That morning, Caledonia was the main guardian. She later sent me the chat log, and she also provided the comments.
Morning shines upon the teahouse:
Stargate Tone: hi
Fael Illyar: Hello
Caledonia Heron: morning :)
Stargate Tone: afternoon :)***
Caledonia Heron: thank you for trading with me Fael :)
Fael Illyar: no problem
Faenik: why not?
Stargate Tone: …from Finland
Caledonia Heron: you too Faenik :)
Caledonia Heron: hi Stargate :)
Faenik purrs contently.
Caledonia Heron: shall we sit outside?
Stargate Tone: U too coming to the meeting ?
Caledonia Heron: yes, we are the meeting :)
Caledonia Heron: let’s sit outdoors
Stargate Tone: …met ppl only in the house…
Fael Illyar: Hello Pema
Stargate Tone: while the meeting
Caledonia Heron: hey Pema :)
Stargate Tone: hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi there!
Pema Pera: Hi Cal, Fael, *
Fael Illyar: The meeting is sometimes held outside :)
Caledonia Heron: shall we meet in or out - I suggest outdoors
Fael Illyar: I don’t mind either way
Pema Pera: Does your dove speak too, Fael?
Pema Pera: out is fine, Cal!
Fael Illyar: no, dove doesn’t speak :)
Caledonia Heron: more of a circle :)
Pema Pera: yeah, this circle forming here is a bit difficult
The thought of moving the meetings to a new home:
Pema Pera: but Dakini just — hi Adams!
Pema Pera: just improved her new place
Caledonia Heron: hi Adams :)
Pema Pera: I just saw it
Adams Rubble: Hi
Stargate Tone: Hi Adams
Pema Pera: problem is people expect us here
Pema Pera: so we can’t go over there yet
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams
Adams Rubble: Hi all
Pema Pera: unless we make a big sign :)
Adams Rubble sighs
Stargate Tone: oh…I need to go again…
Fael Illyar: big sign with landmark giver :)
Stargate Tone: stargate
Caledonia Heron daydreams the sign says “Where We Be” and you click for info
Fael Illyar: Bye *
Adams Rubble sighs big
Stargate Tone: Have Good Time
Caledonia Heron: bye :)
Pema Pera: bye *
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Stargate Tone: stargate
Adams exhales:
Caledonia Heron: a sigh Adams?
Caledonia Heron: ok?
Pema Pera: yeah something like that kind of sign, Cal
Pema Pera: and from sign to sigh?
Pema Pera: Adams?
Caledonia Heron: she fell into her sigh :)
Adams Rubble: yes (ouch)
Moon Fargis: hello everyone
Caledonia Heron: hey Moon
Adams Rubble: hi
Pema Pera: hi Moon!
Fael Illyar: Hi Moon
Moon has given us an idea for a logo:
Pema Pera: Fun logo, Moon, very interesting!
Pema Pera: I just saw it before coming in-world
Pema Pera: How about nine flowers instead of ten?
Moon Fargis: well just a quick first try
Pema Pera: :-)
Caledonia Heron: yes, the odds are favoured :)
Pema Pera: asymmetry is a big thing in Japan
Pema Pera: exactly
Pema Pera: in ikebana, flower arangement, never even numbers
The delicacy of well meant observations and the grace of accepting them:
Fael Illyar: I hope my message wasn’t overly critical.
Moon Fargis: ah then i counted wrong hehe
Pema Pera: your points were all well taken, Fael
Moon Fargis: my eyes stopped bleeding fael its ok :)
Caledonia Heron: LOL
Caledonia Heron: glad you didn’t take it too personally Moon :)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
More logo-ing:
Pema Pera: but given that Being cannot be expressed in words or signs, an approximation is perhaps better if it is deliberately focusing on tools and such
Moon Fargis: i asked for opinions thats why i putted it up
Caledonia Heron: I threw a few in the pot - I like it Moon and I like the initiative too :)
Moon Fargis: storm was the first one who came on the idea putting the bell as symbol
Moon Fargis: thats why i made this one because i liked the idea
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: I guess the bell can stay, I’d just prefer it blurred I guess.
Fael Illyar: and with some noise
Fael Illyar: over the blur
Moon Fargis: aha?
Pema Pera: yes, most of all I am delighted that you kicked off by producing a logo at all — same idea as Adams producing the first ever detailed PaB daily log!
Pema Pera: there are many options
Pema Pera: like Fael’s, like Moon’s, others
Pema Pera: I agree with Cal that the basic idea really has potential
Pema Pera: from a logical point of view, I totally agree with Fael, that anything specific cannot be Being . . . .
Pema Pera: . . . so I can see the argument for a blur . . .
Pema Pera: . . . but in practice, people won’t “get it”, the reason for a blur
Pema Pera: so that may make the misunderstanding worse
Pema Pera: so I would tend to prefer the more crisp design of Moon
Pema Pera: if we make it nine flowers
Moon Fargis: 9 flowers. and maybe sakura like?
Pema Pera: then bell and flowers together suggest the 9-sec idea
Pema Pera: Being cannot be depicted, but “9 secs” can
More logo – about the blurring:
Pema Pera: Adams, did you see the logo?
Adams Rubble: No, I have no idea of what anyone’s talking about
Pema Pera: can you rezz it here, Moon?
Caledonia Heron: Moon posted an idea for a og on the website Adams
Pema Pera: So that we can all talk about it?
Fael Illyar: maybe something blurred and faint behind the bell being obscured by it?
Caledonia Heron: lol, for an og?
Caledonia Heron: yikes, for a logo
Pema Pera: well, Being is not blurry . . . .
Adams Rubble takes a look
Fael Illyar: yes, but our understanding of it is :)
Pema Pera: an og, Cal?
Moon Fargis: fael: well in design laws its cales logo+blur = death
Moon Fargis: thats how they told us :)
Caledonia Heron: sorry, bad typist early in the day
Caledonia Heron: logo
Caledonia Heron: my special shorthand (brain no reach finger)
Fael Illyar: I was thinking of something so blurred it looks more like smooth shade :P
Pema Pera: perhaps our understanding is already clear, but somehow we don’t “see” it yet . . . it is a very deep point, why and how we don’t “get” Being . . . blurry may be too simple . . . .
Adams Rubble is not finding the logo
Pema Pera: more like looking for your glasses everywhere without realizeing you are wearing them
Pema Pera: that’s not blurry
Pema Pera: it is overlooking
Pema Pera: seeing but not seeing
Fael Illyar: yes, I guess that’s one way to do it but quite hard to express in an image :)
Moon Fargis: ok what i will do now is, remove one flower
Pema Pera: exactly, Fael!
Pema Pera: and please, a B for Being
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: big difference
Moon Fargis: and maybe change the flowers to sakura like colour?
Caledonia Heron: yes Moon, one less - I like the 9 sec parallel plus it matches eastern art form,
Moon Fargis: oh
Pema Pera: hmmm, I like the black and white too
Caledonia Heron: yes, a capital B
Adams Rubble: I am having trouble seeing too. Please tell me how to get to it
Faenik: ah :)
Adams Rubble: I think I forgot my glasses
Moon Fargis: its on the ground adams
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: sundial!
Pema Pera: You can make a PaB sun dial
Moon Fargis: sun diual ?
Moon Fargis: whats that ?
Pema Pera: every fifteen minutes a ray of hope
Caledonia Heron: sun dual
Fael Illyar: This logo has the good side that you can make a working 3d impression of it though
Pema Pera: eine Sonne Uhr
Adams Rubble: I like it
Pema Pera: wie sagt man das in Deutsch
Fael Illyar: the bell in the center with flowers growing from the circle on the groun
Moon Fargis: sonenuhr achsoo ja
Pema Pera: die Sonne leuchtet
Moon Fargis: +n
Caledonia Heron: it could spin and the words could spin in counter fashion within it
Adams Rubble: I liebe es
Pema Pera: ja Sonnenuhr
Adams Rubble: Ich libe es
Pema Pera: almost, Adams!
Adams Rubble: oh well
Pema Pera: even your typing is like that of Moons!
Pema Pera: only a few typos per sentence :)
Adams Rubble: I’m having a bad morning after the keg party
Moon Fargis: let me try something one sec take a few minutes
Caledonia Heron:
Apparently Adams lost her balance for a bit:
Pema Pera: Adams, your performance yesterday was brilliant!
Pema Pera: stumbling was just too real
Faenik: why not?
Pema Pera: no wonder you are drinking coffee now!
Pema Pera: Cal, you should have seen Adams yesterday
Caledonia Heron: yes, a bit of a tipple?
Pema Pera: It was all Stevenaia’s fault
Caledonia Heron: details, details :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Adams Rubble feels a little woozy
Circadian rhythms:
Caledonia Heron: I almost always feel woozy this time of day :)
Caledonia Heron: not so much a morning person :)
Pema Pera: I’m not so much an evening person
Pema Pera: and it’s almost midnight again here
Pema Pera: Cal, you and I should meet 12 hours from now!
Caledonia Heron: lol
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: but then again, I had a couple of beers for dinner . . .
Pema Pera: but now a coffee afterwards in good Dutch style
Logo Redux:
Caledonia Heron: yes, the circle :)
Pema Pera: yes, I like the cirlce in Moon’s design
Adams Rubble: It is a good design
Caledonia Heron: yep
Pema Pera: I wonder whether we can get the 4 in there
Pema Pera: 4x/hour
Pema Pera: 4x/day
Pema Pera: practice and meeting
Pema Pera: 944
Pema Pera: better than 911
Caledonia Heron: we could make 4 white lines in the tassel of the bell
Caledonia Heron: make 4 strands
Pema Pera: or four marks in the circle
Pema Pera: both would work
Caledonia Heron: yes, at the clock positions :)Pema Pera: four thorns, with the nine flowers :-)
Pema Pera: like the sleeping beauty story
Caledonia Heron: or little triangles
Pema Pera: yes
Caledonia Heron: on the circle
A departure and logistics:
Pema Pera: Ah, sorry, I have to go to my astro meeting
Pema Pera: alas
Pema Pera: wish I could stay here
Caledonia Heron: yes, I have landing event soon
Fael Illyar: See you later Pema.
Pema Pera: I’m one of the new barristas
Caledonia Heron: bye Pema :)
Pema Pera: well, there is no hurry with the logo
Adams Rubble: Bye :)
Pema Pera: we can take our time and talk about it!
Pema Pera: Thanks again, Moon!!!!
Pema Pera: I very much appreciate your initiative
Pema Pera: see you all soon again!
Pema Pera: Fael, you’re taking the log, right?
Caledonia Heron: talk soon :)
Faenik: ????^^
Caledonia Heron: no, me today - we traded :)
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: yes, right
Caledonia Heron: Fael will take my June 18
Pema Pera: now I remember
Pema Pera: but you’re leaving too, yes?
Pema Pera: Perhaps Moon or Adams can pick it up?
Caledonia Heron: not that the log taker makes all that much difference :)
Pema Pera: Fael has done so many already!
Caledonia Heron: yes :)
Pema Pera: but the log does!
Pema Pera: I’d like to have the log
Caledonia Heron: I will stay a bit longer
Pema Pera: okay, c u all!
Logo, version 2:
Moon Fargis: okay
Moon Fargis: version 2
Caledonia Heron: k
Pema Pera: ah, great!
Pema Pera: even with the four points
Pema Pera: wonderful Moon!
Caledonia Heron: !!
Pema Pera: clap clap clap ! ! !
Fael Illyar: Ah, good, you removed the flower from the correct side, Moon :)
Moon Fargis: hehe thx
Adams Rubble: I just turned on the chat on my computer
Moon Fargis: i made a little grey outline for you fael
Moon Fargis: but blouring i think breaks any logo design law sorry:)
Caledonia Heron: agreed Moon - I get the blurring idea and….hard to translate to a logo
Moon Fargis: well its more the ability to reproduce it which stops bouring of even colur fades in logos
Fael Illyar: maybe you could have the bell but have it missing 75% of it’s pixels or something like that?
Moon Fargis: they have to be able to reproduced at print and plot
Caledonia Heron: yes I see - I was thinking more that it’s hard to translate the idea of what the blur means effectively
Moon Fargis: missing 75% of the pixels?
Fael Illyar: yes, so it’s only partially there
Fael Illyar: but pixels removed from all over it
Moon Fargis: well i think it would look more destroyed then :)
Fael Illyar: so that you can see the shape but it’s not complete
Caledonia Heron: how will you tell what it is ? or is that the point?
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble feels like she has a hairy black ball in her mouth
Moon Fargis: the other question would be.. what ixels? its a vector graphic:)
Caledonia Heron: in my email I suggested adding some detailing - white cutouts - on the inside - would that approximate your idea ?
Caledonia Heron: perhaps a glass of water Adams :)
Fael Illyar: white cutouts might approximate it, yes
Fael Illyar: I guess I have to make an example of the effect I meant.
Moon Fargis: yes :)
Moon Fargis: i really cant imagine it
Adams Rubble: sounds like good idea
Adams Rubble: bravo
Adams Rubble: picture worth a thousand words
Adams Rubble: take it from an art historian
Storm chimed in via email, can he hear our conversation?:
Caledonia Heron: well, Storm just sent an email that goes a very different way - it seems we have lots more to consider - I’ll stand by my comments, I like it overall,
Adams Rubble: me 2
Moon Fargis: oh one second let me read the email
Caledonia Heron: and there’s no rush so we can work with all the ideas
Fael Illyar: I have to say that I agree with storm on his points…. except the circle … maybe you could leave one part of the circle open?
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: like the top?
Caledonia Heron: like a vessel that fills and empties ? :)
Fael Illyar: Yes :)
Caledonia Heron: got it
Caledonia Heron: and…..the circle is such a perfect form
Moon Fargis: hmhmhmm so much to consider
Caledonia Heron: circle round, circle of friends, circle the earth
Moon Fargis: give nothingness a form hehe
Caledonia Heron: :)
Moon Fargis: maybe just a blank white logo
Moon Fargis: hehe
Caledonia Heron: that comment would suggest a no-logo
Caledonia Heron: LOL, yes!
Fael Illyar: I sent an example.png to the google group
Fael Illyar: it has circle with 90% of it’s pixels missing
Caledonia Heron: loading….
Adams Rubble: I’m reading Storm’s email and maybe Faenik should be in the center
Fael Illyar: Faenik?
Caledonia Heron: Faenik loves wells!!
Adams Rubble: exactly
Faenik: why not?
Adams Rubble: haha
Caledonia Heron: :)
Fael Illyar: … Faenik wants to be there I guess :P
Adams Rubble: I’d like to make one serious comment
Caledonia Heron: Faenik is a mascot, not a logo?
Comments on art by committee:
Adams Rubble: It is difficult to do this kind of thing by committee
Adams Rubble: because someone always is going to be disatisfied with something
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Caledonia Heron: yes, very true Adams
Fael Illyar: It’s difficult to do it even without
Fael Illyar: It’s just difficult in a different way
Adams Rubble: sometimes it is best to let the creator’s best shot do
Adams Rubble: just a thought
Moon Fargis: true adams:)
Adams Rubble: I do web pages and somebody always wants something else
Adams Rubble: then you make a change and somebody liked the old way better
Caledonia Heron: I think that’s accurate Adams, hence my comments to simply fine tune the logo, not scrap it for something else
Fael Illyar: Come to think of it, I’m also just suggesting tunes, although some are quite major :P
Caledonia Heron: yes, re web pages, manuscripts, any creative object with multiple contributors
Fael Illyar: Did you take a look at the example.png I put on the google groups page?
Caledonia Heron: yes, I see it now Fael
Moon Fargis: yep
Adams Rubble: no, please tell me how to get there
Fael Illyar: for vector graphics, you just need to decide on the pixel size :P
Adams Rubble: please help me see
Considering other way which the logo might be used:
Caledonia Heron: I wonder if the logo is to be print only or something that can be made an object also such as a metal sculpture
Moon Fargis: fael: when what happens when we scale that large image with less pixels to a small one for website?
Caledonia Heron: groups.google.com, uploaded files
Moon Fargis: squeeze and the pixels do a form again :)
Adams Rubble: help
Adams Rubble: what google page?
Caledonia Heron: groups.google.com, login to playasbeing group, got to uploaded files
Caledonia Heron: *go to
Caledonia Heron: ah, maybe you have not been added to the google group?
Fael Illyar: moon, we use big enough pixels in the first place … or possibly use bigger ones just for the downscaled version.
Caledonia Heron: again, you might consider that this limits you to print depictions
Fael Illyar: Aren’t we already limited to those?
Moon Fargis: fael: well i see your idea but believe me it wouldn’t look good
Fael Illyar: Yes, I think I agree, if the pixels are removed randomly, it won’t
Moon Fargis: +n
Caledonia Heron: well, I thought it might work to make a sculpture of it too, a mandala to hang in different parts of the forest
Moon Fargis: maybe we have to think more complex
Moon Fargis: or more simple?
Adams Rubble: help. It wants to give me the plastering group
Moon Fargis: maybe more simple complex
Adams Rubble: I was plastered
Caledonia Heron: maybe that’s why it showed up Adams :) funny that
Adams Rubble: ploayasbeing?
Adams Rubble: playasbeing?
Caledonia Heron: yes
Adams Rubble: hmmm….plastering
Caledonia Heron: the mandal could lead the way to the sea or the pub or wherever
Caledonia Heron: *mandala
Caledonia Heron: again, no rush to finish….lots of others will have opinions too :)
Caledonia Heron: the conversation has started!!
Fael Illyar: Yes, this shouldn’t be done in a day, probably not even in a week
Caledonia Heron: agreed -
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams discovers she’s not in the google group as yet:
Adams Rubble feels left out that she can’t get into the goggle group
Moon Fargis: hmm just got a idea
Moon Fargis: let me see if i can realize it
Caledonia Heron: ok, I must go - nice to see everyone and thanks to Fael for trading and Moon for the first cut at the logo
Caledonia Heron: we’ll get you in there Adams :)
Moon Fargis: sure ciao cal
Fael Illyar: See you Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: see you soon :)
Adams Rubble: have a good day Cal :)
