2008.06.17 19:00 - What's the Subject

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    That evening, Pia kindly replaced me as the guardian, since I had to leave early. She sent me the following log, with her comments. The title is also hers.

    Maxine, Pema and Adams already sat in front of teahouse when I arrived. They are in good mood and talk about weather in RL and SL.

    Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Pia!
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pia, and Adams
    Adams Rubble: Hi Maxine
    Pia Iger: hI, ALL
    Adams Rubble: Hi Pia
    Maxine Walden: Lovely late afternoon, here
    Pia Iger: here in SL or RL?
    Pema Pera: Yes, though we can make it rain if we want — at least Storm can !
    Maxine Walden: both SL and RL…yes, Storm seems to have many supernatural talents
    Pema Pera: haha, yes
    Pema Pera: he can move mountains!
    Pia Iger: I have not experienced the rain in SL yet.
    Adams Rubble: :(
    Maxine Walden: haha, yes, have seen that and create waterfalls
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: ask Storm next time you meet him Pia!
    Pema Pera: he loves to rain on people
    Pema Pera: and with thunder thrown in if you like!
    Pia Iger: Ok. Will do. Love in the rain, but not feel getting soaked.
    Maxine Walden: indeed a man of many talents, including balloon rides
    Pema Pera: and he can even whip up a storm!

    I can’t help bugging Maxine again about her dream exploration. But conversation turned to the short history of PaB.

    Pia Iger: Maxine, would you like to talk a bit about dreams?
    Maxine Walden: quite a storm, in fact that is how I first met him, he was above my head in the teahouse and all I knew was that something was a bit stormy in the room
    Pema Pera: haha, yes, April foolsday, I remember
    Pema Pera: the day we started PaB
    Pema Pera: seems now veeeerrrrryyyyy long ago
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, April fools…so interesting it seems soo long ago..
    Pia Iger: I was not born yet that time.
    Adams Rubble: A week in SL is a long time
    Maxine Walden: the contrast of the experience of time in RL and SL is intriguing
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Maxine Walden: Pia, you asked about dreams and I am not trying to avoid your question, just need to waken my mind a bit perhaps
    Adams Rubble: Tomorrow is my 2 week anniversary since coming to PaB
    Pia Iger: sure.
    Pema Pera: how time flies, Adams!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: oh, lovely, Adams, does it seem like a long or short time?
    Pia Iger: Adams is already grown up in 2 wks!
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: born with a blog
    Adams Rubble: I almost can;t remember beforePaN
    Adams Rubble: PaB
    Pema Pera: Play as Nobody
    Pema Pera: can work too!
    Pema Pera: emptiness
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Pia Iger: sounds cool.
    Pema Pera: Being has no body

    Fred walked over bridge and join us .

    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hi everyone
    Pema Pera: hi Fred!
    Adams Rubble: Hi Fred
    Pia Iger: Hi, Fred,
    Maxine Walden: hi, Friedrich
    Pema Pera: See, Adams, almost half a dozen :)
    Adams Rubble: yes :)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: a baker’s half dozen?
    Maxine Walden: why not?
    Pema Pera: :)

    We are reminded of Faenik, the Fael’s cat, whom Maxine has not much clue of yet.

    Pema Pera: Maxine, you sound like Faenik
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pia Iger: yes.
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Maxine Walden: hehe, yes, ‘why not’?
    Maxine Walden: never have seen Faenik; is he/she a figment of our imagination?
    Maxine Walden: a voice without a body?
    Pia Iger: no. he is cat on Fael’s shoulder
    Pema Pera: I just realize my battery is down to only a few percent, so I’ll have to move — I’m in a coffee shop right now . . . In fact, it may take me a while to find another place. So if you don’t mind, I’ll say goodbye for now — probably will be back in half an hour, so see you then, whoever is still here by then :-)
    Maxine Walden: oh, did not realize that! Thanks, I will look more closely next time I see her
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: a cheshire cat?
    Adams Rubble: bye, hope you find an outlet
    Pia Iger: ok. Run, Pema!
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: cya - more power to ya
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: How did that happen?
    Pema Pera: that was my very own Faenik impersonation
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Faenik wishes she were here
    Maxine Walden: funny things can happen on your shoulder in Japanese coffee shops
    why not?
    Pema Pera: see y’all !
    Pema Pera: oh!
    Adams Rubble: bye
    Maxine Walden: bye, Pema
    Pema Pera: chat log!
    Maxine Walden: I’ll take it, Pema
    Pema Pera: who of you can catch it, for the next half hour or so?
    Pema Pera: Thanks Maxine!
    Maxine Walden: right
    Pema Pera: bfn

    Pema left and did not make his return in this session. Fred shared with us some news of virtul world.

    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh. i actually saw a demo of sun’s virtual world ‘wonderland’ recently, and it supports phoning into the system…
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: when you do, your voice is just a disembodied orb
    Maxine Walden: wow, hard to imagine that; what’s it like
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: the person giving the presentation said that on any given day, half of sun’s 34k employees work from home or remotely
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: !

    Suddenly I saw an unusual avatar walked from the side of tea house to us. A 10-year old girl! The first child I see in SL! Her name is Shufei, and a neighbor of Dakini.

    Pia Iger: Hi, Shufei, so adorable
    Shufei Zenith: Hello neighbors!
    Shufei Zenith: Thank you, m’am.
    Maxine Walden: hi, Shufei
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hi there
    Shufei Zenith: I never seem to come here when Dakini is here… :>
    Shufei Zenith: Is this the usual teahouse meeting?
    Adams Rubble: Hi Shufel
    Pia Iger: yes. We are having PaB meeting.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: is it ever usual?
    Maxine Walden: yes, this is the usual 7pm SL teahouse meeting, just meeting outside
    Shufei Zenith: xixi :>
    Maxine Walden: good question Fred
    Shufei Zenith: Forgive me for crashing… But I was directing someone here, but she flew off lost, I think. :s
    Pia Iger: welcome
    Maxine Walden: yes, welcome, glad to have you
    Shufei Zenith: Thanks for having! :>
    Pia Iger: It’s my first time talking to a kid in SL.
    Shufei Zenith giggles softly.
    Shufei Zenith: Well, don’t worry, we don’t bite, m’am. :>
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Shufei Zenith: Unless have rabies, of course, but anyone would. :>

    Fred has serious questions about our meetings.

    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: actually, on a serious note, though this exploration is undirected, is there any sense we are going in circles? Perhaps, spirals?
    Maxine Walden: is that your experience, Fred?
    Shufei Zenith: Spir@ls
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: not entirely. i have been out of the loop for a little while, and reflecting on the conversatoin form the outside
    Adams Rubble: What do you mean Fred?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: trying to categorize it. perhaps that was my mistake.
    Adams Rubble: Of course I am fairly new
    Maxine Walden: trying to categorize as a mistake?
    Maxine Walden: there is a sense of less boundary here perhaps (re categorization) than in many RL experiences
    Maxine Walden: I find anyway
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: just trying to get a better handle and wrap my mind around what it is we are sharing here
    Adams Rubble: I wonder if we might be looking for different things

    At this time, Shufei’s friend Neela found us. And Fred kept his questioning..

    Adams Rubble: Hi Beela
    Shufei Zenith: (Yay, you found it. :>)
    Adams Rubble: Neela
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi, yeah I keep getting lost. Do you always run?
    Shufei Zenith: xixi, sorry, I wasn’t running. :> I tried to catch up with you, though, but you flew away. :D
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: no doubt. i guess i have a hard time explaining some aspects of PaB to others, and also, have not been able to recreate this kind of conversatoin offline either
    Maxine Walden: always an interesting question, hi, Neela; Adams what are your observations about these conversations
    Maxine Walden: ?
    Adams Rubble: Each session is so different
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Adams Rubble: I don;t know if I could caterggize
    Neela Blaisdale: This is my first
    Adams Rubble: catergize
    Adams Rubble: Welcome Neela
    Neela Blaisdale: Thanks
    Adams Rubble: Some meetings have been deep, some fun, some a little absurb
    Maxine Walden: that is my experience as well, each session is different, and yet seems to have its own center, and coherence, coming from the input of each person resonating with the others…something like that
    Adams Rubble: I can’t spell tonight
    Shufei Zenith: :>
    Maxine Walden: (a common problem for me as well, spelling)
    Adams Rubble: Yes different people meeting different needs
    Shufei Zenith: Spllingg is ovrrated. :D
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: so is spilling overrated!
    Neela Blaisdale: So is walking

    I thought I need mention our blogs to new people. It turned out they already knew about it. Guess PaB is getting famous in this neighborhood:)

    Pia Iger: Oh, Neela and Shufei, we blog our conversation here, do you two mind?
    Shufei Zenith: Not I. I am familiar with the blog, m’am. :>
    Neela Blaisdale: What does that mean do I have to do anything technical?
    Pia Iger: no.
    Shufei Zenith is a neighbor here, but till now has missed coming to your meeting. :>
    Pia Iger: we just record what we said here and put in a blog online.
    Neela Blaisdale: Sounds fine, I’ve seen the web site
    Adams Rubble: Each meeting is an adventure
    Pia Iger: good.
    Pia Iger: Yes. different people. different talks.

    Steve came and joined us. Fred continued his impression of our PaB meeting and brought up a word that puzzled the rest of us, while Neela was trying to get rid of bothering IM.

    Adams Rubble: Hi Steve
    Neela Blaisdale: And I love your pace, it’s calming
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello, Adams
    Maxine Walden: each meeting is like its own meandering stream
    Pia Iger: Hi, Steve
    Maxine Walden: hi Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi everyone
    Neela Blaisdale: Hello Steve, nice to meet you
    Shufei Zenith: Howdy Mr. Michinaga.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: howdy
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi neela, Shufei
    Shufei Zenith: :>
    Pia Iger: I do like Frid’s email today, suggesting some structure to our meetings.
    Pia Iger: For those come here often, it’s easier to talk more deeply.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: something i have been thinking about a bit in relation to our conversations about reality is the role of inter-subjectivity
    Shufei Zenith: I only read of that fellow… Oh, dear forgot his name… who is buying a route to the sea with you all.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i was realizing that rarely comes up directly
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: more just the relation of a subject to being
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: or, their identity
    Maxine Walden: but you are bringing it up now…maybe you have had more thoughts about that, the subject?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (i mean, the unity betwen the subject and being, not a person’s identity)
    Maxine Walden: yes, subject and being?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, its a question that needs to be addressed at some point - i am not really sure where or how it comes up intraditioanl buddist thought
    Neela Blaisdale: I seem to be getting constant IM from another group and it’s hard to follow here do you know how I can get rid of the IM
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i begins to cross over into the realm of politics (little ‘p’), which we manage to deftly avoid often too
    Adams Rubble: You really can’t ecept to quit the hroup
    Adams Rubble: except
    Adams Rubble: group
    Shufei Zenith: Edit > Preferences > text chat > show chat bubbles. :> Helps me, Ms. Blaisdale.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think a Busy state may work and keep local lines clear here
    Adams Rubble: If you open the chat window and put it on chat, the messages won’t be so annoying
    Maxine Walden: conversations we would like to be a part of and others we might not wish to tune into
    Maxine Walden: sometimes a technical issue, sometimes a matter of attention
    Neela Blaisdale: Thnaks
    Shufei Zenith: Mr. Ochesenhorn, please clarify what you mean by subject and being and your concern over these in this medium?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: please, call me Fred ;-)
    Shufei Zenith: O, I will try, sir. :>
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh. well, i wasn’t intending to get boged down w/ subjects and being. i /think/ that’s a popular theme in our coversatoins
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: no?
    Shufei Zenith: xixi, ok. Still trying to absorb what you mean by them.
    Pia Iger: we may use different words.
    Pia Iger: I think we are exploring Being and reality.
    Shufei Zenith: Ok. :>
    Pia Iger: never use the word “subject”
    Pia Iger: never used..
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, it’s problematic for me, m’am, which is why I asked. Not sure how to parse it.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: to the extent that the PaB practice offers me a glimse of the unity of reality, and my relation to being.. i mean, i guess I thought the ’subject’ was one of the realities we are poking holes in
    Pia Iger: I like being called “M’am”:)
    Shufei Zenith: xixi, glad to oblige, m’am. :>
    Maxine Walden: Fred, could you say more?
    Shufei Zenith listens to the poking of reality and other beasties.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, that was a mouthful
    Adams Rubble: It is possible that some us who were not here from the beginning may be a bit confused by terminology
    Adams Rubble: I am cofused by what you mean by subject too
    Pia Iger: Subject need to be clarified.
    Neela Blaisdale: That would be me
    Shufei Zenith: Sounds vaguely Cartesian.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: how about ‘I’
    Shufei Zenith: Homunculus, gotcha.
    Pia Iger: ok. easier.
    Adams Rubble: yes easier
    Adams Rubble: Now I forget the question :)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh. that’s because this was the leadup to the question
    Adams Rubble: OL
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: seems i managed to create a bit of speedbump. don’t mind me.
    Pia Iger: This is example of not use uniformed language.
    Neela Blaisdale: Uniformed or unformed?
    Pia Iger: We should use similar words, to avoid confusion
    Maxine Walden: perhaps the ‘I’ that has various experiences, or layers of experience often simultaneously, each of which offers a lens upon ‘reality’; how do we discern ‘the’ reality when there are so many lenses

    Shufei is very impressive…

    Adams Rubble likes Shufei’s chat windows
    Maxine Walden: yes!
    Neela Blaisdale: Maybe the only reality is the one each of us has
    Shufei Zenith: My windows? :”>
    Shufei Zenith polishes them.
    Adams Rubble: bubbles
    Adams Rubble: haha
    Maxine Walden: bubbles, windows, lenses…
    Shufei Zenith subjects her subjective bubbles to a sheen of soap.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: neela: i’m willing to entertain that, but where does it leave all the other ‘I’s at this meeting?
    Adams Rubble: We’ll manage
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: ha ha.
    Maxine Walden: which ones do we polish; maybe different ones at different moments, tolerating all our differences?
    Shufei Zenith: Well, if we shine enough, I hear, we reflect the moon better, and all such ethereal truths.
    Shufei Zenith: But it means having less subject, so I hear.
    Adams Rubble: precocious child
    Shufei Zenith: :P :>
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: less subject is great. but there are many out there that need to be accommodated. Compassion might be part of the story
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, if we are talking about the nature of reality here, other ‘I’s might have quite a significant influence.
    Maxine Walden: I will need to leave in a few minutes (and will take the chatlog ).
    Maxine Walden: just to mention so it is not a surprise, but not wanting to disturb the flow of conversation
    Shufei Zenith nods to Ms. Walden’s comment.
    Shufei Zenith: Compassion is an outward, active flow, I suggest. A such, we don’t possess it in any subject’s being.
    Shufei Zenith: It’s more a “thou” thing.
    Shufei Zenith: But then again… Maybe we need to be compassionate to our own subjects too.
    Pia Iger: wow..
    Shufei Zenith gets a headache from her subject.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Shufei Zenith giggles softly.
    Neela Blaisdale: giggle

    Shufei’s another friend joined us. Then Fred and Maxine departed.

    Shufei Zenith: This my friend Shashe. Say hi, Shahse? :>
    Pia Iger: Shufel, can you come more often. We love you!
    Pia Iger: Hi, Shahse
    Shufei Zenith: :”D
    Shashe Neva: Good evening Fred :)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh. you asked ( i think). i forget
    Pia Iger: I was thinking to use “Toodles” tonight!
    Shufei Zenith giggles softly.

    Lovely giggles. And Shufei has something to say about being.

    Shufei Zenith: You know, Mr. Fred made me think of a professor I had once who taught Paul Tillich.
    Pia Iger: and?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Shufei Zenith: He said that “being” is a verb, and must be regarded consciously as such.
    Pia Iger: why?
    Shufei Zenith: People too often call it a noun.
    Shufei Zenith: It muddles us.
    Pia Iger: It’s both to me.
    Shufei Zenith: It’s a dynamic process.
    Shufei Zenith: xixi, yesh!
    Shufei Zenith: Or something else.
    Adams Rubble: Aged beyond her years
    Pia Iger: that is why I like kids.
    Shufei Zenith: xixi,, who? :>
    Shufei Zenith: But really, think on it.
    Shufei Zenith: People try to site themselves in a thing.
    Mad Bling: hello all
    Shufei Zenith: A spot, like a lil dollip. But it’s something mutable.
    Shufei Zenith: Howdy, there Bling. :>
    Pia Iger: Everything is moving…
    Neela Blaisdale: Hello Bling
    Shufei Zenith: Change, yesh. :>
    Pia Iger: right.
    Shashe Neva: Grettings Bling :)

    Came in Mad Bing and he sat himself on the porch.

    Mad Bling: what’s the disscussion?
    Pia Iger: Being.
    Mad Bling: good to see so many people here at the retreat
    Shufei Zenith: grammar of being. :>
    Mad Bling: ah
    Shufei Zenith: subjects and verbs.
    Mad Bling: nothing originates; everything depends
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, Nothing does.
    Mad Bling: please don’t let me interrupt you, i’m just here for sitting
    Shufei Zenith giggles softly.

    Time to leave for many people…and I chatted a bit more with Shufei.

    Neela Blaisdale: Time for me to go, too sleepy to keep up. Nice to meet you all, see you soon
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice meeting you Neela
    Pia Iger: Toodles, Neela.
    Shufei Zenith: G’bye, ma’am. Nice to meet you, and welcome to Meium anytime.
    Shashe Neva: TTFN :)
    Shufei Zenith: (or Rieul. :D )
    Adams Rubble: Time for me to go to. Interesting grammatical issue Shufei
    Adams Rubble: bye everybody :)
    Pia Iger: bye, Adams.
    Shufei Zenith: I hope to chat with you again, Ms. Rubble.
    Shashe Neva: Good night Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: You too young lady
    Shufei Zenith: :>
    Pia Iger: Shufei, where do you live?
    Shufei Zenith: Oh, just over the hill yonder, m’am. Across the moor.
    Pia Iger: do you have a big house?
    Shufei Zenith: Shashe and I have a lil temple there. It’s green.
    Pia Iger: oh.
    Shashe Neva: :)
    Shufei Zenith: And red. :>
    Pia Iger: Can I visit some time?
    Shufei Zenith: You may visit anytime, and pleased to have you, ma’am. :D
    Pia Iger: thx.
    Shufei Zenith: It’s Cijian temple. We don’t have this meeting stuff yet, though.
    Pia Iger: So you came to our meeting before?
    Shufei Zenith: Oh, not before, I’m afraid. I was looking for Ms. Dakini, but never saw her on…
    Shufei Zenith: And I met that fellow once… I forgot his name.
    Mad Bling: haven’t seen her on in a few
    Mad Bling: isen?
    Pia Iger: or Pema?
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, quite a few neighbors to worry about, I’ve not seen them about.
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh…
    Pia Iger: Pema started the PaB meeting. Dakini lend the teahouse.
    Shufei Zenith: Oh, I see! How long have you all been meeting?
    Pia Iger: since april fool day.
    Shufei Zenith: Wow, only thus?
    Mad Bling: i’m not part of pab. dakini mentioned something about it to me before
    Pia Iger: 4 times a day. 1am, 7am, 1pam, 7 pm
    Shufei Zenith: Hehe, everyone comes each time? That’s impressive commitment.
    Pia Iger: no.
    Pia Iger: any slot you can make it.
    Shufei Zenith nods. :>
    Shufei Zenith: xixi, sorry, I’m a bit slow tonight, tired myself…
    Pia Iger: We talk about Being and reality. You look like a right person to join.
    Pia Iger: you don’t look slow at all
    Mad Bling: i’m a zen teacher, come here to sit
    Shufei Zenith: I would be honored to come now and then, if I’m on.
    Pia Iger: Welcome, Bling
    Mad Bling: but yeah, i told dakini i’d make more of an effort to hang around the land
    Pia Iger: sure, Shufel, you can come any time

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