2009.07.11 19:00 - Watching the Same Elephant

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: slow rezzing cushions look kind of funny here
    Pila Mulligan: how are you?
    Pema Pera: yes, SL seems slow -- even though I'm on a very high speed internet today in Tokyo, odd
    Pema Pera: oh, fine, enjoying my life :), and how about you?
    Pila Mulligan: just curious, what is the connection speed?
    Pila Mulligan: fine also thanks
    Pema Pera: don't know exactly, but I'm now on an ethernet cable, very high transfer rate of big files
    Pila Mulligan: I read stories about the astounding speeds some people get in Europe and Asia
    Pila Mulligan: The Us seems to lag here
    Pema Pera: yes, even in Manhattan many neighborhoods *still* have no access to optical fiber . . .
    Pema Pera: . .. including hours, on the lower Upper West Side . . . .
    Pema Pera: so we have to make do with telephone hook up, what's it called, the new type
    Pila Mulligan: DSL?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: I had that before the rasinfrest
    Pema Pera: since cable, which was fine at first, got slower and slower
    Pila Mulligan: pretty fast
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: I visited a few of the open sims earlier this week -- SL open source of private servers -- it is interesting
    Pila Mulligan: on*
    Pila Mulligan: have you seen them?
    Pema Pera: yeah, the New World, away from government -- yes, some of them
    Pila Mulligan: all free
    Pema Pera: like emigration from Europe to the Americas
    Pila Mulligan: you can have a region to do with as you please
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: the new frontier
    Pila Mulligan: wihtout indigenous people
    Pema Pera: without quarrels with natives already there :-)
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: great minds think alike
    Pila Mulligan: well, that's a compliment :)
    Pema Pera: both ways!
    This was the first case during this session where Pila and I simultaneously typed a different phrase about an almost identical idea; it would happen again several times during this hour.
    Pema Pera: talking about your thoughts, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: I've given up on trying to grok quantumm physics though
    Pema Pera: you mentioned a while ago the possibility of starting RL PaB groups
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pema Pera: and as you know, I responded with great enthusiasm
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pema Pera: have you thought or talked more about that possibility?
    Pila Mulligan: just that it will be an interesting experiment, and like anything new will probbaly involve some adaptation as it progresses
    Pema Pera: yes, for sure
    Pila Mulligan: there is an inherent need in modern life for more sense of community
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: SL fills that need
    Pila Mulligan: to some dgree
    Pema Pera: yes and yes
    Pema Pera: great to have it, but not sufficient
    Pila Mulligan: lacks the perosnal dimension
    Pema Pera: lacks some of the personal dimensions
    Pila Mulligan: although there is *something* there, it is not real presence
    Pema Pera: seems to almost amplify others
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is interesting to try to characterize it -- I have been unable to do so
    Pema Pera: in some ways almost "superreal", but different
    Pila Mulligan: it is akin to lucid dreaming with your shoes on
    Pema Pera: I think that some people whom I've gotten to know pretty well in SL, before meeting in RL, I might not have gotten to know so well if I had only met them through RL from the beginning
    Pema Pera: hahahaha
    Pema Pera: yes, I get the idea
    Pema Pera: I don't know, it's just a guess
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I have heard that from mother epople too, Pema -- sL as an opener ofr new relationships thatmay have initially failed in RL
    Pila Mulligan: other people*
    Pema Pera: the very fact that you really have to focus on what someone chooses to divulge, like a poet writing a piece of poetry, is interesting
    Pila Mulligan: should make for aninteresting retreat too
    Pema Pera: yet at the same time people also divulge a lot more than they think
    Pema Pera: because they have to think on their feet -- pauses and hesitation shines through too
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and there is probably a somewhat diminished fear level for the very shy
    Pila Mulligan: maybe
    Pema Pera: so yes, I agree, it's a very complex question
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: Stim puts on the brakes when people in his workshop try to press him to accept that SL=RL for his teachings
    Pila Mulligan: his conservative apporach there has merit
    Pema Pera: but not only for the shy -- we all have to make quick decisions whom to spend more time with and whom not, if we live in a busy world where we meet lots of people, I know I have to -- and in SL the criterion is somehow different
    Pila Mulligan: there is deinitely a missing student-teacher aspect
    Yes, so perhaps that whole model has to be replaced in SL; but before addressing that I tried to wrap up the notion of PaB as a global kind of neighborhood pub.
    Pema Pera: oh yes, definitely
    Pema Pera: so the old way doesn't work as well
    Pema Pera: question is:
    Pema Pera: is there a new way?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, the time selection element ins most interesting -- for me that is the stronget indicia of a community-need satisfaction
    Pila Mulligan: the new way is evolvgin it seems
    Pema Pera: yes, very much, and rapidly so
    Pila Mulligan: SL is fun, but it is also more than just fun, it is satisfying
    Pema Pera: as for community-need, speaking for myself: in Holland I used to go to a neighborhood cafe to relax and wind down, but in the US I have yet to find such places, plus I (think I ) don't have the time to do so -- hanging out in SL forces me to some extent to go back to that model, to just set time aside, hang out, like here in PaB, and see what happens, without expectations, without looking at my watch. In that sense this new medium for me at least recaptures part of how I grew up, with leisure time in a neighborhood cafe -- so it's really complex!
    Pema Pera: But in addition to that, there is something more radically new
    Pema Pera: something beyond teacher-student
    Pema Pera: in which we all "teach" each other
    Pema Pera: sharing, helping, pointing out
    Pema Pera: we are all mutual pointers for each other
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: i was just typing a similar thought :)
    Pila Mulligan: the pub element
    Pema Pera: sorry for fast typing :-)
    Pila Mulligan: that's ok -- I use notepad
    Pila Mulligan: helps em catch a few typos :)
    Pila Mulligan: before pasting
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pila Mulligan: here is an insight: in professional relationships the interpersonal dynamic can be and is formalized by social procedures that insulate you from direct exposure to raw life -- most of my day to day relationhsips are like that
    Pila Mulligan: this was minie
    Pila Mulligan: and then on to the pub aspect
    Pila Mulligan: but it is already there :)
    Pila Mulligan: is there a name for the situation when people are saying almost exactly the same thing from separate points of view in a conversation?
    Pila Mulligan: the 'great minds' syndrome
    Pema Pera: there should be :)
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pema Pera: it may mean that they are talking about something real :)
    Pila Mulligan: I learned last year of a german expression for how told-things get changed after several repetitions
    Pila Mulligan: it is anice epxression to have available
    Pema Pera: we see the same teacup from different angles too
    Pila Mulligan: yep, the elephant
    Pema Pera: if we each dream one up, they will look different
    Pema Pera: do you remember the German expression?
    Pila Mulligan: I do not
    Pila Mulligan: a German fellow told me in the context of a situaiton where a story had made the rounds several times, andbeen changed
    Pema Pera: one challenge for SL is of course quality control
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pema Pera: the very word "control" is a RL way of thinking
    Pila Mulligan: Stim's workshops seem to rise and fall on the presence of newbies sometimes
    Pila Mulligan: if it is just the regular group it flow
    Pema Pera: question is: in SL, or virtual worlds in general, can you keep quality without heavy control?
    Pila Mulligan: if ont it can be tough
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: you can indeed
    Pila Mulligan: be assured
    Pema Pera: yes, we've seen that in other workshops too, often!
    Pila Mulligan: you can do it in RL
    At this point Paradise entered, to make it a three-way conversation.
    Pila Mulligan: ha Paradise
    Pema Pera: newbies interrupting the flow, no matter how well intended
    Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
    Paradise Tennant: hi hi :))
    Pila Mulligan: Nymf had a nice set up for her old forum
    Pila Mulligan: the scheculed sessiosn were emebers only
    Pema Pera: Paradise, we're talking about the pros and cons of learning/sharing in RL and SL
    Pila Mulligan: kind of a door -- easy to enter bu ketp away vaagonds
    Pila Mulligan: vagabonds*
    Paradise Tennant: :)0
    Pema Pera: the RL teacher-student model vs. the more peer-based SL model of sharing and helping and pointing out
    Pila Mulligan: PaB would be better kept open of coourse
    Paradise Tennant: I have yet to see a vagabond here :)
    Pema Pera: and we just got to the notion of quality control in RL that is one reason behind its rigidity (the other being politics)
    Pila Mulligan: but groups like Stim's workshop should be members only after the initial sessions -- with amdission possible, but not an open door
    Pema Pera: so how to keep quality without the kind of RL rigid control?
    Pila Mulligan: just a matter of how public the offer is
    Pema Pera: haha, Paradise, virtual vagabonds enough here though
    Pema Pera: Pila, I think the door can be replaced by a window
    Pila Mulligan: does Princeton let people into clases half way thru a semester?
    Paradise Tennant: well maybe accepting what arises .. is it a real problem very often :))
    Pila Mulligan: yes, nice metaphor
    Pila Mulligan: see, do not speak :)
    Pema Pera: if newcomers don't talk the first time they come, but respectfully observe, it would be fine
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: kind of a price of dmission
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: admission -- silence
    Pema Pera: we might actually propose that!
    Pema Pera: silence is golden -- the price of admission
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise, what I have seen and would call a vagabond is the perosn coming oen time only and using it to insensitively chat at a fast pace
    Pila Mulligan: monoplizing the time
    Pema Pera: often well intended but misguided
    Pila Mulligan: yes, just naive
    Paradise Tennant: ;) kk .. have not seen that here :)) but I only come to this time slot :))
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pila Mulligan: here it is not much of a problem
    Pila Mulligan: at Kira I have seen it too often
    Pema Pera: it happens much more in Kira workshops
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera: Pila and I are in a mind melt today
    Pila Mulligan: watching the same elephant
    Hence the title of this log.
    Paradise Tennant: yes not sure that many people know about this forum ..
    Paradise Tennant: I stumbled on it by chance while exploring ..
    Pema Pera: I'm glad you found us, Paradise!
    Pila Mulligan: it seems to me that accounts for about half the new people --stumbling upon
    Paradise Tennant: yes me too .. I have really enjoyed the conversation
    Paradise Tennant: learnt alot
    Pema Pera: same here, Paradise, I've enjoyed some of your gems -- you have a way to get down to the essentials
    Pila Mulligan: brb -- got to stir dinner
    Pila Mulligan: back
    Pema Pera: perfect timing!
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: (for the log: Pila came and went with the 90-sec bells)
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Pila Mulligan: PAradise, earlier we talked about how there is a satisfying aspect to SL and PaB even wihtout thelement of personal presence -- it is like a pub
    Pema Pera: Paradise, we started talking about a suggestion by Pila, to
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Paradise Tennant: yes very much so
    Paradise Tennant: except with me it usually tea :))
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pila Mulligan: me too
    Pema Pera: I do enjoy a RL beer . . .
    Pila Mulligan: the best, Pema
    Paradise Tennant: yes .. me too .. especially during hot weather but at night .. tea seems to taste best :))
    Pema Pera: I was going to write: we got from talk about RL PaB to pub :-)
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise, were you in on the discussions earlier this year about trying out PaB session in RL?
    Pema Pera: the first ideas was
    Pila Mulligan: elephant again
    Pema Pera: yes, that
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Paradise Tennant: no
    Pila Mulligan: as an expereiment
    Pema Pera: that was before your time -- that sound funny :-)
    Paradise Tennant: hmm sound interesting
    Pila Mulligan: it would be a fun expereiment
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: just a baby :))
    Pema Pera: before your time with us
    Pema Pera: or our time with you
    Pema Pera: Play as Being is to some extent Play as Baby
    Pema Pera: in innocence
    Pila Mulligan: if I try to think of existing analogies in rl, something open for community-making, I usually think only of yoga classes or bible studies
    Paradise Tennant: and in acceptance
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Pila Mulligan: not much else seems to be avialable -- for just rap session
    We talked about RL community groups.
    Paradise Tennant: i am part of a buddhist study group in rl ..
    Pema Pera: neigborhood pubs?
    Pema Pera: but they miss the focus
    Pema Pera: the pubs, I mean
    Pema Pera: may I ask what kind of group, Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: we listen to teachings . and then discuss them from sogyal rinpoche and more recently dongsar rinmpoche
    Paradise Tennant: rinpoche
    Pema Pera: must be very interesting!
    Paradise Tennant: yes I very much like dongsar's approach .
    Pema Pera: I went to some of Sogyal's workshops twenty years ago . . . .
    Paradise Tennant: he is direct
    Paradise Tennant: ahh cool
    Pila Mulligan: but, no offens eintended, that is avariation of the bible study :)
    Pema Pera: haven't met him yet, Dongsar
    Pila Mulligan: it may not be of interst to non-Buddhists
    Paradise Tennant: lol he does a seminar most years in Vancouver which I have yet to go to ..
    Paradise Tennant: nope
    Paradise Tennant: definitely not
    Pila Mulligan: although I am sure it is satisfying
    Pema Pera: yes, it's the openness and inclusiveness of PaB that is really unusual
    Pila Mulligan: for anyone
    Paradise Tennant: this is a nice forum very much because of its non specific and rambling kind of openess
    Pema Pera: without becoming so shallow as to have nothing left to talk about
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: you type faster
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: I see the ad "rambling your way to enlightenment, 9 seconds at a time"
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: would sell the path
    Paradise Tennant: I have set my watch ..
    Pila Mulligan: stop by the PaB
    Paradise Tennant: low volume
    Pila Mulligan: havea root beer
    Pema Pera: I'll try to slow down a bit . . . .
    Paradise Tennant: makes a difference
    Pila Mulligan: you are lucky to undersatnd quantum physics and speed typing :)
    Pila Mulligan: usually it is one or the pother
    Pema Pera thinks that Pila thinks that I'm using a quantum device to speed up my typing
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Paradise Tennant: also nice to be able to meditate with other peopel
    Paradise Tennant: people
    Paradise Tennant: very . much .. the same as in rl . the same energy
    Pema Pera: yes, very much, and it's interesting that to some extent that is even possible here
    Paradise Tennant: find it very restful
    Pema Pera: was quite a surprise for me
    Paradise Tennant: well this is rl .. it is where our attention is at this moment
    Pila brought up an interesting way to conduct PaB in RL, for fun and profit :)
    Pila Mulligan: there also may be a practical aspect to it given the economy -- some folks around here are already working on coops and barteing to share food at low cost -- if a rl PaB group had that need their common gorund would make it easier
    Pema Pera: can you say more about that, Paradise?
    Pema Pera thinking about Pila's suggestion of a new RL community/commune. Instead of Quakers and Shakers, we will introduce Stoppers and Droppers?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: I have never undertood how so many people view it as different from rl
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise, earlier Pema and I also spoke about comparing RL to SL presence, such as in meditaion
    Pila Mulligan: there is a difference :)
    Pila Mulligan: the question is what is the difference?
    Pila Mulligan: I have a hard time characterizing it
    Paradise Tennant: hmm very small difference really
    Paradise Tennant: we are sitting together talking
    Paradise Tennant: three peopel
    Paradise Tennant: people
    Pila Mulligan: yes, but in fact thousand sof mile apart
    Pema Pera: perhaps differnet people use SL differently: as a shield, a window, a door, a pulpit, . . . .
    Paradise Tennant: different time zones .. different countries but still just three people talking
    Pema Pera: yes
    Paradise Tennant: I am still me ..
    Pila Mulligan: and not hearing sounds or smelling smells or seeing bodies
    Pema Pera: that's the community sense, the sharing
    Pema Pera: it's poetic in a sense, minimalistic
    Paradise Tennant: yes and community is the perhaps the most addictive thing about sl
    Pila Mulligan: the esoteric part maybbe even better than RL is some respcets
    Paradise Tennant: because it is very real
    Paradise Tennant: very real liffe
    Paradise Tennant: life
    Pema Pera: and in some way that can allow more of the essence to shine through
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: but what about the sounds, smells and sights?
    Pema Pera: like a charicature sometimes captures a personality better than a ten megapixel photograph
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: well we are in a different format of interreaction
    Paradise Tennant: sort of social platform for interreaction
    Pila Mulligan: and the animation also
    Paradise Tennant: well .. more of a tool to take your attention around lol just like your body takes your attention around
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pila Mulligan: it seems to me there is a second level of SL where, with people you already know, it is more pub like
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: at the initial level SL is just glorified text chat
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    We started talking about RL encounters with SL friends.
    Pema Pera: yes, and it has been very interesting to meet people in RL, after having gotten to know them quite well in SL first
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pema Pera: for example, when I met Wol, for the first time, a month ago, in Germany -- and Storm I have yet to meet in RL !
    Pila Mulligan: Pema mentioned that meeting first in SL may actually be helpful to RL relationships
    Paradise Tennant: I have had several sl dinner parties ..
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: I think I agree because you connect first
    Pila Mulligan: rl dinner parties for sl people?
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: cool
    Pema Pera: sounds like fun!
    Pila Mulligan: can I come?
    Pema Pera: may I ask where you live?
    Paradise Tennant: know a fair number of real life musicians
    Paradise Tennant: sure
    Paradise Tennant: toronto
    Pema Pera: great place for it!
    Pema Pera: in Tokyo there is quite a tight SL community in RL
    Paradise Tennant: there is a rl music jam in montreal on July 25th which I am going
    Pema Pera: they often gather in a bar
    Paradise Tennant: oh cool
    Pema Pera: sometimes even once a week
    Paradise Tennant: wow
    Pila Mulligan: do they type or talk :)
    Paradise Tennant: lol in rl we talk
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: do you ever use voice in these sessions?
    Pema Pera: no, not in PaB
    Pema Pera: on purpose, for quite a number of different reasons
    We quickly come up with at least five reasons, between the three of us.
    Paradise Tennant: was at another jam in indianapolis that was fun in june
    Paradise Tennant: yes writing makes for exactness
    Pema Pera: and is more peaceful
    Pila Mulligan: are these jams composed of players from SL, Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: comtemplative communication because is slower
    Pema Pera: and different people can talk at once
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pema Pera: and shy people can enter more easily
    Pila Mulligan: cool +
    Pema Pera: and you have a log afterwards
    Pila Mulligan: I do not have the system resources to use voice
    Paradise Tennant: I'll send you the URL
    Paradise Tennant: yes was fun
    Paradise Tennant: yes good to have a log
    Pila Mulligan: nice photos, Ilove jams
    Paradise Tennant: generally find .. there is a different feel to the connection with slers
    Paradise Tennant: like they have been able to step out a bit
    Paradise Tennant: stretch
    Paradise Tennant: and there is so so so so so much great musical talent here
    Pema Pera: which makes one wonder: is it a selection effect, or are people changed by being in SL together?
    Paradise Tennant: I think sl changes people
    Paradise Tennant: not always for the best
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Paradise Tennant: it seems to have a very destructive side to it .. if they forget that it is rl too
    Pila Mulligan: it allows peole to emerge in a new form
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: untethered
    Pema Pera: adrift
    Paradise Tennant: but karma is karma lol
    Pila Mulligan: for better or worse
    Paradise Tennant: it comes too
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: i have a sl musician staying with me now as a house guest .. her and her entire family came over from france last year and she like canada so well she has chosen to immigrate her folks are coming over again in July .. we will all be at the montreal jam :)) I met them once when I was in dijion . the world is such a small place
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pema Pera: was coming over from France triggered at first by SL contacts?
    Paradise Tennant: yes . I have another friend in sl who asked me to host mimi .. her place was to small ..
    Paradise Tennant: as it happens it has been a lot of fun ..
    Paradise Tennant: my dog love her :))
    Paradise Tennant: *love
    Paradise Tennant: *loves
    Pema Pera: how nice!
    Pila Mulligan: I'm really enjopying the phot album -- are these mostly people form SL?
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: wow
    Paradise Tennant: many musicians
    Pema Pera: well, I know several couples who met in SL and did get married in RL -- like Storm is going to do soon
    Paradise Tennant: was a great jam just wonderful music
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: I have friends too
    Paradise Tennant: same story . changed their lives entirely
    Paradise Tennant: and seen the reverse perfectly happy marriages torn asunder by confused judgement
    Paradise Tennant: all kind of silly
    Pema Pera: always many sides to everything . . . .
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: now here's a quesiton, does SL have a different effect on people over say 40 or 45?
    Pila Mulligan: age
    Paradise Tennant: do not think age relates here
    Paradise Tennant: the same as in rl
    Pema Pera: well, time for RL lunch here . . .
    Paradise Tennant: I have a friend here is a teenager .. lol very informed on art .. we chill at the galleries together . would not do that in rl the same way
    Pema Pera: fun meeting you both here in the PaB pub like pav -- pavilion :)
    It was time for me to leave, so I will add the rest of the chat log below, without further comments.
    Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
    Paradise Tennant: and I have a very close friend in their seventies .. who has the most amazing energy :))
    Paradise Tennant: bye pema
    Pema Pera: bye for now
    Paradise Tennant: big wave
    Pila Mulligan: so in terms of age the SL barrier-reducing effect applies
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: yes like .. it bends geography .. i think it bends age
    Pila Mulligan: i was just thinking how for younger people SL is not a novelty
    Pila Mulligan: for me it is
    Pila Mulligan: high-tech stuff
    Paradise Tennant: but so user friendly except when you are wearing your shoes on your head . not so intimitating :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: or sitting on someone you have not seen while the pavillin rezzes
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Pila Mulligan: I'm still thinking about how to charcaterize the rl-sl distincitons
    Pila Mulligan: SL indeed has a level playing field
    Pila Mulligan: unlike RL
    Pila Mulligan: it is like a nude beach in some respects
    Pila Mulligan: clothing value is not as important
    Pila Mulligan: but it is also lacking in signals that are socially important
    Pila Mulligan: body language and expressions
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: very much so
    Paradise Tennant: eye contact tone of voice body language all the visual clues we .. assemble to tell the world how we think we are lol
    Pila Mulligan: so it has strengths and weaknesses
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Paradise Tennant: not sure any more than rl
    Paradise Tennant: the package is often not the content
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I agree, both have both
    Pila Mulligan: but they are different and that is the interetsing part, getting a handle on the differences -- some parts of SL surpise me
    Paradise Tennant: well yes .. there is a creepy component for true
    Pila Mulligan: SL gourp mediation is notlike RL group meditaion to me, but it is still something unique
    Pila Mulligan: creepy and in creepy people?
    Pila Mulligan: as in*
    Paradise Tennant: I find it not much different
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Paradise Tennant: but that is rl too
    Pila Mulligan: SL group meditaions do not share breath the way RL does
    Paradise Tennant: and really just perfect beings .. in very different shells :))
    Pila Mulligan: there is an energy mutliplying effect in RL group meditations that i have not yet seen in SL -- I have seen group energy synthesizing or empathizing in SL, but not multiplying as is common in RL
    Paradise Tennant: hmm i find the presence very much the same .. although I must say there is a buddhist temple here where I find there is almost a tangible .. difference to experience
    Paradise Tennant: in rl
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm
    Pila Mulligan: yes, that difference is what i am calling energy multipliig
    Pila Mulligan: the repeated use of a rl place for meditaiton makes it unique
    Pila Mulligan: a unique place
    Pila Mulligan: called a whi pana in HGwaiian
    Pila Mulligan: wahi pana
    Paradise Tennant: every place seems to have its own energy
    Pila Mulligan: yes indeed
    Paradise Tennant: use to go to bliss gardens to meditate
    Paradise Tennant: found it had a very special beauty that was almost a physical presence
    Paradise Tennant: also made for a great concert setting
    Pila Mulligan: yep, that is the place energy
    Pila Mulligan: as sopposed to say a subay station
    Paradise Tennant: beauty .. is perception and sl has enormous amounts of beauty
    Pila Mulligan: sub-way
    Pila Mulligan: but SL is two dimensional animation
    Paradise Tennant: like walking in a painting
    Pila Mulligan: so the virbation of the trees is a projection if antying at all
    Paradise Tennant: oh have you benn here
    Pila Mulligan: in rl tree and plant vibrations help define the place
    Pila Mulligan: I have some bliss gardens of my onw :)
    Pila Mulligan: in rl
    Pila Mulligan: in sl this pavaillionis more like a social pub -- friendhsips
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: but this is as close as SL gets to a bliss garden for me
    Pila Mulligan: not quite there, but close
    Paradise Tennant: there is a wonderful paris based photographer who does 360 photos you walk into in sl
    Paradise Tennant: very cool
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: hunting through all of my landmarks for you
    Pila Mulligan: do you have a landmark for the photographer's place
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: very messy closet
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: so many shoes
    Pila Mulligan: thanks Paradise, I look forward to seeing it
    Paradise Tennant: you just click on the pictures and they surround you
    Pila Mulligan: nice
    Paradise Tennant: many of them are pictures of his families homes
    Paradise Tennant: one lovely one is set for christmas eve dinner .. you walk right along the table
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Paradise Tennant: like a mouse
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: I have seen some creative art displays in SL -- the multimedia effect
    Pila Mulligan: cool
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: you so right too many shoes
    Pila Mulligan: this aspect of vitrual worlds seems to attract universities also
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: would think it would be a great forum for education
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Paradise Tennant: and offers the possiblity of making it much more affordable
    Pila Mulligan: and will evoilve that way to be even better, probably
    Paradise Tennant: without scrimping on content
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: and for distance too, like the outback australian schools that were done by ham radio
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: would you like to do a quick meditation Pila then I am off to walk the hound :)) say 10 minutes do you have time
    Pila Mulligan: well, Paradise, dinner is done now and is summoning me to rl -- but a quick meditaiton would be nice
    Paradise Tennant: kk maybe five mintues if you are hungry
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pila Mulligan: 5 minutes :) (says m tummy)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: need to type faster lol
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: starting now
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pila Mulligan: nice interlude, thanks Paradise -- better than sayinggrace before dinner
    Paradise Tennant: so what's for dinner
    Pila Mulligan: tahi nooidle curry -- tofu
    Pila Mulligan: thai
    Paradise Tennant: hmm yummy
    Pila Mulligan: made thi safternoon
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: nice enjoy
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Pila Mulligan: thanks also for the landmark, I'll visit it soon
    Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
    Paradise Tennant: waves .. yes you will like it
    Paradise Tennant: aloha
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