2008.06.02 13:00 - Blurring Past Fullness

Stim was the guardian that afternoon. He later sent me this chat log, to which I have added my comments. It seemed that Fael, Isen, Moon and Stim were all gathered at the tea house.

Stim Morane: Isen, we’ve been hearing the PaB bell every minute.
Isen Enzo: ah
Isen Enzo: i should pay attention…..
Stim Morane: a happy glitch
Moon Fargis: ok replaced it :)
Stim Morane: Isen, do you have any new comments re PaB?
Isen Enzo: Well, i was really interested in hearing about your new sim!!
Fael Illyar: I have been doing PaB every 15 minutes but nothing comes to mind on new things I have discovered.
Fael Illyar: As in, no new things
Stim Morane: Isen, I can’t say much about that, alas.
Stim Morane: OK, well the main thing is to maintain some continuity.
Isen Enzo: A friend returned after a ten year absence….
Stim Morane: Yes?
Isen Enzo: as a nichiren Buddhist!
Stim Morane: I see
Isen Enzo: Very nice.
Isen Enzo: I am Zen, but got to learn about her sect…
Isen Enzo: we chanted..
Stim Morane: yes, I expect so.
Fael Illyar: Hello Rajah
Faenik: could be
Rajah Yalin: hi everyone
Stim Morane: Hi Rajah!
Moon Fargis: hi rajah

Rajah joined the group.

Isen Enzo: namu horen gekyo…
Isen Enzo: over and over again..
Stim Morane: yes
Stim Morane: that’s their approach
Isen Enzo: in Soto Zen we just sit….
Isen Enzo: I guess they just chant…
Moon Fargis: hehe
Isen Enzo: shikantaza we call it…
Stim Morane: it’s a diff view
Isen Enzo: shikanchant, maybe they call it…
Isen Enzo: oh?
Stim Morane: But here, i wouldn’t mind seeing something of the Soto view to inform PaB
Isen Enzo: just play…
Isen Enzo: ??
Isen Enzo: shikan-PaBing
Isen Enzo: nice ring…
Isen Enzo: brb
Stim Morane: Yes, perhaps. There is a similarity between Soto Zen and PaB. Both emphasize that whatever we have is within the enlightened dimension.
Stim Morane: No reaching.
Stim Morane: the 9-sec format is meant to counteract the way in which the ordinary mind blurs past that fullness.

Stim had just summarized the PaB practice in one sentence.

Fael Illyar: blurs past fullness?
Fael Illyar: I’m not sure what that means
Stim Morane: habits, heedlessness, etc tend to dominate, crowding out appreciation
Stim Morane: the 9-sec practice can counter that.
Fael Illyar: Ah, now I see :)
Stim Morane: The Soto level of understanding this point is very advanced, but the point still applies
Moon Fargis: well in pab time i prefer to be nothing like in zen
Stim Morane: sure. But perhaps that applies to the style more than the essence?
Stim Morane: Or do you mean you really are interested in something diff?
Faenik: ah :)
Moon Fargis: differences are in our minds, if we take pab like the same as i take zen then there is no difference..
Stim Morane: so what did you mean re “nothing like in zen”?
Moon Fargis: no mind, no thoughts, no ego,

So Moon had meant “nothing, like in zen”.

Isen Enzo: back.
Isen Enzo: in black..
Isen Enzo: I read a great quote yesterday…
Moon Fargis: ah coffee isen
Isen Enzo: in one of the notes I pass round…
Isen Enzo: some one asked the roshi…
Isen Enzo: “how do I take my practice from the cushion… “
Isen Enzo: “to everyday… “
Isen Enzo: the roshi said…
Isen Enzo: “bring virtue to whatever you do… “
Isen Enzo: thats all..
Stim Morane: Yes. But what do you feel that means?
Isen Enzo: be there
Isen Enzo: do it
Isen Enzo: no half-assedness..
Isen Enzo: do it..
Isen Enzo: as best you can..
Stim Morane: yes.
Isen Enzo: with full attention..
Isen Enzo: not distracted..
Isen Enzo: or elsewhere
Isen Enzo: there
Moon Fargis: well i took several hours of tea ceremoy with a master as practisipant.. i think i know what he means
Isen Enzo: then
Isen Enzo: yes
Isen Enzo: ritual can help keep one in the moment…

Both Hotaru and Sky showed up, at about the same time.

Fael Illyar: Hello Hotaru, Sky :)
Isen Enzo: Buddhafly!!
Moon Fargis: ah hi hotaru
Moon Fargis: sky
Stim Morane: Hi Hotaru and Sky
Hotaru Myoo: Hola amigos!
Isen Enzo: los seis amigos…
Isen Enzo: los dos amigas..
Hotaru Myoo: muy bueno
Isen Enzo: tres amigas..
Isen Enzo: dos amigas.
Isen Enzo: moving amigas..
Hotaru Myoo: cha cha cah
Fael Illyar: Ok, what was that?
Isen Enzo: brb
Stim Morane: sure
Hotaru Myoo: i2 cha
Isen Enzo: some female av came and went..
Hotaru Myoo: cha cha
Isen Enzo: brb
Hotaru Myoo: lol
Fael Illyar: She’s still in chat range, Hello arabella
Hotaru Myoo: this is a spritely group today!
Moon Fargis: shall we dance?:)
Hotaru Myoo: tag
Hotaru Myoo: you it

From the log, it seemed that some commotion had been going on, while in the mean time Arabella walked by.

arabella Ella: hiya
Stim Morane: Hi Arabella
arabella Ella: sorry i had some camera control probs
Stim Morane: well done!
Hotaru Myoo: sorry..
Hotaru Myoo: :)
Stim Morane: Isen, are you back?
Hotaru Myoo: hi arabella
arabella Ella: hiya
Hotaru Myoo: no Isen is front
Stim Morane: OK, well we’ll pick up his point shortly. What else shall we discuss?
Fael Illyar: are you new here arabella?
arabella Ella: yes i am
Stim Morane: welcome
arabella Ella: may i stay on for a short while please?
Moon Fargis: well i just finished the first play as being hermitage house
Hotaru Myoo: hiya
Moon Fargis: for us guardians
Hotaru Myoo: so kewl
Stim Morane: we’re having a very open chat, but also considering a form of practice that helps relate directly to life’s fullness
Hotaru Myoo: tell more us more Moon
Faenik: why not?
arabella Ella: sounds fascinating
Moon Fargis: well i think i will do several ones where you can choose when yo like
Moon Fargis: for your home
Moon Fargis: when you like
Hotaru Myoo: kewl

Unperturbed by the various other strands of conversation, Stim explained about Play as Being.

Stim Morane: the idea is simply to stop briefly every 15 minutes and appreciate what is present
arabella Ella: yes
arabella Ella: brilliant
Stim Morane: this could mean many things, which is where our meetings here gain complexity
Stim Morane: we are trying to keep the basic approach simple, but there is much to discuss
arabella Ella: yes i understand this is not new to me
Stim Morane: yes, I thought so
arabella Ella: although it is my first time here
Stim Morane: the possibilities range from mindfulness, to very advanced awakeness of original dimensions of Being
Hotaru Myoo: that’s a range alright
arabella Ella: yes i understand this
Stim Morane: good
arabella Ella: through increased awareness of one’s state of consciousness
arabella Ella: and meditation and awareness
Moon Fargis: yes something like a micro meditation
arabella Ella: yes
Stim Morane: exactly

For Arabella the main PaB idea seemed to fit right in.

Fael Illyar: Also, this meeting is blogged, are you fine with what you say being blogged, arabella?
arabella Ella: the only thing is that i cannot stay for very long and i hope that is not a problem for you
Stim Morane: good point, thanks Fael!
Hotaru Myoo: marks on a chalkboard …clicks on a stick
Stim Morane: no problem, arabella
arabella Ella: and no i have no problem with this being blogged
arabella Ella: only i have to leave in a few minutes as i have a previous appointment
arabella Ella: but i would appreciate being informed of a future session please?
Hotaru Myoo: nice to leave some detritus around behind
arabella Ella: because this interests me very much
Fael Illyar: meetings are held every day at 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm.
Hotaru Myoo: 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm
Stim Morane: Yes, you are welcome at any of those times, every day, Arabella
Fael Illyar: SL time, of course :)
Stim Morane: yes
Stim Morane: I’m not sure if Isen will be back shortly, but he raised the point of being fully present, focused. This involves many different cases, which we could discuss.
Sky Szimmer: what are the different cases stim?

Stim briefly took time off for a technical question.

Stim Morane: actually, I have a question on another matter … do any of you use “mouse view” while sitting here?
Stim Morane: sorry sky, one sec
Moon Fargis: no not me
arabella Ella: no
Hotaru Myoo: not me
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: you mean mouselook? no I do not.
Sky Szimmer: no
Stim Morane: yes mouselook
Isen Enzo: I’m back!
Stim Morane: oh good
Hotaru Myoo: front!
Isen Enzo: I’m here now.
Isen Enzo: front to back!
Isen Enzo: side to side..
Moon Fargis takes the middle
arabella Ella: please dont misunderstand i would love to stay but …
Hotaru Myoo: always in balance
arabella Ella: i have a previous committment
Stim Morane: I was asking about mouselook because I notice some of you have much better avatar control than I do (I’m just a newbie)
Isen Enzo: I don’t give a damn, cus i done it already…
arabella Ella: and must go
Fael Illyar: arabella, coming and going is free. No need to feel worried.
arabella Ella: but i will be back
Stim Morane: ok, thanks for joining us
Hotaru Myoo: no control here

Arabella left, and the conversation tumbled on.

arabella Ella: thank you so much
arabella Ella: bye for now
Moon Fargis: bye arabella
Hotaru Myoo: I work with the little peanut of a button in my keyboard
Isen Enzo: Bye Arabella.
Hotaru Myoo: bye arabella
Stim Morane: Isen, shall we follow up on your comments?
Fael Illyar: So, fullness?
Stim Morane: or fullness?
Isen Enzo: ok
Hotaru Myoo: hmmm
Isen Enzo: I am here and there so to speak…
Isen Enzo: trying to be here and in RL at the same time…
Isen Enzo: very difficult..
Stim Morane: yes
Moon Fargis: multitasking
Hotaru Myoo: latte?
Isen Enzo: actually doesn’t work at all…
Moon Fargis: multi…realitything
Isen Enzo: either here or there..
Isen Enzo: not both..

Stim tried to get the discussion more focused.

Stim Morane: this is itself an interesting issue for me. I wonder if the modern emphasis on multitasking is consistent with contemplative practice.
Moon Fargis: just be as being :)
Isen Enzo: try, but can’t do it..
Faenik: なるほど^^
Fael Illyar: Oh yes, I can’t handle RL and SL at the same time. One or the other will get less attention.
Isen Enzo: no matter how hard I try…
Isen Enzo: one or the other..
Hotaru Myoo: I think that is ubiquitous
Isen Enzo: I don’t think I can hold more than one thing at a time- in my mind..
Stim Morane: Yes, that is the traditional way, for sure. But modern life is pushing in other directions.
Hotaru Myoo: but it tis the nature of our lives
Hotaru Myoo: sound bites
Isen Enzo: no double-think..
Stim Morane: yes
Isen Enzo: sound bites/ love hurts…
Stim Morane: this is why in rl I take my students on retreat often
Hotaru Myoo: me too
Isen Enzo: Retreats rock!
Stim Morane: and why this PaB group in SL might help. But “might” is the key word.
Hotaru Myoo: but even those experiences can be fractured
Stim Morane: yes

Fael expressed what I have experienced too, at various occasions.

Fael Illyar: Strangely, I can handle several conversations at the same time in text, somehow but if one of them is voice, it tends to dominate.
Stim Morane: it takes a while to settle in
Sky Szimmer: but that is how modern life is, how to still be fully present and focused still
Stim Morane: yes, that’s not surprising. Voice has a lot of history behind its influence.
Hotaru Myoo: we have had discussions over the pros and cons of voice
Moon Fargis: i think we thing in one reality too much already dubble think is doubble worse.. exept you d a dubble zazen after it :)
Hotaru Myoo: what is the onsensus here?
Stim Morane: re voice vs text?
Faenik: なるほど^^
Hotaru Myoo: yes
Stim Morane: for me, that’s a complex question and I will indeed take a year to decide.
Hotaru Myoo: btw …an onsensus sure beats a consensus
Hotaru Myoo: more relaxing
Isen Enzo: easier to focus with a focus….
Hotaru Myoo: haha
Moon Fargis: hmm my dict is buning
Moon Fargis: r
Stim Morane: But I have no doubts that for our present purposes, text is better
Fael Illyar: Group conversation like this tends to take more effort than a one on one conversation, so even one IM tends to make things hard if it happens at the same time with this.
Isen Enzo: the problem with staying focused in open-ended situation….
Hotaru Myoo: yes..
Hotaru Myoo: but it reads like poetry
Isen Enzo: my prob with PaBing…
Isen Enzo: chopping carrrots a lot different…
Hotaru Myoo: and has so many more opportunity to flourish
Stim Morane: yes
Stim Morane: I understand both of you
Stim Morane: I wonder if we can help make PaB sessions more simple and direct.

Good question!

Hotaru Myoo: yes..
Isen Enzo: well.
Hotaru Myoo: we slow down and listen
Isen Enzo: In the woods, i can just listen to whats going on…
Hotaru Myoo: breathe
Stim Morane: I would like that too.
Moon Fargis: fael: now the bell works perfect :)
Isen Enzo: here, there is some pressure to participate….
Stim Morane: Yes, the bell is behaving now
Hotaru Myoo: true
Isen Enzo: unlike in a natural situation..
Stim Morane: I’m such a newbie in SL, I find keeping up not only difficult but distasteful. But that’s my limitation.
Isen Enzo: I mean- as far as natural situations go…..
Isen Enzo: this aint it!
Isen Enzo: a bunch of avatars ….
Fael Illyar: Now that the bells will be synchronized, how about another on the other side of this teahouse?
Isen Enzo: in a vintual world…
Isen Enzo: babbling…
Isen Enzo: in an unfocused way…
Hotaru Myoo: at a screen
Stim Morane: Fael, perhaps we could talk with Dakini and Pema about an extra bell
Moon Fargis: fael: i thought about one on every hermitage any maye also o the way throight the sea
Moon Fargis: so that you will hear a gong everywhere no matter where you are
Hotaru Myoo: lol
Hotaru Myoo: love it
Isen Enzo: My ears ring now…
Hotaru Myoo: but that was because of the flight migration
Hotaru Myoo: never recovered
Isen Enzo: yes…

Stim made one more attempt at focusing the conversation.

Stim Morane: we have just mentioned many things. But perhaps we could try letting one person at a time discuss her/his experience of PaB … not now, perhaps, but in our next session.
Isen Enzo: all the twithtering…
Stim Morane: I’m old fashioned, I’m afraid.
Hotaru Myoo: but this is group chat
Isen Enzo: yup, me too…
Stim Morane: I know …
Hotaru Myoo: and there are so many opportunities given the nonlinear aspect of group
Hotaru Myoo: hate to miss it
Fael Illyar: The beauty of text communication is that it’s actually possible to handle several people talking at the same time and keep up with them all. At least with some practise.
Hotaru Myoo: yes
Stim Morane: But group chat could be based on the “one person at a time” format, perhaps? Yes, I see the nonlinear aspects too. I’m not trying to shed those. Just to make a space for presence.
Hotaru Myoo: depends on the time of day
Hotaru Myoo: the 3am meetings can be deafening
Isen Enzo: We could raise our hands….
Isen Enzo: Hey!
Hotaru Myoo: (1am sl)
Hotaru Myoo: ohm…
Moon Fargis remembers how it was to be in a cht with about 200 people once i internet
Moon Fargis: all talk throught 1 window

But then it was time for Stim to leave.

Stim Morane: I’m going to have to leave now. Perhaps I’ve raised a suggestion that is too controversial for this setting.
Isen Enzo: You mean like Roberts Rules- wait for recognition, then have the floor uninteruppted?
Hotaru Myoo: no never
Stim Morane: In any case, I look forward to hearing all of you at once, and also one of you at a time. Somehow.
Hotaru Myoo: Stim…this is all good
Isen Enzo: lol
Sky Szimmer: bye
Moon Fargis: bye stim
Hotaru Myoo: Sky too?
Isen Enzo: See you later…
Hotaru Myoo: Bye Stim and Sky
Hotaru Myoo: Ciao
Fael Illyar: The group size needs to be kept reasonable, otherwise some kind of control is necessary
Moon Fargis: bye sky
Stim Morane: thanks, see you soon. I would like to return to the issues Fael and Isen raised.
Isen Enzo: yes
Fael Illyar: Bye Sky, Stim