuhn: ao on
Adams Rubble: Hello Gilles :)
quen Oh: welcome back Avastu
quen Oh: I mean hell Avastu ;-)
Avastu Maruti: ty Quen
Gilles Kuhn: re hello adams
Adams Rubble: Gilles, have you been here before?
quen Oh: you have talked with him before I was there
Adams Rubble: Oh sorry :)
quen Oh: if
quen Oh: i am correct
Gilles Kuhn: well as i rez from log on here it must implie that.....
quen Oh: he was a yellow lion then

The topic then changes to talking about animals.

Adams Rubble: Ah, Gilles was the bear who turned into a lion
Gilles Kuhn: gosh i h
quen Oh: in fact he was a wolf
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I am not good with animals :)
Gilles Kuhn: gosh i have alway to teach zoology......
Adams Rubble: :)
quen Oh: lol
Faenik loves wells!
Adams Rubble thinks she will have to go back and correct the log
quen Oh: mmm what was this btw? [7:50] Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: O fael's shoulder...
Adams Rubble: On
Faenik snuggles more closely on Fael's shoulder.

Faenik makes his presence more apparent.

Fael Illyar: Hi Doug
Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
quen Oh: ah lol funny
quen Oh: hello Faenik
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
quen Oh: hello Doug
Faenik: Hell Quen
quen Oh: hihi
quen Oh grins
Gilles Kuhn: i gather the topic of today is hell ?

There we go, title suggestion. Accepted.

quen Oh: and how that is not seeing...
Adams Rubble needs to learn to type
Fael Illyar: It's almost Guardian meeting now though.
quen Oh is in some kind of hell as she still doesn't really see how...
Adams Rubble: Yes, some if us have to go now. You all are welcome to stay and chat :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Quen, Gilles :)
Avastu Maruti: gdbye my friend
Fael Illyar waves goodbye.
Gilles Kuhn: well i prefer the depiction of hell of bosh its paradisiac to see them....
quen Oh: bye Fael and Faenik

Gilles and quen stay behind while the rest of us leave for Guardian meeting.