2008.08.07 07:00 - Enough About Me

xo Cal

[p.s. - Dear Readers, this log had a set of comments which I deleted after reflection.  I would prefer we focus on the content of the discussion rather than my interpretation of them.  My conclusion is to consider this a learning process and I appreciate your patience.  See you soon.] 

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Connected
Fael Illyar: Hi Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: hi Fael
Fael Illyar: :)
Fael Illyar just burst into laughing reading that "Who knows?" notice.
Caledonia Heron: which notice is that?
Fael Illyar: I'm hopefully looking at it
Faenik: indeed?
Fael Illyar: well, for sure now
Fael Illyar: that Zen Buddhist part was the one :)
Caledonia Heron: cute

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Caledonia Heron: so what's up?
Fael Illyar: I somehow find myself at a loss of words trying to think of an answer.
Caledonia Heron: ok, probably will be a quiet meeting then :)
Fael Illyar: could be, unless someone else shows up.

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Caledonia Heron: I noticed you were here yesterday morning also yet did not "speak"
Fael Illyar: I was in an IM. Would probably have been better to not come at all I suppose. I didn't expect that IM to last that long.
Caledonia Heron: I understand. Yes, ironically part of the discussion was about people in meetings who are not present in the meeting :)

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Fael Illyar: Hello NubAndStub.
Caledonia Heron: hi NubandStub :)
NubAndStub Seetan: Hello
Faenik: indeed?
Fael Illyar: Hi Tahuti :)
Caledonia Heron: Hi Tahuti :)
NubAndStub Seetan: this place reminds me of vietnam
NubAndStub Seetan: its relaxing
Caledonia Heron: yes Nub, an Asian look and feel
Tahuti Thor: hello everyone
Caledonia Heron: nice to meet you both Nub and Tahuti
Caledonia Heron: have you been to this discussion group before?
Tahuti Thor: hi caledonia
Tahuti Thor: yes
NubAndStub Seetan: no
NubAndStub Seetan: im a FNG
Caledonia Heron: want to do the honors and describe what we're up to for Nub, Tahuti?
Caledonia Heron: what is FNG?
NubAndStub Seetan: its a military term for newbie
Caledonia Heron: ok, I'll just guess the acronym :)
NubAndStub Seetan: lol best bet
Tahuti Thor: dunno......i usually follow the topic people choose to discuss

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Caledonia Heron: this is the playasbeing group Nub
Caledonia Heron: we are doing a type of experiment
Caledonia Heron: to try and understand the nature of reality
NubAndStub Seetan: ok
Faenik: ????^^
Caledonia Heron: there is a suggested guideline ...to start the exploration
NubAndStub Seetan: and what have you concluded up to this point?
Caledonia Heron: there is no conclusion... a whole lot of discussion about people's experiences
Caledonia Heron: the guideline begins with what's called the 9seconds
Caledonia Heron: take 9 secs every 15 minutes of an hour say and relax, drop your surroundings, your focus and see what you experience
Faenik: ah :)
Caledonia Heron: the people who meet here have agreed to do that (or some variations on that) and come here and report back
Caledonia Heron: so....here we are, reporting :)
Fael Illyar: Well, it's not required to do that to participate though.
Caledonia Heron: there is a wiki.... playasbeing.wik.is
NubAndStub Seetan: great
Caledonia Heron: that's true Fael, as I said, a suggested guideline
Fael Illyar: it's more useful to give the whole link http://playasbeing.wik.is/ as you can click on it.
Caledonia Heron: sure Fael, thanks so very much
Caledonia Heron: anything else you'd like to add?
Fael Illyar: at least from the chat history :)
Caledonia Heron: yes, it's a matter of perspective
Fael Illyar: Well, other than asking for permission to post nubs lines and SL name to the log, I can't see anything you forgot :)
Caledonia Heron: correct Fael, Nub - may we include your comments in the log?
NubAndStub Seetan: thats fine but i will probably mostly observe
NubAndStub Seetan: if that's ok
Caledonia Heron: yes of course - participate at whatever level you like
NubAndStub Seetan: very well
Faenik: indeed?

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Fael Illyar is suddenly surprised at her sudden unwillingness to describe things using the word "I".
Caledonia Heron: I wonder why that is Fael?
Tahuti Thor: ego-attachment reduction
Fael Illyar: yes
Caledonia Heron: so as I understand you are reducing your attachment to your ego
Fael Illyar: been at it for a few days.
Caledonia Heron: that means over the few days you use the word "I" less and less?
Fael Illyar: No, not really. This is quite sudden.
Caledonia Heron: ok - your comment "at it for a few days" made me think that....want to explain what you mean?

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Tahuti Thor: I concepts resurrect and proliferate attachment again
Tahuti Thor: I, myself, me
Faenik: ????^^
Tahuti Thor: thats very good, it only took u a few days :)
Fael Illyar: Well, it's kind of inconvenient since it's now difficult to think of things to say.
Caledonia Heron: what is inconvenient?
Caledonia Heron: the not using "I" makes it inconvenient to speak since you don't refer to yourself?
Fael Illyar: Yes
Caledonia Heron: [trying to get it, not trying to be a jerk :)]
Fael Illyar: earlier attempt at that was simply avoiding using "I" ... mimicking Avastu.
Fael Illyar: now it seems the thoughts are not coming.
Caledonia Heron: that not using "I" is a more natural response as opposed to a mimic?
Fael Illyar: yes
Caledonia Heron: let me go ahead and ask the elephant in the room question - why are you doing that?
Fael Illyar: it's a side effect of sorts, perhaps. Unexpected.
Caledonia Heron: a side effect of the 9sec practice?
Fael Illyar: Ah, no, putting down the ego wall.

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Fael Illyar: although, it being ego wall wasn't quite clear until this morning
Tahuti Thor: u say things as usual. you are only dropping the pronouns (I, me, myself)
Tahuti Thor: and u begin the sentence with verb
Fael Illyar: Yes, "I" concept is creeping back
Tahuti Thor: someone ask u where u going? you say, "going to store"
Tahuti Thor: dont have to say "I am going to store"
Faenik: why not?
Caledonia Heron: why in the world not say that?
Tahuti Thor: you can but our language if we are not careful will manufacture our egos
Fael Illyar: Ok, I'm back to thinking with I concept here. Probably better not to creep Cal out any more than this :)
Caledonia Heron: sounds like Buddha babble to me
Tahuti Thor: certain words/concepts adds fuel to the fire (so to speak)
Caledonia Heron: if it works for you go for it :)
Tahuti Thor: you dont have to do it if u dont want to :)
Caledonia Heron: that is certainly true Tahuti
Fael Illyar: Anyway, I found this ego wall a few days ago.
Caledonia Heron: I am not creeped out
Caledonia Heron: that's somewhat pejorative
Caledonia Heron: help me out here - what is an ego wall?
Fael Illyar: Sorry, I'll try to keep from saying things rashly.
Fael Illyar: ego wall would be the mental construct that makes you see yourself and the world as separate
Caledonia Heron: ok, sure - that's pretty well defined in the literature

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Fael Illyar: So, a few days ago when I mediated, I was puzzled about feeling tired after it so I sat back down pondering about that.
Tahuti Thor: im not sure its a mental construct as it is a mental state
Caledonia Heron: and your conclusion Fael?
Fael Illyar: somewhat instinctively, I'm not sure what did it but something pushed this thing I call ego wall down a bit.
Fael Illyar: and I saw it and the effect
Fael Illyar: tiredness was gone
Caledonia Heron: sounds like a positive response
Fael Illyar: I probably had it way too strong at the moment.
Caledonia Heron: you get what you get - so the strength of it is right where it is, perfect where it is :)
Caledonia Heron: that's not to say it's working well in context
Fael Illyar: from my, ego, perspective, it wasn't.
Fael Illyar: rather unenjoyable state.
Caledonia Heron: the over-strength of it was unenjoyable?
Fael Illyar: Yes, you feel rather isolated
Faenik: ????^^
Caledonia Heron: mmmm, I can see that it might
Fael Illyar: unable to accept/see things from around you
Caledonia Heron: unable to accept input?
Fael Illyar: well, strictly speaking you see but it doesn't get through the surface.
Tahuti Thor: o i c
Tahuti Thor: mental agitation?
Fael Illyar: I guess you could call the state depressed
Caledonia Heron: or withdrawn perhaps?
Fael Illyar: as good as any description I guess :)
Caledonia Heron: to me depressed is more like no hope, withdrawn is like isolated ... but that's my interpretation
Fael Illyar: it wasn't that strong I guess.

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Caledonia Heron: hi Claire :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Claire :)
Claire Beltran: Hi... I'm not here to talk, I'm afraid.
Tahuti Thor: and u acted in a positive way to bring u back into a whole state?
Claire Beltran: Just checking up on a few things...
Tahuti Thor: and u dont kno exactly what u did?
Claire Beltran: ^^;
Caledonia Heron: ok, check away Claire :)
Tahuti Thor: hi claire
Fael Illyar: I know what I did well enough that I can put the ego wall up/down at will.
Caledonia Heron: she's already gone I think :)
Fael Illyar: apparently quite completely too.
Caledonia Heron: interesting ...
Fael Illyar: although that complete removal of the wall was a bit accidental.
Fael Illyar: if it was complete
Caledonia Heron: lots of great breakthroughs are accidental .. in fact, kind of the nature...you broke through!! :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, true :)
Fael Illyar: I've been experimenting consicously and unconsciously for a few days and it seems the more I get the wall down, the more at peace I am.
Faenik: why not?
Caledonia Heron: lol, oh Faenik, you're so funny sometimes :)
Caledonia Heron: more peace is a good thing Fael, in my book anyway :)

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Tahuti Thor: this path is very abstruse.....and to organize your thoughts correctly so you can tackle things and comprehend dem in way to communicate to other people
Tahuti Thor: is very difficult to do
Caledonia Heron: agreed Tahuti - in fact the communication of our experiences is a large part of our pab effort... so thanks for sharing your experience
Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Well, it was rather short :)
Fael Illyar: but, you're welcome :)
Caledonia Heron: are there other elements we should be aware of?
Fael Illyar: at the moment no.
Tahuti Thor: when that events happens again , see if u can nail down what u did
Fael Illyar: I somehow feel like I should be able to make it happen again.
Fael Illyar: although, doesn't seem to be easy.
Caledonia Heron: that sounds correct - although it might not look exactly the same - more like it could be a variation and then variations on that so that eventually you have a catalog of experiences and you know them all to be of that family
Fael Illyar: possible :)
Tahuti Thor: did u concentrate the mind a little so the mind will be calm
Caledonia Heron: my comment is based on my own experiences I have had within the context of the 9sec experiment .... all the experiences are not the same per se but of the same nature, in a related way the same ballpark
Tahuti Thor: and not wander is all directions?
Fael Illyar: I'm not sure I understand your question
Tahuti Thor: did u focus the attention of the mind on a single object, to quiet down its agitation?
Fael Illyar: it seems a lot of progress I make is subconscious somehow. I then learn to do it consciously a bit later.
Fael Illyar: no object
Caledonia Heron: the membrane is permeable :)
Faenik loves wells!

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Tahuti Thor: object does not have to be form
Tahuti Thor: could be a mental object of some sort
Caledonia Heron: lol, is there any other kind of object? :)
Fael Illyar: well, I've had the feeling of extending something from the sides of my head when I lower the wall
Caledonia Heron: now that's interesting
Tahuti Thor: material and mental objects
Caledonia Heron: can you describe what that is Fael?
Fael Illyar: near my ears to be exact but it's not very easy to define what it is. Certainly not physical :)
Caledonia Heron: can we try ... tease it out a little bit?
Caledonia Heron: this really interests me ....
Caledonia Heron: like energy maybe?
Fael Illyar: for some reason I get the feeling the color should be golden, hazy, misty.
Caledonia Heron: yes, ok, nice descriptive :)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Tahuti Thor: extending from side of head = opening up your mind ?
Caledonia Heron: I think the description of how these things manifest in our imagination and our bodies is fascinating and on point to our efforts to describe what's happening during our explorations
Fael Illyar: Well, a few times I had the idea of it starting to extend from the sides of the head to both sides but end up coming out of all directions.
Caledonia Heron: wow

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Tahuti Thor: imagination is dangerous
Caledonia Heron: I can share that I had an experience, a physiological experience of a plume of energy rising from the middle of my body to the top of my head
Fael Illyar: but that image I just described has been fading.
Tahuti Thor: u should jus keep meditating and not think bout things too much
Caledonia Heron: I think imagination is fabulous
Tahuti Thor: no it can mislead
Caledonia Heron: to imagine, daydream, make new things, create things out of nothing
Caledonia Heron: mislead?
Fael Illyar: well, it does come naturally to us.
Caledonia Heron: yes, a part of being, an integral part
Caledonia Heron: the sensation I described about a plume of energy rising was a response to thinking about how to see from an enlightened perspective ... like being outside oneself, and drawing up the energy from the land, from everything around and then it coming to the middle of my body, to the navel and then rising up up up like a plume of energy to my throat, my eyes like it wanted to come back out into the world where it had come from in the first place
Caledonia Heron: so it is very interesting to me to hear your description of a golden hazy mist in relation to your being experiment :)
Faenik: ????^^
Fael Illyar: I wasn't thinking of it as an experiment but I suppose that works too. It's more like diving in the deep end learning to breathe and fast.
Caledonia Heron: lol, sure :)
Faenik: ????^^
Fael Illyar: Well, that sort of fits
Caledonia Heron: indeed :)

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Fael Illyar: I'm doing things fast but feels like it'd be forcing to change the speed in either direction.
Caledonia Heron: I'd say go with it
Caledonia Heron: it doesn't matter what speed it is
Caledonia Heron: it's you :)
Fael Illyar: I suppose :)
Caledonia Heron: well, that's what it's going to be anyway
Caledonia Heron: might as well go the direction it's going in :)
Fael Illyar: wb Tahuti :)
Tahuti Thor: ty
Caledonia Heron: ah :) hey there :)
Tahuti Thor: cord came out lol
Caledonia Heron: lol
Faenik: could be
Caledonia Heron: hate it when that happens :)
Fael Illyar: That's something of a guiding principle for me. Go with the flow, perhaps guiding a bit.
Tahuti Thor: objective : to comprehend the present moment
Caledonia Heron: big plus, using forward momentum :)

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Tahuti Thor: imagination is full of thoughts and memories that are NOT n the present moment
Fael Illyar: Yes, quite so
Fael Illyar: although, they are but not really :)
Tahuti Thor: so imagination gets u into trouble if u rely on it too much
Fael Illyar: more like they can be but don't need to be
Caledonia Heron: they are who you are at that moment, so by definition they are the moment
Tahuti Thor: so never deviate too much from present moment
Fael Illyar: imagination is fine if you see it for what it is.
Caledonia Heron: "they" being imaginative thoughts :)
Caledonia Heron: "never"? a loaded word there :)

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Tahuti Thor: ok. like some people hold grudges.....if someone was bad to u 4 months ago ......and today they are nice to you (4 months later)
Tahuti Thor: do u want to bring in the present moment what happened 4 months ago?
Caledonia Heron: that is not the present imo, that is a memory.... imagination is more like a factory of new thoughts, an engine of what could be,.... if anything it is the future
Tahuti Thor: no
Fael Illyar: any thought is now
Tahuti Thor: imagination is never new
Fael Illyar: it might be of past or future
Fael Illyar: but the thought is now
Tahuti Thor: imagination and memory is the same
Tahuti Thor: imagination is your memory only that it is pointed in the future
Caledonia Heron: whatever you're doing now is now, imo
Caledonia Heron: maybe sometimes it is Tahuti
Fael Illyar: the past is a story.
Caledonia Heron: agreed Fael, it's all story I think

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Tahuti Thor: there are no new thoughts......its only your mind arranging it in new patterns
Tahuti Thor: and we call it a new thought
Tahuti Thor: like a unicorn is an imaginative character
Tahuti Thor: but thats really only a mixture of bird wings and a horse
Fael Illyar: the horn is missing :)
Faenik loves wells!
Tahuti Thor: yes and the horn :)
Fael Illyar: (yes, not important)
Tahuti Thor: a rhino maybe lol
Caledonia Heron: I hear you Tahuti - my construct is different
Tahuti Thor: mind only knows the past
Tahuti Thor: how can it go into the future
Caledonia Heron: it does, that's how it is, can't explain how
Tahuti Thor: thats your imagination
Caledonia Heron: sure :)

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Fael Illyar: perhaps, but how do you know it's not your idea that "it's imagination" that is the imagination?
Fael Illyar: well, or both for that matter
Caledonia Heron: I don't
Tahuti Thor: well i reran this subjective experiment over n over
Tahuti Thor: and came up with same result

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Caledonia Heron: it's where art and poetry and beauty live, the descriptive, the how we make each other humble with the beauty of our contributions, the imagined then made real makes an aesthetic of beauty
Fael Illyar: the mind can do what it can, arguing about it doesn't change it :)
Tahuti Thor: emotions have a huge effect on imagination
Tahuti Thor: though is more aware of present than emotions are
Tahuti Thor: emotions have intelligence but sometimes they are unrealistic
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Caledonia Heron: ok, I see your points
Tahuti Thor: so beauty is one of those emotive words
Tahuti Thor: to a thought, beauty and ugly are alike
Caledonia Heron: I can tell you that when I hear a musician put his being into that moment, or see a piece of art that brings me to the brink of tears, or anything expressed as an authentic thing....it is an expression of the being, the nature of being, how we connect to each other and it is imagined and it comes from the imagination
Caledonia Heron: and I am humbled and grateful
Caledonia Heron: for that moment
Tahuti Thor: it is a pleasant experience :)
Caledonia Heron: for that contribution
Caledonia Heron: it's not about pleasant
Caledonia Heron: it's about connection
Caledonia Heron: relationship to being
Caledonia Heron: for me anyway :)

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Tahuti Thor: im only suggestnig that to see our subjective experiences closely
Faenik: could be
Tahuti Thor: we have to keep our emotions calm and tranquil
Caledonia Heron: you can hold what you know and what you feel as separate, non-competing, complementary things
Caledonia Heron: you can be apart from them, step apart from that
Caledonia Heron: and the beauty you experience is a great gift
Caledonia Heron: to yourself
Caledonia Heron: to others when you are able to express it
Tahuti Thor: :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, knowledge and being can be held separately and simultaneously.
Caledonia Heron: yes, very empowering :)
Tahuti Thor: enough for me :)
Fael Illyar: yet, you can't tell each from the other :)
Tahuti Thor: now must meditate
Caledonia Heron: me too - have to take the kiddo to piano :)
Fael Illyar: Have a good meditation :)
Tahuti Thor: have a nice day
Fael Illyar: Ok, have fun Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: thanks for talking about this :)
Fael Illyar: See you both later :)
Tahuti Thor: bye :)

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