2009.07.13 13:00 - Constructions

The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stim :)
Stim Morane: Hi Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you today?
Stim Morane: well, it's a hot day here ... relatively speaking.
Stim Morane: I'm feeling like a mole
Stim Morane: And you?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :)
Gaya Ethaniel: It's cooler recently. Hoping for another heatwave heheheh. I'm good thank you.
Gaya Ethaniel: While we wait for others, can I ask for an advice?
Stim Morane: well, I may not have any comments, but sure ...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel thinks.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya, Stim:)
Stim Morane: Hi Scathach
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm thinking that I will have more and more new experiences as I continue to practice.
Stim Morane: Hi pila
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Stim, Gaya and Scath
Gaya Ethaniel: Some are obviously unfamiliar ... and wonder how to experience them without feeling too worried about.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pila :)
Stim Morane: are you thinking of the "reflection" example you mentioned to me?
Gaya Ethaniel: And ... I had a dream in which I was thinking about the dream within while dreaming ... kind of sustained way.
Gaya Ethaniel: Which is new ...
Pila Mulligan: :)
Stim Morane: yes, a normal development
Stim Morane: so are you a bit worried about such things?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok ... phew
Pila Mulligan: that seems to be an affimrative answer
Gaya Ethaniel: I was just trying out your suggestion - try to experience without moving or doing.
Stim Morane: I see
Stim Morane: well, a short excursion into meditation practice isn't too likely to be disturbing on an on-going basis.
Stim Morane: But if you are planning on staying with it, it's like embarking on an adventure for 10 lifetimes.
Stim Morane: there are so many things that will pop up and pull you around.
Stim Morane: And dry spells too ...
Scathach Rhiadra: wb, that was quick return:)
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry crashed ... did I miss much?
Stim Morane: Hi again, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: "10 lifetime adventure" was the last I saw.
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :)
Stim Morane: would someone send a little note to Gaya re the last few lines?
Scathach Rhiadra: ok
Mickorod Renard: Hi Guys
Stim Morane: thanks
Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mick :)
Stim Morane: Hi mick
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
Mickorod Renard: scath
Gaya Ethaniel: ty Scath :) caught up now.
Stim Morane: Gaya, my point was simply that there are so many things that will happen ... including "nothing".
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ok :)
Stim Morane: sometimes you will wish for a break from the strangeness or newness, sometimes you will wish for something new to come forward.
Stim Morane: It's a long investigation
Gaya Ethaniel: ok I understand Stim.
Stim Morane: a sense of humor and patience are important
Stim Morane: patience with the strangeness, patience with the absence of strangeness
Gaya Ethaniel: Humour is something that is elusive to me at times ...
arabella Ella: hiya
Stim Morane: Hi, arabella!
Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara
Gaya Ethaniel: I did actually laughed at myself during the dream - it was my funeral and I realised that it came about because of 'no-self' concept I've been 'playing' with. But afterwards [the day after, thinking back], I kind of felt a bit weird about it.
Stim Morane: yes, that's understandable
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
Stim Morane: similar things will happen many times, on various levels
Gaya Ethaniel: ok ... knowing that these experiences aren't uncommon helps.
Stim Morane: people often tease me about how often I say that some experience is "normal".
Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: It helps especially when you say it Stim :) Thank you.
Stim Morane: you're raised a very large question, with many aspects
Gaya Ethaniel: You mean ... what am I ... what is this?
Stim Morane: well, the matter of dealing with all the feelings and attitudes that arise in various cases.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... yes.
Gaya Ethaniel: It was interesting to compare how I viewed during the dream and afterwards.
Stim Morane: ?
Gaya Ethaniel: I was able to laugh ... not sure why I couldn't afterwards.
Stim Morane: that is amusing
Gaya Ethaniel nods ...
Stim Morane: and sad, too, of course.
Gaya Ethaniel nods ...
Stim Morane: Life is not easy, and dealing with the meditation process is very challenging.
Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
sophia Placebo: greetings
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello sophia :)
arabella Ella: hiya sophia
Mickorod Renard: hi Sophia
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sophia
Stim Morane: Hi sophia!
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm glad I can come here and talk about it though :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
sophia Placebo: hello Tarmel
Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi tarmel
Stim Morane: Hi, Tarmel!
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: hello, sorry I am late!
arabella Ella: hiya Tarmel
Stim Morane: It's OK, Tarmel, we're practicing patience today.
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Tarmel Udimo: :) I am learning slowly:)
Stim Morane: me too ... VERY slowly
sophia Placebo: hello Sophia
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello SophiaSharon :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi S S
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello SophiaSharon
Pila Mulligan: hi SophiaSharon
Tarmel Udimo: Hi Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi everyone, sorry to pop in late
arabella Ella: hiya SophiaSharon
Stim Morane: Hi SophiaSharon
Gaya Ethaniel: So the key is not to get spooked ^^;;;
Stim Morane: the key is to accept being spooked, and roll along ...
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok
Gaya Ethaniel: Think I get that :)
Pila Mulligan: as a description of how to integrate these expereinces, I've alsways liked Joseph Campbell's idea of a personal myhtology
Pila Mulligan: we create our own myhtology of life
Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
Pila Mulligan: and it is entirely valid, even with that reference
arabella Ella: could you say more Pila?
Gaya Ethaniel: It is in fact fun to imagine what all these experiences may mean regarding life in general.
Pila Mulligan: well, earlier Gaya referred to a dream and Stim's reference to being spooked evolved in part from that -- mediation practice often has some associated expereinces that are new, and life without meditation also has some spooky moments
Pila Mulligan: this is how myths originate, these expereinces
Pila Mulligan: they myth is to create a context as to what all these experiences may mean regarding life in general
arabella Ella: is this like the social construction of reality to some extent?
Pila Mulligan: yes, and also a personal construct
Pila Mulligan: they interact regulalry -- the social construct and the personal construct
arabella Ella nods
sophia Placebo: what should one do while he is patient ?
Tarmel Udimo: it does make life richer to see it filtered through a personal mythology
Tarmel Udimo: and yet I can't help thinking that perhaps if 'seeing clearly' is arising moment by moment do we need a mythology or whay to explain it?
Tarmel Udimo: *why
Stim Morane: it's an Hawaiian thing ...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: good question Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
Tarmel Udimo: I'm into personal mythology:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :0
SophiaSharon Larnia: oops meant :)
Tarmel Udimo: must be the tropical b/ground:)
Gaya Ethaniel: Having basics are good though - how things may be ... whether it's constructed by own or drawn from others' experiences. Otherwise I'd feel like groping in the dark.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive wondered why we embellish our stories too
Mickorod Renard: ego
Tarmel Udimo: all of life is constructed on a story(ies) espacially religion
Pila Mulligan: (joseph campbell lived in hawaii)
sophia Placebo: :)
Stim Morane: see!
Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
Tarmel Udimo: (ahh -films are based on the hero's journey and it works)
Tarmel Udimo: (by joseph cambell - it gives us hero's to follow and worship)
arabella Ella: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: He said according to wikipedia "follow your bliss" - how nice :)
Tarmel Udimo: we do all need reference points Gaya, we all stumble in the dark:)
Mickorod Renard: without a good story there would be little will to live
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)
arabella Ella: stories help us to give sense and meaning to our thoughts and actions and those of others ... it is human nature to try to make sense of things
arabella Ella: isnt it?
sophia Placebo nods
sophia Placebo: it helps to make the frame of the picture
SophiaSharon Larnia: by using social contstructs, it seems to me also that we are always interpreting experience
Tarmel Udimo: nods, rather than seeing/expereincing it fully, I agree sophia
Tarmel Udimo: and it takes place on such subtle levels sometime
sophia Placebo: well that what sense do , making frames
Mickorod Renard: do we construct our future?
Mickorod Renard: in our minds?
arabella Ella: Stim you earlier used the expression 'patience with the absence of strangeness' ... could you say more please?
Stim Morane: we come to require it in the course of meditation training ... but in fact we must become reconciled to long periods of "nothing special"
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pila Mulligan: ergo, patience :)
Mickorod Renard: is that because we are generally not conditioned in a way to be patient naturaly for meditation?
Gaya Ethaniel: Is 'nothing special' different from feeling 'flat' or do you mean the same?
arabella Ella: it sounds really difficult to me ... perhaps because some of us are scared of 'boredom' ... of 'emptiness' ... of 'repetitivity' ... of the 'mundane'?
Stim Morane: good point, Gaya ... there are many distinct cases.
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... ok
Stim Morane: but if we have become addicted to new adventures or experiences, even "nothing special" feels "flat"
Gaya Ethaniel thinks.
Mickorod Renard: I must admit to having an adition for adreneln,,and find outside that buzz rather mundane
Mickorod Renard: adiction*
arabella Ella: do you see this 'craving' for more whatever ... power, cash, challenges, the new ... as something negative in today's western world Stim?
Pila Mulligan: part of life seems to be learning how to experience unfamiliar things without feeling too worried about it, taking things in stride, but most of life seems to be what I'd call the mundane constant, just getting along doing nothing special -- patience in waiting for excitement may then yield to contentment with the mundane
Mickorod Renard: thats what I need Pila
Stim Morane: The point of meditation and contemplative practice is not special experiences but "what is". However, on the way to that openness, all the other cases and the need for framings etc mentioned here figure too
Stim Morane: Modern life is definitely pushing stimulation ...
arabella Ella nods
Tarmel Udimo: (obvioulsy not as 'old' as Pila & I Mic)
Stim Morane: :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: What is not old?
Pila Mulligan: young
Mickorod Renard: ;)
sophia Placebo: :)
Tarmel Udimo: that's right:)
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: gah SL is making me look gullible ^^;;;
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Mickorod Renard: grin
Stim Morane: I know what you mean, Gaya.
Gaya Ethaniel guffaws ... no way Stim.
SophiaSharon Larnia: this medium does have a way of doinf that
Gaya Ethaniel: You look fine :)
Stim Morane: Gotta go. Thanks, everyone!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you. Have a nice day Stim :)
Pila Mulligan: bye Stim
Stim Morane: Bye!
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Stim!
sophia Placebo: bye stim
arabella Ella: bye Stim thanks!
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Stim
Mickorod Renard: nite Stim
Tarmel Udimo: missd him:)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,i was too slow as well
Tarmel Udimo: :)
Mickorod Renard: ;(
Tarmel Udimo: you mic -too slow:)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,well,,in im too
Mickorod Renard: being a man,,not good at multi tasking
arabella Ella: :)
Gaya Ethaniel giggles.
Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
arabella Ella: why Mick?
arabella Ella: is multi tasking only for females?
Mickorod Renard: so its said
Pila Mulligan: a Beatles lyric has started floating around my otherwise vacant brain: love is old, love is new, love is all, love is you
Gaya Ethaniel: Don't buy it Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
Gaya Ethaniel: aaww ... nice one Pila :)
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Mickorod Renard: thats nice Pila
arabella Ella: easy cop out Mick?
arabella Ella: like if i were to say ... only men are good at ironing shirts?
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: well thats def not true
arabella Ella: he he
arabella Ella: u sound sure about that?
Mickorod Renard: I am,,but i can if I have to
arabella Ella giggles
Mickorod Renard: thats the diference
arabella Ella: sounds a bit like females and flat tires to me ... car tyres of course :)
arabella Ella: altho help is always a phone call away
Gaya Ethaniel: So ... can I ask? What's your personal mythology about life? Do you have one?
Mickorod Renard: whos that to gaya?
sophia Placebo: that was the question in my head too !
Gaya Ethaniel: To anyone :)
arabella Ella: i dont think we can isolate personal mythology from social mythhology IMHO
Mickorod Renard: I had one once,,but it was blown to pices
Gaya Ethaniel is being curious again :)
Gaya Ethaniel: oh ... that must have been shattering [no pun intended] experience Mick.
sophia Placebo: i had one this morning
Mickorod Renard: yes?
sophia Placebo: all women are godesses and all men are demons
arabella Ella: :)
Gaya Ethaniel giggles.
Mickorod Renard: I have them in my dreams,then i wake up and realise they were myths
Tarmel Udimo: that's a big one sophia
Mickorod Renard: yes,the same mythes u have sophia
sophia Placebo: the same mick :)
sophia Placebo: ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: or all med gods, and all women temptresses
Mickorod Renard: well almost
Mickorod Renard: well thats not a myth
SophiaSharon Larnia grins
arabella Ella giggles
Tarmel Udimo: yes it feels like women are always being portrayed as being temptresses
arabella Ella: ehrm ... all men are slaves ... all women are ... dot ... dot ... dot
Mickorod Renard: we pretend to be slaves
Gaya Ethaniel guffaws.
sophia Placebo: i told they are demons
Tarmel Udimo: well there you go sophia
Mickorod Renard: but note that real slaves dont get thier shirts ironed by someone else
Tarmel Udimo: obviously told this by a man?
Tarmel Udimo: heheh Mic
sophia Placebo: me?
Gaya Ethaniel: wow ... this is way too funny :)
sophia Placebo: no i made it up today morning
arabella Ella: i wonder why shirts still have to be ironed in this day and age :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Well I'm afraid I need to get some tea then bed :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day/night all :)
sophia Placebo: bye gaya
Tarmel Udimo: ahh, sorry thought someone had told you that:)
Pila Mulligan: bye Gaya
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Gaya:)
Tarmel Udimo: bye Gaya
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too bye Gaya
Mickorod Renard: its to keep women in their place
arabella Ella: nite Gaya
Scathach Rhiadra: night*
Mickorod Renard: bye Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel throws the cushion to Mick before leaving :)
arabella Ella: :)
Mickorod Renard: he he he
arabella Ella: (tiptoes out ... bye ... nite!)
Mickorod Renard: waves quietly
sophia Placebo: bye mick bye ara
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have to go too, take care everyone :)
sophia Placebo: bye sophia
Tarmel Udimo: yes me too, great chats folks - see yu all later:)
Pila Mulligan: bye arabella
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Tarmel
sophia Placebo: bye tarmel:)
Tarmel Udimo: waves
Pila Mulligan: bye SophiaSharon
Pila Mulligan: bye Tarmel
Scathach Rhiadra: I must be off too, good night all
sophia Placebo: night scath
Pila Mulligan: bye Scath
sophia Placebo: bye pila
Pila Mulligan: bye sophia