2009.07.07 19:00 - A Strawberry Can Be An Opening

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi there Eos!
Eos Amaterasu: You are in Go Player mode?
Pema Pera: at least my avatar is . . . I wish I had time to play more, I love the game.
Pema Pera: Have you played?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, have played it a bit.
Eos Amaterasu: Was thinking of the notion of "aji", that some stones have "life"
Eos Amaterasu: even though you don't know what that is or will be
Pema Pera: yes, there is a lot of real philosophy in there . . . .
Pema Pera: and there is talk of "stones walking" even though they don't move -- just the idea growth and potential and influence
Eos Amaterasu: Ah - I hadn't heard of stones walking :-)
Eos Amaterasu: What about rolling?
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: I was thinking of that in relation to your recounting how you sometimes solve or work at problems
Eos Amaterasu: identifying the pieces and then letting them loose
Eos Amaterasu: so that eventually they may, or not, take some kind of shoape
Pema Pera: yes, just watching, taking it all in, and letting it tell you what the meaning is
Eos Amaterasu: in a sense that allows the spirit, anima(us)e, in things to come out
Pema Pera: yes, something like that

Imagery for spirit 

Pema Pera: our culture, though, has no imagery for that
Pema Pera: it may be the only culture lacking such notions, an anomaly in human culture
Eos Amaterasu: Does contemporary Japan have that?
Pema Pera: the Greek had the muses whispering in their ears
Pema Pera: Japan used to have it, of course, and quite a bit still survives in a kind of half-conscious way
Pema Pera: Japanese culture is much less either-or, black-or-white, than the European/American one is
Pema Pera: I meant "modern culture" as in science dominated to the exclusion of other ways of knowing
Pema Pera: and of course Japan is now more and more influenced by that way of thinking as well.

Language

Pema Pera: Even so, expressions like "chi", in Japanese "ki", are so interwoven in the language, people have no choice but using it :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pema, Hi Eos
Pema Pera: "watch out" or "be careful" literally is said in Japanese as "use your chi" . . . .
Eos Amaterasu: HI SophiaSharon
Pema Pera: "ki wo tsukete", 気をつけて
Pema Pera: HI Sophia!
Eos Amaterasu: I like that - use your chi
Eos Amaterasu: Use the force, Luke!
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: but just an everyday expression in Japanese, nothing special here
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, we have hidden stuff in our language and objects
Pema Pera: or if someone likes something or someone they say that someone's chi enters that person or object
Pema Pera: also, the word for "humanity" is "nin-gen" two characters meaning "person" and "in between"
Pema Pera: humanity is what exists in between people
Pema Pera: etc, the whole language forces a very different way of thinking
SophiaSharon Larnia: in your observation, Pema, is this reflected in other languages that you know?
Pema Pera: each language has its built in views, yes, but all other languages that I know are European languages, from Latin and Greek, to Dutch, German, French and English, so the distinctions are much less -- but still, sure, each language has its own unique proverbial expressions, and sometimes special constructs as well
Eos Amaterasu: there are nuances, ratios, metaphorical positionings in a language that may be inexpressible in others
Eos Amaterasu: Somehow I think of faces as a way to visualize this, with the features having each their range of possibilities, and each person an integral but also ongoing expression of such
Pema Pera: so you can "read someone's face" -- nice idea!
Eos Amaterasu: That shapes a "how" of their going through life
SophiaSharon Larnia: this incorporation of chi in everyday expression, this is found in just non european languages?
Pema Pera: I don't know of any example in Europe, and I only know Japanese. I expect it is incorporated in Chinese as well, but I'm not sure
Pema Pera: In india the equivalent would be "prana" -- it may be in there somewhere in Hindi
Pema Pera: Of course in Europe the word "spirit" may come closest
Pema Pera: and yes, we talk about "team spirit"
Eos Amaterasu: societally, chivalry
Pema Pera: though we normally think about that as purely an abstract idea
Pema Pera: "chi-valry", Eos :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eos Amaterasu: related to cheval, horse, related to lungta, windhorse (tibetan) :-)
Pema Pera: ah!

Hung up in 'appreciate'

Pema Pera: May I ask your opinion, Eos and Sophia, about the approach we usually take in PaB, with respect to our explorations, our forms of practice? Our default ideas is to use the 9-sec to "drop what you have in order to see what you are". And sometimes I have suggested working with a simple sentence, like "appreciate the presence of appearance (APA). Would you like to see more emphasis on such practical aspects of explorations? Different forms of practice, or more in-depth discussions, or more sharing of reports, or more forms of joint practice during a session or . . . ?
Pema Pera: Hi Hana!
SophiaSharon Larnia: (is thinking)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Hana!
Hana Furlough: hi everyone~
Eos Amaterasu: HI Hana
Eos Amaterasu recalls that SophiaSharon is a visual person
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, Pema, I have to start by thinking about what each word means, as I think others have to do
SophiaSharon Larnia: extremely so Eos
Pema Pera: yes, thinking and tasting and letting whatever wants to express itself then express itself . . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: i understood 'presence' and 'appearance', in my own way
SophiaSharon Larnia: but got a bit hung up on 'appreciate'
Hana Furlough: i think we all understand these in our own way
Pema Pera: oh, there are many ways, Sophia -- and it is good to start exploring in your own way!
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Pema Pera: can you say more about "appreciate", Sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: as others have said many times, to appreciate is to see it and let it pass through you, without interpretation, to thinking, tasting, and letting it reveal Itself. That was my internal conflict.
Pema Pera: and did that conflict resolve itself to some extent?
SophiaSharon Larnia: to some extent, although i see polarity in most things
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have trouble with this
Eos Amaterasu: ! :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: to appreciate is to accept it all, as is
SophiaSharon Larnia: (but am not sure if this is right)
Pema Pera: yes, we are all struggling and exploring -- we all have our trouble understanding this in further detail, so welcome to the club, Sophia!
Pema Pera: accepting can mean many things
Hana Furlough: yeah exactly
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Pema Pera: even if something is clearly wrong, you first have to accept THAT it is what is, including the sense you have that it is wrong
Pema Pera: and only then can you start to meaningfully find a way to improve it -- if that is possible and if you feel that it is part of your path to do so
Pema Pera: accepting is NOW, and what you do with it the next moment is a different question
Eos Amaterasu: the conflict is also experience (should you choose to accept it :-)
Hana Furlough: but it's really hard to change something in a way that is truly open and compassionate
Pema Pera: yes, Eos!

Unmoored in No Self Now

Pema Pera: yes, we can only do that by changing ourselves first . . . . or even better, seeing there is no self, that's the fastest way :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have explored this concept of no self, and have felt unmoored in the now, if that makes any sense
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, hard to explain, ungrounded in the now
Hana Furlough: what about the idea that the self is not what we think it is, like that it is somethig much bigger
SophiaSharon Larnia: hard for me to do both
Eos Amaterasu: the now is kind of slippery
Eos Amaterasu: you can't hold on to touch, and you can't hold on to go
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive had to shake myself a lot lately, to be in the Now
Hana Furlough: me too
SophiaSharon Larnia: hard to concentrate
Pema Pera: it's an ongoing challenge for all of us . . . . that's where the continuity of PaB helps all of us
SophiaSharon Larnia: its somewhat frightening, actually
Eos Amaterasu: being ungrounded in the now?
SophiaSharon Larnia: being so ungrounded that i have to shake myself to be in reality, to what is going on right now
SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking a lot
Pema Pera: do you do some kind of yoga, or tai chi, or forms of meditation working with breath or the like?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have meditation alot, it has become easy again, i do visualizations, it is easy for me
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pema Pera: do you feel that that helps you to find grounding?
SophiaSharon Larnia: no, easier to float away
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have been discovering things about myself this way, that i wouldnt have otherwise
Pema Pera: Yes, I can see how visualization can have that side effect. Perhaps you can balance it with other forms of working more directly with the body, like yoga or tai chi, or meditations focusing on breathing? Or forms of walking meditation, just going for a stroll every day in a meditative way?

Departures

Pema Pera: oops, lunch time call here -- have to join my colleagues!
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Pema!
Pema Pera: I'm happy to continue this conversation, next time we meet!
SophiaSharon Larnia: Have a great lunch Pema!!!
Pema Pera: Bye for now
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: b4n
Hana Furlough: bye pema~
SophiaSharon Larnia: Pema is right of course
Hana Furlough: i find yoga really helpful
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have to go too :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: take care Eos and hana, talk to you later!!
Eos Amaterasu: Ah, we'll lose the visualization of you!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hahaha
Hana Furlough: lol
Hana Furlough: have a great day sophias~

A strawberry can be an opening

Eos Amaterasu: When you say that the self can be something much bigger, what do you mean, Hana?
Hana Furlough: oh i guess i mean that what we are is so big that it can't be contained in just a little person
Hana Furlough: i think it's like an affirmative way of talking about no-self
Hana Furlough: how do you feel about it?
Eos Amaterasu: I was wondering how you experience that.... it does seem to be both a bigger "self" and not a substantial self
Eos Amaterasu: there's a lot of plasticity in how we can be
Hana Furlough: yeah it kind of feels like being everywhere and everything
Eos Amaterasu: and we seem to come from a deep field of possibility
Hana Furlough: but that kind of feels like a really lofty statement
Hana Furlough: yes! possibilities
Eos Amaterasu: which means not inherently any one thing
Eos Amaterasu: but any distinct thing distinct in that openness
Hana Furlough: yeah it can't be just one thing, because it feels like anything and everything
Eos Amaterasu: the interesting thing is that that applies to oneself :-)
Hana Furlough: you mean like what we think we are?
Eos Amaterasu: yes, every little story about yourself
Hana Furlough: exactly
Eos Amaterasu: every wish and every fear
Hana Furlough: but the challenge is to remember and actualize this
Hana Furlough: how do yo do it?
Eos Amaterasu: remembering is hard
Eos Amaterasu: it is hard
Eos Amaterasu: little gaps, between doing this and doing that
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes you catch yourself in the act
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes the color stops you
Hana Furlough: what is the color?
Eos Amaterasu: Oh, the color of something you see, the emotional textural feel of music, .....
Hana Furlough: oh right
Eos Amaterasu: I think we all have our "practices", as well as little contemplations and exercises, as Pema was saying
Hana Furlough: yeah definitely
Hana Furlough: but do you find it hard to do this when you're in the thick of things, so to speak?
Eos Amaterasu: Oh yes, I can get "carried away", so to speak
Hana Furlough: me to
Eos Amaterasu: but stillness and activity are not opposed when it comes to such awareness
Eos Amaterasu: being is presenting in active appearance as well as in appearance that leaves an opening
Hana Furlough: so how do we get through that opening?
Eos Amaterasu: a strawberry can be an opening
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Hana Furlough: wow nice
Eos Amaterasu: I think APA, appreciating the presence of appearance, can be as simple as that
Eos Amaterasu: just a little moment
Eos Amaterasu: doing that repeatedly, as the 9 secs every 900 secs would do, can be profound
Hana Furlough: i agree
Eos Amaterasu: in the sense that it might unsettle you, or the youness of you
Eos Amaterasu: which is maybe what Sophia Sharon was talking aboiut
Eos Amaterasu: but doing that repeatedly takes remembering
Hana Furlough: yeah and instances arise when you can't let go
Hana Furlough: like if we're talking to someone, driving a car, etc
Eos Amaterasu: but the more you do it the more you're coming from that already
Eos Amaterasu: mabye humor provides a space :-)
Hana Furlough: yeah i think we need humor -- serious can be quite scary
Eos Amaterasu: good humor, good spirit, good chi
Hana Furlough: absolutely
Hana Furlough: i should get back to work
Hana Furlough: it's been really nice chatting with you
Eos Amaterasu: Time for bed, here
Eos Amaterasu: Thank you, Hana, bye!
Hana Furlough: good night!
Hana Furlough: bye!