2009.07.19 19:00 - Myth

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

SophiaSharon Larnia, Vajra Radikal join me for the the group discussion

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it is a comfy group for many

Vajra Radikal: just the fact of discussing the nature of reality with a lion was cool

stevenaia Michinaga: hello

Vajra Radikal: g'day steve

stevenaia Michinaga: welcome as a new Guardian

Vajra Radikal: thanks hope i get the hang of it

stevenaia Michinaga: are you hosting any meetings yet?

Vajra Radikal: nope as a matter of fact i probably need a guardians meeting first to know what is expected

stevenaia Michinaga: well there are always helpful hints on the wiki and mentors abound here

Vajra Radikal: i can tell you i feel honored at being designated a guardian

stevenaia Michinaga: smiles

stevenaia Michinaga: it's a very interesting group of people who attend these meetings

Vajra Radikal: yep i have enjoyed those meetings i have attended

Vajra Radikal: very diverse group

stevenaia Michinaga: has kept my interest for more than a year

Vajra Radikal: any particular subjects you enjoy

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: just reaching to places I feel comfortable with

Vajra Radikal: res sophia

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Sophia

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Steven, Hi Vajra :)

stevenaia Michinaga: you a re new to SL, Vajra, how did you find this group

Vajra Radikal: basically hunting sites about buddhism and meditation

Vajra Radikal: then i found a link in one of them into Kira and PaB

Vajra Radikal: and got hooked since the 1st time

SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it is a comfy group for many

Vajra Radikal: just the fact of discussing the nature of reality with a lion was cool

Vajra Radikal: that was my 1st meeting :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pema

stevenaia Michinaga: yes three dee has that affect

stevenaia Michinaga: hello pema

Vajra Radikal: hi pema

Pema Pera: Hi Sophia, Vajra, Steve!

Pema Pera: and hi, fish and flowers :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: haha

stevenaia Michinaga: looks like lotus

Pema Pera: our little pond is getting quite crowded!

Vajra Radikal: btw where did that lotus come from

SophiaSharon Larnia: Moon from the afternoon I think

Pema Pera: from Moon, it says, when you click on it -- no surprise :-)

stevenaia Michinaga: Quen did the fish on friday

Vajra Radikal: good symbol the lotus

Vajra Radikal: beauty arising from the murky waters of mental poisons

Pema Pera: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: I just returned from a weeklong beach vacation of reading, building sand castles and watching the dauphins swims

SophiaSharon Larnia: nice Steven!

Vajra Radikal: great! where at?

Vajra Radikal: I on the other hand will probably miss my vacation including the meet up with the huichol shaman

http://www.shamanism.com/Huichols/Huichol_Home.aspx

Vajra Radikal: 2 much happening at work

stevenaia Michinaga: the very south of New Jersey, Cape May Point, also know as "Exit 0"

stevenaia Michinaga: who is huichol shaman?

SophiaSharon Larnia: (smiles at Steven... I know that exit)

Vajra Radikal: the huichol are an indigenous tribe from central mexico

Vajra Radikal: i was supposed to go to a meet up with their shaman

Vajra Radikal: I've been told about their nature myths and was interested in knowing more about them

stevenaia Michinaga: do you study Myth?

Vajra Radikal: what about you pema and soph any vacations coming up=

Vajra Radikal: i do love studying about myths

SophiaSharon Larnia: none for me :)

Vajra Radikal: especially after i had the chance of reading joseph Campbell's work

SophiaSharon Larnia: I like tracing the commonalities in different cultural myths

Pema Pera: my work is my vacation, mostly :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: lucky! ha

Vajra Radikal: soph have you read the hero's journey

Pema Pera: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: I found that building sand castles but me in touch with impermanence as the tide came in, in a direct was that was quite lovely. Yes the sands are just relocated doing new things elsewhere

stevenaia Michinaga: *Yet

SophiaSharon Larnia: a long time ago Vajra

SophiaSharon Larnia: ago*

--BELL--

jeena Cyberstar: oh sure thanx

Vajra Radikal: hi jeena welcome

SophiaSharon Larnia: (but forget most of what I have read over time ) :) Myths do follow a similar pattern.

stevenaia Michinaga: welcome Jeena have you been here before?

Pema Pera: Hi Jeena!

jeena Cyberstar joins us

jeena Cyberstar: thanx

jeena Cyberstar: hello all

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Jeena

stevenaia Michinaga: *here

SophiaSharon Larnia: what interests me too, are the common symbols used

Vajra Radikal: on the subject of myths the commonality probably arises from the fact that those symbols address

Vajra Radikal: some very common needs in human nature

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes

SophiaSharon Larnia: drawn from a subconscious well

SophiaSharon Larnia: archetypes, etc

Vajra Radikal: however i do find that myths are dealt with in different fashion in the orient than in the west

Vajra Radikal: the east is happy looking at myths as metaphors and the west looks at them

Vajra Radikal: in a more radical and literal way

SophiaSharon Larnia: i see your point

stevenaia Michinaga: you mean, for instance the bible as myth>

SophiaSharon Larnia: middle eastern myths are quite literal on the surface

stevenaia Michinaga: which some take more literally than others

Vajra Radikal: yes for example nobody discusses whether or not avalokitesvara existed

Vajra Radikal: it is not important

Vajra Radikal: the importance is in the message

Vajra Radikal: the whole point of the myth is conveying a message

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes

stevenaia Michinaga: nods

Vajra Radikal: yet in middle easter myth we spend more time proving or disproving the bible than actually discussing the essence of the message

jeena Cyberstar: haha me too

SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles * even

Pema Pera: I think that the very notion of "existence" takes on a quite different sense when you go deep into the kind of experiences that are relevant here . . . . and in Christian mysticism and Sufism, for example, the great mystics and Sufis have quite a different outlook on existence than what you normally read and hear about Christianity and Buddhism; much closer in fact.

Pema Pera: I meant to say "Christianity and Islam", sorry

Vajra Radikal: could you elaborate on the sufi perspective

Pema Pera: When they talk about God and the world, much of what they say is close to the way Buddhist talk about the world

Vajra Radikal: any 1 care 4 some tea?

SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at Vajra... I have some here somewhere :)

Vajra Radikal: i need to research on sufism

jeena Cyberstar: sure that will go nice with my soda

jeena Cyberstar: j/k

SophiaSharon Larnia: interpreting appearance

Pema Pera: I'll have to return to RL, nice talking with you all!

stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema

SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Pema

Vajra Radikal: bye pema

Pema Pera: hello and goodbye Eos!

jeena Cyberstar: see ya :)

Pema Pera: and bye everyone!

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Eos

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos :)

Vajra Radikal: hi eos

SophiaSharon Larnia: (brb)

Eos Amaterasu: HI Sophia, hi Vajra, Stevenaia, jeena

--BELL--

jeena Cyberstar: oh thanx vajra

jeena Cyberstar: nice

SophiaSharon Larnia: we were talking about myth Eos

Eos Amaterasu: Ah...

stevenaia Michinaga: and what can be found within the myth

jeena Cyberstar: would someone refresh or put a memory about eos?

stevenaia Michinaga: a story, a lesson, a meaning

jeena Cyberstar: so why myth?

stevenaia Michinaga: I seem to have a very talkative teacup

Vajra Radikal: the interesting thing about myths is why do wee need them at all

Vajra Radikal: you seem thirsty

Vajra Radikal: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: words are clumsy we need to express convey information that is difficult to express

Eos Amaterasu: because it's the only way to tell the truth?

stevenaia Michinaga: history comes in many forms, this may be one type of oral history with a cultural lesson

Eos Amaterasu: it our own story

Eos Amaterasu: *it's

jeena Cyberstar: that's no myth then :)

Eos Amaterasu: that's all myth then :-)

jeena Cyberstar: lol

SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

Eos Amaterasu: to hit the point you have to myth the point

Vajra Radikal: the prob with myth is that we immediately assume it as a fib or a lie

jeena Cyberstar: wow

Vajra Radikal: when it is neither true or false

SophiaSharon Larnia: science in part looks through the myth

jeena Cyberstar: so then we must not seeing what we think we see

Vajra Radikal: it's just a metaphor

jeena Cyberstar: ok tell me what a metaphor is to you

Vajra Radikal: yet science is to a certain respect flawed

Eos Amaterasu: science looks to and from the myth

stevenaia Michinaga: yet science used metaphor to explain itself often

Vajra Radikal: science has limitations

Eos Amaterasu: a metaphor is my love's red lips

jeena Cyberstar: sounds literal

Vajra Radikal: kije heisenbergs uncertainty principle

jeena Cyberstar: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

stevenaia Michinaga: a short answer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

jeena Cyberstar: yes but that answer is boring

stevenaia Michinaga: a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in "A mighty fortress is our God."

SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been seeing things lately as appearance, so myth is an attempt to explain these appearance in language that people can understand, but language can be a limited form of communication

stevenaia Michinaga: not my definition, BTW

Eos Amaterasu: metaphor is related to analogical nature of being, and so is a linguistic fractal of it

Vajra Radikal: however metaphor is great at attempting to describe the transcendent

Eos Amaterasu: or the mundane

jeena Cyberstar: i guess what I'm getting at is language and how we interpret differently because our realities have a different view so how can anything be seen exactly the same way by all people...so maybe is why we use metaphors?

stevenaia Michinaga: that is much of the purpose of us being here

SophiaSharon Larnia: why i like to look at commonalities

jeena Cyberstar: and why i like to look at differences

Eos Amaterasu notes that use of fractal in that sentence was metaphoric

jeena Cyberstar: exactly

jeena Cyberstar: hehe

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes the differences say much too

Eos Amaterasu: vive les differences

jeena Cyberstar: to me is the heart of all wars

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: the heart of all wars is ....

Eos Amaterasu: ?

jeena Cyberstar: misunderstanding

Eos Amaterasu: unshared metaphor?

jeena Cyberstar: yes

jeena Cyberstar: i think :)

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the differences and the words

SophiaSharon Larnia: appearance interpreted differently

jeena Cyberstar: how we view and interpret

Eos Amaterasu: the ratios of our experienced realities are different

Eos Amaterasu: ratios - also the mythic counterparts of ratios

jeena Cyberstar: the internet helps :)

Eos Amaterasu: or hurts

SophiaSharon Larnia: can you explain rations to me?

SophiaSharon Larnia: ratios*

Eos Amaterasu: length of hair, colour, texture, arrangement, etc

SophiaSharon Larnia: ok

Eos Amaterasu: axes of flexibility

Eos Amaterasu: plus my less powerful graphics card does not let me see what you see

SophiaSharon Larnia: or boundaries?

jeena Cyberstar: exactly

Eos Amaterasu: and boundaries, yes

SophiaSharon Larnia: ok

Eos Amaterasu: the story you project around yourself shapes boundaries

SophiaSharon Larnia: but these are filters

jeena Cyberstar: social and value driven boundaries

stevenaia Michinaga: wonder is the separation lies with lack of patience and time to learn to understand

jeena Cyberstar: starts at birth

jeena Cyberstar: so education is best cure

jeena Cyberstar: self education lifelong

stevenaia Michinaga: or to listen

jeena Cyberstar: definitely

Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia, the separation can also lie in not willing to sit/be there with one's own stuff

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Steve, listen and stay open to see

Eos Amaterasu: give myself 9 secs, give someone else 9 secs :-)

stevenaia Michinaga: always amazed how difficult that can be for some

Eos Amaterasu: it's easy to forget!

SophiaSharon Larnia: it is difficult for me, until i just realized it is all appearance !

SophiaSharon Larnia: grins

Eos Amaterasu: ^_^

jeena Cyberstar sips and the wonderful tea

Eos Amaterasu sees the SophiaSharon Experience, live!

SophiaSharon Larnia: (blushes)

SophiaSharon Larnia: I don't know where to step

jeena Cyberstar: this is one bottomless cup

Eos Amaterasu: being as a bottomless cup

SophiaSharon Larnia: or a sideless cup

jeena Cyberstar: lol

SophiaSharon Larnia: or a 'cup' :p

Eos Amaterasu: or a timeless cup

jeena Cyberstar: "my cup runth over"

SophiaSharon Larnia: a collection of vibrating atoms that appear as a cup

stevenaia Michinaga: non-being as an empty cup

jeena Cyberstar sings "i'm a little tea cup short and spout.....here is my handle...."

jeena Cyberstar: or something like that haha

SophiaSharon Larnia: what ius poured out

jeena Cyberstar: too long ago

jeena Cyberstar: lol

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: I always lied that line from the Beatles' "Penny Lane": though he thinks he's in a play, he is anyway

SophiaSharon Larnia: nothing is poured out

Eos Amaterasu: *liked

Eos Amaterasu: **

jeena Cyberstar: lol

SophiaSharon Larnia turns into a teacup

Eos Amaterasu: I don't think we can get away from myth

SophiaSharon Larnia: no i don't think so either

jeena Cyberstar: not until a true global conscience

jeena Cyberstar: conscious?

Eos Amaterasu: even then...

SophiaSharon Larnia: until there are no appearances

jeena Cyberstar: like in the matrix?

stevenaia Michinaga: there are always lessons to be learned from myth that cannot be seen any other way

Eos Amaterasu: there area always "no appearances", in the absolute sense

Eos Amaterasu: not contradiction with there always being appearances

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thought that after i pressed enter :))

jeena Cyberstar: i think time to explain and everything could be understood

jeena Cyberstar: but we would die before we finish

jeena Cyberstar: so yes we need metaphors

Eos Amaterasu: meanwhile to see a world we need to see a grain of sand

jeena Cyberstar: so true

stevenaia Michinaga: I started tonight returning from that very sandy beach

SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm glad you made it home ok

SophiaSharon Larnia: i hope

stevenaia Michinaga: would rather have not left :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: ahhh yes

Rowan Masala joins us

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Rowan

jeena Cyberstar: and why is that?

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Rowan

stevenaia Michinaga: another week of seeing those grains of sand would have been lovely

jeena Cyberstar: hello rowan

Rowan Masala: Hi Sophia, all

Eos Amaterasu: :-)

SophiaSharon Larnia: or letting them blur together in your vision and just being there

jeena Cyberstar: oh you must of been on vacation lol

stevenaia Michinaga: wb Vajra

SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Vajra

jeena Cyberstar: wb vajra

Eos Amaterasu: web v

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, Jeena

Vajra Radikal: thanks

Vajra Radikal: A power outage

SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no

stevenaia Michinaga: where are you from Vajra?

SophiaSharon Larnia: so now have to reset all the clocks

Vajra Radikal: mexico city

Eos Amaterasu: Must take my leave, thanks, all

Rowan Masala: 'night, Eos

stevenaia Michinaga: bye Eos

Vajra Radikal: bye eos

jeena Cyberstar: bye eos

SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eos

jeena Cyberstar: thanks for conversation

Vajra Radikal: so what's the current topic

Vajra Radikal: ?

SophiaSharon Larnia: Me too, bye Steven, Vajra, Jenna, Rowan :)))

Vajra Radikal: bye soph

Rowan Masala: bye Sophia

stevenaia Michinaga: thanks for joining us

SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you!!

stevenaia Michinaga: and I too must go

jeena Cyberstar: alright sophia good night to you and thanx for the welcome

Vajra Radikal: bye then steve

Rowan Masala: bye all

jeena Cyberstar: bye stevenaia thanx again

Vajra Radikal: bye rowan

stevenaia Michinaga: see you all again I'm sure

jeena Cyberstar: hmmm just you and I ?

Vajra Radikal: what about you jeenna