That afternoon, Stim was the guardian. He sent me the following chat log together with his comments.
I (Stim) showed up a bit early, just in case there was trouble logging into SL. As I sat quietly in the tea house, I noticed others gathering in the garden outside … I was curious to see if they would come in …
Fael Illyar: Hello Adams
Adams Rubble: Hello Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Ah, stim is inside
Fael Illyar: Hello Stim :)
Adams Rubble: Is he. I didn’t see him go in
Stim Morane: Hi Fael!
Adams Rubble: Hi Stim
Fael Illyar: Hi Moon
Adams Rubble: Hi Moon
Stim Morane: Hi Adams
Moon Fargis: wahi everyone
Fael Illyar: wahi?
Stim Morane: Hi Moon!
Moon Fargis: heh hi i mean
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: So, inside or outside ?
Moon Fargis: or
Moon Fargis: :)
Fael Illyar: I guess some can go in and some out but …
Moon Fargis: okok inside:)
As it turned out, there was an incentive to come in—the newly reprogrammed teapot!
Moon Fargis: lets take a look at the spinning teapot :)
Stim Morane: Yes, here it is
Fael Illyar: now it changes direction too :)
Stim Morane: ah, I hadn’t noticed
Fael Illyar: and gradually too :)
Stim Morane: good
Adams Rubble: somebody tp me in please
Stim Morane: so, what shall we discuss today?
Stim Morane: Oh, could someone help Adams?
Fael Illyar: done
Stim Morane: thanks
Adams Rubble: thank you Fael
Fael Illyar: Hi Pia
Adams Rubble: sorry
Adams Rubble: whew
Stim Morane: Hi Pia
Adams Rubble: Hi Pia
Pia Iger: hi, everyone.
Adams Rubble: nice shades Moon
Adams Rubble: yes Fael :)
Faenik loves wells!
Moon Fargis: h thx:)
As things settled down, I floated an invitation to begin.
Stim Morane: several of you have probably been here more often than I in the past week. I’ll leave it to you to decide what would be most interesting to discuss.
Stim Morane: Hi Isen!
Adams Rubble: Hi Isen
Isen entered with dark shades, not unlike those Moon was wearing: two monk-avatars in shades.
Adams Rubble: nice shades Isen
Pia Iger: Stim, We talked about anger again this morning.
Moon Fargis: the monk brothers
Adams Rubble: hehe
Moon Fargis: ah wait then we still need one
Stim Morane: Interesting
Pia Iger: so I suggest we go deeper in this session.
Isen Enzo: I’m Jake…
Stim Morane: Anger seems to be a favorite topic
Isen Enzo: I hate anger…
Isen Enzo: lol
Fael Illyar: Yes, anger has been popular lately :)
Adams Rubble: good for you Isen
Fael Illyar: that’s an amusing way to put it :)
Stim Morane: anger is one of the most destructive emotions, from a traditional point of view. But it is also the most instructive
Stim Morane: Do any of you have any comments to extend what has already been said?
Moon Fargis: anger and hate i guess
Stim Morane: Yes, hatred too.
Moon Fargis: i hate t hate :)
Moon Fargis: to
Faenik: could be
Pia Iger: this am, Star gave us a detailed illness related to repression of anger.
Pia Iger: physical illness.
Isen Enzo: wow
Stim Morane: yes, I’m not surprised
Moon Fargis: ahyes that happens
Moon Fargis: alot emotions are not controllable in a direct way
Stim Morane: it can be seen directly and thus emptied out, or learned from, but repression is not a good option
Fael Illyar: a form of rheumatoid arthitis that affects muscles
Isen Enzo: wow
Isen Enzo: arthritis from anger?
Stim Morane: I think many illnesses could be added to the list
Fael Illyar: from repressing anger
Isen Enzo: hm…
Pia Iger: yes.
Moon Fargis: yes like “flitzekacke”
Stim Morane: So tell me, can you “see” anger?
Isen Enzo: feel it..
Fael Illyar: What I’m wondering, though, is if “letting go” of anger is repressing it
Stim Morane: yes, it has to include feeling too, the whole physicality of it
Isen Enzo: We talked yesterday about not attaching to anger..
Stim Morane: good q Fael … does anyone have an opinion re this?
Pia Iger: they are not same
Isen Enzo: can’t avoid anger, but don’t have to attach to it or invest in it…
Isen Enzo: like our wandering thoughts in zazen..
Moon Fargis: well thoughts are conected with emotions.. no thoughts no emotions… easy isnt it?)
Stim Morane: yes, there’s no need to avoid its arising. The question is “what then?”
Moon Fargis: sadly.. there are confuse silent thoghts
Pia Iger: “see anger”, to recognise its color, shape and strength.
Stim Morane: This is tricky … the word “see” can mean many things.
Pia Iger: right. I hope you can say more about it. “see”
Isen Enzo: recognize it?
Stim Morane: it doesn’t mean “I see”. it means “what something Is” without further overlay, interpretations, associations, etc
Stim Morane: But then we’ve just traded one tricky word with another.
Isen Enzo: hoo boy…
Pia Iger: tricky..
Stim Morane: coming back to Moon’s point, anger is part of a whole complex of mind movements.
Isen Enzo: yes
Stim Morane: Break the chain anywhere.
Stim Morane: There are several ways to break the chain.
Stim Morane: Seeing is the best, but the most advanced.
Moon Fargis: sadly thoughts are no chain..
Stim Morane: Perhaps it’s better to start where he suggested, by just declining, or not indulging.
Stim Morane: the chain of thoughts, identifications with a small self, judgments etc is a chain
Moon Fargis: ahh you mean a chain of that ind
Stim Morane: fortunately, each thought, each feeling itself is not a chain
Faenik: could be
Isen Enzo: anger is an unskillful reaction to adverse stimulation…
Fael Illyar: what is part of this chain?
Stim Morane: the point is that the chain itself is not a chain … if seen sufficiently directly, adding nothingn, subtracting nothing, it’s “broken”
Stim Morane: Finished
Stim Morane: anger is self
Stim Morane: anger is self-finished
Stim Morane: sorry about t he typo
Adams Rubble: I like the idea that anger is an unskillful reaction
Stim Morane: yes, that’s certainly a fair thing to say
Isen Enzo: need to identify what needs changed..
Isen Enzo: but anger is not helpful..
Faenik: ah :)
Adams Rubble: yes Isen
Stim Morane: it does seem like a little kid’s take on something
Fael Illyar: It rings true, people tend to react with anger to words when they can no longer think of words
Isen Enzo: not being angry doesnt mean not doingn anything about the situation…
Stim Morane: true, Isen
Moon Fargis: stim: emotions like re littly crying childs
Moon Fargis: or kids
Stim Morane: we’re not recommending numbness
Stim Morane: yes Moon
Moon Fargis: ignoring them will make them cry louder, accept them will stop crying mostly
Stim Morane: anyway, emptiness is not repression
Stim Morane: emptiness is just what things are
Moon Fargis: emptiess is the result
Moon Fargis: of accepting
Moon Fargis: imo
Stim Morane: emptiness is the Suchness of all things, good or bad
Stim Morane: yes, acceptance
Stim Morane: but that’s another tricky word
Stim Morane: it could be many things
Fael Illyar: We’ve got many tricky words today :)
Pia Iger: :)
Stim Morane: it’s not surprising … it just means all the ordinary options are inadequate … but it’s the ordinary options that words usually point at
Stim Morane: we want to use ordinary words in a nonordinary way
Stim Morane: that nonordinary way is still a natural way
Stim Morane: supremely natural
Faenik: why not?
Stim Morane: again, the chain is broken … it doesn’t need to be broken
Pia Iger: I like that, sounds right.
Stim Morane: repression would be doing something … but that has side-effects
Stim Morane: a chain-reaction
Stim Morane: it’s nice that things are all finished, without contrivance
Pia Iger: so most time we can’t see chain is broken..
Stim Morane: anger is the most resistant … but that just means it makes the point particularly clearly
Stim Morane: yes, right Pia
Stim Morane: we don’t want to see it!
Pia Iger: why?
Stim Morane: But it Is so
Stim Morane: why do we not want to? Well, what do you all say?
Fael Illyar: the chain is broken … when?
Adams Rubble: With apologies, I must go. Bye everyone :)
Fael Illyar: when you’re angry?
Fael Illyar: Bye Adams
Stim Morane: Oh, OK. Bye Adams!
Moon Fargis: uhm by adams:)
Moon Fargis: e
Faenik loves wells!
Pia Iger: bye, Adams.
Isen Enzo: Bye Adams
Stim Morane: Fael, the chain is self-broken … it looks like a chain, we want it to be a chain, but it isn’t a chain
Stim Morane: the self is like that too … another apparent but not actual chain
Stim Morane: same issue
Fael Illyar: ok, this sounds like something I’m not getting
Pia Iger: puzzled…
Uh oh, time to regroup.
Stim Morane: OK, sorry
Stim Morane: let’s back up…
Stim Morane: where would you suggest we start, Fael?
Fael Illyar: well, the chain, self-broken or whatever, I don’t quite understand what it is.
Stim Morane: yes, perhaps we’ve gone past the usefulness of that word
Faenik: ah :)
Stim Morane: would you like to start with something that seems tangible to you?
Fael Illyar: that might help
Stim Morane: please feel free …
Fael Illyar: ok, we were talking about anger so … hard to think of anything more than that that I can see as tangible
Stim Morane: OK, but anger “goes on” …
Stim Morane: apparently
Fael Illyar: you mean feeds itself?
Stim Morane: that’s the issue I was addressing by using the word “chain”
Stim Morane: yes, it just wants to keep running, burning
Stim Morane: it’s the run-on issue
Isen Enzo: you mean like karmic momentum…?
Stim Morane: yes, not just like that, but exactly that
Fael Illyar: and this anger feeding itself is what you mean by chain?
Isen Enzo: an action in motion tends to stay in motion?
Stim Morane: yes. If just stopped, it wouldn’t amount to much. And if it were self-stopped, it would be “empty”, immediately.
Stim Morane: Yes, there’s a Newtonian character to this Isen.
Isen Enzo: Well, you can’t put a fire out by fanning the flames…
Stim Morane: perhaps you could put anger/fire out that way, but it would be risky.
Isen Enzo: unless, you just wanted it to burn itself out..
Stim Morane: yes, exactly.
Stim Morane: but it takes quite a toll to do that
Isen Enzo: Better not to start..
Stim Morane: yes, although as Moon pointed out, it happens (it does start)
Isen Enzo: or if not, notice as close to the start as possible…
Isen Enzo: like in zazen..
Faenik: なるほど^^
Stim Morane: anyway, one simple angle on this is just to see it, yes Isen, to notice as soon as you can …
Isen Enzo: bud nipping..
Fael Illyar: Hi Delani
Stim Morane: yes, righth
Delani Gabardini: hi all
Moon Fargis: ah hi delani
Stim Morane: Hi Delani!
Pia Iger: so the part I don’t get is why “we don’t want to see it!”?
Pia Iger: Hi,Delani
Stim Morane: “we” are part of the run-on character … we “are” an attachment
Delani Gabardini: hi pia, fael, stim
Delani Gabardini: sorry I am late
Stim Morane: quite all right …
Isen Enzo: Delani is our Blues Sister..
Moon Fargis: ok now monk brothers/sister s:)
Isen Enzo: uh oh…
Moon treats us to another dance.
Stim Morane: I haven’t see this one before, thanks!
Moon Fargis: ohh i like it its soo silly:)
Stim Morane: very sprightly
At this point, Isen asked about my own background in RL, and we spent about a minute on traditional study, concluding with the Indian Shastra (commentarial) movement.
Stim Morane: but the trick is to see the applications, not just the bickering
Isen Enzo: yea
Stim Morane: we’re talking about that now, here
Isen Enzo: inter-school rivalry?
Stim Morane: it all comes down to attachment, run-on, breaking the apparent chain
Isen Enzo: “be true to your school! “
Stim Morane: yes, schools liked to argue, I don’t
Isen Enzo: “show the colors”
Stim Morane: right!
Stim Morane: for me, there is no need for arguing …
Isen Enzo: nah..
Stim Morane: especially not with anger
Moon Fargis: “and all i see is nothing”
Stim Morane: yes
Stim Morane: meditation masters don’t see much to argue about
Isen Enzo: anger not good even in a fight situation..
Stim Morane: right, it’s couterproductive
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Isen Enzo: get the other guy angry.
Stim Morane: counter-
Isen Enzo: not you..
Stim Morane: I hope we can all enjoy sharing stuff without the need for that
Fael Illyar: :)
Stim Morane: anyway, anger is always a good teacher …
Stim Morane: it shows so much, so quickly
Delani Gabardini: doesn’t anger generally mask pain
Moon Fargis: hmm cant remember when i lately felt anger
Moon Fargis: must have been years now….
Pia Iger: I constantly feel anger.
Stim Morane: some people aren’t inclined to anger …
Delani Gabardini: anger is a waste of energy
Stim Morane: if anger isn’t available, there’s always something else
Stim Morane: yes, it wastes a huge amount of energy
Stim Morane: it also trashes your cultivation of “virtue” in the traditional sense.
I mentioned this latter because Isen had brought up “virtue” in a previous meeting.
Pia Iger: I want to know not just disattach, but also how to learn from it.
Fael Illyar: I’m a bit hesitant to say I’m rarely angry although my hesitation might be mistaking something else for anger.
Stim Morane: who is angry? At what or whom? Why so strongly? These are things to learn from.
Fael Illyar: I tend to not be angry with other people at least.
Stim Morane: again, some people are not very afflicted by this passion
Stim Morane: my teachers were very good at making me angry …
Pia Iger: good teacher, maybe??
Stim Morane: yes, but I didn’t think so at the time
Fael Illyar: I have this faint memory of thinking “this is too tiring, I’ll stop this” years past.
Delani Gabardini: agree fael
Stim Morane: anyway, no need to acquire anger if it doesn’t come naturally. There’s always another way to learn …
Delani Gabardini: i gave up anger as a bad habit
Stim Morane: Yes, good. That was itself a kind of “seeing” … I think you do get what we were saying before.
Stim Morane: the rest is just fine details …
Delani Gabardini: Buddhism has taught me to put down my swords of anger
Stim Morane: Good, Delani. That’s quite an accomplishment
Delani Gabardini: i have had very good teachers
Isen Enzo: important to identify what’s wrong, not necessairy to get angry about it…
Fael Illyar: Although, I sometimes have some feeling that I think resembles anger when I’m reading news sometimes. Especially concerning new laws.
Isen Enzo: a bad situation is not improved by a scowl- only hurts your face..
Stim Morane: so moving on to another point we were discussing before, in a previous week I was saying even anger is part of the continuity of something real and right, “Being” or whatever you want to call it
Delani Gabardini: and makes wrinkles
Now we were getting into the really important stuff.
Fael Illyar: although, I suspect it’s not quite the same
Stim Morane: wrinkles! Oh no!
Delani Gabardini: hehe
Isen Enzo: We hate wrinkles!!
Stim Morane: even worse than debilitating diseases
Moon Fargis: ??
Faenik: なるほど^^
Pia Iger: I have not seen a single wrinkle in SL:)
Stim Morane: I wonder why …
Delani Gabardini: hi faenik
Moon Fargis: ehm
Moon Fargis: what is a wrinkle?
Faenik: Hi Delani.
Stim Morane: I’m not sure how to answer …
Delani Gabardini: it is when the skin ages and droops and forms creases
Delani Gabardini: caused by anger
Delani Gabardini: smile
Moon Fargis: uhm
Moon Fargis adds another ? to his ?? and opens a dict
Delani Gabardini: find it moon?
Moon Fargis: ahhh
Moon Fargis: now i understand
Stim Morane: it’s the old idea … if you truly relax, your face forms a slight smile.
Pia Iger: nice.
Stim Morane: if you are upset about something, your face contorts, with effort, and with consequences
Moon Fargis: well in zazen..my eyes and nose lies on the ground :)
Stim Morane: Ha!
Fael Illyar: I wonder if truly relaxed face was what I was going for when I last edited my AV
Delani Gabardini: u do have that look fael - very pleasant
Fael Illyar: it ended up quite close to what I wanted :)
Faenik: ah :)
Delani Gabardini: oh no
Delani Gabardini: ants in his pants
Moon Fargis: *squeeeze*
Stim Morane: thanks again! Well to move towards wrapping up …
Delani Gabardini: i am sorry I was so late
Delani Gabardini: sounds like it was interesting - will read the blog
Pia Iger: maybe next time, we can talk more on continuity of “Being’.
Fael Illyar: I guess I’ll not use this attachment, I find SL’s smiles creepy :) Thank you, though, Moon
Moon Fargis: ok see you later then stim :) i think we should talk more:)
Stim Morane: Oh, I didn’t mean to suggest you have to stop … I will be going soon, however.
Stim Morane: I think there are several threads we could explore more …
Pia Iger: good, I look forward to that.
Delani Gabardini: thank u stim
Stim Morane: Thanks to all of you!
Stim Morane: So once I leave, are you going to have a party?
Delani Gabardini: we will sing and dance
Moon Fargis: yees we daance:)
Moon Fargis: hehe
Stim Morane: Good.
Moon Fargis: but first i also have to prepare a log
Fael Illyar: When I’m reading news about new laws that are either passed or planning stage, I sometimes get a bit annoyed for a while and then it changes to resignedness.
Isen Enzo: Yo!
Fael Illyar: well, some of them at least
Delani Gabardini: well just think at some point none of it will matter to u
Isen Enzo: Ha- part of my practice is to watch the news and try not to talk back to the TV….
Stim Morane: Well this looks like the beginning rather than the end. Good! Bye all!
Moon Fargis: babbling the tv again ?:)
Moon Fargis: bye stim :)
Delani Gabardini: namaste stim
Fael Illyar: Bye Stim :)
