2008.08.19 13:00 - Gluecksdrachen

The Guardian for today's session was Genesis Zhangsun below are her comments.

I entered saw Wol and then crashed I returned to find Wol and Adelene as a beautiful color changing water dragon....

Wol Euler: wb again, Gen.
Adelene Dawner: I'm actually 'being' someone else today - this av is not 'me', but 'Pema' - I've been working on a color-change script to match the pattern I see in him. ^.^
Adelene Dawner: Hiya Gen
Wol Euler: ah :-)
genesis Zhangsun: crashed again
genesis Zhangsun: hey Adelene!
Adelene Dawner: 'lo Gen!
Wol Euler: oh, yes, that's right, you mentioned that you saw him like taht.
genesis Zhangsun: wow what is this look
genesis Zhangsun: I think I know
genesis Zhangsun: do I know?
Adelene Dawner: I did just say it ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: are u a water dragon?
Wol Euler: marvellous av in any case.
Adelene Dawner is Pema, right now, av-wise. ^.
genesis Zhangsun: oops sorry I missed that I was still rezzing
Adelene Dawner: (friggin' shapeshifter ^.^)
genesis Zhangsun: I agree I think he is a shape shifter too
genesis Zhangsun: really wonderful these insights you have into people as creatures
Adelene Dawner: I can't say much - I identify with Crow, but there's more than a little Phoenix in me, and that's a form of shapeshifting, too - and a much more dramatic one at that.
Wol Euler nods
Adelene Dawner: Did I mention what I saw of you, Gen?

Adelene often identifies people with animals upon meeting them or soon after.  I had the pleasure to meet Adelene in NYC the previous week.

genesis Zhangsun: oh my please tell me!
Adelene Dawner: Well, I haven't gotten it pinned down yet. But you're definitely pretty firmly aquatic - fish, dolphin, whale, starfish, something like that.
Wol Euler: ooh
genesis Zhangsun: something water based
genesis Zhangsun: that sounds right
Adelene Dawner: Very much so
genesis Zhangsun: I identify very much with fish
genesis Zhangsun: they have appeared in some rather important dreams for me
Wol Euler: interseting.
genesis Zhangsun: Wol what animal/life form would you identify yourself with?
genesis Zhangsun: raven?
Wol Euler: hmmmm, tricky.
genesis Zhangsun: Adelene is that what u are?
Adelene Dawner: Crow. With a bit of phoenix flame. ^.^
Wol Euler: at times I can see many animals in myself, but never fish and seldom birds.
Adelene Dawner: I've noticed, and am still discovering, a system of symbolism in my metaphors. Flight means something specific. Being an omnivore means something specific. Being smart means something specific. Having a certain kind of flock- or pack-life means something specific. Being aquatic means something specific, but I don't know what yet.
Wol Euler nods.
Adelene Dawner doesn't think she'd noticed anyone being aquatic, before. But Gen and Pema both are.
Wol Euler: http://www.crows.net/
Adelene Dawner: ooooo
genesis Zhangsun: that is interesting Adelene
genesis Zhangsun: tell me when u know what it means I'd love to know
Adelene Dawner: Yup ^.^
Wol Euler: the more I think about that, Adelene, the more I like it. Pema flashes and glitters and darts about, impossible to lay a hand on him.
Adelene Dawner: *yes*.
Adelene Dawner: ;P
genesis Zhangsun: thats a nice way to put it Wol
genesis Zhangsun: you have such a way with words
Wol Euler: well, I wouldn't have thought of the image had Adelene not triggered me to think of himt hat way.
Wol Euler: and ty :-)

Wol talks a bit about her attachment to words...

Wol Euler: I think sometimes taht my way with words may be an attachment :-)
genesis Zhangsun: yes? more on that?
Wol Euler: I use them as a magician uses his sleeves, guide people's attention where I want it, away from where I don't want it.
Adelene Dawner: I think that him being aquatic is part of the reason I have such trouble communicating with him sometimes... we both understand that 'current' is something unusual, different from what most people experience, but air currents are *not* the same as water currents, and we have trouble seeing the differences. (To stretch a metaphor all out of shape, anyway ^.^)
Adelene Dawner: Seeing and accounting for, I mean.
Wol Euler nods
genesis Zhangsun: hmm yes interesting Adelene the sensation is the same but the appearance different
genesis Zhangsun: Wol when did u notice this attachment?
genesis Zhangsun: is it recent?
Adelene Dawner: And the way of using it is different, too... diving in the water is not the same as diving in the air.
genesis Zhangsun: good point Adelene
Wol Euler: I've always suspected it of myself actually. But being here and watching Pema debating, seeing him use rhetorical tricks that I too sometimes use, brought it home.
Adelene Dawner: ^.^ @ Wol
Wol Euler: do fish feel gravity, I wonder? Birds do, birds cann fall.
Adelene Dawner: mmm. Fish don't, from what I know of 'em. Swim bladders.
Wol Euler nods. Right. No gravity, then, just buoyancy.

Gaya or gagya comes in to join us

Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adelene Dawner caws ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: Back to your point about words I often find that our strongest points can be the last holdouts for the self
Wol Euler: hello gagya.
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Gaya!
Wol Euler: *gaya
genesis Zhangsun: *of the self
Gaya Ethaniel: gagya <smile>
Wol Euler: sounds hungarian.
Gaya Ethaniel ponders on 'gagya'
genesis Zhangsun: lol
Gaya Ethaniel zooms on Adele
Adelene Dawner feels watched. @.@ ^.-
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
genesis Zhangsun: its easy to let go of the things we dislike ourselves harder to let go of the things we pride ourselves on
Wol Euler: yes, true. Attachment indeed.
genesis Zhangsun: I had a wonderful experience with this recently
Wol Euler: mm?

Spacing out and experience addiction

genesis Zhangsun: yes it was an experience of space
Gaya Ethaniel likes the sparkly features on Adele
genesis Zhangsun: well that is maybe starting at the end
Gaya Ethaniel: / feathers*
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: the beginning started with recognizing that one of my greatest attachments even addiction is to experience itself
Wol Euler: in the sense of "variety", Gen?
genesis Zhangsun: I realized I was an experience addict
genesis Zhangsun: yes
genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences

Pema comes in and graces us with his presence

Wol Euler: hello pema
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Pema
Pema Pera: Hi There!
Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, Gen, Adeene, Wol!
Adelene Dawner *must* show off. ^.^
Wol Euler: yes, you must!!!!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: heheheh
Pema Pera: WWOOOOWWWW
Pema Pera: so much shape shifting . . . .
Wol Euler giggles
Adelene Dawner: hold on, the script takes a few minutes to get pretty.

and soon after so did Quilty...

Pema Pera: hi Quilty!
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Quilty :)
Quilty Bookmite: hi all.
Wol Euler: hello quilty
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry to drop in late.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: no such thing as late ;)
genesis Zhangsun: just good timing
Wol Euler: "differently punctual"
Gaya Ethaniel: Lovely to see you Quilty
Adelene Dawner snerks at Wol.
Quilty Bookmite: Thanks. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Sudden lag...
Pema Pera: I hope I didn't interrupt! The first line I saw when coming in was:
Pema Pera: genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences
Pema Pera: may I ask what the discussion was about?
Wol Euler: y'know, I am *totally* embodied in SL. I thought "how can Adelene type when she needs to stand on all four paws?"
genesis Zhangsun: lol
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: :-)

I immediately looked to Adelene's long dancing whiskers and apparently so did Pema!

genesis Zhangsun: she's using her whiskers
Pema Pera: hehe
Pema Pera: with her long whiskers perhaps, Wol?
Wol Euler: I guess.
Pema Pera: haha
Adelene Dawner laughs
genesis Zhangsun: lol
Pema Pera: synchronized swimming
Pema Pera: in thoughts
Quilty Bookmite: Dragons are powerful creatures in the east. Possibly through magic. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel cannot see Pema...
genesis Zhangsun: swimming yes nice way to put it
Pema Pera: is this the texture, Adelene?
Adelene Dawner: hm?
Pema Pera: the white with the mottled specks?
Pema Pera: (spelling??)
Gaya Ethaniel: Where is Pema?
Adelene Dawner: of the dragon? That's the scale texture it comes with. The color of the tint does change though.
Quilty Bookmite: two cushions to your left Gaya/

Gaya suddenly disappeared...SL was a bit unstable this day

genesis Zhangsun: lost her
genesis Zhangsun: SL is unstable today
Wol Euler:brb, something in my eye
Pema Pera: I didn't see much color change yet -- should I look better?
Adelene Dawner: hm, let me make it more dramatic for a moment.
Pema Pera: k
Pema Pera: wb Gaya!
genesis Zhangsun: wb
Quilty Bookmite: WB Gaya.
Pema Pera: okay, now I can see, yes
Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
Quilty Bookmite: Ganasis is still a cloud for me.
Pema Pera: shades of meaning, at least of color
Quilty Bookmite: _Genesis_
Adelene Dawner: there it goes.
Pema Pera: nice!
Gaya Ethaniel thanks
genesis Zhangsun: am i a cloud for everyone?
Pema Pera: like clouds passing
Pema Pera: no, Gen, you look fine to me
Gaya Ethaniel: gen is a grey AV sunked into the pavillion...
Pema Pera: Adelene looks like clouds passing
Pema Pera: in a wild thunderstorm
Adelene Dawner: *your* colors are much more subtle, but the scripted light source on the table here stops subtle colors from working right.
Gaya Ethaniel: Can't see Adele... Wol also stuck in the pavillion with some clothes on

The Never Ending Story

genesis Zhangsun: she looks a bit like the dragon in the Never Ending Story
Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
Quilty Bookmite: Adelene looks very colourful
Pema Pera: Gaya, if you zoom in on someone grey, they often then become full avatars and then you can zoom out again
Gaya Ethaniel is Offline
Quilty Bookmite: And changing colour all the time.
Pema Pera: So this is your representation of me, right, Adelen :-)
Pema Pera: *e
Adelene Dawner: Yup.
Pema Pera: nice!
Adelene Dawner: Mostly.
Pema Pera: And I like the association with Fuchur
Adelene Dawner: The face isn't the best match, but close.
Pema Pera: the Gluecksdrachen
genesis Zhangsun: yah ganow
Pema Pera: in English lucky dragon??? From never-ending story
Pema Pera: haha, genau ja
Adelene Dawner: yes ^.^ a favorite
Quilty Bookmite: A big cudly dragon?
Wol Euler: back
Pema Pera: cudly not quite
Adelene Dawner: The book was awesome, too - the second half, which didn't make it into a movie, was realyl something.
Pema Pera: yes!!
Pema Pera: I never saw the movie, but read the book, in German
Pema Pera: was very moving
Wol Euler: yes, me too. wasn't oit marvellous?
Pema Pera: and very insightful, in so many subtle ways
Adelene Dawner puts the script back where it belongs

Book Club?

Pema Pera: If we ever run out of things to do here, we could have a book reading club, all reading a chapter and talking about that, once a week . . . . but . . . so many other fun things to do too!
Wol Euler smiles. Good idea.
Adelene Dawner: 'if we ever'... blasphemy, Pem. ^.^
Pema Pera: hehe, how would you say it, Adelene?
genesis Zhangsun: I put Alice through the Looking Glass on the list
Pema Pera: sure, and the Little Prince
Quilty Bookmite: All childrens books?
Adelene Dawner: I donno, but we're not *ever* goona run out of stuff to talk about here...
Pema Pera: yup, for adults
Wol Euler: Monsieur Ibrahim and the Flowers of the Koran
Pema Pera: don't know that one
Quilty Bookmite: Terry Pratchett has written some excellent childrens books.
Adelene Dawner: Adults' books, too. ^.^
Wol Euler: ah :-) quite a treat, in the same vein as the Little prince
Pema Pera: and another Michael Ende book, Momo
Pema Pera: very PaB, about time !!
Quilty Bookmite: I loved reading the Harry Potter books but they are probably too popular. :-)
Pema Pera: actually, if we really really had lots of time (sorry, Adelene :), we could even act out one of those books, playing the characters -- SL lends itself to that!
Quilty Bookmite: Sounds like fun. :-)
Pema Pera: dragon looking for self reflection in table?
Adelene Dawner: Dragon trying to fit in a small pavilion. ^.^
Pema Pera: ah, through the looking glass!!
Wol Euler: heheheh

Newcomer Madell enters...and I return to earlier thread

Pema Pera: Hi Madell!
genesis Zhangsun: Wol could I ask u how u plan on addressing your attachment?
genesis Zhangsun: if at all?
genesis Zhangsun: sorry this was from an earlier thread
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Madell
Wol Euler: well, frankly I am not sure I will :-) because I do experience it as very positive, onthe whole.
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps the seeing of attachment is enough
Madell Magic: have i intruted?
Pema Pera: Please join us, Madell, have you been here before?
genesis Zhangsun: I commented on Wol's wonderful use of words
Pema Pera: not at all!
Pema Pera: anyone is welcome here
Madell Magic: no I have not
genesis Zhangsun: and she mentioned that it may be an attachment
Wol Euler: genesis Zhangsun: I think sometimes taht my way with words may be an attachment :-)
genesis Zhangsun: yes? more on that?
genesis Zhangsun: I use them as a magician uses his sleeves, guide people's attention where I want it, away from where I don't want it.
Madell Magic: /
genesis Zhangsun: thanks Wol
genesis Zhangsun: love the playing back to being?
Pema Pera: (madell, just on the side: what we are doing here is described on http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/)
Pema Pera: (we gather here four times a day, 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm, and anyone is welcome)
Wol Euler: that use is shall we say morally supect, but on the whole is is a large part of who I am. Giving up wordery would be play-acting .
Madell Magic: cool
Madell Magic: I have to make lunch. I might be back a little later
Pema Pera: fine!
genesis Zhangsun: yes that is perhaps why in dealing with attachments seeing may be enough
Madell Magic: thanks for letting me join
genesis Zhangsun: seeing the wave rise and fall
Wol Euler: ok, Madell, come back any time :-)
genesis Zhangsun: sure Madell feel free to come back!
Quilty Bookmite: you're welcome Madell.
Quilty Bookmite: I need to go. It's bedtime for me.
Wol Euler smiles. Good nihgt quilty.
genesis Zhangsun: ok nightie night

Quilty goes off to bed and Pema realizes that he has stayed up all night...

Wol Euler: ah, too late.
Pema Pera: Night, Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.
Pema Pera: I hear the Kyoto temple bell next doors, just one second before the bell here in SL :)
Pema Pera: well synchronized
Wol Euler: :-)
Pema Pera: it is 6 am here
Wol Euler: the bells in some German towns are deliberately de-synchronized, to give a "soundscape"
genesis Zhangsun: ah the joys of jetlag
Wol Euler: lol
Pema Pera: :-)
Wol Euler: it#s tomorrow, there!
Wol Euler: wow
genesis Zhangsun: living in the future
Adelene Dawner: 13 hours' difference, yikes.
Wol Euler: the roundness of the world bends my head.
Pema Pera: :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes I rather like this attachment Wol
genesis Zhangsun: ;)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: may I ask, what are you doing in Japan, Pema? Astrobusiness or Zennery?
Wol Euler: or just fun?
Pema Pera: everything
Pema Pera: formally work
Wol Euler: ah :)
Adelene Dawner: The thing with attachments it to realize that they're optional, really... if one is causing distress, it might make sense to drop it, but you don't have to... if one is useful, it might make sense to keep it, but you don't have to.
Pema Pera: and that is a big part
Wol Euler nods to Adelene
Pema Pera: but once I am here, of course I enjoy the world here, and friends, etc
Pema Pera: yes, Adelene

Caledonia enters...and I decided to stay I always enjoy sessions with Cal so much

Pema Pera: Hi Caledonia!!
Wol Euler: hello cal
genesis Zhangsun: nice point Adelene
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Cal!
Pema Pera: fancy to meet you here!
Pema Pera: may I come back to the very first line I heard here?
genesis Zhangsun: are u taking a break?
Pema Pera: oops, lost it from my buffer, oh well
Caledonia Heron: hi there :) things broke early today
Wol Euler: Pema Pera: I hope I didn't interrupt! The first line I saw when coming in was:
Pema Pera: genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences
Pema Pera: may I ask what the discussion was about?
Adelene Dawner: [13:37] MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Pema Pera (19m) [13:37] genesis Zhangsun: the desire to "collect" new experiences
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Wol Euler: :-)
Pema Pera: :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes there was a thread left undone
Pema Pera: now we are collecting old experiences!
Pema Pera: shame on me
Wol Euler: lol
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
Pema Pera: you collected my arrival as a new experience instead . . . .
Pema Pera: whether my arrival was desired is another matter . . . .
Wol Euler: ah shush.
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Adelene Dawner: Being is, Pem. *swats with tail(
Pema Pera: :)
genesis Zhangsun: is this a cue?
genesis Zhangsun: should I tie up?
Pema Pera: tie up the dragon?
Caledonia Heron: sounds kinky :)
Wol Euler: yes please, it would itnerest me
Adelene Dawner: o.O
Pema Pera: O.o
genesis Zhangsun: lol
Wol Euler: "tieing up the dragon" is a bit like "belling the cat". Nice idea, but pretty rough on whoever has to do it.
Adelene Dawner: Smart Wol. ^.^
Pema Pera: except if there is someone who is particularly good with cats, or dragons
genesis Zhangsun: dragon tamer
Adelene Dawner :Ps at Pema. ^.-
Pema Pera: foxes are easier, as in the Little Prince
Pema Pera: easier to tame
genesis Zhangsun: or rats like the pied piper
Pema Pera: even easier!
genesis Zhangsun: oh no are we off on another fairy tale trail
Wol Euler: lol
Wol Euler: back to the book clubs
Caledonia Heron: maybe a squizzle or two
Pema Pera: now you're talking, Cal!

Collecting experiences letting the collecting go...

genesis Zhangsun: I was telling Wol that one of my last "holdouts" as Stim would call it was my attachment to collecting experience
Pema Pera: once a squizzle is out of the bag, you can't get her back in
Pema Pera: AH! Now you're talking, hehe
Caledonia Heron: as tricky as tieing a dragon :)
Pema Pera: the long awaited answer!
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Pema Pera: I'm all ears, Gen
Wol Euler: lol
Pema Pera: in all seriousness :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes I commented that sometimes the thing we take the most pride in can be the last remaining holdouts of the self
Pema Pera: absolutely!
genesis Zhangsun: when I let this go then I could truly begin to experience the experience without any desire for possession
Pema Pera: it reminds me of Cal's experience sitting near the beach
genesis Zhangsun: yes?
genesis Zhangsun: Cal u want to say anything about this?
Pema Pera: surprised, since not looking for it, was that it, Cal?

Cal's experience of eternity

Caledonia Heron: I'm really taken with aspects of that event .. and another that has similar feel to it
Pema Pera: please do tell!
Caledonia Heron: no, not looking at at
Caledonia Heron: I have no idea how much time passed
Caledonia Heron: it could have been a while, it could have been a minute
Caledonia Heron: I can't reliably say
Wol Euler smiles.
Caledonia Heron: I didn't know what happened if anything until later
Caledonia Heron: remarkable really
Caledonia Heron: not your everyday thing
Wol Euler nudges Cal. Come and sit with us, Adelene won't bite.
Caledonia Heron: outside my direct comprehension
Caledonia Heron: :) super lag ... think I might crash
Caledonia Heron: ah, made it :)
Pema Pera: there was another such experience, apart from the beach one, Cal?
Caledonia Heron: yes, swinging in the hammock
Caledonia Heron: same sort of thing, not doing too much, listening to the insects sing
Caledonia Heron: same time slip - same "other" .... and when it stopped it was like a snap-to
Caledonia Heron: weird, ok, restful .... weird in that I can't categorize it
Pema Pera: when you do a 9-sec exploration, is it possible (or desirable) to try to open yourself for that kind of freedom?
Pema Pera: or would that feel too manipulative?
Pema Pera: there is a fine line there . . . .
Caledonia Heron: sure, it's possible ... but these things come when I'm not paying 9sec attention... and yes, I get that there's no attention being paid in 9sec, ... it's different though
Pema Pera: in what way different?
Caledonia Heron: however.... 9sec is never far from present so perhaps it primes the pump ... I don't really know, this isoutside the realm of my experience
Caledonia Heron: I think I'm trying to describe the difference between actively doing 9sec in a intentional way
Caledonia Heron: and the way sometimes, there is an "other" that is unbidden that occurs
Caledonia Heron: doesn't make a lot of sense
Pema Pera: makes loads of sense!
Pema Pera: What we can actively do is prime the pump
Pema Pera: but not create the ground water
Wol Euler nods
Pema Pera: the ground water is there, ready to come up, once the pump is willing to be a conduit
Caledonia Heron: yes, I can sense that ... there is an undercurrent that surfaces
Pema Pera: The role of memory is tricky -- wild experiences are wonderful, they help strengthen our faith that we're really onto something deeper and more real -- but then they tend to become a trap and we get attached to them . . . .
Caledonia Heron: yes, memory is unreliable
Caledonia Heron: and it sounds so blah blah
Pema Pera: the best way to use the memories of wonderful experiences, I think, is to let them motivate us to try harder and more frequently to step aside
Pema Pera: as Gen described
Pema Pera: we hear ya, Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: I wonder Pema, I come here to see if I hear other similar sorts of things
Caledonia Heron: everyone describes it differently, remembers it differently
Pema Pera: religions have devotion as a tool -- but then one tends to get stuck too much to the object of devotion and that has to drop away too then

Caledonia the brave pioneer without a tourist guide

Caledonia Heron: so it's hard to know if anything between one person to the next is the same sort of thing
Pema Pera: you're avoiding the religious helpings and trappings
Pema Pera: a brave and original path!
Pema Pera: authentic and therefore hard
Caledonia Heron: I guess... feeling pretty clueless
Pema Pera: but I certainly resonate with what you describe
Caledonia Heron: well, thanks , that is an important statement to hear :)
Pema Pera: as, I think, do Adelene, Gen, Wol -- don't you?
Caledonia Heron: but enough about me ... :)
Adelene Dawner: mmhmm ^.^
Wol Euler: indeed
Pema Pera: the reason it is so hard for you, Cal, is that by being non-religious you don't have the tourist guides that come with being religious
Pema Pera: you are an intrepid tourist with no books, no guides
Caledonia Heron: lol
Wol Euler: :-)
Pema Pera: so yes, you are totally clueless
Pema Pera: which is marvelous
Pema Pera: an inspiration for us all!
Caledonia Heron: swell
Caledonia Heron: I seriously doubt there is inspiration in that :)
Pema Pera: here we talk about practice and stages and levels, and you just go to the beach or sit in a hammock
Pema Pera: :-)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Pema Pera: the inspiration is that you show us that the guides are only guides, that the real thing is out there
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pema Pera: and that the clueless can be way ahead of us, while we're spending our time talking
Wol Euler: true. If it exists at all, it is in a hammock just as much as in a cloister.
Pema Pera: !!
genesis Zhangsun: knowledge is not information
Caledonia Heron: yes, makes sense ..... my little boat is drifting trying to make better sense... perhaps there is no sense to be had
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Pema Pera: oh, there is sense in some ways, I'm not advocating to stay clueless -- but it's a great start! Like emptying a tea cup before pooring new tea in it
Caledonia Heron: I wonder time to time what is next, how to do it better, can I live there?
genesis Zhangsun: its a constant refinement, a tuning in
genesis Zhangsun: yes I think some live there Cal
genesis Zhangsun: you could too
Pema Pera: what you wrote about cleaning out your RL life, simplifying, is a great step, a preparation, a gesture, letting new angles come in.
Caledonia Heron: yes, streamline .... I like the cleaness, the clarity ... by cleaness I don't mean dirt
Caledonia Heron: I like it here too Gen :)
Pema Pera: the joke is: we are all living there already, but we keep insisting that we have our problems preventing us from seeing -- like newborn baby cats keeping their eyes closed tightly . . . .
Caledonia Heron: here/there/here ... same
Caledonia Heron: yes, pretty funny joke too :)
Pema Pera: and when we really relax, at beach or in hammock, we sometimes forget to close the door/eyes/heart
Caledonia Heron: yes, that rings true
genesis Zhangsun: we are happy exactly where we are
genesis Zhangsun: a cat laying in the sun
Pema Pera: or a dragon :)
Wol Euler smiles
Caledonia Heron: so I don't know if talking about it to infinity is my way .... there is really no data to be had as it's already what's so
Pema Pera: yes, no data, but there is something we can "do" of sorts . . . . trickly to put into words. We can sort-of learn to let this openness inundate us . . .
Pema Pera: btw, when I talk about "stepping aside" I mean it in a very light way.
Pema Pera: stepping aside still has a bit too much "doing"
Pema Pera: not stepping in the way is better
Pema Pera: not doing
Caledonia Heron: no effort
Pema Pera: but even that is a subtle something
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: to see that nothing is needed can lead to real no-effort
Caledonia Heron: the infintesimal effort of no effort :)
Pema Pera: :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pema Pera: it's a circle. You see, by golly, I really don't need anything! Then effort drops away naturally. That then helps to open your eyes to see that in the first place, that nothing is needed
Caledonia Heron: I'm in a bit of a pickle, a dilemma of sorts about proceeding

Stepping into the maelstrom

Pema Pera: The problem is how to step into the circle
Pema Pera: the big maelstrom
Pema Pera: the 9-sec explorations are little eddies
Pema Pera: to help you reach the maelstrom
Caledonia Heron: are you in the maelstrom?
Pema Pera wonders whether this is not too wild a metaphor :-)
Pema Pera: more and more, yes
Pema Pera: in a way my whole life has been a growth in that direction
Caledonia Heron: thinking one day you will not show up :)
genesis Zhangsun: the eye of the storm is the safest place :)
Pema Pera: but there are mile stones along the way
Pema Pera: :)
Caledonia Heron: and what might those be?
Pema Pera: I'm only just beginning, Cal, not to worry !
Pema Pera: Stim might not show up one day, that's another story
Caledonia Heron: lol

Pema's milestone 3 years ago...

Pema Pera: the biggest single mile stone was three years ago
Pema Pera: a switch from finding myself more and more often "at the beach" and "inthe hammock" triggered by all kind of practices, to realizing how easy it was to open up and let that happend, WITHOUT any kind of practice, or power or esoteric anything
Pema Pera: The best comparison I can think of is toilet training -- an odd metaphor
Wol Euler: o.O
Caledonia Heron: one day you know how?
Pema Pera: suddenly you find that there are muscles you didn't know you had, and didn't know how to use
Pema Pera: and then you realize that you have them, can use them, and it's all very easy
Pema Pera: effortless
Pema Pera: well, it is both gradual and sudden
Caledonia Heron: yes like a muscle memory of sorts .... I thought that, not openly, but like, I've been here feeling
Wol Euler: wb gaya
Pema Pera: I have had more and more intuitions nad more and more experiences, but then, three years ago, I realized how to let it happen without tools, tricks, effort
Pema Pera: hi Gaya!
genesis Zhangsun: wb Gaya!
genesis Zhangsun: or gagya
Caledonia Heron: which was?
Pema Pera: May I give another metaphor , a more pleasant one?
Wol Euler: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Caledonia Heron: lol, ok
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Pema Pera: I remember the day that I lost interest in playing in a children's play ground
Wol Euler fears she will never live that down.
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pema Pera: I went down a slide, and suddenly realized there was no need to do that anymore
Gaya Ethaniel zooms around Adele
genesis Zhangsun: brb
Pema Pera: that I could get the same sense of "fun" in other ways
Pema Pera: but these are all limited metaphors . . . .
Caledonia Heron: sure, and clues nontheless
Gaya Ethaniel: Beautiful Adele... is this Pema?
genesis Zhangsun: back
Adelene Dawner: Got it in one, Gaya.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
genesis Zhangsun: Cal thanks for sharing
Pema Pera: Allow me to make one more feeble attempt, Cal, to explain
genesis Zhangsun: we haven't been a session together in a long time
Caledonia Heron: ok, wwe all go our own way on this... I appreciate the descriptions, it informs me better :)
Pema Pera: and then I'll shut up, promise!
Caledonia Heron: me too :)
genesis Zhangsun: and I just want you to know I am there too!
Caledonia Heron: sorry to blah blah you
Caledonia Heron: :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes Pema!
genesis Zhangsun: continue...

Wol leaves us...what a marathon session this is...
Wol Euler: (sorry, my dears, too tired. I must go to bed! Good night, thanks for the great conversation)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Caledonia Heron: bye Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: Sweet dreams Wol
Adelene Dawner: 'night Wol
genesis Zhangsun: bye Wol!
Wol Euler: bye, take care.
Pema Pera: it felt like I had been painting sky pictures for 35 years, more and more accurately, and then I found out I could open my closed windows and watch the sky, without any practice, training, effort -- it was there. That was three years ago, and since then I have learned to simply open the window. End of story!
Caledonia Heron: sounds like a beginning more :)
genesis Zhangsun: that is beautiful
Pema Pera: (end of today's story -- have to go out for breakfast :)
Caledonia Heron: lol
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Pema Pera: Thanks, Cal, wonderful to hear your way of exploring all this!
genesis Zhangsun: what about then bringing the perspective from opening the window back to the painting
Caledonia Heron: ok you're welcome, I think :) mostly a lot of confusion
genesis Zhangsun: surely you can paint a better sky now then before
Pema Pera: that's what I'm trying to do here, Gen :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: better than a paintin
Adelene Dawner: o.O
genesis Zhangsun: oops painting
genesis Zhangsun: I am walking in it
Pema Pera: but mostly what I like to do is to have all of us open our windows
Gaya Ethaniel loves the emoticon Adele typed
Pema Pera: but we seem to have to start with paintings :-)
genesis Zhangsun: then we'll be painting a better picture together better than one could do on their own
Pema Pera: for sure!
Caledonia Heron: I am covered in paint it would appear ... not much elsewhere
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pema Pera: hehe
genesis Zhangsun: nice session
genesis Zhangsun: thanks all
Pema Pera: yes, thanks for hosting, Gen!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: see you all later -- wow, two hours!
Gaya Ethaniel: Good day all
Pema Pera: bye Gaya
Caledonia Heron: yes, thank you all :)
genesis Zhangsun: good day
Pema Pera: bye Adelene
Pema Pera: bye Gen & Cal
Adelene Dawner: cya, Pem
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for showing the AV Adelene
Caledonia Heron: bye :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
genesis Zhangsun: Bye Adelene!
genesis Zhangsun: Bye Cal!
genesis Zhangsun: Bye Pema!
Adelene Dawner: cya Gen
genesis Zhangsun: Bye Gaya
Caledonia Heron: see you :)