2008.08.07 19:00 - Navigating through Meteor Showers

Pia was the official guardian tonight, but she asked Friedrich to post the logs and comment since he/I was there the whole time.

Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Friedrich Oschenhorn: hi adelene
Adelene Dawner: 'lo Fred
Friedrich Oschenhorn: avastu, i don't recall if we have met before
Avastu Maruti: nice to meet you, my friend
Friedrich Oschenhorn: pleasure

Peeking at Avastu's profile I asked him about a group he is a member in.

Friedrich Oschenhorn: Avastu: what is the Nonduality & Advaita Group about?
Avastu Maruti: We have a weekly talk followed by questions and answers
Adelene Dawner: 'lo Pia
Friedrich Oschenhorn: any particular topic or theme?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: hi Pia?
Avastu Maruti: the truth of what you are
Pia Iger: Hi, all, I am a bit late
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Friedrich Oschenhorn: so, nonduality would be both the One and hte Many?
Avastu Maruti: Nonduality can be called Oneness
Friedrich Oschenhorn: what about plurality ;-)
Avastu Maruti: recognizing oneness
Friedrich Oschenhorn: plurality is non-dual. sory if I am being flippant or silly
Friedrich Oschenhorn: literal?
Avastu Maruti: plurality assumes reality in the many
Friedrich Oschenhorn: well, it just reminded me of an ancient riddle

Friedrich Oschenhorn: hi neela!
Neela Blaisdale: Hello everyone
Friedrich Oschenhorn: the riddle of the reconcilation of the one and the many
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Friedrich Oschenhorn: or, how the many might decant from the one
Avastu Maruti: the many IS Oneness
Friedrich Oschenhorn: (and i never heard that term before)
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i'm with you on that one. there is an identity relation between the One and the Many
Friedrich Oschenhorn: but, does that problematize or solve the riddle?
Avastu Maruti: relationship assumes two
Friedrich Oschenhorn: hmm.. i would think that the relationship is the thrid, after the first distcinction into two
Avastu Maruti: who remains to point out the distinction?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: which instantly creats relations between the rest, leading to infinity.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: it springs into existence upon the first distinction?
Avastu Maruti: is that a belief or direct experience?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: good question.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: its a hypothesis, that I have tried to experinece, and may have noticed
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i am fairly confident in it, and maybe even want for it to be true
Avastu Maruti: yes
Avastu Maruti: simply look to direct experience - reality cannot exist as a belief
Avastu Maruti: it must be present now if it is truly reality
Avastu Maruti: you know, that you know
Avastu Maruti: seeing is happening
Avastu Maruti: and IN that seeing, all comes and goes
Friedrich Oschenhorn: maybe.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: depends whats prior. belief or reality

Adelene Dawner should have thought before she came - she has other things she should be doing and isn't really able to focus here right now, and trying to do so is being counterproductive. Bye, all. See you tomorrow.
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Friedrich Oschenhorn: sorry, are we losing everyone? we started this thread before pia and neela arrived
Neela Blaisdale: Bye Adelene
Friedrich Oschenhorn: g'night
Pia Iger: bye.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: how was everybody's day?
Pia Iger: can't complain:)
Neela Blaisdale: Busy but good
Friedrich Oschenhorn: its been a busy, and fragmented week for lots of people i know, including myself
Neela Blaisdale: I just noticed the WHo Knows poster, is that new?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: and, by coincidence, there is a meteor shower underway, peaking monday night
Neela Blaisdale: Yes after 2am EST
Friedrich Oschenhorn: yeha, i hadn't noticed it before either. i was trying to read it, but can't seeem to get close enough from here
Neela Blaisdale: I've already alerted my family that we're staying up
Friedrich Oschenhorn: got a good vantage point?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: there are a few things that NYC is a terrible place for.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: night-time viewing is one of those things
Neela Blaisdale: Not sure as we're going away to somewhere I've never been but there's a beach nearby
Friedrich Oschenhorn: nice
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i gotta find a roof
Neela Blaisdale: Yes NY woud be hard
Neela Blaisdale: I wonder if the Museum of Natural History is doing anything special?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: good question. maybe a real time simulation of the shower inside the planetarium ;-)
Friedrich Oschenhorn: reminds of a time recnetly i was on a plane, and they insisted we close the shades, but broadcast the view from the underside on the closed circuit tv system
Neela Blaisdale: Could be. I think one reason I get so excited about these things is that they are a reminder that we are part of somethng greater than ourselves
Friedrich Oschenhorn: for sure. they help me imagine/remember that the astonomical bodies are hurtling through space at breakneck speeds (ourselves included)
Friedrich Oschenhorn: spaceship earth, as Bucky Fuller called us
Neela Blaisdale: Standing still and hurtling at the same time
Friedrich Oschenhorn: ;-)
Friedrich Oschenhorn: its all relative....
Friedrich Oschenhorn: though, avastu might take issue with motion, if all that exists is the now ;-)
Neela Blaisdale: What do you think Avastu?
Avastu Maruti: Think about what?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: about change. if all that exists is the present, what are you changing in relatoin too
Avastu Maruti: who changes?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: well, motion is a change in positoin
Friedrich Oschenhorn: for us to be hurtling through space, we needed to be somewhere before, and wil be somewhere else later
Avastu Maruti: are we hurtling through space, or does space happen in Consciousness?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: (sorry. to have been somewhere before)
Friedrich Oschenhorn: perhaps they mirror each other
Avastu Maruti: there is no perhaps, my friend
Avastu Maruti: look for yourself

Friedrich Oschenhorn: hi steve!
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Steven
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i can entertain the notion that all that exists is the present, which btw, means that teh past is as maleable as the future...
Friedrich Oschenhorn: but not sure how I can get beyond or do w/out time.
Avastu Maruti: the mind will never find the answer
Friedrich Oschenhorn: because it is situated in time? like a fish in water?
Avastu Maruti: no amount of mental analysis can find that which is beyond mind
Avastu Maruti: what is situated in time?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: mind
Friedrich Oschenhorn: well, consciousness
Friedrich Oschenhorn: not sure about mind
Avastu Maruti: time appears as an illusion
Avastu Maruti: if you have a thought about the past or future, when does that thought happen?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: steve - you tp'd an alternate univese tonight
Avastu Maruti: do you ever move out of now?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: approximately now
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i think I am rarely precisely in the now
Avastu Maruti: of course
stevenaia Michinaga: I usually ponder next more than now
Friedrich Oschenhorn: that is what this practice helps me come closer to
Avastu Maruti: that is why you miss it
Friedrich Oschenhorn: like that scene in spaceballs ;-)
Friedrich Oschenhorn: when's that? now? no, you just missed it
Avastu Maruti: missed what, my friend?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: sorry, that was a quote from that mel brooks movie
stevenaia Michinaga: but now is slowly becoming more.... part of me
Friedrich Oschenhorn: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/
Avastu Maruti: what you are is the "light" which illuminates the world, yet if a light is always on, we miss it
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i like to try to emulate light
Neela Blaisdale: Hard work to stay in the now
Avastu Maruti: now is not difficult, it is unavoidable
Avastu Maruti: yet even "now
Avastu Maruti: "now" is only a pointer
Friedrich Oschenhorn: dunno avastu. i think steve was onto something in terms of fixating on the future or the past
Friedrich Oschenhorn: even if you are "really" in the now, whatever that means
Avastu Maruti: simply see that the mind moves in thought from past to future constantly
Friedrich Oschenhorn: ah. so maybe i am now talking about attention
Friedrich Oschenhorn: differnet from mind
Avastu Maruti: yet those thoughts only ever happen in this present moment
stevenaia Michinaga: not the far future, but the immediate choices that are available to us when we talke the next baby step
Friedrich Oschenhorn: where the mind is focused, or looking
Avastu Maruti: see that time is only a way of thinking
Avastu Maruti: a concept
Friedrich Oschenhorn: well, i think that even some modern phycisists would agree w/ you there - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Time
Avastu Maruti: this is not a belief I'm asking you to accept - discard all that I say and investigate for yourself
Friedrich Oschenhorn: some ancient systems I have studied have postulated that teh universe is composed of quality, quantity, and communiction

Friedrich Oschenhorn: sure, but investigations are guided by questoins
Friedrich Oschenhorn: its iterative
Avastu Maruti: of course - and the core question is "what am I?"
Friedrich Oschenhorn: the summation of your choices is one possible answer i have entertained
Avastu Maruti: simply look to THAT which is looking
Friedrich Oschenhorn: but those are the parts, which omit the whole
Avastu Maruti: In WHAT is this human experience happening?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: I
Avastu Maruti: and what IS that "I"?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: a construct for containing experience? that's a recursive definition, but that bootstrapping is where the magic may happen
Avastu Maruti: yes
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i dunno - i think we are trying to investigate preciesly these questions, through the direct experience of the practice we are engaged in
Avastu Maruti: of course
Avastu Maruti: if you are interested in hypothesis - look into the nature of Consciousness
Friedrich Oschenhorn: heh. and by that practice I could mean 'life' or even the PaB 9 second pause routine
Avastu Maruti: Life is intelligence - you ARE that
Friedrich Oschenhorn: if the inner and the outer are mirrors, might we find the answer by looking deeply in either directoin?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: or in both simultaineously?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: sorry. not 'the' answer. questoins and answers
Friedrich Oschenhorn: set,s ranges, and spaces of answers
Friedrich Oschenhorn: thanks for the compliment. sometimes I feel pretty dumb ;-)
Pia Iger: Avastu, what will it be after life then?
Avastu Maruti: what will what be, my friend?
Pia Iger: the intelligence, you said we are.
Avastu Maruti: Life IS - the appearance of "things", forms and space, are only illusions of separateness
Avastu Maruti: that intelligence that forms the tree and that human body are the same "substance"
Avastu Maruti: Life is not "my life"
Avastu Maruti: You are Life, looking at itself
Friedrich Oschenhorn: but should we be doing more than just looking...
Friedrich Oschenhorn: which brings us full circle back to change...
Friedrich Oschenhorn: ;-)
Avastu Maruti: there is no "should", my friend - all happens according to it's nature
Avastu Maruti: the illusion is that "you" are the doer, the "thinker"

Friedrich Oschenhorn: now, how do you know that again? cause, from my experience, I know otherwise
Avastu Maruti: with WHAT do you know?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i mean, everything happens according to its nature is a rather passive formulation
Friedrich Oschenhorn: that i can choose. and act, according to my will
Friedrich Oschenhorn: at least, that is my nature
Avastu Maruti: of course - that's why it's an illusion
Avastu Maruti: the "you" that believes you have free will is part of this illusion
Friedrich Oschenhorn: well, its all an illusion
Friedrich Oschenhorn: yeah yeah. what if I want to believe in that illusion. can it become real?
Avastu Maruti: belief cannot create reality
Friedrich Oschenhorn: you sure about that?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: how do you know?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: just because it never has for you?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: in your experinece?
Avastu Maruti: can your belief in Santa Claus create him?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: maybe if enough of us did...
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i don't know

Avastu Maruti: who is "us"?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: uh.... do you believe in other people's minds?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: or are they illusions in your reality also?
Avastu Maruti: it is not "my" reality - "me" and "mine" are only concepts
Avastu Maruti: the "I" you speak of is only a concept
Friedrich Oschenhorn: a prettty important one, for me! ;-)
Avastu Maruti: yes - for the "me"
Friedrich Oschenhorn: and, 'I' respect the importance of your 'I'
Friedrich Oschenhorn: its reality, even
Friedrich Oschenhorn: anyone else want to help me out here ;-)
Avastu Maruti: belief is never reality - drop all beliefs for one moment and rest in pure reality
Avastu Maruti: you are already what you seek
Avastu Maruti: Being is only hidden because you are looking for it
Avastu Maruti: it is THAT which illuminates the search itself
Friedrich Oschenhorn: I don't feel that Being is hidden. In fact, I think it communicates with me quite clearly sometimes
Avastu Maruti: So Being would have to be separate with "you" to communicate with you
Friedrich Oschenhorn: nope. just that's how my lower self needs to regard it to comprehend it.
Avastu Maruti: these concepts of "lower self" and others are simply assumptions - look for yourself

Friedrich Oschenhorn: Avastu, time out.
Avastu Maruti: can you find duality except in mind
Friedrich Oschenhorn: Is this your first time to PaB?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: I am asking because we like to record our sessions and post them onloine
Friedrich Oschenhorn: and i want to find out if you are ok w/ that?
Avastu Maruti: would you like me to wear my guardian tag?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: not at all!
Friedrich Oschenhorn: sorry, we have never met.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i only attend sporadically
Avastu Maruti: yes - if you ask a question, then the response comes
Friedrich Oschenhorn: but then, if all that exists is hte now, should I ask every time ;-)
Avastu Maruti: if you wish no response,don't ask questions
Friedrich Oschenhorn: you answered a questoin with a questoin.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: a yes would have sufficed.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: err, no, I suppose
Avastu Maruti: questions come, answers come - what I am is not involved
Friedrich Oschenhorn: actually, its the other attendees who haven't been too involved...
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i think we got caught up in our own reality
stevenaia Michinaga: I've been listening intently
Avastu Maruti: they are free to speak - I will now stop
stevenaia Michinaga: and smiling quite a bit
Friedrich Oschenhorn: well, i need to go soon... i just wanted to make sure we weren't excluding or alienating htem
Friedrich Oschenhorn: what are you smiling about, steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: the exchange was wonderful
Friedrich Ochsenhorn blushes
stevenaia Michinaga: I am suprised you have never met Avastu, Friedrich
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i wasn't sure if i had
Friedrich Oschenhorn: k... so, avastu, you think that the concept of others is just an assumption - is it one you find useful?
Neela Blaisdale: Well everyone, I must go.Have a good night and be well
Friedrich Oschenhorn: Good night, neela!
stevenaia Michinaga: night neela
Avastu Maruti: the answer will most likely be another question to you, my friend
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Friedrich Oschenhorn: imagine all the people, living in harmony...
Friedrich Oschenhorn: let it be
Avastu Maruti: yes
Friedrich Oschenhorn: it will be, eventually. but perhaps, some of us would like to experience that in our lifetime
Friedrich Oschenhorn: desire and impatience. such wonderful illusions
stevenaia Michinaga: over time those two particular illusion have slowly disipated from me, and I don;t feel any loss
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i like desire.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: i wnat to live in a world with desire
Friedrich Oschenhorn: as well as one with peace, beauty, love, and truth
stevenaia Michinaga: well slowly, not entirely
Friedrich Oschenhorn: why should i drop them (at least, permantly)?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: temporarily, perhaps, to appreciate them more
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes droping one allow another to take its place, nothing needs to belost
Friedrich Oschenhorn: lucky for us, its all good ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: I certainly hope so
Friedrich Oschenhorn: of course. how else could it be?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: Pia? any reactoins or remarks?
stevenaia Michinaga: well I must go, thank you for the evening
Friedrich Oschenhorn: yes, a nice note to depart.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: good nigth, steve
Pia Iger: I am listening.
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

stevenaia Michinaga: looking forward to seeing you all soon, tomarrow is my first guardianship
Friedrich Oschenhorn: fare thee all well.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: cool - what time?
stevenaia Michinaga: 7 slt
Friedrich Oschenhorn: when do we move to the new pavillion?
Friedrich Oschenhorn: does anyone know?
Pia Iger: wonderful, Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: join me for suipport Pia?
stevenaia Michinaga: ..smile
Pia Iger: OK!
Friedrich Oschenhorn: not sure I can make it - i have a wedding this weekend, and don't know if i will be near a connection
Pia Iger: We won't move until Tech team do the autorecord trial at new place.
Friedrich Oschenhorn: really? the place is ready, and is really nice.
stevenaia Michinaga: can;t wait
Friedrich Oschenhorn: auto-recording is definitely not ready /now/
Friedrich Oschenhorn: which is where I am trying to concentrate ;-)
Friedrich Oschenhorn: k. i've gotta go. pleaure everyone. g'night friends.
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Pia Iger: Good nite.