2008.06.18 07:00 - Three small children

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    That morning I was able to get into SL, and to walk up to the tea house, but I could not stay long. In any case, Fael reminded me that she was the guardian that morning and later she sent me the complete chat log, together with her comments.

    I had set my AV waiting at the teahouse 10 minutes earlier and had been AFK. I came back just in time to find Pema greeting me.

    Pema Pera: Hi Fael!
    Pema Pera: Greetings from Nagoya
    Pema Pera: I’m in the bullet train, 新幹線、and I’m on my way to Kyoto
    Fael Illyar: Hi Pema
    Pema Pera: Wow, Adams!
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams
    Pema Pera: Sister Adams?
    Adams Rubble: Hi Fael
    Fael Illyar: Ah, nun today?
    Pema Pera: Looks nice!
    Adams Rubble: Toning down the Buddhism today :)
    Fael Illyar: I’ve been lazy about changing clothes lately :)

    First we shuffle around with who is the guardian for the day

    Adams Rubble: let me check that the log is recording
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: It’s my turn as a guardian today
    Pema Pera: Right now?
    Fael Illyar: yes, I traded with Cal, remember?
    Pema Pera: Ah! I forgot
    Pema Pera: sorry about that
    Pema Pera: it is so confusing with Japan being 3/4 day ahead of California
    Pema Pera: with the date line . . . .
    Pema Pera: okay, Adams, so you don’t have to worry then
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Pema Pera: Fael will capture the log!
    Adams Rubble: The chat log disappeared from my lap top for some reason so I like to keep checking
    Adams Rubble: I lost Sunday night’s log when you told me important things
    Adams Rubble: and I was too tired to rememer them
    Adams Rubble: so I am waiting to see it posted
    Pema Pera: Sunday, let’s see, that was the 15th, that is up now!
    Fael Illyar: was that IM or here?
    Fael Illyar: … oh wait, I’m not thinking :)
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/an-incredible-seven-days/
    Adams Rubble: That was chat…but the whole folder for second life disappeared
    Adams Rubble: Oh thanks Pema
    Fael Illyar: whole folder? … ok, that’s strange
    Pema Pera: the title was taken from your remark :=)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: your first week :-)
    Pema Pera: well, the train is picking up speed now
    Pema Pera: and tunnels are looming up

    Pema is about to lose internet connection and bids us goodbye for now.

    Fael Illyar: might be a good idea to take backups of the logfiles every morning or night :)
    Pema Pera: so I’ll have to say good bye for now
    Pema Pera: yes indeed
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you Pema :)
    Adams Rubble: OK good to see you Pema
    Pema Pera: bfn!
    Adams Rubble: bye
    Fael Illyar: I haven’t had problems with logs disappearing though
    Adams Rubble: Your using the cool version :)
    Adams Rubble: and Linux
    Fael Illyar: shouldn’t make that much of a difference but you never know.
    Adams Rubble: I was thinking my laptop mught have cleared temp files to make room
    Fael Illyar: I do have to remember to check the log settings every time I upgrade to new version though. Those get turned off for some reason
    Adams Rubble: It was gone on MOnday
    Fael Illyar: you should be able to tell SL where to put the logs
    Adams Rubble: I did now
    Fael Illyar: ah, good :)

    Finally done discussing technical issues.

    Adams Rubble: Last night this little girl showed up at the meeing
    Adams Rubble: I forget her name it was something like Sufail or something like that
    Adams Rubble: she lives in the community here
    Adams Rubble: she was very funny
    Adams Rubble: she did all kinds of little kid stuff
    Adams Rubble: and then started spouting these profound statements
    Fael Illyar: interesting :)
    Adams Rubble: at one point she said Fred reminded her of her college professor who had taught Paul Tillich :)
    Adams Rubble: I almost fell over :)
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: Hi Faemik
    Adams Rubble: Do you see a big blue ball on my lap?
    Fael Illyar: nope
    Adams Rubble: i DO. LET ME RESET
    Faenik: Hello Adams.
    Adams Rubble: Ah that’s better
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Adams Rubble: Very peaceful here this morning
    Fael Illyar: uuh, I just noticed I was close to running low on disc space. meaning, I only have log from before that in my backlog.

    Then I noticed my hard drive was full so the log wasn’t getting written anymore. Good thing I checked so I could cut&paste from the visible backlog.

    Adams Rubble: so you’re not recording now?
    Fael Illyar: no, I am again
    Adams Rubble: Did you get the beginning?
    Fael Illyar: I can still cut&paste it
    Adams Rubble: OK, otherwise I will have it :)
    Adams Rubble: Pema’s suggestion probably is a good one
    Fael Illyar: ok, saved
    Fael Illyar: which one?
    Adams Rubble: to save after each session
    Adams Rubble: that would keep the big one cleaned out of garbage
    Fael Illyar: :)

    Sky arrives and I suddenly remember that I had noticed something the very same morning. (this meeting is 5pm in Finland)

    Fael Illyar: I prefer logging everything
    Fael Illyar: Hi Sky
    Adams Rubble: Hi Sky
    Sky Szimmer: hi there
    Fael Illyar: I noticed something interesting today about meditating.
    Sky Szimmer: yes?
    Adams Rubble: yes?
    Fael Illyar: this is going to sound a bit confusing and conflicting but … If I don’t feel like meditating, but force myself anyway, it doesn’t seem to succeed properly, I end up being distracted. However, if I want to but feel reluctant to but do it anyway, it works perfectly.
    Adams Rubble: That makes sense
    Adams Rubble: I am having a slightly different experience
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: I am finding I can do breath meditation any time I want
    Adams Rubble: But when I do it in the 9 seconds I just get relaxed and sort of brain dead except for the awareness of my physcial presence
    Adams Rubble: So today I am goijg back and forth between my old routine and the new one
    Adams Rubble: One of the tapes on the dharmatalks.org site was very helpful
    Sky Szimmer: i don’t quite understand what you mean about the feeling reluctant but do anyway part Fael
    Fael Illyar: It’s hard to explain …
    Sky Szimmer: pls try
    Adams Rubble: Do you feel like is something you SHOULD do?
    Fael Illyar: that’s in the first case, the reason why I forced it
    Fael Illyar: doesn’t work
    Sky Szimmer: yes. forced meditation doesn’t work but sometimes, resistance is normal and maybe we have to force the issue a bit at first
    Sky Szimmer: to break through the resistance
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Fael Illyar: I did that this morning, then 2 and half hours later, having felt a bit unhappy not managing it properly, I ended up wanting to do it and tryed again and managed it very well
    Fael Illyar: I was reluctant to do it, but still wanted to
    Fael Illyar: conflicting wants I guess
    Sky Szimmer: that could easily happen, i think
    Sky Szimmer: our mind gamees
    Adams Rubble: I would think that probably natural and you are learning about yourself and meditation
    Adams Rubble: Sky, I am not sure I met you before today
    Sky Szimmer: i have met you before Adams
    Adams Rubble: Would you tell us about yhow you meditate?
    Sky Szimmer: but we haven’t chatted in depth
    Sky Szimmer: i don’t do much sitting meditation anymore.
    Sky Szimmer: but if i sit, i meditate
    Adams Rubble: I am so mixed up with people right now, please excuse me…all the names are running together yet

    With as many people as do regularly attend these meetings, it is quite confusing at first to tell everyone apart.

    Sky Szimmer: not at all. Adams. I keep changing shape and form right now as I experiment
    Sky Szimmer: besides there are so many of us
    Adams Rubble: I am a bit different today. hehe
    Sky Szimmer: i have found that it just takes a lot of practice with meditation and not to judge how our meditation is
    Fael Illyar: took me some time to remember people too … well, still does :)
    Sky Szimmer: that seems to make meditation worst
    Sky Szimmer: if i get distracted, i usually just accept that i am distracted
    Sky Szimmer: try to sit a bit longer and see if i can bring my mind back to the breath. if not,
    Sky Szimmer: i stand up and do some meditation
    Adams Rubble: ahh, the moving meditation?
    Sky Szimmer: if that doesn’t work, i just sit and get distracted, but with always the intention of bringing my mind back to the breath
    Sky Szimmer: then the sitting is just mixed with some distraction, some mindfulness
    Sky Szimmer: but that is ok
    Sky Szimmer: yes. I studied with Stim for some time now
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Sky Szimmer: I use to go every week, but now I hang out with him monthly, but recently not even that
    Sky Szimmer: he hosts a weeked meditation session every month
    Sky Szimmer: so we have some sessions of sitting, then a short session of standing, then sitting
    Sky Szimmer: the energy is different with each
    Adams Rubble: Thank you, that is very helpful
    Sky Szimmer: oh. i am gald
    Sky Szimmer: g;ad
    Sky Szimmer: glad
    Adams Rubble: :)

    Standing meditation sounds interesting so that gets some more attention.

    Fael Illyar: standing meditation… I guess I should try that too :)
    Adams Rubble: I did that inadvertantly
    Sky Szimmer: yes. you just stand there
    Adams Rubble: I was at Dakini’s meditation group here
    Sky Szimmer: sometimes people like to extend their arms out in front of them
    Adams Rubble: and the dehumidifier fileld up and started beeping
    Adams Rubble: filled
    Adams Rubble: I tried to concentrate through it but it was too distracting
    Adams Rubble: so I got up and emptied it
    Adams Rubble: trying to maintain my concentration while doing so
    Adams Rubble: not completely successful
    Adams Rubble: but better than the alternative
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Sky Szimmer: what dod you mean by maintain your concentration while doing so?
    Sky Szimmer: and not being successful?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Sky Szimmer: what did you have in mind?
    Adams Rubble: I wasn;t completely focused
    Sky Szimmer: on emptying the dehumidifier
    Adams Rubble: I had to go through the motions of the task
    Faenik loves wells!
    Sky Szimmer: or on your breath
    Adams Rubble: I wasn’t doing breath meditation yet then
    Sky Szimmer: oh.
    Sky Szimmer: sorry
    Adams Rubble: I don;t completely remember what I was focused on
    Sky Szimmer: ah.
    Adams Rubble: wouldn’t recommend it :)
    Adams Rubble: but for me it was necessity
    Fael Illyar: The first meditation I did today, I found myself getting distracted by almost anything at all.
    Sky Szimmer: well, i don’t do formal sitting meditation but I meditat

    Stargate arrives.

    Sky Szimmer: meditate
    Fael Illyar: Usually, when I meditate, if I get an itch somewhere, I manage to ignore it until it goes away.
    Sky Szimmer: hi Star
    Adams Rubble: Hello Star
    Stargate Tone: Hello all
    Adams Rubble: That’s good Fael
    Adams Rubble: Star, we are talking about meditation today
    Fael Illyar: This morning I was scratching if I got an itch before I noticed it.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Sky Szimmer: about how distraction comes into the meditation
    Fael Illyar: Oh, Hi Star :)
    Adams Rubble: I imagine itches could become part of ones consciousness
    Adams Rubble: and become something that started happening
    Sky Szimmer: yes. i can see how itching can be meditative
    Sky Szimmer: my baby son finds it so
    Sky Szimmer: : )
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Stargate Tone: …rolling back the lines
    Sky Szimmer: ? Star?
    Adams Rubble: Since I am new to meditation it is very helpful to hear other people’s experiences
    Stargate Tone: done
    Stargate Tone: yes ?
    Faenik loves wells!
    Sky Szimmer: how long have you been meditating?
    Adams Rubble: me? probably about a week
    Fael Illyar: 2 weeks, maybe
    Sky Szimmer: you seem to have a good grasp : )
    Adams Rubble: but when I discovered breath meditation
    Adams Rubble: I realized I have been doing it
    Adams Rubble: fopr years and years
    Sky Szimmer: ah. a natural
    Adams Rubble: whithout knowing what it was
    Fael Illyar: I think I’ve been doing something similar to meditation for years too.
    Adams Rubble: so it has made me very comfortable
    Adams Rubble: I could go for a long time doing that
    Fael Illyar: Although, not knowing it was close and not really able to do it on a whim.
    Sky Szimmer: well, then, you are not so “new”

    Adams mentions a site with spoken material to help with meditation.

    Adams Rubble: Last night I listened to this tape on the dharmatalk.org site
    Fael Illyar: or at will
    Adams Rubble: in which the person coached through a long process
    Sky Szimmer: what do you mean Fael by close?
    Adams Rubble: focusing first on the nose, chest and stomach
    Fael Illyar: close to meditation
    Adams Rubble: and then started slowly moving around the body
    Adams Rubble: I described it on my log this morning
    Adams Rubble: I think it would take about an hour to do the whole process
    Sky Szimmer: i have found that it is good to learn different methods of meditation
    Sky Szimmer: it becomes tools that we can lean on
    Adams Rubble: yes I want o know about the others
    Adams Rubble: sorry I interrupted Fael
    Fael Illyar: It’s hard to interrupt in a text based chat.
    Adams Rubble: I manage to do it :)
    Fael Illyar: the only way you will succeed is if what you say is more interesting
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stargate Tone: **

    Another topic I’d recalled earlier today popped into my mind again and since it seemed conversation was about to die out, I decided to try if that would get new one started.

    Fael Illyar: To return the subject to negative (?) feelings again. I’ve been easily annoyed by small children making a show in shops trying to get their way in the past.
    Faenik: could be
    Stargate Tone: well; based on what this phenomena has been even growing, cuz parents are teached to take them children to be god…
    Fael Illyar: When I was buying groceries about a week ago, there were 3 small children all making noise non stop. Initially I was annoyed with it but eventually it started changing to being amused with myself.
    Stargate Tone: no wonder half of our nation also is eating drugs for the depression
    Faenik: could be
    Sky Szimmer: yes. i see my child as a rinpoche, a recarnated being here to teach me things
    Sky Szimmer: yes. Fael. what changed
    Stargate Tone: so You could take Youself up to it…but…well:::How You think that them parents can do that
    Sky Szimmer: were you amused with yourself being annoyed or were you amused by the children
    Fael Illyar: amused with myself being annoyed.
    Stargate Tone: and most of the people are living just the normal interacitvity with this pehnomena soo
    Sky Szimmer: oh. that seems to be a good thing
    Adams Rubble: mindfulness!!!
    Fael Illyar: with no intention of letting that annoyance show
    Stargate Tone: yea
    Stargate Tone: to laugh to onesefl :)***
    Sky Szimmer: what do you mean by not having intention of letting that annoyance show?
    Fael Illyar: Well, I wasn’t about to go silence the children :P
    Sky Szimmer: you mean, you didn’t want to seeem annoyed? or you didn’t what that annoyance to be
    Stargate Tone: cuz SOME ppl the most likely has noticed also Faels responding :=
    Stargate Tone: :)*
    Stargate Tone: …dont have much imagination, but can almost see the ’show’ there’s been
    Sky Szimmer: you can always ask them to quiet down some
    Stargate Tone: well…in Finland…oh no
    Stargate Tone: You can get police to Your neck for such
    Stargate Tone: we have had must even chnage our naturall language for new ‘orders’

    Then we get some criticism of how things are in Finland.

    Sky Szimmer: well. I got to go. much to do. nice chatting with you all
    Stargate Tone: how to behaved in publick :)***
    Stargate Tone: oh …sad…
    Fael Illyar: Yes, try to tell random mother that their child is being too noisy and they’ll be mightily annoyed.
    Adams Rubble: Good to see you Sky. Bye :)
    Stargate Tone: Have Good Time where ever Your going :)
    Fael Illyar: Ok, See you Sky :)
    Sky Szimmer: thanks : )
    Adams Rubble: Well the situation can be a difficult one Fael
    Faenik: why not?
    Adams Rubble: Sky was making an interesting disctinction
    Stargate Tone: dont indeed mean to say, that there wouldn’t be something to do….but if in the publick situation; donno about ttat
    Fael Illyar: Well, I ended up not paying any attention after a while of being amused at myself.
    Stargate Tone: yea
    Adams Rubble: It is good there was a positive outcome :)

    I forgot to emphasize that I told this story because I wanted to add another thing to the list of positive changes PaB (and meditation) has achieved.

    Fael Illyar: interesting distinction?
    Adams Rubble: Yes
    Stargate Tone: well…wanna hear what I’ve been doing for such famiies in which the children or a child as taken as god ?
    Adams Rubble: let me look back….
    Fael Illyar: Sure, lets hear it :)
    Adams Rubble: yes, she was leading you to your motive
    Stargate Tone: depended of the persons; to some mother’s I’ve said; pls dont be a slave
    Adams Rubble: whetehr you were concerned about looking annoyed…
    Adams Rubble: or being annoyed
    Adams Rubble: the answer can be helpful to you
    Adams Rubble: for the next time
    Adams Rubble: or similar situation
    Adams Rubble: mindfulness!!!
    Fael Illyar: Yes, mindfulness does come into pretty much every situation :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stargate Tone: yes; and that’s more than good to get up from such onself; that’s one way to create some ‘cut’ to the ‘cirele’ of these phenomena normally created negative circrles
    Stargate Tone: yet…as there’s so much such more, than people like you Fael
    Stargate Tone: I’ve decided already long time ago to ‘interrupt’ the source…
    Stargate Tone: that parents would remember the needed limits to children too
    Adams Rubble: I wonder if it would be helpful if Stargate said that in Finish. I won’t mind
    Fael Illyar: Well, one of the reasons I didn’t want to do anything was that the children were making that much noise pretty much because they weren’t getting what they wanted.
    Stargate Tone: I also have noticed, that each time there’s a possibility to tell to the child who beats, that such kind of behavier is foolish
    Stargate Tone: and thtat’s also alwasy been succesfull…as no child either want to ‘confess’ to be a fool :)***
    Adams Rubble: I think the crux of the situation is
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Adams Rubble: that the children’s behavior is the parent’s responsibilty
    Adams Rubble: for the most part
    Adams Rubble: and that the example is more
    Adams Rubble: that it is one in which we do not have complete control
    Stargate Tone: and indeed; in case You would’ve done something there , you the most likely would’ve been ’stoned’ by other peple
    Adams Rubble: except for our own reaction
    Adams Rubble: and so we focus on our response
    Stargate Tone: yea
    Stargate Tone: often thought, that our kind of ppl are even sended to ‘meet’ for example this kind of negative shows
    Stargate Tone: to be that ’somebody’ who at least makes that ‘cut’ on the spiritual level
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I’ve been thinking along the lines of “You can’t change the world, but you can change yourself” for a few years now.
    Adams Rubble: which is why I am ere :)
    Faenik loves wells!
    Adams Rubble: here

    Pema comes back …

    Fael Illyar: Welcome back Pema :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi Pema :)
    Stargate Tone: well; nobody can change the world; but all do have possibility to help people to make the change together
    Stargate Tone: Hello Pema
    Adams Rubble: We have been talking about meditation for the first part
    Pema Pera: Hi Adams, Fael, Stargate!
    Stargate Tone: meaning by that change, that people could learn to be mroe and more naturall/truthfull
    Adams Rubble: then we began talking about our reaction to a situation like disruptive children
    Stargate Tone: and create less and less ‘things’ based on fears
    Stargate Tone: like for examplte thinging these situations
    Stargate Tone: as they are created only based on fears
    Stargate Tone: cuz the parents are nowadays so afraid of ‘millions’ of things to happen bad
    Fael Illyar: yes, the culture of fear
    Stargate Tone: in case they dont let there children to BE the ‘god’
    Pema Pera: would love to hear more about that but . . . while I’ve just returned home now, from the train station in Kyoto, in one minute I have to attend an astronomy meeting
    Pema Pera: hard to weave SL and RL in my life . . . . .
    Pema Pera: so sorry to say:
    Adams Rubble: yes :)
    Pema Pera: hello and goodbye for now !
    Adams Rubble: bye again pema :)
    Fael Illyar: Bye Pema :)
    Stargate Tone: bye
    Pema Pera: next time I hope to have more leisure!
    Pema Pera: see you all soon!
    Stargate Tone: we’ll meet again :)***

    … and leaves right away for another meeting.

    Adams Rubble: poof!
    Stargate Tone: **
    Adams Rubble: I think I have to get back to RL too
    Stargate Tone: well; thankfully the spirit can be in many places at the same ‘time’
    Adams Rubble: The hour has passed quickly
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it has. See you later Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: You too Fael
    Adams Rubble: bye Star
    Stargate Tone: was nice to see You too again; I also was late…
    Stargate Tone: You’de like to stay still ?
    Fael Illyar: If there’s still something to talk about. :)
    Stargate Tone: I have few moments left in case You wanna chat a while more
    Stargate Tone: well
    Stargate Tone: not so huge curious; just willing to know :)****
    Stargate Tone: but…take that You said Ur from Finland too ?
    Stargate Tone: ok

    The conversation didn’t actually end here but the rest is in Finnish.

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