2008.06.23 13:00 - Mahakaruna

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    That afternoon, Stim was the guardian. Adams later sent me the chat log. The comments are mine.

    Adams and Stim met in the pavilion.

    Stim Morane: Hi Adams
    Stim Morane: How are you today?
    Adams Rubble: Hi Stim. I am well. How are you?
    Stim Morane: A bit tired … haven’t slept much since last Wednesday
    Adams Rubble: Yes, I am a bit tired too
    Adams Rubble: I found the advice that you gave on anger very helpful
    Adams Rubble: It was a new idea to me to relate it to the larger entity
    Stim Morane: Can you say which point you were considering? Oh, I see … yes.
    Stim Morane: That is of course the most advanced part, a strange place to start in some ways.
    Adams Rubble: and to compasion
    Stim Morane: It’s basically the definition of mahakaruna
    Stim Morane: Great Compassion
    Adams Rubble: Like the Bodhisattvas?
    Stim Morane: exactly
    Stim Morane: But perhaps we can take a cue from it …
    Adams Rubble: It is helpful to think that way
    Stim Morane: the main point that’s easy to work with is that compassion needn’t be thought of as an emotion
    Stim Morane: mahakaruna is outside of the usual emotion-oriented range
    Adams Rubble: Sort of like Christian Love?
    Stim Morane: But this is still available to us in ordinary life.
    Stim Morane: Oh, agape love? Yes, perhaps. That’s a big discussion, perhaps.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stim Morane: It would be good, with this as with so many other topics, if we could find our own connections without too much reliance on an entire traditional framing
    Stim Morane: It remains to be seen how realistic that is, of course
    Adams Rubble: I was thinking in the narrow sense of emotion
    Adams Rubble: or non-emotion
    Stim Morane: yes

    They talked about how to realize compassion in practice.

    Stim Morane: so you see ways of of working with this?
    Adams Rubble: I am going to try to remember it when I need it :)
    Stim Morane: great
    Adams Rubble: when I can’t understand why someone is making me angry
    Stim Morane: it’s interesting how often this kind of difficulty comes up in discussions.
    Adams Rubble: such a common problem on various levels
    Adams Rubble: but somehow I suspect that we need to learn to live this a litle in order for it to be available to us
    Stim Morane: yes … and a good example of many things
    Stim Morane: yes it takes some work.
    Stim Morane: I had studied with my Tibetan teachers for about 20 years before I realized just how often I was carrying anger around. It should have been obvious, perhaps, but wasn’t to me, anyway.
    Adams Rubble: thank you for sharing that. It is soboring to think of what I may be carrying around
    Stim Morane: well, I was probably unusually thick
    Stim Morane: I didn’t mean to imply someone else would take that long
    Adams Rubble: Well we may have different things
    Adams Rubble: I guess that is part of the “I” Pema keeps talking about?
    Stim Morane: yes
    Adams Rubble: I have lots of I
    Stim Morane: it’s inextricably connected to that “self”
    Stim Morane: Ha!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stim Morane: Yes, it’s funny, since there really isn’t this “self” …
    Stim Morane: the self is codependent with the self

    The topic of “self” would continue to come back in the following sessions.

    Stim Morane: anyway, are there other topics that have been coming up for you lately?
    Adams Rubble: I am still working on the question of what I am NOT seeing
    Stim Morane: how?
    Adams Rubble: The larger entity you mentioned the other night was one thing
    Stim Morane: oh
    Adams Rubble: not that I didn’t know it existed
    Stim Morane: since that is inseparable from “emptiness”, so it can’t be targeted as an object of our attention
    Adams Rubble: but the way the mindfulness of of it helped in the anger example
    Stim Morane: yes, I see
    Stim Morane: just the View involved could help
    Stim Morane: I mean, the View we already discussed and that you’re mentioning here
    Adams Rubble: I wish I had more questions ready for you
    Adams Rubble: I wonder if it might be helpful to explore compassion
    Stim Morane: That’s okay. On another subject, your coat is very interesting… I’ve never seen a cut quite like that.
    Stim Morane: sorry, text shuffle
    Adams Rubble: Thanks. hehe. Fael told me about the place where she gets her clothes
    Stim Morane: It’s good.
    Adams Rubble: On some level, the ability to have compassion would seem to depend on a state of mind
    Stim Morane: it certainly depends on a willingness to live as more than the selfish self
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: I guess that is the hard part
    Adams Rubble: or one hard part

    Stim brought up the comparison with his RL teachings.

    Stim Morane: In traditional teachings, such as I give at the monastery here in real life, that topic occupies a lot of our discussions. I’m not sure yet whether we can discuss it very effectively in this new “second life” context. This is a learning experience for me.
    Adams Rubble: That is interesting. I wonder what is the difference?
    Stim Morane: It may turn out that there is no difference, other than my own clumsiness with virtual reality spaces.
    Adams Rubble: It would seem to me to involve ideas, am I missing something?
    Stim Morane: What I’m thinking about however, is simply getting to know people well enough that this “selfish self” issue can be seen relatively clearly by all concerned. That is, in a person-specific way
    Stim Morane: All these teachings have to become tangibly found.
    Adams Rubble: so facial expressions and body language are missing
    Stim Morane: tangibly placed with relation to what we are up to.
    Stim Morane: Yes, it helps for people to see each other, etc. Anyway, it’s not my intention to make a problem where there may not be one.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stim Morane: For now, I’m happy to assume I just am too much of a newbie …
    Stim Morane: But wherever we are, we do have a responsibility re our own minds.
    Stim Morane: This cannot be skipped just because one is familiar with theory.
    Stim Morane: That was my problem in the distant past, for instance.
    Adams Rubble: Could we substitute behavior for minds or am I missing the point?
    Stim Morane: Behavior is the action of the body … but in a more traditional context, even the action of the mind must be seen.
    Stim Morane: This applies even if we never “act out”
    Adams Rubble: I see, so in a larger sense
    Adams Rubble: than behavior
    Stim Morane: yes
    Adams Rubble: like intentions?
    Stim Morane: “karma” just means “action” … of mind, body, speech
    Stim Morane: Yes, intentions are a huge component and must be seen.
    Stim Morane: intentions “happen” … they involve an action
    Adams Rubble: hmmm
    Stim Morane: It’s OK to disagree, by the way. What do you think?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: I am still in the absorbing stage…I do not have an argument. but thank you :)
    Stim Morane: All I’m really saying is that when we can take responsibility for the subtle actions of the mind that get in the way of the Reality involved in Great Compassion, then the latter is clearly available.
    Adams Rubble: Yes, I see!!!!
    Stim Morane: the idea is not so odd … it’s just the follow-through that’s hard sometimes
    Adams Rubble: Yes
    Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must go, I wish I could hear more
    Stim Morane: Yes, thanks for joining me!
    Adams Rubble: Are you responsible for the log today?
    Stim Morane: I’ll send it off, yes.
    Adams Rubble: I am so glad I came today. Thank you for your advice
    Stim Morane: Thank you, Adams!
    Adams Rubble: bye for now :)
    Stim Morane: Bye!

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