2008.06.14 13:00 - Mindfulness of Obsessions

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    That afternoon, Dakini was the main guardian. She sent me the following chat log, with her comments.

    Returning from my walk on a sunny, warm afternoon, Rieul seemed warm and sunny too. Moon, Jer, Fael and I (and Faenik) introduced ourselves…

    Moon Fargis: ah hello dakini
    Dakini Rhode: tag!
    Moon Fargis: :)
    Dakini Rhode: hello Jeremiah
    Moon Fargis: hi jeremiah
    Jeremiah Nacht: Hello Everyone
    Jeremiah Nacht: You can call me Jer
    Dakini Rhode: nice to meet you, Jer
    Moon Fargis: ok jer
    Jeremiah Nacht: You too
    Moon Fargis: i think mia sounds better :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: haha
    Jeremiah Nacht: Mia Farrell
    Jeremiah Nacht: Mama Mia
    Jeremiah Nacht: MIA
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: Hello
    Jeremiah Nacht: Hello
    Dakini Rhode: Hello Fael
    Moon Fargis: rehi fael
    Dakini Rhode: have you been here before, Jer?
    Jeremiah Nacht: No this is my first time but I know a little and I have seen the website
    Dakini Rhode: welcome! how did you hear about us?
    Jeremiah Nacht: Are you the one who wrote about the windshield wipers?
    Dakini Rhode: lol guilty
    Jeremiah Nacht: I met a woman in the art museum here
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: she had a tag Plasbeing Guardian
    Jeremiah Nacht: That was great; I liked that
    Jeremiah Nacht: good analogy
    Moon Fargis: well then :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: You too
    Jeremiah Nacht: and you
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Moon Fargis: we too yes:)
    Jeremiah Nacht: I’m surrounded
    Dakini Rhode checks her tag…
    Moon Fargis: now.. you are safe:)
    Dakini Rhode: lol i need to fix that tag thing
    Dakini Rhode: Jer you’re guarded now for sure
    Jeremiah Nacht: Yes

    Moon transformed into a very large, cartoonish dragon…

    Fael Illyar: Ah, Moon monster again
    Jeremiah Nacht: ???
    Moon Fargis: *smiles*
    Jeremiah Nacht: Oh a friendly monster
    Moon Fargis: MUHAHAHA
    Dakini Rhode: no matter what angle i use on that monster he’s outlined in black
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I’d be interested in knowing how to make that effect :)
    Moon Fargis: yes this is a special cartoonish way to draw prims
    Moon Fargis: os its easy
    Dakini Rhode: you need to show us sometime Moon
    Fael Illyar: I guess we are getting it shown now :)
    Dakini Rhode: i guess so
    Moon Fargis: i hope i remember everything :)
    Dakini Rhode: Jer, we meet here 4 times a day to talk about playasbeing, but we often go wildly off topic
    Jeremiah Nacht: I see
    Jeremiah Nacht: pretty wild
    Dakini Rhode: since you read the blog a bit, what was it that interested you?
    Faenik: why not?
    Moon Fargis: hehe seems i forgot it ..cant be ..
    Dakini Rhode: 9 second forgetting?
    Jeremiah Nacht: It is something new that might be a way in to awareness
    Moon Fargis: ahh there
    Dakini Rhode: yes, that’s the general idea…
    Fael Illyar: awareness, yes, PaB can help you there I think :)
    Dakini Rhode: 9 seconds every 15 minutes
    Fael Illyar: have you tried the explorations yourself yet?
    Faenik loves wells!
    Jeremiah Nacht: Not too much, it took awhile to read at the website
    Dakini Rhode: oh yes, that’s it moon!
    Dakini Rhode: how did you do that?
    Fael Illyar: 2 prims apparently. No idea how you get one of them to show that way though
    Moon Fargis: mde another bll over that one, made it lager, painted the outside with black, hollowed it, nd tured all sides at 360 degree
    Moon Fargis: then i made the inside wich is outside now transparent
    Moon Fargis: thats also the way you can do microprims
    Fael Illyar: ah
    Fael Illyar: Hi Doug
    Dakini Rhode: so it’s black outside and alpha inside and turned inside out?

    Doug joined our conversation, in which our playasbeing chat was interleaved with chat about how Moon made the dragon…

    doug Sosa: hi. here by surprise. i had a free minute i didn’t expect.
    Dakini Rhode: hi Doug!
    Jeremiah Nacht: Hello Doug
    Dakini Rhode: i guess we’re playing with prims today
    doug Sosa: is this a norma gathering time?
    Dakini Rhode: 1PM yes
    Moon Fargis: fael: see the ball seems to get smaller but it size didnt changed
    Dakini Rhode: Doug, pleaes meet Jer
    Moon Fargis: just reduced the hollow
    doug Sosa: I have never been ablte to come at this time.
    Fael Illyar: ah, yes, interesting
    Moon Fargis: ah hi doug
    Dakini Rhode: Doug, do you know Moon and Fael?
    doug Sosa: Hi jer. I would get up and shake hands but , well…
    doug Sosa: No, although :know” here still puzzles me.
    Dakini Rhode: i have a handshake animation
    Jeremiah Nacht: :)
    Dakini Rhode: but it often shakes the air
    Moon Fargis: airshake
    doug Sosa: Right, anothe hand out not recieved..
    Dakini Rhode: very hard to use
    Dakini shakes doug’s hand.
    Dakini Rhode: yes air shake
    doug Sosa: amazing. but i notice it doesn’t show up in my gestures list.
    Dakini Rhode: its an added gesture

    Fael mentioned the mindfulness bell some of us use to time our practice. Then we talked about obsessive thoughts and how to work with them doing the PaB practice…

    Fael Illyar: Jeremiah, if you want to try doing the 9-sec explorations, a software that plays a sound every 15 minutes is useful
    Fael Illyar: http://www.mindfulnessdc.org/mindfulclock.html like this one
    Jeremiah Nacht: Thank you very much
    doug Sosa: Me too, i am downloading it now.
    Fael Illyar: Myself, what I’m mostly trying to do with my 9-second explorations today is I try to drop my obsessions. I tend to accumulate those when I’m doing things
    Dakini Rhode: do you think obsessions are like other sorts of thoughts?
    doug Sosa: i think they are the substitution of a small set of things for a larger set we can’t deal with because of anxiety.
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Moon Fargis: anxiety..
    Dakini Rhode: doug you’re a psychotherapist aren’t you
    Fael Illyar: I haven’t really thought about it. actually.
    doug Sosa: yes, sort of.
    Moon Fargis: ahh fear, sorrow
    Moon Fargis: my dict is burning again hehe
    Dakini Rhode: dictionary?
    Moon Fargis: yes
    Dakini Rhode: translating from english?
    Moon Fargis: yep
    Dakini Rhode: :-)
    Fael Illyar: one of the effects of getting obsessed fast is that I’ve tended to have a hard time doing more than one thing at a time that requires more than cursory attention.
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Dakini Rhode: is it as though you focus on one thing and exclude other things?
    Fael Illyar: I tended to get obsessed with things until I either complete them or finally quit when I get fed up
    Dakini Rhode: ah
    Dakini Rhode: and so when the 15 minutes is over and the bell rings… what do you do?
    Fael Illyar: getting fed up usually takes weeks
    Fael Illyar: I wonder how to explain it, I try to drop anything from my head that’s trying to drag me to do something.
    doug Sosa: right and then just observe for 9 sec.
    doug Sosa: I am sorry but I must leave. bye.
    Fael Illyar: Bye doug
    Moon Fargis: hm bye doug
    Dakini Rhode: yes i would agree, that’s the practice
    Jeremiah Nacht: Bye Doug
    Fael Illyar: Dakini, that, as in dropping anything that’s trying to drag me to do something?
    Dakini Rhode: just let it go for 9 seconds…
    Fael Illyar: I don’t get the obsessions back after the 9 seconds, although I tend to continue what I was doing. Just not feel obsessed with it anymore right after
    Dakini Rhode: or another way would be, just observe it
    Dakini Rhode: that tends to be the way it works…
    Faenik: could be
    Dakini Rhode: lots of people have said that
    Jeremiah Nacht: That sounds great
    Dakini Rhode: and then what happens is it all seems to be held more lightly somehow
    Dakini Rhode: things seem more workable…
    Dakini Rhode: i noticed that myself
    Dakini Rhode: not only with this practice but with other meditation practice
    Fael Illyar: Hi Quilty
    Dakini Rhode: hi Quilty!
    Moon Fargis: hi quilty
    Jeremiah Nacht: Hi Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Everyone. I seem to be always late.
    Moon Fargis: yep:)
    Dakini Rhode: welcome nevertheless :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry. :-)
    Fael Illyar: You’re just missing half the conversation, not a problem, really :)
    Dakini Rhode: half the 10 minute conversation
    Dakini Rhode: haha when these started Pema thought to take 10 minutes…
    Fael Illyar: 10 minute meetings?
    Dakini Rhode: hello Lars
    Quilty Bookmite: Lucky they aren’t or I’d miss them completely.
    Fael Illyar: Hello Lars
    Jeremiah Nacht: Hi Lars
    Dakini Rhode: may i ask, does anyone else not hear our PaB bell ring/
    Lars Lomu: Hello
    Moon Fargis: quilty: not really i think you would only be 9 min and 10 seconds to late then
    Jeremiah Nacht: I hear a bell once in awhile
    Quilty Bookmite: I hear it. Clear as a bell.
    Fael Illyar: The volume is dependant on your camera’s distance from the bell.
    Fael Illyar: it’s nearly inaudible from the other side of the teahouse
    Dakini Rhode: i think i need to put my camera right on the bell then
    Moon Fargis: i also can mod the sript to make it louder
    Dakini Rhode: although when you first put it here i always did hear it
    Dakini Rhode: would it bother anyone else if it were louder?
    Quilty Bookmite: Not at all. It’s very pleasant.
    Fael Illyar: You’ll know if someone complains ;)
    Dakini Rhode: i guess i will :-)
    Fael Illyar: although, there is a way to make the sound limited in how far it can be heard from
    Dakini Rhode: I need to say I must leave now
    Moon Fargis: oh ok see you later dakini
    Fael Illyar: Ok, bye Dakini
    Jeremiah Nacht: It was nice to meet you
    Dakini Rhode: i’ve been logging our chat…which will be posted on the blog
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Dakini
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Dakini Rhode: Jer and Quilty, is it OK with you if your names are posted on teh blog (SL names)
    Quilty Bookmite: yes. No problem.
    Jeremiah Nacht: It is fine with me
    Dakini Rhode: thanks!
    Jeremiah Nacht: What is a Faenik?
    Faenik is right here.
    Moon Fargis: a thing with hairs :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: yes a black ball
    Dakini Rhode: would anyone like to keep logging the chat once i leave?
    Faenik is on Fael’s shoulder.
    Fael Illyar: I always log
    Jeremiah Nacht: Oh I see, thanks
    Jeremiah Nacht: Big eyes
    Dakini Rhode: will you send the second half to Pema please (if you keep chatting about Pab)
    Dakini Rhode: I’ll send along the first half…
    Fael Illyar: sure
    Dakini Rhode: ty
    Dakini Rhode: nice to meet you Jer and Quilty, hope to see you again
    Dakini Rhode: bye
    Dakini Rhode: all
    Jeremiah Nacht: Yes you too bye
    Quilty Bookmite: I’m sure you will. Bye.

    A few of us left the group at the half hour, leaving Fael taking notes with Faenik watching over her shoulder…

    The remaining part of this log was sent in by Fael. The comments from here on are by me, Pema.

    Jeremiah Nacht: There is a white thing on your other shoulder
    Quilty Bookmite: So what was the subject for discussion before I arrived?
    Jeremiah Nacht: are they friends?
    Fael Illyar: The white one is mute :)
    Faenik: ah :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: ah
    Jeremiah Nacht: :)
    Fael Illyar: the white one is actually part of this outfit. I only have that when I use this one.
    Fael Illyar: Faenik I have with almost every outfit.
    Jeremiah Nacht: Very practical
    Fael Illyar: That’s why the dove doesn’t talk :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: :)
    Fael Illyar: I could easily make it talk but … Faenik is chatty enough already ;)
    Jeremiah Nacht: Yes he seems to like to be heard :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: One doesn;t meet many talking animals
    Fael Illyar: They’re rare :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: except in SL :)
    Fael Illyar: even here
    Jeremiah Nacht: Sorry I’m filibustering
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Fael Illyar: filibustering?
    Quilty Bookmite: Since it’s quiet…
    Jeremiah Nacht: talking nonsense to waste time
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe someone can tell me about Playasabeing?
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, Playasbeing.
    Fael Illyar: Ok, what would you like to know?
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Quilty Bookmite: Since two of you are wearing the tags, would I be wrong in assuming there is a Buddhist connection? Or is it just that you know each other well?
    Quilty Bookmite: Sounds good.
    Moon Fargis: well it is not in a traditional buddhist way

    Fael and Moon gave some background information about Play as Being.

    Fael Illyar: Buddhism is probably the closest, ideologically to PaB, but other than that supposedly no connection.
    Moon Fargis: yes but it has many lines that are close with some practical meditations of some buddhist religions
    Fael Illyar: (at least that’s what I remember Pema saying)
    Fael Illyar: There are many Buddhists taking part though.
    Quilty Bookmite: Is it something that comes from RL?
    Moon Fargis: yp
    Moon Fargis: its a rl practise
    Moon Fargis: we just meeet here to talk about it and share what we gathered
    Quilty Bookmite: I will look it up then.
    Quilty Bookmite: Thank you.
    Fael Illyar: I don’t think there is anything else other than the blog on the web yet, is there?
    Moon Fargis: well dont know more no
    Quilty Bookmite: Do you regard it as a religion?
    Moon Fargis: but the blog has a hints page
    Fael Illyar: I don’t
    Moon Fargis: qilty: no
    Moon Fargis: as same as buddhism is no religion for me :)
    Quilty Bookmite: There we may differ. I think of Buddhism as a religion, but in the end it’s just labels.
    Fael Illyar: define religion :)
    Moon Fargis: quilty: yes.. but im intrested what makes it to you as a religion ?
    Quilty Bookmite: Because it is an act of faith.
    Faenik: why not?
    Quilty Bookmite: but if you define religion differently then maybe it isn’t a religion.
    Moon Fargis: isnt that too wnen you watch tv and belive what they say in the news?:)
    Jeremiah Nacht: haha
    Fael Illyar: :D
    Quilty Bookmite: Belief isn’t the same as faith. :-)

    At least for non-native English speakers, like Moon and Fael and me, the distinction is not obvious . . .

    Moon Fargis: *opens is dict*
    Fael Illyar: I guess the difference between belief and faith is how easily you abandon it?
    Quilty Bookmite: Not really…
    Moon Fargis: ahhyes faith… hmm i dont see the difference in those 2 words atm
    Quilty Bookmite: Faith is like jumoing off a cliff but trusting that you aren’t going to simply hit the ground and die.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Quilty Bookmite: You don;t have to believe anything to have faith in it.
    Moon Fargis: so faith makes you belife things ?
    Quilty Bookmite: Nope. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Faith is just trusting,
    Quilty Bookmite: Without trust, why would you meditate?
    Moon Fargis: so.. then do you trust the newsspeakers?:)
    Jeremiah Nacht: I don’t think I would want to jump off a cliff unless Avalokitisvara were there to catch me
    Quilty Bookmite: Have faith that he/she will. :-)
    Moon Fargis: let me call the ambulance first

    Lol, Moon!

    Jeremiah Nacht: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: That’s not really a good argument. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: It’s an analogy often used in Soto Zen.
    Faenik: could be
    Jeremiah Nacht: haha that Faenik is funbny
    Fael Illyar: I meditate to make discoveries about myself and because I find it has useful effects.
    Moon Fargis: ahwell i think buddism is and is not a religion…
    Jeremiah Nacht: I agree with that
    Moon Fargis: would that sound ok ?:)
    Quilty Bookmite: I guess so. It;s not the case for everyone. Sometimes meditation can be quite painful.
    Quilty Bookmite: That sounds fine by me.
    Jeremiah Nacht: especially if someone is slapping you
    Fael Illyar: hmmh, I haven’t had a painful meditation yet.
    Quilty Bookmite: We don;t do that in our particular group. :-)

    The discussion turned to Zen meditation.

    Moon Fargis: fael: if you reach minute 40 . then you will mostly have :)
    Jeremiah Nacht: haha
    Quilty Bookmite: I have had physically painful meditation before I decided to move to a chair.
    Jeremiah Nacht: I can relate to that
    Fael Illyar: then again, I’ve only done those (consciously that is) for a bit over a week :)
    Fael Illyar: physically painful? haven’t had that either, really
    Quilty Bookmite: And i did a week long intensive retreat a few times. That was certainly painful, both physically and emotionally.
    Fael Illyar: I guess I instinctively found a good posture
    Quilty Bookmite: Good for you Fael. :-)
    Fael Illyar: I’ve done mostly 20 minute meditation sessions.
    Fael Illyar: all by myself
    Quilty Bookmite: We have a limit of 40 minutes. 40 is quite hard for me especially when doing it several times a day.
    Moon Fargis: wwell try to raise the time when you are ready to see how long you can do
    Moon Fargis: quilty: 40 min and then kinhin ?
    Quilty Bookmite: i don;t know the word kinhin.
    Moon Fargis: ah sory, walking meditation
    Quilty Bookmite: Walking meditation?
    Fael Illyar: I tend to get some impatience around 10 minutes but that is easy enough to drop. after that, no problem
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
    Fael Illyar: I haven’t tried going more than 20 minutes yet though
    Quilty Bookmite: What is the longest you have done Fael?
    Faenik loves wells!
    Fael Illyar: oh wait, 25
    Fael Illyar: once
    Quilty Bookmite: I guess it’s not a competition. :-)
    Moon Fargis: hmm i noticed that the clocks on the christian churches here in germany gonngs every 15 minutes

    Yes, good point; I myself had not made the connection with PaB practice yet :-)

    Fael Illyar: definitely not a competition :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I struggle to get myself to meditate avery day. so I’m no saint in these matters.
    Fael Illyar: I tried doing without meditation on friday. I gave up after 8 hours and meditated.
    Moon Fargis: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: i am much in admiration of you then Fael. :-)
    Fael Illyar: felt like I just had to clean up my mind again
    Fael Illyar: got messy rather fast
    Fael Illyar didn’t like it
    Quilty Bookmite: For me, I struggle because I fear something I can;t put a name to.
    Moon Fargis: fear what ?
    Quilty Bookmite: I don;t have the faith to jump off the cliff.
    Fael Illyar: Probably something about yourself you’re scared to discover.
    Quilty Bookmite: The unborn, or whatever word you want to put to it.
    Fael Illyar: that you sort of know but don’t know
    Moon Fargis: quilty: no eed to jump of the cliff
    Moon Fargis: take the path towards the water wich is on the right

    Moon kept playing it safe :>).

    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: the middle way is the only way for me. :-)
    Fael Illyar: Myself, I decided long ago that whatever I discover about myself, I will accept it.
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Fael Illyar: Then I can think about trying to change it.
    Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. I would go along with that.
    Quilty Bookmite: Since everyone has the Buddha nature, why not accept it?
    Moon Fargis: fael: you already changed it with the acceptance
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: If I find myself being afraid of some part of myself, I tend to feel the need to find out what
    Moon Fargis: dark side maybe?
    Quilty Bookmite: Meditation is certainly a good way to find out.
    Fael Illyar: At the moment I’m not aware of anything like that.
    Quilty Bookmite: Use the force. :-)
    Fael Illyar: Since I’ve been trying to analyze myself this way for years, I’d think there’s not much left anymore.
    Moon Fargis: fael: look at othrs to see yourself
    Fael Illyar: Oh yes, I do that a lot :)
    Moon Fargis: all cruel things people do,
    Moon Fargis: bad things
    Moon Fargis: you have that potential too
    Moon Fargis: veryone has
    Moon Fargis: +e
    Quilty Bookmite: And the realisation that you aren;t that different from the people who do those things.
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Moon Fargis: this is what you have to be aware of yourself
    Quilty Bookmite: I’m afraid I must go. Feed guinea pigs and go to bed.
    Moon Fargis: ok good night quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: It has been a great pleasure speaking to you all.
    Fael Illyar: I’ve only been doing meditation, knowing it’s meditation, for just over a week but I think I’ve been doing something very close occasionally without knowing.
    Fael Illyar: Good night quilty :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Good night. ;-)
    Moon Fargis: ahell i will als go back to my sim… still alot of things todo :)
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later, Moon :)
    Moon Fargis: ciao everyone
    Fael Illyar: Well, I guess I’ll go as well. Have a nice day, Jeremiah :)

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