2008.06.14 07:00 - Logo Logistics

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    That morning, Caledonia was the main guardian. She later sent me the chat log, and she also provided the comments.

    Morning shines upon the teahouse:

    Stargate Tone: hi
    Fael Illyar: Hello
    Caledonia Heron: morning :)
    Stargate Tone: afternoon :)***
    Caledonia Heron: thank you for trading with me Fael :)
    Fael Illyar: no problem
    Faenik: why not?
    Stargate Tone: …from Finland
    Caledonia Heron: you too Faenik :)
    Caledonia Heron: hi Stargate :)
    Faenik purrs contently.
    Caledonia Heron: shall we sit outside?
    Stargate Tone: U too coming to the meeting ?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, we are the meeting :)
    Caledonia Heron: let’s sit outdoors
    Stargate Tone: …met ppl only in the house…
    Fael Illyar: Hello Pema
    Stargate Tone: while the meeting
    Caledonia Heron: hey Pema :)
    Stargate Tone: hi Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi there!
    Pema Pera: Hi Cal, Fael, *
    Fael Illyar: The meeting is sometimes held outside :)
    Caledonia Heron: shall we meet in or out - I suggest outdoors
    Fael Illyar: I don’t mind either way
    Pema Pera: Does your dove speak too, Fael?
    Pema Pera: out is fine, Cal!
    Fael Illyar: no, dove doesn’t speak :)
    Caledonia Heron: more of a circle :)
    Pema Pera: yeah, this circle forming here is a bit difficult

    The thought of moving the meetings to a new home:

    Pema Pera: but Dakini just — hi Adams!
    Pema Pera: just improved her new place
    Caledonia Heron: hi Adams :)
    Pema Pera: I just saw it
    Adams Rubble: Hi
    Stargate Tone: Hi Adams
    Pema Pera: problem is people expect us here
    Pema Pera: so we can’t go over there yet
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams
    Adams Rubble: Hi all
    Pema Pera: unless we make a big sign :)
    Adams Rubble sighs
    Stargate Tone: oh…I need to go again…
    Fael Illyar: big sign with landmark giver :)
    Stargate Tone: stargate
    Caledonia Heron daydreams the sign says “Where We Be” and you click for info
    Fael Illyar: Bye *
    Adams Rubble sighs big
    Stargate Tone: Have Good Time
    Caledonia Heron: bye :)
    Pema Pera: bye *
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Stargate Tone: stargate

    Adams exhales:

    Caledonia Heron: a sigh Adams?
    Caledonia Heron: ok?
    Pema Pera: yeah something like that kind of sign, Cal
    Pema Pera: and from sign to sigh?
    Pema Pera: Adams?
    Caledonia Heron: she fell into her sigh :)
    Adams Rubble: yes (ouch)
    Moon Fargis: hello everyone
    Caledonia Heron: hey Moon
    Adams Rubble: hi
    Pema Pera: hi Moon!
    Fael Illyar: Hi Moon

    Moon has given us an idea for a logo:

    Pema Pera: Fun logo, Moon, very interesting!
    Pema Pera: I just saw it before coming in-world
    Pema Pera: How about nine flowers instead of ten?
    Moon Fargis: well just a quick first try
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Caledonia Heron: yes, the odds are favoured :)
    Pema Pera: asymmetry is a big thing in Japan
    Pema Pera: exactly
    Pema Pera: in ikebana, flower arangement, never even numbers

    The delicacy of well meant observations and the grace of accepting them:

    Fael Illyar: I hope my message wasn’t overly critical.
    Moon Fargis: ah then i counted wrong hehe
    Pema Pera: your points were all well taken, Fael
    Moon Fargis: my eyes stopped bleeding fael its ok :)
    Caledonia Heron: LOL
    Caledonia Heron: glad you didn’t take it too personally Moon :)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

    More logo-ing:

    Pema Pera: but given that Being cannot be expressed in words or signs, an approximation is perhaps better if it is deliberately focusing on tools and such
    Moon Fargis: i asked for opinions thats why i putted it up
    Caledonia Heron: I threw a few in the pot - I like it Moon and I like the initiative too :)
    Moon Fargis: storm was the first one who came on the idea putting the bell as symbol
    Moon Fargis: thats why i made this one because i liked the idea
    Faenik: could be
    Fael Illyar: I guess the bell can stay, I’d just prefer it blurred I guess.
    Fael Illyar: and with some noise
    Fael Illyar: over the blur
    Moon Fargis: aha?
    Pema Pera: yes, most of all I am delighted that you kicked off by producing a logo at all — same idea as Adams producing the first ever detailed PaB daily log!
    Pema Pera: there are many options
    Pema Pera: like Fael’s, like Moon’s, others
    Pema Pera: I agree with Cal that the basic idea really has potential
    Pema Pera: from a logical point of view, I totally agree with Fael, that anything specific cannot be Being . . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . so I can see the argument for a blur . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . but in practice, people won’t “get it”, the reason for a blur
    Pema Pera: so that may make the misunderstanding worse
    Pema Pera: so I would tend to prefer the more crisp design of Moon
    Pema Pera: if we make it nine flowers
    Moon Fargis: 9 flowers. and maybe sakura like?
    Pema Pera: then bell and flowers together suggest the 9-sec idea
    Pema Pera: Being cannot be depicted, but “9 secs” can

    More logo – about the blurring:

    Pema Pera: Adams, did you see the logo?
    Adams Rubble: No, I have no idea of what anyone’s talking about
    Pema Pera: can you rezz it here, Moon?
    Caledonia Heron: Moon posted an idea for a og on the website Adams
    Pema Pera: So that we can all talk about it?
    Fael Illyar: maybe something blurred and faint behind the bell being obscured by it?
    Caledonia Heron: lol, for an og?
    Caledonia Heron: yikes, for a logo
    Pema Pera: well, Being is not blurry . . . .
    Adams Rubble takes a look
    Fael Illyar: yes, but our understanding of it is :)
    Pema Pera: an og, Cal?
    Moon Fargis: fael: well in design laws its cales logo+blur = death
    Moon Fargis: thats how they told us :)
    Caledonia Heron: sorry, bad typist early in the day
    Caledonia Heron: logo
    Caledonia Heron: my special shorthand (brain no reach finger)
    Fael Illyar: I was thinking of something so blurred it looks more like smooth shade :P
    Pema Pera: perhaps our understanding is already clear, but somehow we don’t “see” it yet . . . it is a very deep point, why and how we don’t “get” Being . . . blurry may be too simple . . . .
    Adams Rubble is not finding the logo
    Pema Pera: more like looking for your glasses everywhere without realizeing you are wearing them
    Pema Pera: that’s not blurry
    Pema Pera: it is overlooking
    Pema Pera: seeing but not seeing
    Fael Illyar: yes, I guess that’s one way to do it but quite hard to express in an image :)
    Moon Fargis: ok what i will do now is, remove one flower
    Pema Pera: exactly, Fael!
    Pema Pera: and please, a B for Being
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: big difference
    Moon Fargis: and maybe change the flowers to sakura like colour?
    Caledonia Heron: yes Moon, one less - I like the 9 sec parallel plus it matches eastern art form,
    Moon Fargis: oh
    Pema Pera: hmmm, I like the black and white too
    Caledonia Heron: yes, a capital B
    Adams Rubble: I am having trouble seeing too. Please tell me how to get to it
    Faenik: ah :)
    Adams Rubble: I think I forgot my glasses
    Moon Fargis: its on the ground adams
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: sundial!
    Pema Pera: You can make a PaB sun dial
    Moon Fargis: sun diual ?
    Moon Fargis: whats that ?
    Pema Pera: every fifteen minutes a ray of hope
    Caledonia Heron: sun dual
    Fael Illyar: This logo has the good side that you can make a working 3d impression of it though
    Pema Pera: eine Sonne Uhr
    Adams Rubble: I like it
    Pema Pera: wie sagt man das in Deutsch
    Fael Illyar: the bell in the center with flowers growing from the circle on the groun
    Moon Fargis: sonenuhr achsoo ja
    Pema Pera: die Sonne leuchtet
    Moon Fargis: +n
    Caledonia Heron: it could spin and the words could spin in counter fashion within it
    Adams Rubble: I liebe es
    Pema Pera: ja Sonnenuhr
    Adams Rubble: Ich libe es
    Pema Pera: almost, Adams!
    Adams Rubble: oh well
    Pema Pera: even your typing is like that of Moons!
    Pema Pera: only a few typos per sentence :)
    Adams Rubble: I’m having a bad morning after the keg party
    Moon Fargis: let me try something one sec take a few minutes
    Caledonia Heron:

    Apparently Adams lost her balance for a bit:

    Pema Pera: Adams, your performance yesterday was brilliant!
    Pema Pera: stumbling was just too real
    Faenik: why not?
    Pema Pera: no wonder you are drinking coffee now!
    Pema Pera: Cal, you should have seen Adams yesterday
    Caledonia Heron: yes, a bit of a tipple?
    Pema Pera: It was all Stevenaia’s fault
    Caledonia Heron: details, details :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Adams Rubble feels a little woozy

    Circadian rhythms:

    Caledonia Heron: I almost always feel woozy this time of day :)
    Caledonia Heron: not so much a morning person :)
    Pema Pera: I’m not so much an evening person
    Pema Pera: and it’s almost midnight again here
    Pema Pera: Cal, you and I should meet 12 hours from now!
    Caledonia Heron: lol
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: but then again, I had a couple of beers for dinner . . .
    Pema Pera: but now a coffee afterwards in good Dutch style

    Logo Redux:

    Caledonia Heron: yes, the circle :)
    Pema Pera: yes, I like the cirlce in Moon’s design
    Adams Rubble: It is a good design
    Caledonia Heron: yep
    Pema Pera: I wonder whether we can get the 4 in there
    Pema Pera: 4x/hour
    Pema Pera: 4x/day
    Pema Pera: practice and meeting
    Pema Pera: 944
    Pema Pera: better than 911
    Caledonia Heron: we could make 4 white lines in the tassel of the bell
    Caledonia Heron: make 4 strands
    Pema Pera: or four marks in the circle
    Pema Pera: both would work
    Caledonia Heron: yes, at the clock positions :)

    Pema Pera: four thorns, with the nine flowers :-)
    Pema Pera: like the sleeping beauty story
    Caledonia Heron: or little triangles
    Pema Pera: yes
    Caledonia Heron: on the circle

    A departure and logistics:

    Pema Pera: Ah, sorry, I have to go to my astro meeting
    Pema Pera: alas
    Pema Pera: wish I could stay here
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I have landing event soon
    Fael Illyar: See you later Pema.
    Pema Pera: I’m one of the new barristas
    Caledonia Heron: bye Pema :)
    Pema Pera: well, there is no hurry with the logo
    Adams Rubble: Bye :)
    Pema Pera: we can take our time and talk about it!
    Pema Pera: Thanks again, Moon!!!!
    Pema Pera: I very much appreciate your initiative
    Pema Pera: see you all soon again!
    Pema Pera: Fael, you’re taking the log, right?
    Caledonia Heron: talk soon :)
    Faenik: ????^^
    Caledonia Heron: no, me today - we traded :)
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pema Pera: yes, right
    Caledonia Heron: Fael will take my June 18
    Pema Pera: now I remember
    Pema Pera: but you’re leaving too, yes?
    Pema Pera: Perhaps Moon or Adams can pick it up?
    Caledonia Heron: not that the log taker makes all that much difference :)
    Pema Pera: Fael has done so many already!
    Caledonia Heron: yes :)
    Pema Pera: but the log does!
    Pema Pera: I’d like to have the log
    Caledonia Heron: I will stay a bit longer
    Pema Pera: okay, c u all!

    Logo, version 2:

    Moon Fargis: okay
    Moon Fargis: version 2
    Caledonia Heron: k
    Pema Pera: ah, great!
    Pema Pera: even with the four points
    Pema Pera: wonderful Moon!
    Caledonia Heron: !!
    Pema Pera: clap clap clap ! ! !
    Fael Illyar: Ah, good, you removed the flower from the correct side, Moon :)
    Moon Fargis: hehe thx
    Adams Rubble: I just turned on the chat on my computer
    Moon Fargis: i made a little grey outline for you fael
    Moon Fargis: but blouring i think breaks any logo design law sorry:)
    Caledonia Heron: agreed Moon - I get the blurring idea and….hard to translate to a logo
    Moon Fargis: well its more the ability to reproduce it which stops bouring of even colur fades in logos
    Fael Illyar: maybe you could have the bell but have it missing 75% of it’s pixels or something like that?
    Moon Fargis: they have to be able to reproduced at print and plot
    Caledonia Heron: yes I see - I was thinking more that it’s hard to translate the idea of what the blur means effectively
    Moon Fargis: missing 75% of the pixels?
    Fael Illyar: yes, so it’s only partially there
    Fael Illyar: but pixels removed from all over it
    Moon Fargis: well i think it would look more destroyed then :)
    Fael Illyar: so that you can see the shape but it’s not complete
    Caledonia Heron: how will you tell what it is ? or is that the point?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble feels like she has a hairy black ball in her mouth
    Moon Fargis: the other question would be.. what ixels? its a vector graphic:)
    Caledonia Heron: in my email I suggested adding some detailing - white cutouts - on the inside - would that approximate your idea ?
    Caledonia Heron: perhaps a glass of water Adams :)
    Fael Illyar: white cutouts might approximate it, yes
    Fael Illyar: I guess I have to make an example of the effect I meant.
    Moon Fargis: yes :)
    Moon Fargis: i really cant imagine it
    Adams Rubble: sounds like good idea
    Adams Rubble: bravo
    Adams Rubble: picture worth a thousand words
    Adams Rubble: take it from an art historian

    Storm chimed in via email, can he hear our conversation?:

    Caledonia Heron: well, Storm just sent an email that goes a very different way - it seems we have lots more to consider - I’ll stand by my comments, I like it overall,
    Adams Rubble: me 2
    Moon Fargis: oh one second let me read the email
    Caledonia Heron: and there’s no rush so we can work with all the ideas
    Fael Illyar: I have to say that I agree with storm on his points…. except the circle … maybe you could leave one part of the circle open?
    Faenik: could be
    Fael Illyar: like the top?
    Caledonia Heron: like a vessel that fills and empties ? :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes :)
    Caledonia Heron: got it
    Caledonia Heron: and…..the circle is such a perfect form
    Moon Fargis: hmhmhmm so much to consider
    Caledonia Heron: circle round, circle of friends, circle the earth
    Moon Fargis: give nothingness a form hehe
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Moon Fargis: maybe just a blank white logo
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Caledonia Heron: that comment would suggest a no-logo
    Caledonia Heron: LOL, yes!
    Fael Illyar: I sent an example.png to the google group
    Fael Illyar: it has circle with 90% of it’s pixels missing
    Caledonia Heron: loading….
    Adams Rubble: I’m reading Storm’s email and maybe Faenik should be in the center
    Fael Illyar: Faenik?
    Caledonia Heron: Faenik loves wells!!
    Adams Rubble: exactly
    Faenik: why not?
    Adams Rubble: haha
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Fael Illyar: … Faenik wants to be there I guess :P
    Adams Rubble: I’d like to make one serious comment
    Caledonia Heron: Faenik is a mascot, not a logo?

    Comments on art by committee:

    Adams Rubble: It is difficult to do this kind of thing by committee
    Adams Rubble: because someone always is going to be disatisfied with something
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Caledonia Heron: yes, very true Adams
    Fael Illyar: It’s difficult to do it even without
    Fael Illyar: It’s just difficult in a different way
    Adams Rubble: sometimes it is best to let the creator’s best shot do
    Adams Rubble: just a thought
    Moon Fargis: true adams:)
    Adams Rubble: I do web pages and somebody always wants something else
    Adams Rubble: then you make a change and somebody liked the old way better
    Caledonia Heron: I think that’s accurate Adams, hence my comments to simply fine tune the logo, not scrap it for something else
    Fael Illyar: Come to think of it, I’m also just suggesting tunes, although some are quite major :P
    Caledonia Heron: yes, re web pages, manuscripts, any creative object with multiple contributors
    Fael Illyar: Did you take a look at the example.png I put on the google groups page?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I see it now Fael
    Moon Fargis: yep
    Adams Rubble: no, please tell me how to get there
    Fael Illyar: for vector graphics, you just need to decide on the pixel size :P
    Adams Rubble: please help me see

    Considering other way which the logo might be used:

    Caledonia Heron: I wonder if the logo is to be print only or something that can be made an object also such as a metal sculpture
    Moon Fargis: fael: when what happens when we scale that large image with less pixels to a small one for website?
    Caledonia Heron: groups.google.com, uploaded files
    Moon Fargis: squeeze and the pixels do a form again :)
    Adams Rubble: help
    Adams Rubble: what google page?
    Caledonia Heron: groups.google.com, login to playasbeing group, got to uploaded files
    Caledonia Heron: *go to
    Caledonia Heron: ah, maybe you have not been added to the google group?
    Fael Illyar: moon, we use big enough pixels in the first place … or possibly use bigger ones just for the downscaled version.
    Caledonia Heron: again, you might consider that this limits you to print depictions
    Fael Illyar: Aren’t we already limited to those?
    Moon Fargis: fael: well i see your idea but believe me it wouldn’t look good
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I think I agree, if the pixels are removed randomly, it won’t
    Moon Fargis: +n
    Caledonia Heron: well, I thought it might work to make a sculpture of it too, a mandala to hang in different parts of the forest
    Moon Fargis: maybe we have to think more complex
    Moon Fargis: or more simple?
    Adams Rubble: help. It wants to give me the plastering group
    Moon Fargis: maybe more simple complex
    Adams Rubble: I was plastered
    Caledonia Heron: maybe that’s why it showed up Adams :) funny that
    Adams Rubble: ploayasbeing?
    Adams Rubble: playasbeing?
    Caledonia Heron: yes
    Adams Rubble: hmmm….plastering
    Caledonia Heron: the mandal could lead the way to the sea or the pub or wherever
    Caledonia Heron: *mandala
    Caledonia Heron: again, no rush to finish….lots of others will have opinions too :)
    Caledonia Heron: the conversation has started!!
    Fael Illyar: Yes, this shouldn’t be done in a day, probably not even in a week
    Caledonia Heron: agreed -
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

    Adams discovers she’s not in the google group as yet:

    Adams Rubble feels left out that she can’t get into the goggle group
    Moon Fargis: hmm just got a idea
    Moon Fargis: let me see if i can realize it
    Caledonia Heron: ok, I must go - nice to see everyone and thanks to Fael for trading and Moon for the first cut at the logo
    Caledonia Heron: we’ll get you in there Adams :)
    Moon Fargis: sure ciao cal
    Fael Illyar: See you Cal :)
    Caledonia Heron: see you soon :)
    Adams Rubble: have a good day Cal :)

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