2008.08.22 07:00 - Letting Go of NYC

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    Adams Rubble was the guardian and the comments are just Rubble

    I arrive first and wander around the pavilion. Before I can get back and get seated, Maxine and Pema arrive and have settled in. I sit down between them. We spend the first half hour or so in playful banter, enjoying each other's company

    Pema Pera: Hi Adams, hi Maxine!
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pema, Adams
    Adams Rubble: Hi Pema, Hi Maxine :)
    Pema Pera: Good morning to you both!
    Maxine Walden: 'evening to you, I believe
    Pema Pera: It's 11 pm here in Kyoto . . .
    Adams Rubble: Thank you and I gues good evening to you
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Pema Pera: and it's my sixth session in a row!
    Pema Pera: thanks to jet lag :>)
    Maxine Walden: really?!!!
    Adams Rubble: I am somewhere around there too
    Pema Pera: I guess Adelene has the record so far
    Maxine Walden: what is the record?
    Adams Rubble: I just was too late for the Thursday 1:00 am
    Pema Pera: *if* I wake up early enough tomorrow, I might go all the way to ten or so . . . we'll see
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: oh, my, not sure what to say about these 'marathons'
    Maxine Walden: due to jetlag
    Adams Rubble: and knees
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, and knees too
    Maxine Walden: Adams are you in jetlag as well?
    Adams Rubble: No I am in knees
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: oops, correction: my fifth in a row, not sixth yet
    Pema Pera: mistake
    Maxine Walden: oh, haha
    Maxine Walden: re the knees, not the number of sessions in a row
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: whether hospitalized or trapped in a jetplane seat, what's the difference?

    Corvuscorva joins us

    Maxine Walden: hospitalized?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Corvusacorva
    Pema Pera: well, home trapped
    Pema Pera: Hi Corva!
    Adams Rubble: Not really hospitalized. Care Center
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello, Pema, Maxine, Adams.
    Adams Rubble: Just for a few hours
    Maxine Walden: oh, my, sorry Adams did not know that
    Adams Rubble: And I already am better than I was before
    Maxine Walden: hi, Corvuscora
    Maxine Walden: Glad you are, Adams
    Adams Rubble: It is a miracle
    Maxine Walden: a miracle?
    Adams Rubble: It feels like one
    Maxine Walden: ah...miracles are good things
    Adams Rubble: yes :)
    Adams Rubble: Just have a little problem with side motion
    Maxine Walden: ah...
    Adams Rubble: With all ther sessions, I haven't done that much
    Maxine Walden: not sure I understood that last comment, Adams
    Adams Rubble: I haven't been doing my seeing exercises
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh!
    Maxine Walden: oh, of course, thanks
    Adams Rubble: Maybe I needed a little break--who knows?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adams Rubble: I am anxious to get started again
    Maxine Walden: sometimes the body takes charge...yes, can imagine the wish to begin again
    Adams Rubble: It has been good seeing people I haven't seen for awhile :)
    Adams Rubble: or AVs :)
    Pema Pera: :>)
    Maxine Walden: right, absences are absences even for a few days
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Pema Pera: yesterday I learned a lot about crows and ravens and other such birds from Corvuscorva and Isen
    Adams Rubble: And I learned about eating jellyfish from Gaya
    Maxine Walden: interesting
    Pema Pera: So ravens are more individualistic, right, compared to crows?
    Adams Rubble: hmmm. That makes sense
    Adams Rubble: Crows come in bunches
    Maxine Walden: ravens rule the roost, as it were?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs. That seems to be true of each.
    Adams Rubble: saith the raven nevermore
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.

    I change the topic to a historical tidbit with unexpected results

    Adams Rubble: Pema, did you know the first American embassy was in Holland?
    Pema Pera: no, I didn't
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Why?
    Adams Rubble: John Adams esctablished it
    Maxine Walden: was it, Adams, was that John Adams' doing?
    Adams Rubble: And the Dutch
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, looking for money for the American Revolution debts?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh?!
    Pema Pera still feels we should get New Amsterdam back . . . .
    Maxine Walden: and the Dutch then were big bankers
    Adams Rubble: yes, but while doing that, it was a bit of a coup for Adams
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: The dutchhad so much money then...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Why a coup?
    Adams Rubble: Most of the money was coming from the French
    Adams Rubble: Because the new US needed recognition
    Corvuscorva Nightfire glares at Pema..."you cannot have it!"
    Maxine Walden: oh, and the Dutch were more likely to give recognition than the French?
    Adams Rubble: :) I missed that
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. "that makes sense...having an embassy in an important country...it ws a coup for him and for the US."
    Pema Pera: we'll see, Corva . . . I'm not at liberty to divulge our plans
    Adams Rubble: The US was up against international politics. For various reasons the French were not ready for that step
    Adams Rubble: And the Spanish would not recognize even a delegate
    Maxine Walden: oh, looks like you know US history very well;
    Corvuscorva Nightfire starts rummaging under mats to make sure "the plans" are not hidden there.
    Adams Rubble: I like history but I am ready Cokie Roberts' "Founding Mothers"; little tidbits like that one appear. But Roberts is not a historian and often makes value judgments which are questionable. Still it is interesting. History not usually syudied
    Pema Pera wondering whether to reveal his sleeper status
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snorts.
    Adams Rubble: reading
    Pema Pera whistles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Do you study history, then?
    Maxine Walden: sleeper status? secret plans?
    Pema Pera: shhh
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs. Pema's takeover of NY.
    Maxine Walden: oh, sorry, nearly gave it away...
    Adams Rubble: I was a history major in college and then switched to art history
    Pema Pera: why do you think I live near Amsterdam Avenue?
    Maxine Walden: wonderful field, art history
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: Yes maxine
    Maxine Walden: split between Pema's secret plan to give NY back to the Dutch and Adams field of art history, two interesting topics
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.

    the Dutch in New Jersey win out over Art History as the topic (a curious comment since it would be hard to imagine studying art history without including the Dutch)

    Adams Rubble: New Jersey also has much Dutch history
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: That I didn't know.
    Adams Rubble: Yes the Dutch settled in much of the middle atlantic states region
    Adams Rubble: Big settlements in northern and central Jersey
    Pema Pera: Princeton was started by the Dutch
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It was?!
    Adams Rubble: So was Rutgers
    Maxine Walden: really, Princeton by the Dutch?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Huh.
    Pema Pera: you see, me working in Princeton and living near Amsterdam Avenue is no coincidence . . . .
    Corvuscorva Nightfire leaves Princeton and Rutgers to Pema but keeps NY.
    Maxine Walden: as universities?
    Pema Pera: Several streets in Princeton are called after Dutch towns
    Adams Rubble: Rutgers was Queens. The Dutch broke off from Kings (Columbia)
    Pema Pera: and the coat of arms of Princeton University -- orange!
    Pema Pera: organge tiger
    Pema Pera: *orange
    Maxine Walden: did not know that.
    Pema Pera: mean street in Princeton is called Nassau Street
    Adams Rubble: Rutgers has a prominant statue of William the Silent
    Pema Pera: Royal Dutch family name
    Adams Rubble: and the Dutch Reformed seminary
    Maxine Walden: very interesting stuff
    Maxine Walden: ( I have about 7 min before I have to go)
    Adams Rubble: Funny, pema and I trying to outdo each other with Dutch facts
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: The words on the coat of Arms of Rutgers is "may the sun of justice shine also in the West" -- My alma mater is Utrecht University, with the coat of arm text "may the sun of justice shine upon us" -- the pictures look the same, and Rutgers was a kind of sister university of Utrecht
    Pema Pera: your turn, Adams!
    Adams Rubble: Ah, I did not know that
    Adams Rubble: haha
    Adams Rubble: you got me
    Maxine Walden: interesting...yes Adams hard to top that

    What could I say? As long as Pema stayed with Princeton facts, I had a chance...

    Pema Pera: i wanna get NY not you
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: and not Princeton either, Cor
    Maxine Walden: divvying up the goodies?
    Pema Pera: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire wrinkles her nose and resumes looking under mats for plans.
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: can't read them, they are in Dutch
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: geheime plannen voor de overname van New York City
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know experts...and Dutch isn't that hard, really..
    Pema Pera: werkelijk?
    Adams Rubble: Watch out for someone with a wooden leg
    Pema Pera: hahaha!!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire starts trying to decifer what is written here....gives up in disgust and puts it in the mail for the experts.
    Pema Pera: oh no !!!!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Well it is hard.
    Maxine Walden: plans discovered?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no...just a few notes..I really think it's Pema's packing list.
    Adams Rubble: Just give them to the CIA, they'll get it wrong
    Maxine Walden: lol
    Pema Pera: probably my list of favority cafes in NYC
    Pema Pera: most of which have closed in the last half year grrrrr
    Pema Pera: very disappointing
    Maxine Walden: nice playing around this morning, gang. Have to go. See you again soon
    Adams Rubble: bye Maxine
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods sadly about that.
    Pema Pera: see you Maxine!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye! Maxine!
    Pema Pera: I live on the upper west side
    Maxine Walden: bye all

    Maxine departs and Pema tells us about the closing of coffee shops in NYC

    Pema Pera: and the four most interesting places within five minutes walking have closed in the last year
    Pema Pera: rather sad
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Pema Pera: rent is getting too high
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that is sad.
    Pema Pera: house prices have tripled in the last ten years, more than tripled in fact
    Pema Pera: ridiculous and unsustainable
    Pema Pera: cafes are replaced by banks
    Adams Rubble: Yes, in NJ too but they weren't as high to begin with
    Adams Rubble: Good stores being closed and replaced with useless ones
    Pema Pera: Edgar's Cafe is still there -- where Edgar Alan Poe wrote "Raven" -- you see, back to corvids!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Adams Rubble: Poe seems to have written everywhere
    Pema Pera: I know how that feels!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: I type everywhere
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I thought Poe was a rather retiring kinda guy, though?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: not one I would have imagined travelled much.
    Pema Pera: well, the coffee shop was a farm back then
    Pema Pera: outside Manhattan
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh!!!!! I see.
    Pema Pera: later the city overtook the place
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that makes much more sense.
    Pema Pera: 84th and Broadway
    Adams Rubble: But his house in Philly was in the city; don;t know about Baltimore
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have been to NYC about 4 times in my life. Each time I knew a little more about it's history...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and I have loved seeing the layers on layers of history on each street.
    Pema Pera: especially in the South
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Pema Pera: the tip of Manhattan
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. The financial district.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that area is one of my favorites.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the docks.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: another favorite.
    Pema Pera: did you ever take the ferry to Staten Island?
    Pema Pera: from there?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: No.
    Pema Pera: nice, especially at night
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I imagine.

    But there is a time to get serious and Pema finds yet another way to sum up PaB

    Pema Pera: if I may change the topic . . . trying to get away from the secret plans a bit further . . .
    Corvuscorva Nightfire watches him change the subject with narrow suspicious eyes.
    Pema Pera: Corva, did you get a chance to play with the 9-sec explorations, perhaps
    Pema Pera: or did I ask you recently already?
    Pema Pera trying to remember all those sessions he attended lately
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire shrugs. You haven't. I have played..a little bit...but I am not...well...not likely to do so much.
    Pema Pera: that's fine!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Pema Pera: we have no duties and obligations here
    Pema Pera: it is all play :)
    Adams Rubble: You might be surprised Corva :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins. Good.
    Pema Pera: but you may want to try, just for fun
    Pema Pera: hehe, Adams!
    Pema Pera: shhhh
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Adams. Who knows what will rub off...we shall see.
    Pema Pera: it doesn't take much time -- just a few times a day, stopping for a few seconds, less time than brushing your teeth
    Pema Pera: and you may be surprised how effective it is
    Adams Rubble: depending how well you brush :)
    Pema Pera: according to reports by many people here
    Pema Pera: hehe, well . . . .
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Pema Pera: Adams, do you remember how it was, to do the 9-sec thingy the first few times?
    Adams Rubble: No I am afraid not. That was three months ago :)
    Pema Pera: looooong time in SL!
    Adams Rubble: in PaB
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Pema Pera: I don't know whether anybody gave you some background, Corva
    Pema Pera: the basic idea is to drop what you think you am, but are not, in order to see what you really are
    Pema Pera: shooting holes in your view of reality
    Pema Pera: a few every hour
    Pema Pera: more effective than once a day perhaps
    Pema Pera: does that make any sense?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: some.
    Adams Rubble can see where that might not sound like it makes sense but it does
    Pema Pera: May I ask, Corva, what your views are? Of reality, of life, or whatever :)

    Nuct comes and sits down

    Adams Rubble: Hello Nuct
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Nuct Parx: Hi.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't know if I have any views...I tend to explore and see what happens...
    Pema Pera: Hi Nuct!
    Nuct Parx: What up?
    Pema Pera: we're chatting about the nature of reality
    Pema Pera: and about taking over New York City
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I grew up with biologists...and that is, scientific method...close to what I use to explore.
    Nuct Parx: Why not try and take over SL?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: of course I make lots of assumptions about stuff too.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: I also like to use the scientific approach
    Pema Pera: basically in anything I do -- but in a generalized way
    Pema Pera: not quantitative or mathematically
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Pema Pera: I think the basis of science is a freedom to explore wildly and a responsibility to test critically
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: well...hypothisize, try, evaluate.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Pema Pera: those two together, very liberal and very conservative, give science its strength
    Pema Pera: science is the ultimate bipartisan game
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and, I forgot, have others evaluate also. REpeat.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Pema Pera: yes exactly, Cor
    Nuct Parx: Ya.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Doesn't stop me from being human, though...making assumptions...forgetting to do those things.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Like any religious practice.
    Pema Pera: sure
    Adams Rubble: No, of course not Corva :)
    Pema Pera: can't life too fanatically

    Nuct offers his views

    Nuct Parx: Ya. I blame "God/Jesus" for all my mistakes.
    Pema Pera: interesting move, Nuct!
    Pema Pera: can you say more?
    Nuct Parx: Ya.
    Nuct Parx: Like.....
    Nuct Parx: Why did God put us on this earth just to go to hell and or
    Nuct Parx: make mistakes?
    Pema Pera: btw, may I ask, have you been here before?
    Pema Pera: we have a blog http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
    Nuct Parx: No and cool.
    Nuct Parx: I also have a site.
    Pema Pera: where we list our dialogues -- do you mind appearing on there too?
    Nuct Parx: HeavyM.Net
    Pema Pera: ah, thanks!
    Pema Pera: okay to include your part of the dialogues on there as well, in the blog?
    Nuct Parx: Yes.
    Pema Pera: thanks!
    Nuct Parx: I do wish to join it.
    Pema Pera: you can just come here
    Nuct Parx: Sometime in the night.
    Pema Pera: we gather four times a day
    Pema Pera: no need to be a member
    Nuct Parx: Cool.
    Pema Pera: 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm SLT
    Nuct Parx: Ok.
    Pema Pera: as for God putting us on Earth, that's a big topic . . . . .
    Nuct Parx: I know.
    Nuct Parx: He controls us so he makes us do bad?
    Pema Pera: as for our group, we are not religious in any specific way
    Nuct Parx: Hm.
    Pema Pera: but some of us are more into Buddhism, some Christian, some agnostic, etc
    Pema Pera: some Hindu
    Pema Pera: others humanist or secular
    Nuct Parx: I don't belive in God and I kindof worship satan.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Interesting.
    Nuct Parx: I have slipknot on my ITunes.
    Nuct Parx: Let me turn some on....
    Adams Rubble: Satan without God...sort of like butter without bread
    Pema Pera: we generally don't use voice here Nuct
    Nuct Parx: I know but I like to stream my music.
    Nuct Parx: Over the net.

    Pema resumers discussion about the PaB practice and scientific method

    Pema Pera: Coming back to science, Corva
    Pema Pera: what we are doing here
    Pema Pera: Play as Being
    Pema Pera: can also be presented as an investigation of a working hypothesis
    Pema Pera: a scientific investigation
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. I see that..it is one of the things I am finding interesting here.
    Pema Pera: one way to formulate the working hypothesis is:
    Pema Pera: All is complete -- Being is complete
    Pema Pera: or:
    Pema Pera: Time and Identification are illusions
    Pema Pera: and there are various other formulations
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Pema Pera: all related to Being
    Pema Pera: Now the way a scientists investigates a hypothesis is in two steps:
    Pema Pera: 1) to get all the facts on the table and look at them
    Pema Pera: 2) to use those to test the hypothesis
    Nuct Parx: Well imma go now. See y'all.
    Pema Pera: in our case, it is 1) that is the most interesting, namely to try to *see* what we are talking about
    Pema Pera: by Nuct!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Nuct
    Adams Rubble: bye Nuct
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, understanding this.
    Nuct Parx: May I add y'all as my friends?
    Pema Pera: the testing, 2) is inherent in the seeing
    Pema Pera: I generally wait a while, Nuct, to become friends
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Why don't you just come on back a few times and see if you like us?
    Pema Pera: already have 200 or so . . . .
    Nuct Parx: Ok.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins...see ya!

    Nuct is gone

    Pema Pera: one way of characterizing the strength of science is to say
    Pema Pera: that a working hypothesis implies no belief and no disbelief
    Pema Pera: keeping a hypothesis open
    Pema Pera: Can Being be used as a resource?
    Pema Pera: Don't just belief it, and don't disbelieve it either
    Pema Pera: believing would let you initially believe in the wrong thing
    Pema Pera: disbelieving would shut you off for seeing
    Pema Pera: "Being can be a real resource" is one working hypothesis
    Pema Pera: or "causality is an illusion" is a nice other one
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Pema Pera: we talked about that at a previous session, Adams, 12 hours ago, I think it was after you left.
    Adams Rubble: hmm. must have been
    Pema Pera: I even tried to sing a song, hehe
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: but that was at the later part of the session

    Then Gaya completes our group

    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
    Adams Rubble is surprised how many different ways Pema can sum up PaB
    Adams Rubble: Hi Gaya
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Gaya!
    Pema Pera: it came out spontaneously, after a lot of talking
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: That was agood one, pema but they all usually are :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Pema Pera: yes of course
    Pema Pera: but no song yet so far for me :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snorts.
    Adams Rubble: I liked the part about not believing or disbelieving
    Adams Rubble: Maybe I heard that before but now I can see it
    Adams Rubble: the dangers of each
    Adams Rubble: I have done both
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am not sure that...hypothesis is really the right word for where this begins.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: though open mindedness is important.
    Pema Pera: where would you begin, Corva?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire shrugs.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think...for me...9 seconds is about trying.
    Adams Rubble: I don;t know that I began with a hypothesis except that I had a goal to be a better person
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: then evaluate...then hypothesize.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. to Adams.
    Adams Rubble: exploration first
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. really, that is how science works, I think.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we stumble first.
    Adams Rubble made big stumbles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Pema Pera: yes, I probably should have listed three stages for a hypothesis: 0) clearing the table surface ; 1) putting what you can see on there; 2) the critically testing
    Pema Pera: so yes, we start with 0)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes.
    Pema Pera: the 9-sec instructions at first are simply dropping
    Pema Pera: stopping
    Pema Pera: letting go
    Pema Pera: but Play as Being is more than emptying, looking for emptiness
    Pema Pera: you could say that it is the more positive other side of the coin, from emptiness
    Adams Rubble feels full
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera feels sleepy
    Pema Pera: it is past midnight here
    Pema Pera: I'd better turn myself in soon
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adams Rubble understands
    Pema Pera: great talking with y'all!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: you too, pema. bye :)
    Pema Pera: bye Gaya, Cor, Adams!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and with you, thank you.

    Pema leaves to rest up for next session and we begin a warm discussion about our interests in literature, mythology, and music

    Adams Rubble: Corva, your pick list looks interesting
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. "thank you."
    Gaya Ethaniel looks at Corvi's profile again
    Adams Rubble: What is the "Nevermore"?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: a friend
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: s joke
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: she made a group...and made it my title.
    Adams Rubble: That's a nice friend :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adams Rubble: I was looking for a Poe group :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
    Adams Rubble: on you profile :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am sorry to have disappointed.
    Adams Rubble: No, it is not that I want to be on one, I was just expecting one :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah...I see! :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like poe and his stories...but I like many stories about crows and ravens.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so....no poe group.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: And cat
    Adams Rubble: Who else wrote about crows and ravens other than Shakespeare?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Gogh painted one...
    Adams Rubble: hmmmm
    Gaya Ethaniel: In literature... not so sure
    Adams Rubble: Can;t picture that
    Adams Rubble: I'll have to look
    Gaya Ethaniel: One before he died...
    Adams Rubble: Ah
    Gaya Ethaniel googles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: there are stories in mythologies.
    Adams Rubble: I crash when I try to use other software with SL
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ows_(1890).jpg
    Adams Rubble: Ah, OK
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Native americans, celts, greeks.
    Adams Rubble: Yes, OK
    Adams Rubble: are they used as spirit guides?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm. I'm not sure.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: In a movie they were.
    Adams Rubble: or just harbengers
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have not seen the movie "the crow...but i think that was part of the story.
    Adams Rubble: No I haven't seen it either
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: In places, they are like...foxes or briar rabbit?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sort of tricksters?
    Gaya Ethaniel loves the film...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Odin has two crows.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you do?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: tell me about it?
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders...
    Gaya Ethaniel: The storyline... and it's visually stunning... the song about rain... you remember the song?
    Gaya Ethaniel wonders who is Odin
    Gaya Ethaniel: Can't rain all the time...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think that is the line
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Odin is the Norse "father" god.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: wisdom/war and stuff.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Odin would also appear on the battle-field, sitting upon his eight-legged horse Sleipnir, with his two ravens, one on each shoulder, Hugin (Thought) and Munin (Memory), and two wolves(Geri and Freki) on each side of him.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: wikipedea
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think there are often ravens after battles...picking up the pieces.
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks Corvi
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: they are scavengers.
    Adams Rubble: Was it Odin who picked up the souls to go to Valhalla?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the valkyrie..with him supervising.
    Adams Rubble: Ah, and the crows as scavengers...interesting imagery
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel feels like reading Tolkien again...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yeah.
    Adams Rubble feels like listening to Wagner
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahah
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles... not a Wagnerian as such
    Gaya Ethaniel: You like the Ring cycle Adams?
    Adams Rubble: Yes I do but not as my favorite kind of music
    Adams Rubble: I used to know a painter who painted to it and I photographed his paintings
    Adams Rubble: So I got a big does then
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. "but it includes 'the ride of the valkyrie?'
    Gaya Ethaniel is intrigued why Adams had sudden urge to listen to Wagner
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... that one
    Adams Rubble: Because of the Norse mtyhology, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Tad pushy... that one <smile>
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Wagner was really into that..wasn't he.
    Adams Rubble: My favorite part is Sigfried's funeral
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: I see
    Adams Rubble: I love the solemn rhythms
    Gaya Ethaniel went to see Tristan and Isolde... got real bored which is unusual at operas...
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Rubble: It is not an uplifting theme -
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Rubble: The dark side :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: But I love M Butterfly... so theme's not so important... just not a big fan of Wagner perhaps
    Gaya Ethaniel: Dark side <smile>
    Adams Rubble: One never knows what starts to grow on one unexpectedly :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So true that Adams...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. true.
    Adams Rubble: It makes life interesting :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have you found your preferences to music changed dramatically over the years Adams?
    Adams Rubble: Not dramatically. I have just aded new interests. Come back to things I enjoyed years ago and listen with a new sense of understanding. I have only begun to appreciate opera in the last ten years
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Somehow.. people do come to love opera as they get older...
    Adams Rubble: Yesterday one of Bach's Brandenburg concertos was being played on the call waiting at the doctor's office. It was something I hadn;t heard in a long time. It was great. Didn;t mind waiting
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: the bassoon/oboe duet
    Gaya Ethaniel doesn't so much enjoy Four Seasons on call waiting... overused this piece...
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: I still like to hear that. I don;t listen it to it myself much anymore. I like Vivaldi's Glorias
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh god.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah beautiful piece... Glorias
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I can just imagine the bassoon on call waiting.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ? Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snorts...
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sorry...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the glorias are beautiful.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: is beautiful?
    Adams Rubble: are :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire tries to figure out English grammer.
    Adams Rubble: many of them
    Adams Rubble: although if one thinks of them as one then is :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=uzx2BOMo9tY
    Adams Rubble: My Glorias are on two CDs
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you like Mozart's Requiem too Adams?
    Adams Rubble: yes Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Which version do you listen to?
    Adams Rubble: youtube is great for getting in touch with new musical interests
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Rubble: I don;t know Gaya, I have different media
    Adams Rubble: I have records :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I have three diff CD and my fav is conducted by Karl Bohm
    Adams Rubble: and tapes
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: We get to buy the same muic over and over again :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: too true.
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=09z3NK5t5BM
    Adams Rubble: Well, it was very nice chatting with you. I need to go now. Take care Corva and Gaya. bye :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

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