2008.08.10 07:00 – Hearing Avastu talking for the first time

Gaya is posting this log. Please feel free to add your comments.

doug Sosa: hi Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope you've been well dough
Gaya Ethaniel: doug*
doug Sosa: yes, and you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well thank you :)
doug Sosa: well of course is a thin answer to a profound question.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
doug Sosa: I am thinking about how our life is like a wave with its own life, and dance this wave as it passes through us, and then subsides.
Gaya Ethaniel: Fleeting you mean?
doug Sosa: no, long duration, but not that long. Fleeting is too momentary to express what i feel.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah.. lags
Gaya Ethaniel: Could you say a little more doug?
doug Sosa: its like sitting on a surfboard and feeling the wave come, raise you up, and then, as it passes, lets you back down.
Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder whether you could relate that 'feeling' to certain examples in your life
doug Sosa: well, its not so plural. just an awareness of the fact that we are given a wave, make the best - or worst - of it, and then - silence.
doug Sosa: hi closer.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
doug Sosa: i love the goldfish!
Gaya Ethaniel: ty :) I named him 'Bubbly'
doug Sosa: beautiful.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... ok. Do you feel that each of us makes the whole 'ocean' and somehow affect each other with our own actions and decisions?
doug Sosa: yes, but also the rhythm of the days, the seasons, and then there is something like "history" that of course is mostly what we do, but feels separate.
Gaya Ethaniel: In fact waves are better... I used to think of this 'feeling' as streams and rivers
doug Sosa: and i live on the edge of a river that is ony six miles from the sea, so i feel daily its destination.
Gaya Ethaniel: Waves have momentum... that's a powerful visual for me
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
doug Sosa: does it make sense to see one's own life as a single wave (in part, of course there are ripples)?
Gaya Ethaniel: And calm, tranquil sea aginast rough sea... and so on
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes doug and we are hence inseparable
doug Sosa: yes, but what we do depends so much on us.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
doug Sosa: A squirrel is on the roof. he she too has a life, but her sense of the moment is so large. admirable.
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'yes, like an insect'
 doug Sosa: And then a blue jap comes: the plumb tree overhands the roof. and the plums are ripe.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
doug Sosa: bluejay
Gaya Ethaniel: Nature can inspire many things indeed, including love, compassion and kindness and understanding how it is
doug Sosa: do you have a recent contact with nature in mind?
Gaya Ethaniel: That nature includes people too...
doug Sosa: yes..
Gaya Ethaniel Almost all the time doug... it can be a beautiful aria, a rose... a talk with a friend endless list....
Gaya Ethaniel: sorry phone
doug Sosa: i love weeding the garden.
Gaya Ethaniel: back
doug Sosa: but it is an act of empire: you survive, you don't. I can get uncomfortable
Gaya Ethaniel: Don't follow the line you just said... could you explain a bit more?
doug Sosa: yes. weeding you have to decide who will not get to stay.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah i c
doug Sosa: ?
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry 'ah I see'
Gaya Ethaniel: I don't think I'd look at it that way doug
doug Sosa: thanks. I'll learn.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
doug Sosa: how would you look at it?
Gaya Ethaniel: If we don't cull certain aniamls, it can overwhelm the whole area... this means that all beings in that environment cannot live in harmoney. Weeding in a sense is culling... does this make sense?
doug Sosa: oh yes, but extended beyond the garden, gets tough. painful.
Gaya Ethaniel: Think I'd need a concrete example of 'beyond the garden' in order to understand your view
doug Sosa: well, humans. The word "cull" interestingly, comes originally from "gather"
Gaya Ethaniel: oh? didn't know that, thanks doug
doug Sosa: as in "collect".
Gaya Ethaniel: So when would we 'cull' humans? Pls give me an example.
doug Sosa: So culling and the human population. Our neighbors, and those distant.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... I don't think I've 'culled' any humans let alone neighbours...
doug Sosa: War and disease and poverty limit the species, otherwise we would drown in or own tsunami.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... and you think that's a result of what we are 'doing' yes?
doug Sosa: So being part of a country, we cull all the time, soemtimes rapidly asin war, and sometiems slowly, as in economic policy.
doug Sosa: And when the leaders act in the name of the country, they include us.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... I don't see it that way doug
doug Sosa: tell me more.
doug Sosa: please :)
Gaya Ethaniel: First of all, those are a result of how it is... essentially humans have failings and I accept this.
Gaya Ethaniel: If I go more into specifics
doug Sosa: yes..
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm from Korea that has been invaded and controlled by numerous countries over the long history
doug Sosa: yes, important perspective, like from eastern europe.
doug Sosa: I must go, family visiting for breakfast, and the fire is going out in the wood stove... bye!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

---

Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you Avastu?
Avastu Maruti: well, my friend, and you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well thank you :)
Gaya Ethaniel: doug was here just now and had to go... we were in the middle of a discussion which is shame.
Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder whether you would like to continue or talk about something else?
Gaya Ethaniel: or just sit here :)
Avastu Maruti: anything that arises, arises perfectly
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Do you follow any particular religion Avastu?
Avastu Maruti: religions generally hold many dualistic teachings
Avastu Maruti: another place to rest our identifications
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: So you don't see any good of 'religions' then
Avastu Maruti: no good or bad anywhere to be found
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'should have anticipated that answer!'
Avastu Maruti: in the relative appearance, many religions hold pointers towards what you really are
Gaya Ethaniel: yes I know why you used 'relative appearance' there
Gaya Ethaniel: So your answer to my original question is 'no'
Avastu Maruti: there is no answer, my friend
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Very wise Avastu...
Avastu Maruti: maybe wisdom is truly finding out that we are helpless
Avastu Maruti: no word, no question, no seeking, no questions or answers can ever give us what we seek
Gaya Ethaniel: How does it come then?
Avastu Maruti: how does what come?
Avastu: How do we 'get' what we seek?*
Avastu Maruti: maybe it is hidden because we're looking for it
Avastu Maruti: maybe it's hidden by already being everything
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm intrigued by your use of word 'helpless' here. Could you tell me why you used that word?
Avastu Maruti: we go down many paths
Avastu Maruti: maybe we have great spiritual experiences
Avastu Maruti: yet these, as all appearances do, eventually pass
Avastu Maruti: we try to quantify and qualify with words and teachings
Avastu Maruti: yet these all lead nowhere
Avastu Maruti: we are still stuck
Avastu Maruti: like a mouse bouncing in a corner
Avastu Maruti: at some point we recognize the futility of the search
Avastu Maruti: and there is a simple stopping, looking without words or concepts
Avastu Maruti: and in that looking, we may see that there never was anywhere to go
Avastu Maruti: reality is THIS
Avastu Maruti: whatever THIS is
Avastu Maruti: yet the "ME" that wanted to find it is part of THIS
Avastu Maruti: part of the appearance
Gaya Ethaniel: ah I think I understand you somewhat. What does participating in group discussions like this mean to you then?
Avastu Maruti: there is no meaning
Gaya Ethaniel: Why are you here?*
Avastu Maruti: I don't know
Gaya Ethaniel: Avastu... you are hm.... something. Not sure what to say here.
Gaya Ethaniel: Let's say I understand and am impressed!
Avastu Maruti: nothing to be impressed - you are already what you are seeking
Gaya Ethaniel thanks Avastu for being here.
Gaya Ethaniel: I see in you what I have and so thank you
Avastu Maruti: in that helplessness, there is an openness to receive
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Avastu Maruti: like putting down all concepts and beliefs and being open to whatever happens
Avastu Maruti: otherwise we are always seeing through the filter of the mind
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Avastu Maruti: yet it seems we can't reach this helplessness until we've exhausted our concepts
Gaya Ethaniel: From my experience, shedding fears helped me to remove the 'fileters'
Avastu Maruti: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure exactly how it came about... but something to do with seeing that I have the ability and trusting my own 'wisdom'
Avastu Maruti: yet what IS that "ME" except a bundle of fears, concepts?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well afterwards, I use 'I', 'me' just to communicate... I see that we are all connected and one but in order to communicate with people who feel still that they are separated from us, I need to use such 'words'...
Avastu Maruti: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: That sometimes is difficult to do in my heart... feel less authentic but my eagerness to communicate with others override that uncomfortable feelings. Guess that's why I'm here today.
Avastu Maruti: yes, I understand