2008.08.08 13:00 - Attachments and Compassion

I arrived at the Pavilion wearing my sporty steam-punk suit, because I was feeling formal. This session was a conversation that was comprised of primarily of two threads; attachment and inwardly-directed compassion.

Fael Illyar: Hi Solo :)
Solobill Laville: Well hello Fael!
Solobill Laville: Great to see you
Fael Illyar: You too :)
Fael Illyar: Oh, new clothes?
Solobill Laville: Nah, I dragged 'em out of the closet
Solobill Laville: :)
Fael Illyar: Well, change from the usual still :)
Solobill Laville: Yes, felt like changing it up a bit
Fael Illyar: I've been using this dress and shape and skin for a few days now... maybe it's time to change.
Fael Illyar: ... maybe I'll stick to just switching the shape and skin :)
Solobill Laville: :), I like them all! And changing things up is always good too
Fael Illyar: rather different feeling in some ways :)
Solobill Laville: Avatars, you mean?
Fael Illyar: the way this shape + skin looks like :)
Fael Illyar: actually, I think I'll change clothes too.
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: You could always go formal like me ;)

Gaya joined us.

Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: Hi Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope you've both been well
Fael Illyar: Yes, quite well :)
Solobill Laville: Yes, I have been, and you?
Fael Illyar was too late asking back it seems :P
Gaya Ethaniel: Was feeling a little sombre today with the grey weather otherwise well thank you
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: oh, phonecall
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
Solobill Laville: Yes, we get that too where I live, from February - April.... ;)
Solobill Laville: "cabin fever"
Solobill Laville: grey, cold, and stuck inside
Gaya Ethaniel looks out 'grey most of the time even in the summer...'
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'know the feeling'
Solobill Laville: :)
Faenik: why not?
Solobill Laville: So how are things going with you, Gaya? I haven't been around much (holiday)
Gaya Ethaniel: I noticed you've been away
Gaya Ethaniel: Think I've reached some sort of plateau with my practice somewhat
Solobill Laville: Ah, how so?

Rajah joins us.

Fael Illyar: Hi Rajah
Solobill Laville: Hi, Rajah!
Gaya Ethaniel: There's nothing new except a little dips here and there. No upwards or forwards. Does this make sense?
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Rajah Yalin: hi Fael, hi Bill, hi Gaya
Solobill Laville: Yes, I understand the feeling, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls tell me your experience
Solobill Laville: Hmmmm
Solobill Laville: I think with as much time and energy that we all put into this effort
Solobill Laville: in whatever way we all do in our own way
Solobill Laville: There might be a feeling of expecting too much
Solobill Laville: being a bit too goal oriented
Solobill Laville: I hesitate to say this (as I am with most everthing I say here)
Solobill Laville: Because everyone is on their own path
Solobill Laville: and at their own spot, on their own path
Solobill Laville: But sometimes great expectations can be a big hindrance, depending on your own personal "whys" for practicing
Solobill Laville: Does that make sense?
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel isn't in the right frame of mind for enlightenment today. She's happy to be just happy and content.
Solobill Laville: :)!
Fael Illyar: maybe that's enlightenment :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: Ok, done with the phonecall finally.
Gaya Ethaniel: Well don't think it is. Days like today I'm looking at my practice to relax and improve myself rather than focusing on the ultimate goal.
Solobill Laville: wb
Gaya Ethaniel: wb Fael
Gaya Ethaniel is learning to be compassionate towards herself.

What a wonderful and vital learning that is!  

Solobill Laville: Wow, that is a big one Gaya
Fael Illyar: but attaining the ultimate Goal is realizing there is none :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it is a huge one Solo. It is for me especially.
Solobill Laville: Me too
Faenik: indeed?
Solobill Laville: yes Faenik
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

I spent a good deal of time typing out a thought and noticed Gaya typing as well, so as not to step on her fingers, I stopped and backspaced...

Solobill Laville: (erase)
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Solobill Laville: Go ahead, Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I was just going to say for me, compassion was the missing piece
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure for others it is different
Solobill Laville: I think that's a big discovery Gaya
Fael Illyar: What I realized today is that it's perfectly fine to have attachments.
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls say a little more Fael
Solobill Laville: Yes, please Fael!
Solobill Laville: I've been reading about the attachments discussions with great interest
Fael Illyar: Well, if I had been counting, I would've lost the count on the number of attachments I lost during my trip to the shop.
Gaya Ethaniel: wow...
Solobill Laville: Please, go on, what kind of attachments?
Fael Illyar: well, all kinds of.

Quilty joined us.

Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Rajah Yalin: hi Quilty
Solobill Laville: Hi Quilty!
Quilty Bookmite: Hi All.
Fael Illyar: First time in the time I remember that I actually met strangers eyes in the shop, saw them smile and nodded. Perhaps smiled myself too.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Faenik loves wells!
Solobill Laville: What was the lost attachment in that situation?
Gaya Ethaniel thinks Fael looks radiant tonight
Solobill Laville: indeed!
Fael Illyar: hmmh, I wonder :)
Fael Illyar: it was hard to keep track when they were dissolving too fast.
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: all because I lost the attachment to not being attached.
Quilty Bookmite: Eye contact?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Solobill Laville: I think that sometimes a natural result of the work of reducing attachments is an increase in "natural" compassion
Solobill Laville: Don't know if that applies here or not, but I have experienced that :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls give us an example Solo
Fael Illyar: ah, yes, I think I finally know what this Compassion means.
Gaya Ethaniel: There is a large missing piece between the attachment and compassion
Fael Illyar: quite overwhelming at first.
Solobill Laville: Personally, Gaya, to me it doens't seem like there is a missing piece between them...
Fael Illyar: "You're perfect as you are"
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: so much as when we lose so much unnecessary baggage, the compassion - which was always there - is allowed to express itself
Fael Illyar: and that one was a quote from Battlestar Galactica.
Gaya Ethaniel: no I undertand you Solo but your sentence may not make sense for others. I suppose the 'missing piece' I meant was being kind towards oneself

We have a couple of strands going here.  Sorry to be dense, Gaya, now I understand your point, and yes totally agree.  At a certain point I found that I could not but be kind and forgiving towards myself.  It was either do that or "take my ball and go home" (i.e. stop practicing).  (Gaya: these leaps of connections we are making during discussions possibly demonstrate that we are understanding/doing something without ‘forcing’ but more naturally. It could be only a good thing, Solo). And that self-forgiveness is such a release.  Perhaps that is not a pre-condition for compassion towards others (as I thought) so much as you simply being the first in the direct line of compassion now released to flow through you as its vehicle... (Gaya copies this comment into her diary).

Solobill Laville: The TV show or movie??
Fael Illyar: the new TV show, at least
Solobill Laville: hehe
Quilty Bookmite: One of the great philosophical treatises of our time. :-)
Fael Illyar: the latest season
Solobill Laville: Indeed!
Gaya Ethaniel: wishing good to be done to us as we wish to treat others
Solobill Laville: I must admit I don't know it though...
Solobill Laville: (the BG quote)
Faenik: could be
Solobill Laville: reading...
Solobill Laville: Yes Gaya, I think that being kind to oneself is part of the foundation, and I had to work on that
Quilty Bookmite: It's a recurring theme for me too.
Solobill Laville: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Guess 'we' are perfect - perhaps this is what quote meant
Fael Illyar: It's interesting how the new religion springing up in BSG matches what I discovered myself right now :)
Solobill Laville: oops, yes Quilty, i "have" to work on that (continually)
Fael Illyar: well ok, a few hours ago :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes at times I lose the sight of being compassionate... often a run-in with another person brings compassion back to me. Wish this won't be so necessary in the future and I will be compassionate at all times
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Solobill Laville: Fael, Was that discovery that some attachments are good?

I was going back to Fael's comment earlier about her realization that it is "perfectly fine to have attachments".

Solobill Laville: Gaya, I hope that is the case too...time will tell
Gaya Ethaniel remembers Bunan's 'attachments', Love, Generosity & Integrity
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Fael Illyar: "some attachments are good" line as it is... I'm still not convinced but hearing that is likely part of figuring this out.
Solobill Laville: But losing things like self-loathing and learning to forgive yourself can go a long way, imo
Fael Illyar: all the attachments I've found that might sound like good. Like attachment to feeling peaceful or perhaps attachment to not being attached have been bad traps for me.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Fael Illyar: attachment to non attachment won't help keeping other attachments away.
Fael Illyar: and it will make me unwilling to admit them
Gaya Ethaniel wonders if admittance is pre-requisite to acceptance
Solobill Laville: True
Fael Illyar: it is I think
Faenik: indeed?
Solobill Laville: You have to identify that which you are trying break the attachment to, of course ;)
Solobill Laville: (sorry, I have phones ringing and kids running around...)
Gaya Ethaniel: np Solo
Solobill Laville: To try to tie these two threads together...
Solobill Laville: I've found that on working on non-attachment, and letting go of some of them
Solobill Laville: I have discovered those things that were laying there, that I didn't know about
Solobill Laville: Self-loathing seems harsh, but that is perhaps most true to what I had found within myself
Solobill Laville: So I worked on forgiving myself, which led to
Gaya Ethaniel: It hurts you
Solobill Laville: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Loathing and hating oneself hurts
Solobill Laville: allowing me to discover that compassion resides there, when it is free to flow outward
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: (guilt, self-doubt, self-loathing, are pretty effective barriers...)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: That was an "Aha" moment for me when I discovered that, self-discovery, big time
Gaya Ethaniel: I've realised that if I don't know how to love myself, I cannot love others. I'd closed my 'inner eyes' and didn't realise that I had it in myself, compassion and love
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: I agree with that statement wholeheartedly Gaya

Genesis joins us.

Solobill Laville: Hi Gen!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
Quilty Bookmite: Well said Gaya.
Gaya Ethaniel: If I want to be cared and loved by others, I realised I have to start with myself
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Genesis.
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Quilty!
Fael Illyar: Hi Gen :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Fael!
genesis Zhangsun: Nice outfit :)
Fael Illyar: Thank you :)
Solobill Laville: But, for me anyway, working on those attachments is a requisite step
Fael Illyar: This is the first one I ever bought in SL :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe I'm moving forwards somewhat then Solo
Gaya Ethaniel: upwards and beyond!
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: Just keep on keepin' on Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes effortless effort
Faenik: ah :)
Rajah Yalin: hi genesis
Solobill Laville: The way people climb mountains is one slow step at a time
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Rajah!
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'all journeys start with a first step' Chinese saying
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: The key is to just "keep your feet moving"
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: brb
Gaya Ethaniel: Guess what I worry most is whether I hurt others while learning
Gaya Ethaniel: k
Solobill Laville: back
Gaya Ethaniel: wb
Solobill Laville: Hard to imagine how you'd do that Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel looks up her diary
Solobill Laville: What do you think?
Gaya Ethaniel: I am perhaps hurting them as I try to avoid being hurt.
Gaya Ethaniel: That is something I wrote in my diary today...
Fael Illyar: I think I heard someone say at one time that, "Hurt is good! It makes people get enlightened!"
Solobill Laville: hehe
Fael Illyar: Could've been Isen :)
Solobill Laville: That's one way to look at it Fael
Solobill Laville: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Some ppl are too fragile to take hurts
Quilty Bookmite: just don't set out to hurt people. :-)
Solobill Laville: Again, different paths, different folks
Gaya Ethaniel: Guess I just have to be aware more of what I do...
Fael Illyar: Although, the only way out is through the hurt.
Fael Illyar: the only way to make it stop
Solobill Laville: I'm not so sure it actually ever stops...
genesis Zhangsun: Hmm that is an interesting thought Fael
Fael Illyar: Well, probably not but you'll stop amplifying it yourself.
Solobill Laville: Yes
Fael Illyar: which is pretty much what I discovered today.
genesis Zhangsun: Care to exand on how that is?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes Fael. Stop the wheel from turning the wrong way. :-)
Fael Illyar: oh, right, Gen came after I explained
Solobill Laville: I'm very interested to see how you end up putting this all down in words sometime, Fael
genesis Zhangsun: oh ok sorry
genesis Zhangsun: didn't realize you had already discussed
genesis Zhangsun: will read later in blog
Solobill Laville: There's a quiz in 7 minutes
Solobill Laville: ;)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: I realized it's perfectly it's perfectly fine to have attachments.
Quilty Bookmite: I've got to go in 6. :-)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Solobill Laville: No make-ups Quilty!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: :)
genesis Zhangsun: hmmm thats interesting so enjoying riding the wave :)
Fael Illyar: and as a pretty direct result, lost more of them than I could've counted during a trip to shop.
genesis Zhangsun: as we discussed last time
Gaya Ethaniel thinks holidays are good... 'look how relaxed Solo is tonight'
Solobill Laville: ahhh
Solobill Laville: yes :)
Solobill Laville: I liked your wave metaphor, Gen
Gaya Ethaniel: So what attachments have you got left Fael?
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Solobill Laville: (I need an Excel spreadsheet to organize and sort mine)
genesis Zhangsun: lol
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Gaya Ethaniel needs Access
Fael Illyar: I don't know :)
Solobill Laville: ah, yes, a database!
Solobill Laville: of attachments
Fael Illyar: whatever the count. It is. :P
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
genesis Zhangsun: I use Google excel so I can access them whenever I want ;)
Gaya Ethaniel laughs 'neat genesis'
Solobill Laville: and then delete them as appropriate!
Fael Illyar: :)
Solobill Laville: nice
Quilty Bookmite: Does the desire to list them constitute another attachment?
Solobill Laville: :)
Gaya Ethaniel opens up her Access 'hm... who listed all these?!'
Solobill Laville: Only if your attached to Microsoft (or Apple)
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: Alas
Solobill Laville: Be gentle with yourself Gaya
Quilty Bookmite: I use this.http://www.tadalist.com/ It's good for shopping too. :-)
Solobill Laville: And keep up the fight Fael!!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you Solo
Gaya Ethaniel: Same to you
Solobill Laville: ty Quilty
Fael Illyar: I'm taking a pause today :P
Quilty Bookmite: Well said Solo.
Fael Illyar: ... or well, that's what I thought :P
Solobill Laville: ...right... ;)
Quilty Bookmite: got to go now. YOu can start the quiz. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.
Fael Illyar: Goodnight Quilty :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: :)
genesis Zhangsun: night
Solobill Laville: Bye Quilty
genesis Zhangsun: so is it quiz time?
genesis Zhangsun: I'm afraid I might have to walk out ;)
Solobill Laville: Yes, and you won't do well I'm afraid Gen....
Solobill Laville: LOL!!!
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Solobill Laville: too funny
Gaya Ethaniel: What's the prize?
Fael Illyar: :)
Faenik: why not?

I leave, with my attachements and steam-punk suit, and Dakini arrives, with her skull necklace of decapitated attachments...

Solobill Laville: I must attend to my little ones
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you for the conversation. Good day Solo
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: Take care Solo!
Fael Illyar: Goodnight Solo :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Dakini :)
genesis Zhangsun: Sorry i could only catch the tail end
genesis Zhangsun: but glad to see you :)
Solobill Laville: Me too Gen!
Dakini Rhode: hi :)
Rajah Yalin: hi Dakini
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Dakini!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Solobill Laville: Hello and Goodbye Dakini!
Gaya Ethaniel: Did you have a good day on your birthday Dakini?
Dakini Rhode: I did, Gaya, thank you for asking :)
Solobill Laville: I've got to get out of here before her scary skull necklace gives me the heebie-jeebies!!!
genesis Zhangsun: oh wow Dakini! I have not seen you for a long time! Nice look :)
Dakini Rhode: So nice to see everyone :)
Fael Illyar: Ah, happy birthday Dakini :)
Solobill Laville: Happy belated!
Fael Illyar: (yes, I'm late)
Dakini Rhode: lol I'm here to shatter illusions, Bill :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Solobill Laville: Ahhhhhh!!!
Solobill Laville: :)
Dakini Rhode: these skull represent attachments which have been cut away :)
Solobill Laville: Bye all!
genesis Zhangsun: bye
Dakini Rhode: decapitated attachments :)