2008.06.10 07:00 - Hidden Messages and Judgement Thereof

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    That morning, Riddle was the guardian for the session. Later he sent me the following log. The title is Riddle’s, the comments are mine, apart from the following two paragraphs right below, which he provided:

    Often, I (riddle) am tempted to edit these chatlogs.
    To fix the typos that the author immedialety corrects on the next line.
    It seems though that those mis-typed letters, words and phrases give alternate meanings and messages in their own right.
    Do we really mean what we mis-type? :-)

    Often, I am tempted to move lines around to put the overlapping and intertwined threads into nice neat straight forward dialogs.
    That should not be done, so that the reader can experience this as it unfolded.

    (comment by me, Pema: my preference is to correct typos if/when I have time and when they are completely straightforward and don’t feature in the discussion later on, as they sometimes do; as for order of sentences, I agree in general with Riddle’s judgment, but there are some occasions where the meaning gets improved significantly by a simple transposition of lines, in which case I just do that — after all, the blog reader does not have the advantage of the temporal dimension, seeing which lines appear at almost the same time, and which are well separated)

    Riddle had told me that the evening meeting was spent outside the tea house. I presume that Adams and Fael arrived soon after Riddle had come to the tea house.

    Fael Illyar: Hello Adams, Riddle :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi everybody
    Adams Rubble: Fael, you are magnificant
    Riddle Sideways: shall we go in or stay out
    Fael Illyar: Thank you Adams :)
    Fael Illyar: I don’t mind either way
    Adams Rubble: Neither do I
    Riddle Sideways: yes, farl everyday a new beautilful outfit
    Fael Illyar: I’m running out of them soon. Although, it might still take a while until everyone has seen them all :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine
    Adams Rubble: Hello Maxine
    Fael Illyar: We’re outside
    Maxine Walden: hi, Fael and Adams, OK, I will come outside
    Riddle Sideways: hi Maxine

    Maxine had, as usual, teleported herself straight into the tea house. She joined the group outside, and at that time Sky arrived as well.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Sky
    Riddle Sideways: it is such a nice day here
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sky
    Fael Illyar: It usually is :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi sky
    Adams Rubble: The weather always takes a middle path here
    Faenik: could be
    Sky Szimmer: hellow there
    Maxine Walden: h, all
    Maxine Walden: hi, all
    Riddle Sideways: hi
    Riddle Sideways: ackkk, volume was too loud on my 15 min gong
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes it is a little ping
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes it is a huge GONG
    Riddle Sideways: maybe there is a message there
    Fael Illyar: I’ve set mine to gong from my monitor’s speakers and integrated soundcard that I don’t use for anything else.
    Maxine Walden: uncertainty?
    Fael Illyar: so the sound level is always the same
    Riddle Sideways: I use my for many other things too, so volume changes a lot
    Riddle Sideways: I like reading hidden messages into it
    Fael Illyar: I’ve got an add-on soundcard into which I’ve connected my main speakers.

    The conversation turned to messages and wishes.

    Sky Szimmer: me too. i like to read hidden messages into everything
    Sky Szimmer: sometimes it works very well
    Sky Szimmer: what about for you Riddle
    Sky Szimmer: where else do you look for hidden messages
    Sky Szimmer: what have you found
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes the messages work and sometimes they take me the wrong directions
    Maxine Walden: I find that a problem sometimes, reading hidden messages, in that they usually are from my wishes and fears and thus perpetuate what is going on inside of me
    Adams Rubble: yes, like oracles
    Sky Szimmer: certainly that is true.
    Sky Szimmer: but i guess i am lazy. i just go with it.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Sky Szimmer: i figure it is better than nothnig
    Sky Szimmer: and it works well for me.
    Maxine Walden: ah, get to know more about yourself perhaps
    Adams Rubble: Sometimes it can be profound
    Riddle Sideways: yes, I supposedly inanimate objects are not out to get me
    Fael Illyar: I mostly use my wishes as a guideline that tells me which chances to grab.
    Sky Szimmer: i find that it is something like faith for me. it may be silly
    Riddle Sideways: but I read that sometimes
    Fael Illyar: and which to let go
    Riddle Sideways: I don’t think it is silly
    Adams Rubble: that is the tricky part - which to let go
    Sky Szimmer: i figure if all are part of the play then all messages are valid
    Sky Szimmer: i am noticing more synchronicity in the messages
    Sky Szimmer: really weird stuff, like everytime i look at a clock, it is many times all the same numbers
    Sky Szimmer: then this is without conscious effort. when I thought, oh this is cool and wanted more, it stopped
    Fael Illyar: Myself I’ve often noticed coming across articles and other things too that often relate directly to things I’ve been pondering about. Even though I wasn’t looking for them.
    Fael Illyar: Or even mentioned about them to anyone
    Sky Szimmer: othertimes, it is running into some stranger over and over again within a short period of time
    Sky Szimmer: yes. i know what you mean fael. makes me leary of talking about it too, not wanting it to stop
    Riddle Sideways: yes, seems if I don’t notice the little hints that they get louder and more repeatative
    Faenik: ah :)
    Sky Szimmer: that is great Riddle. can’t miss it then
    Sky Szimmer: keeps at ya until it bonks you on your head
    Sky Szimmer: sometimes that is required

    Caledonia joined the group.

    Maxine Walden: hi, Cal
    Riddle Sideways: yes, and most times after the big bonk… the messagae can stop coming at you
    Sky Szimmer: shout out to cal
    Caledonia Heron: morning :)
    Fael Illyar: Makes me sometimes wonder if I’m somehow affecting people, sometimes all around the world, to send that sort of things to me.
    Riddle Sideways: hi cal
    Fael Illyar: Hello Cal
    Adams Rubble: Hello Cal
    Sky Szimmer: of course Fael
    Caledonia Heron: :) hey Sky
    Sky Szimmer: I think so. whatever energy we send, it effects everyone i think
    Sky Szimmer: that is why i trust it more and more.
    Adams Rubble: It is why we must be careful what we do, is n’t it
    Sky Szimmer: the funny thing is, the more I go with it, the more accurate it becomes
    Fael Illyar: I’m noticing the same
    Sky Szimmer: accurate isn’t the right word
    Caledonia Heron: true
    Sky Szimmer: we are talking about reading into hidden messages
    Riddle Sideways: but it is word that we all get
    Caledonia Heron: ah ok, thanks
    Fael Illyar: Almost like if I develop some problem I want to solve, soon many people around the world are producing answers.
    Sky Szimmer: and synchonicity cal.
    Caledonia Heron: yes, there is a good deal of that Sky
    Caledonia Heron: a shared consciousness, an intention
    Fael Illyar: And I don’t even need to tell anyone about it, strangely.
    Fael Illyar: Or alternatively, I’m telling about it in a code that all of us understand only subconsciously
    Riddle Sideways: there are so many words to explain it or explain it away, but it mostly just happens
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Caledonia Heron: :) Riddle - accurate for many things
    Riddle Sideways: if we drive a VW we see VWs on the hiway
    Caledonia Heron: exactly - the focus
    Sky Szimmer: Maxine, you mentioned “: I find that a problem sometimes, reading hidden messages, in that they usually are from my wishes and fears and thus perpetuate what is going on inside of me” why do you think that is a problem?
    Adams Rubble: The VW analogy is good

    It was interesting to see the different points of views, and the tug between wanting to be both critical and open.

    Fael Illyar: in the case of fears, I can see the problem.
    Sky Szimmer: wishes and fears are different sides of the same coin, no?
    Fael Illyar: same coin analogy feels wrong in this case for some reason
    Maxine Walden: As long as I know that the messages are likely from my inner stuff it is not a problem, I was thinking that if I think that they are message from the outside, then I may be distracted from that aspect of reality…a matter of perception I guess
    Adams Rubble: Yes, I am pondering that too
    Sky Szimmer: ah ..
    Sky Szimmer: but is there an inside and an outside?
    Adams Rubble: the coin analogy that is
    Caledonia Heron: when it rains :)
    Sky Szimmer: : )
    Fael Illyar: About that VW and highways and seeing VWs, on highways you see all cars close to you physically.
    Fael Illyar: worldwide communication is different I think
    Fael Illyar: although it might amplify the effect somehow
    Sky Szimmer: how so? Fael
    Maxine Walden: well, at this point I do think that there are inner aspects of experience, more specific to me, from my past and my perceptions and then there are others experiences which may be very different from mine..so inner and outer realities are concepts that are useful for me
    Adams Rubble: How you dres or look afects the way people react to you
    Fael Illyar: There is much more information than you can realistically absorp generated worldwide each day. When you’re driving a car, you see all that you theoretically could.
    Sky Szimmer: i think i may have become really off with all this reality stuff but
    Faenik: could be
    Sky Szimmer: i find that others outside are all aspects of me and their perception when I come to know about it,
    Sky Szimmer: is information that i need to know
    Sky Szimmer: or should know
    Sky Szimmer: for whatever reason
    Fael Illyar: I think I agree
    Sky Szimmer: certainly Fael
    Sky Szimmer: there is so much information ouut there that we can’t possilbly know everything
    Sky Szimmer: but i think, again this maybe weird thinking on my part,that when you need to know sommething, that info comes
    Sky Szimmer: and who knows in what form
    Maxine Walden: I currently think that the ‘you’ I see is only from my perception of you, that I have a lens or filter from my own experience and that is so for each of us;
    Riddle Sideways: so of all the info that we filter and that which we give attention, some of it gives you thinking that there are hidden messages here
    Caledonia Heron: yeah Sky, stuff does show up in unknown or strange ways sometimes
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I think that has been happening to me too. Although, not always, perhaps.
    Riddle Sideways: yes, maxine
    Fael Illyar: Of course, we understand each other mainly through comparing with ourselves.
    Caledonia Heron: or through our experiences
    Adams Rubble: Which gets us to close to what we are

    Caledonia interjected an cosmic element.

    Caledonia Heron: stardust
    Caledonia Heron: we are made of stardust
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: yes, that is so interesting, Cal
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Maxine Walden: recycled stardust
    Caledonia Heron: it’s freakin cosmic
    Sky Szimmer: you Nasa people!
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Sky Szimmer: :)
    Fael Illyar: Oh yes, stardust, took me a while to get it :)
    Fael Illyar: too simple :)
    Riddle Sideways: as long as you don’t say we are made of quarks and charm
    Caledonia Heron: lucky charms
    Sky Szimmer: i find that when my judgement gets in the way of perceiving others, i am putting on a barrier between me and others
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: the judgement is about you not about what is judged it would appear to me
    Sky Szimmer: i like lucky charms
    Sky Szimmer: star dust and charms.
    Caledonia Heron: about you and where you’re coming from
    Riddle Sideways: at that moment
    Caledonia Heron: yes Riddle
    Maxine Walden: I agree that judgement is primarily about the one judging,
    Sky Szimmer: yes Cal. but then that judgement blocks the message
    Sky Szimmer: I find
    Caledonia Heron: that just is the message at that moment
    Fael Illyar: Yes, if you judge, you’ll stop after seeing the surface.
    Faenik: ah :)
    Caledonia Heron: maybe not a particularly good message but the messeage of the moment none the less
    Maxine Walden: judging does not get beyond the surface
    Sky Szimmer: that is a good point Cal. that maybe that is the message of the moment, including the judgement
    Caledonia Heron: ah, Maxine, but is is below the surface I think
    Caledonia Heron: the judging comes from a compilation of data
    Riddle Sideways: what we choose to do with the messages is the most important
    Caledonia Heron: whether accurate or not
    Riddle Sideways: whether we judge or igore
    Caledonia Heron: YES Riddle
    Caledonia Heron: choice
    Maxine Walden: the judging comes from below the surface, I agree, but what is judged keeps us at the surface of things, I believe…

    Cal came up with another striking image.

    Caledonia Heron: judging is like a condom for authentic experience
    Sky Szimmer: is it possible to put that judging on hold Maxine from you point of view
    Caledonia Heron: a barrier pehaps
    Caledonia Heron: *perhpas
    Sky Szimmer: what a description Cal : )
    Maxine Walden: oh, I think it is possible to put the judge on hold, but we must be aware of the tendency at times to judge
    Riddle Sideways: no, I think (at that moment) the judging and the seeing the judging is important
    Caledonia Heron: *perhaps (typing very slowly)
    Maxine Walden: and then step back and ‘not go there’
    Sky Szimmer: i am not sure what you mean by being aware of teh tendency at times to judge Maxine
    Maxine Walden: yes, Cal, you may be saying that the judging part hates the new experience
    Maxine Walden: the potential of new experience
    Caledonia Heron: I would think you have to know when to whip judgement out….do I hold up the stop and go….no, in my judgment I think not
    Caledonia Heron: nope Sky - you can judge on the fly to I’d say
    Caledonia Heron: *too
    Caledonia Heron: :)

    The discussion then focused on various kinds of judging.

    Adams Rubble: Judging is is a sign that we are holding too hard on our ego
    Maxine Walden: we may disagree there, Cal, or have different definitions for judgment right now
    Fael Illyar: I tend to try to hold back from any judgement until I feel I understand whatever it is I’m looking at
    Caledonia Heron: there’s different kinds of judging is all
    Maxine Walden: certainly agree re different kinds of judging
    Caledonia Heron: there’s survival judging and there’s where do I stand vis a vis you judging for instance
    Maxine Walden: yes, different parts of the mind operating in those examples, I would think,
    Caledonia Heron: yep for sure Maxine
    Maxine Walden: one, survival, not reflective, for example, etc
    Riddle Sideways: at another time I might agree with you, but today I am thinking the judging (if it happens and how strong) is the important reaction to the messages
    Fael Illyar: The way I mean “to judge” in this case is making final decisions I will then take as truths.
    Fael Illyar: Oh wait, if I define it that way, I don’t judge.
    Caledonia Heron: ok, understood - you guys are going for the how do I feel about that judging
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Riddle Sideways: we are? :)
    Caledonia Heron: just a judgement call :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: playing with judgements, with the judges
    Caledonia Heron: but yer honor….
    Maxine Walden: hey, guys, I gotta go very soon…hope no judgements about that…
    Riddle Sideways: and those things that are not judged til later
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Maxine Walden: great starry sky, did not see it coming
    Riddle Sideways: well….. Maxine
    Maxine Walden: see you all later, great conversation
    Adams Rubble: Bye
    Caledonia Heron: bye Maxine
    Riddle Sideways: thanks Maxine
    Maxine Walden: bye all
    Sky Szimmer: bye Maxine nice seeing you again

    Maxine took off.

    Sky Szimmer: well. nice starry sky with stardusts and charms in the air
    Riddle Sideways: see, she got me lost off into watching the stars
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Sky Szimmer: magical!
    Caledonia Heron: the skies are indeed charmed
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes I go nights and nights without seeing the stars
    Sky Szimmer: yes? too much in front of the computer eh? : )
    Riddle Sideways: yesterday I walked along the ocean and said why don’t I do this more often
    Fael Illyar got stuck trying to define judging the way she used it just now.
    Caledonia Heron: how can that be Riddle?
    Sky Szimmer: ? Fael
    Caledonia Heron: the ocean has a wonderfully primal sound
    Fael Illyar: Well, I noticed “to judge” has several meaning so I started thinking about how to define the meaning I meant while talking
    Riddle Sideways: yes, and I get into everyday life and forget to go walk by the ocean
    Riddle Sideways: or walk in the woods
    Riddle Sideways: or… or…
    Caledonia Heron: if you live near enough to take a walk - that sounds like a great idea :)
    Sky Szimmer: are there many definitions of judge, I wonder?
    Riddle Sideways: seems I heard many today
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: judge a contest, officer of the court, judgement call, judged to be this or that, ……
    Sky Szimmer: I think anytime we put on our own lenses and looking at something, there is judgement. just seeing as is, is no judgement. but the question is
    Faenik: why not?
    Sky Szimmer: can we really see as is, which i guess is why we are all here
    Fael Illyar: I guess I’d define judgement, the way I meant it as the act of creating an excuse with which you convince yourself to stop thinking about something.
    Riddle Sideways: when I write down this 9 second moment, I usually don’t judge it

    The notion “what’s so” became a new focus point.

    Caledonia Heron: to see “what’s so” and not add your personal story - that is a form of seeing
    Riddle Sideways: when I see an entire page of notes, I will read back though and start judging
    Caledonia Heron: “what’s so” is that the universe doesn’t care what you think it just is
    Adams Rubble: But people do
    Fael Illyar: Yes, quite so :)
    Caledonia Heron: people care about what “they” think is what’s so
    Faenik loves wells!
    Sky Szimmer: what so is just is
    Adams Rubble: There is a difference between judging our experience and others and I think that got blurred a little in the discussion’
    Adams Rubble: In my judgement
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Sky Szimmer: I don’t know if one can judge “what’s so”
    Caledonia Heron: I used to think it was a hard truth that the universe is indifferent but it’s really very liberating
    Riddle Sideways: we judge our reaction to “what’s so” right now
    Sky Szimmer: what do you mean by liberating?
    Riddle Sideways: or “what’s so” in our face now
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol, “what’s so” is very in your face :)
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Caledonia Heron: liberating in freedom to move, freedom to be
    Sky Szimmer: i guess i didn’t get what you were saying earlier about the universe being indifferent.
    Sky Szimmer: the universe is indifferent and because of such, it is liberating?
    Sky Szimmer: sorry. being thick.
    Caledonia Heron: not thick, it’s confusing :)
    Fael Illyar: Hello showshow
    Sky Szimmer: what is your reaction to what so and what is the judgement Riddle?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Showshow
    showshow Camel: hi all
    Riddle Sideways: hi showshow

    Showshow joined the group.

    Sky Szimmer: Just wondering?
    Caledonia Heron: the stars are the stars, the laws of physics do their thing, it all keeps cranking along regardless of what you or I think, judge, do, regret, hope for…..
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Sky Szimmer: yes. cal!
    Caledonia Heron: man, that’s a wide open space right there
    Sky Szimmer: good to look up at the stars!
    Caledonia Heron: pretty liberating :)
    Riddle Sideways: what is… IS and they only thing we can change is our attitude toward it
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, you gonna roll with it or do petty, stupid stuff? choice
    Riddle Sideways: at some point we might substitute the word Being into these sentences
    Caledonia Heron: and if we’re going to roll with it, at what level of play “being” do we want to engage?
    Sky Szimmer: what do you mean Cal?
    Caledonia Heron: hopefully at the level of love, honor, honesty, beauty….
    Sky Szimmer: ah.
    Riddle Sideways: thank you
    Riddle Sideways: however, our level changes all the time
    Riddle Sideways: mostly uncontroled
    Sky Szimmer: unless you are attentive
    Caledonia Heron: sure so to be conscious enough to always rise to a certain threshold is what y’all might call being mindful
    Sky Szimmer: : )
    Riddle Sideways: might could
    Caledonia Heron: and practicing mindfullness is practicing being at or above that threshold more times than not ….maybe
    Caledonia Heron: just throwing it out there :)
    Sky Szimmer: I find that when there is an emotional rise to something, some judgement is being made
    Sky Szimmer: when the emotion is good or bad
    Faenik: could be
    Sky Szimmer: there is a judgment call when the personal interjected
    Sky Szimmer: with the experience
    Sky Szimmer: although there can be just spontaneous happiness
    Sky Szimmer: and love. Maybe that is aside.

    From judgment to sadness.

    Adams Rubble: and pain? saddness?
    Sky Szimmer: yes.
    Caledonia Heron: sure - I can understand that
    Sky Szimmer: i guess i am thinking more of anger, irritation, lust
    Adams Rubble: Group emotions may be more judgemental
    Fael Illyar: I think sadness is the result of losing something you thought was permanent on some level.
    Sky Szimmer: yes. Fael
    Sky Szimmer: yes Adams
    Caledonia Heron: sadness and the depth of it is associated with unfullfilled expectations imo
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, that’s more general way to put it
    Riddle Sideways: so many times the word “judgement” has been really “reaction”
    Sky Szimmer: i guess an emotion is just an emotion, but all the minding that comes after the emotion is what needs to be watched
    Riddle Sideways: our “reaction” to stimulas
    Caledonia Heron: you can have an emotion and not “be” the emotion :)
    Sky Szimmer: : )
    Sky Szimmer: that is the tricky part
    Caledonia Heron: it’s not all that complicated - not all that hard…kind of a perspective :)
    Sky Szimmer: yes! but i get pissed!!!!!
    Caledonia Heron: LOL
    Caledonia Heron: ok, I get that!
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Sky Szimmer: Just kidding…
    Caledonia Heron: as long as you’re 100% pissed :)
    Caledonia Heron: I used to get pissed now more I noticed I’m pissed and choose whether to let loose or not - most of the time it’s not worth it :)
    Sky Szimmer: that is really powerful…. to notice one’s choice at all times
    Caledonia Heron: it reminds me of a quote - I’ll bastardize it ….I’ve never been unintentional rude to anyone…..
    Caledonia Heron: that cracks me up
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Caledonia Heron: gotta go make the doughnuts….bye y’all, thank you :)
    Sky Szimmer: ciao.
    Adams Rubble: Bye Cal
    Riddle Sideways: thank you, Cal

    Cal left, and so did Sky and Adams.

    Sky Szimmer: nice chatting with you all on this starry night. see you all later.
    Fael Illyar: Uh, people are leaving faster than I can tell them bye :P
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you sky
    Adams Rubble: Bye all
    Riddle Sideways: yes, sky thank you
    Adams Rubble: Yes thank you
    Fael Illyar: bye Adams
    Riddle Sideways: gosh, it has been an hour plus
    Adams Rubble: I have a question for somebody
    Adams Rubble: I have lost the web address of the pal as being site
    Adams Rubble: play
    Fael Illyar: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
    Riddle Sideways: btw - I am liking Faenik more and more
    Adams Rubble: Who is Faenik?
    Fael Illyar: you are?
    Adams Rubble: and thanks Fael
    Faenik is right here.
    Adams Rubble: I am?
    Fael Illyar: that was for Riddle :)

    The open secret of Faenik’s existence was revealed once more.

    Fael Illyar: Faenik is on my shoulder :)
    Adams Rubble: oh :0
    Adams Rubble: Oh I see
    Riddle Sideways: Faenik needs a bit bigger phrase book, but yes I am liking more and more
    Fael Illyar: I guess I should think of new lines to add there sometime
    Adams Rubble: Sometimes he is inciteful
    Adams Rubble: no no not that word
    Adams Rubble: has incites
    Riddle Sideways: LOL
    Fael Illyar: I’m not sure I understand :)
    Adams Rubble: sometimes he says the right thing
    Fael Illyar: Quite often, actually
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes our typos are inciteful too
    Adams Rubble: a wise interjection
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble: Well, bye everyone and thanks
    Fael Illyar: Bye Adams :)
    Riddle Sideways: bye Adams
    Faenik loves wells!
    Fael Illyar: Well, I suppose I’ll leave too. Other things starting to require my attention already :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Riddle :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, me too

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