2008.06.02 13:00 - Blurring Past Fullness

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    Stim was the guardian that afternoon. He later sent me this chat log, to which I have added my comments. It seemed that Fael, Isen, Moon and Stim were all gathered at the tea house.

    Stim Morane: Isen, we’ve been hearing the PaB bell every minute.
    Isen Enzo: ah
    Isen Enzo: i should pay attention…..
    Stim Morane: a happy glitch
    Moon Fargis: ok replaced it :)
    Stim Morane: Isen, do you have any new comments re PaB?
    Isen Enzo: Well, i was really interested in hearing about your new sim!!
    Fael Illyar: I have been doing PaB every 15 minutes but nothing comes to mind on new things I have discovered.
    Fael Illyar: As in, no new things
    Stim Morane: Isen, I can’t say much about that, alas.
    Stim Morane: OK, well the main thing is to maintain some continuity.
    Isen Enzo: A friend returned after a ten year absence….
    Stim Morane: Yes?
    Isen Enzo: as a nichiren Buddhist!
    Stim Morane: I see
    Isen Enzo: Very nice.
    Isen Enzo: I am Zen, but got to learn about her sect…
    Isen Enzo: we chanted..
    Stim Morane: yes, I expect so.
    Fael Illyar: Hello Rajah
    Faenik: could be
    Rajah Yalin: hi everyone
    Stim Morane: Hi Rajah!
    Moon Fargis: hi rajah

    Rajah joined the group.

    Isen Enzo: namu horen gekyo…
    Isen Enzo: over and over again..
    Stim Morane: yes
    Stim Morane: that’s their approach
    Isen Enzo: in Soto Zen we just sit….
    Isen Enzo: I guess they just chant…
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Isen Enzo: shikantaza we call it…
    Stim Morane: it’s a diff view
    Isen Enzo: shikanchant, maybe they call it…
    Isen Enzo: oh?
    Stim Morane: But here, i wouldn’t mind seeing something of the Soto view to inform PaB
    Isen Enzo: just play…
    Isen Enzo: ??
    Isen Enzo: shikan-PaBing
    Isen Enzo: nice ring…
    Isen Enzo: brb
    Stim Morane: Yes, perhaps. There is a similarity between Soto Zen and PaB. Both emphasize that whatever we have is within the enlightened dimension.
    Stim Morane: No reaching.
    Stim Morane: the 9-sec format is meant to counteract the way in which the ordinary mind blurs past that fullness.

    Stim had just summarized the PaB practice in one sentence.

    Fael Illyar: blurs past fullness?
    Fael Illyar: I’m not sure what that means
    Stim Morane: habits, heedlessness, etc tend to dominate, crowding out appreciation
    Stim Morane: the 9-sec practice can counter that.
    Fael Illyar: Ah, now I see :)
    Stim Morane: The Soto level of understanding this point is very advanced, but the point still applies
    Moon Fargis: well in pab time i prefer to be nothing like in zen
    Stim Morane: sure. But perhaps that applies to the style more than the essence?
    Stim Morane: Or do you mean you really are interested in something diff?
    Faenik: ah :)
    Moon Fargis: differences are in our minds, if we take pab like the same as i take zen then there is no difference..
    Stim Morane: so what did you mean re “nothing like in zen”?
    Moon Fargis: no mind, no thoughts, no ego,

    So Moon had meant “nothing, like in zen”.

    Isen Enzo: back.
    Isen Enzo: in black..
    Isen Enzo: I read a great quote yesterday…
    Moon Fargis: ah coffee isen
    Isen Enzo: in one of the notes I pass round…
    Isen Enzo: some one asked the roshi…
    Isen Enzo: “how do I take my practice from the cushion… “
    Isen Enzo: “to everyday… “
    Isen Enzo: the roshi said…
    Isen Enzo: “bring virtue to whatever you do… “
    Isen Enzo: thats all..
    Stim Morane: Yes. But what do you feel that means?
    Isen Enzo: be there
    Isen Enzo: do it
    Isen Enzo: no half-assedness..
    Isen Enzo: do it..
    Isen Enzo: as best you can..
    Stim Morane: yes.
    Isen Enzo: with full attention..
    Isen Enzo: not distracted..
    Isen Enzo: or elsewhere
    Isen Enzo: there
    Moon Fargis: well i took several hours of tea ceremoy with a master as practisipant.. i think i know what he means
    Isen Enzo: then
    Isen Enzo: yes
    Isen Enzo: ritual can help keep one in the moment…

    Both Hotaru and Sky showed up, at about the same time.

    Fael Illyar: Hello Hotaru, Sky :)
    Isen Enzo: Buddhafly!!
    Moon Fargis: ah hi hotaru
    Moon Fargis: sky
    Stim Morane: Hi Hotaru and Sky
    Hotaru Myoo: Hola amigos!
    Isen Enzo: los seis amigos…
    Isen Enzo: los dos amigas..
    Hotaru Myoo: muy bueno
    Isen Enzo: tres amigas..
    Isen Enzo: dos amigas.
    Isen Enzo: moving amigas..
    Hotaru Myoo: cha cha cah
    Fael Illyar: Ok, what was that?
    Isen Enzo: brb
    Stim Morane: sure
    Hotaru Myoo: i2 cha
    Isen Enzo: some female av came and went..
    Hotaru Myoo: cha cha
    Isen Enzo: brb
    Hotaru Myoo: lol
    Fael Illyar: She’s still in chat range, Hello arabella
    Hotaru Myoo: this is a spritely group today!
    Moon Fargis: shall we dance?:)
    Hotaru Myoo: tag
    Hotaru Myoo: you it

    From the log, it seemed that some commotion had been going on, while in the mean time Arabella walked by.

    arabella Ella: hiya
    Stim Morane: Hi Arabella
    arabella Ella: sorry i had some camera control probs
    Stim Morane: well done!
    Hotaru Myoo: sorry..
    Hotaru Myoo: :)
    Stim Morane: Isen, are you back?
    Hotaru Myoo: hi arabella
    arabella Ella: hiya
    Hotaru Myoo: no Isen is front
    Stim Morane: OK, well we’ll pick up his point shortly. What else shall we discuss?
    Fael Illyar: are you new here arabella?
    arabella Ella: yes i am
    Stim Morane: welcome
    arabella Ella: may i stay on for a short while please?
    Moon Fargis: well i just finished the first play as being hermitage house
    Hotaru Myoo: hiya
    Moon Fargis: for us guardians
    Hotaru Myoo: so kewl
    Stim Morane: we’re having a very open chat, but also considering a form of practice that helps relate directly to life’s fullness
    Hotaru Myoo: tell more us more Moon
    Faenik: why not?
    arabella Ella: sounds fascinating
    Moon Fargis: well i think i will do several ones where you can choose when yo like
    Moon Fargis: for your home
    Moon Fargis: when you like
    Hotaru Myoo: kewl

    Unperturbed by the various other strands of conversation, Stim explained about Play as Being.

    Stim Morane: the idea is simply to stop briefly every 15 minutes and appreciate what is present
    arabella Ella: yes
    arabella Ella: brilliant
    Stim Morane: this could mean many things, which is where our meetings here gain complexity
    Stim Morane: we are trying to keep the basic approach simple, but there is much to discuss
    arabella Ella: yes i understand this is not new to me
    Stim Morane: yes, I thought so
    arabella Ella: although it is my first time here
    Stim Morane: the possibilities range from mindfulness, to very advanced awakeness of original dimensions of Being
    Hotaru Myoo: that’s a range alright
    arabella Ella: yes i understand this
    Stim Morane: good
    arabella Ella: through increased awareness of one’s state of consciousness
    arabella Ella: and meditation and awareness
    Moon Fargis: yes something like a micro meditation
    arabella Ella: yes
    Stim Morane: exactly

    For Arabella the main PaB idea seemed to fit right in.

    Fael Illyar: Also, this meeting is blogged, are you fine with what you say being blogged, arabella?
    arabella Ella: the only thing is that i cannot stay for very long and i hope that is not a problem for you
    Stim Morane: good point, thanks Fael!
    Hotaru Myoo: marks on a chalkboard …clicks on a stick
    Stim Morane: no problem, arabella
    arabella Ella: and no i have no problem with this being blogged
    arabella Ella: only i have to leave in a few minutes as i have a previous appointment
    arabella Ella: but i would appreciate being informed of a future session please?
    Hotaru Myoo: nice to leave some detritus around behind
    arabella Ella: because this interests me very much
    Fael Illyar: meetings are held every day at 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm.
    Hotaru Myoo: 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm
    Stim Morane: Yes, you are welcome at any of those times, every day, Arabella
    Fael Illyar: SL time, of course :)
    Stim Morane: yes
    Stim Morane: I’m not sure if Isen will be back shortly, but he raised the point of being fully present, focused. This involves many different cases, which we could discuss.
    Sky Szimmer: what are the different cases stim?

    Stim briefly took time off for a technical question.

    Stim Morane: actually, I have a question on another matter … do any of you use “mouse view” while sitting here?
    Stim Morane: sorry sky, one sec
    Moon Fargis: no not me
    arabella Ella: no
    Hotaru Myoo: not me
    Faenik: ah :)
    Fael Illyar: you mean mouselook? no I do not.
    Sky Szimmer: no
    Stim Morane: yes mouselook
    Isen Enzo: I’m back!
    Stim Morane: oh good
    Hotaru Myoo: front!
    Isen Enzo: I’m here now.
    Isen Enzo: front to back!
    Isen Enzo: side to side..
    Moon Fargis takes the middle
    arabella Ella: please dont misunderstand i would love to stay but …
    Hotaru Myoo: always in balance
    arabella Ella: i have a previous committment
    Stim Morane: I was asking about mouselook because I notice some of you have much better avatar control than I do (I’m just a newbie)
    Isen Enzo: I don’t give a damn, cus i done it already…
    arabella Ella: and must go
    Fael Illyar: arabella, coming and going is free. No need to feel worried.
    arabella Ella: but i will be back
    Stim Morane: ok, thanks for joining us
    Hotaru Myoo: no control here

    Arabella left, and the conversation tumbled on.

    arabella Ella: thank you so much
    arabella Ella: bye for now
    Moon Fargis: bye arabella
    Hotaru Myoo: I work with the little peanut of a button in my keyboard
    Isen Enzo: Bye Arabella.
    Hotaru Myoo: bye arabella
    Stim Morane: Isen, shall we follow up on your comments?
    Fael Illyar: So, fullness?
    Stim Morane: or fullness?
    Isen Enzo: ok
    Hotaru Myoo: hmmm
    Isen Enzo: I am here and there so to speak…
    Isen Enzo: trying to be here and in RL at the same time…
    Isen Enzo: very difficult..
    Stim Morane: yes
    Moon Fargis: multitasking
    Hotaru Myoo: latte?
    Isen Enzo: actually doesn’t work at all…
    Moon Fargis: multi…realitything
    Isen Enzo: either here or there..
    Isen Enzo: not both..

    Stim tried to get the discussion more focused.

    Stim Morane: this is itself an interesting issue for me. I wonder if the modern emphasis on multitasking is consistent with contemplative practice.
    Moon Fargis: just be as being :)
    Isen Enzo: try, but can’t do it..
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Fael Illyar: Oh yes, I can’t handle RL and SL at the same time. One or the other will get less attention.
    Isen Enzo: no matter how hard I try…
    Isen Enzo: one or the other..
    Hotaru Myoo: I think that is ubiquitous
    Isen Enzo: I don’t think I can hold more than one thing at a time- in my mind..
    Stim Morane: Yes, that is the traditional way, for sure. But modern life is pushing in other directions.
    Hotaru Myoo: but it tis the nature of our lives
    Hotaru Myoo: sound bites
    Isen Enzo: no double-think..
    Stim Morane: yes
    Isen Enzo: sound bites/ love hurts…
    Stim Morane: this is why in rl I take my students on retreat often
    Hotaru Myoo: me too
    Isen Enzo: Retreats rock!
    Stim Morane: and why this PaB group in SL might help. But “might” is the key word.
    Hotaru Myoo: but even those experiences can be fractured
    Stim Morane: yes

    Fael expressed what I have experienced too, at various occasions.

    Fael Illyar: Strangely, I can handle several conversations at the same time in text, somehow but if one of them is voice, it tends to dominate.
    Stim Morane: it takes a while to settle in
    Sky Szimmer: but that is how modern life is, how to still be fully present and focused still
    Stim Morane: yes, that’s not surprising. Voice has a lot of history behind its influence.
    Hotaru Myoo: we have had discussions over the pros and cons of voice
    Moon Fargis: i think we thing in one reality too much already dubble think is doubble worse.. exept you d a dubble zazen after it :)
    Hotaru Myoo: what is the onsensus here?
    Stim Morane: re voice vs text?
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Hotaru Myoo: yes
    Stim Morane: for me, that’s a complex question and I will indeed take a year to decide.
    Hotaru Myoo: btw …an onsensus sure beats a consensus
    Hotaru Myoo: more relaxing
    Isen Enzo: easier to focus with a focus….
    Hotaru Myoo: haha
    Moon Fargis: hmm my dict is buning
    Moon Fargis: r
    Stim Morane: But I have no doubts that for our present purposes, text is better
    Fael Illyar: Group conversation like this tends to take more effort than a one on one conversation, so even one IM tends to make things hard if it happens at the same time with this.
    Isen Enzo: the problem with staying focused in open-ended situation….
    Hotaru Myoo: yes..
    Hotaru Myoo: but it reads like poetry
    Isen Enzo: my prob with PaBing…
    Isen Enzo: chopping carrrots a lot different…
    Hotaru Myoo: and has so many more opportunity to flourish
    Stim Morane: yes
    Stim Morane: I understand both of you
    Stim Morane: I wonder if we can help make PaB sessions more simple and direct.

    Good question!

    Hotaru Myoo: yes..
    Isen Enzo: well.
    Hotaru Myoo: we slow down and listen
    Isen Enzo: In the woods, i can just listen to whats going on…
    Hotaru Myoo: breathe
    Stim Morane: I would like that too.
    Moon Fargis: fael: now the bell works perfect :)
    Isen Enzo: here, there is some pressure to participate….
    Stim Morane: Yes, the bell is behaving now
    Hotaru Myoo: true
    Isen Enzo: unlike in a natural situation..
    Stim Morane: I’m such a newbie in SL, I find keeping up not only difficult but distasteful. But that’s my limitation.
    Isen Enzo: I mean- as far as natural situations go…..
    Isen Enzo: this aint it!
    Isen Enzo: a bunch of avatars ….
    Fael Illyar: Now that the bells will be synchronized, how about another on the other side of this teahouse?
    Isen Enzo: in a vintual world…
    Isen Enzo: babbling…
    Isen Enzo: in an unfocused way…
    Hotaru Myoo: at a screen
    Stim Morane: Fael, perhaps we could talk with Dakini and Pema about an extra bell
    Moon Fargis: fael: i thought about one on every hermitage any maye also o the way throight the sea
    Moon Fargis: so that you will hear a gong everywhere no matter where you are
    Hotaru Myoo: lol
    Hotaru Myoo: love it
    Isen Enzo: My ears ring now…
    Hotaru Myoo: but that was because of the flight migration
    Hotaru Myoo: never recovered
    Isen Enzo: yes…

    Stim made one more attempt at focusing the conversation.

    Stim Morane: we have just mentioned many things. But perhaps we could try letting one person at a time discuss her/his experience of PaB … not now, perhaps, but in our next session.
    Isen Enzo: all the twithtering…
    Stim Morane: I’m old fashioned, I’m afraid.
    Hotaru Myoo: but this is group chat
    Isen Enzo: yup, me too…
    Stim Morane: I know …
    Hotaru Myoo: and there are so many opportunities given the nonlinear aspect of group
    Hotaru Myoo: hate to miss it
    Fael Illyar: The beauty of text communication is that it’s actually possible to handle several people talking at the same time and keep up with them all. At least with some practise.
    Hotaru Myoo: yes
    Stim Morane: But group chat could be based on the “one person at a time” format, perhaps? Yes, I see the nonlinear aspects too. I’m not trying to shed those. Just to make a space for presence.
    Hotaru Myoo: depends on the time of day
    Hotaru Myoo: the 3am meetings can be deafening
    Isen Enzo: We could raise our hands….
    Isen Enzo: Hey!
    Hotaru Myoo: (1am sl)
    Hotaru Myoo: ohm…
    Moon Fargis remembers how it was to be in a cht with about 200 people once i internet
    Moon Fargis: all talk throught 1 window

    But then it was time for Stim to leave.

    Stim Morane: I’m going to have to leave now. Perhaps I’ve raised a suggestion that is too controversial for this setting.
    Isen Enzo: You mean like Roberts Rules- wait for recognition, then have the floor uninteruppted?
    Hotaru Myoo: no never
    Stim Morane: In any case, I look forward to hearing all of you at once, and also one of you at a time. Somehow.
    Hotaru Myoo: Stim…this is all good
    Isen Enzo: lol
    Sky Szimmer: bye
    Moon Fargis: bye stim
    Hotaru Myoo: Sky too?
    Isen Enzo: See you later…
    Hotaru Myoo: Bye Stim and Sky
    Hotaru Myoo: Ciao
    Fael Illyar: The group size needs to be kept reasonable, otherwise some kind of control is necessary
    Moon Fargis: bye sky
    Stim Morane: thanks, see you soon. I would like to return to the issues Fael and Isen raised.
    Isen Enzo: yes
    Fael Illyar: Bye Sky, Stim

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