2009.07.13 13:00 - Constructions

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stim :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you today?
    Stim Morane: well, it's a hot day here ... relatively speaking.
    Stim Morane: I'm feeling like a mole
    Stim Morane: And you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's cooler recently. Hoping for another heatwave heheheh. I'm good thank you.
    Gaya Ethaniel: While we wait for others, can I ask for an advice?
    Stim Morane: well, I may not have any comments, but sure ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya, Stim:)
    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm thinking that I will have more and more new experiences as I continue to practice.
    Stim Morane: Hi pila
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila
    Pila Mulligan: hi Stim, Gaya and Scath
    Gaya Ethaniel: Some are obviously unfamiliar ... and wonder how to experience them without feeling too worried about.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pila :)
    Stim Morane: are you thinking of the "reflection" example you mentioned to me?
    Gaya Ethaniel: And ... I had a dream in which I was thinking about the dream within while dreaming ... kind of sustained way.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Which is new ...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Stim Morane: yes, a normal development
    Stim Morane: so are you a bit worried about such things?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok ... phew
    Pila Mulligan: that seems to be an affimrative answer
    Gaya Ethaniel: I was just trying out your suggestion - try to experience without moving or doing.
    Stim Morane: I see
    Stim Morane: well, a short excursion into meditation practice isn't too likely to be disturbing on an on-going basis.
    Stim Morane: But if you are planning on staying with it, it's like embarking on an adventure for 10 lifetimes.
    Stim Morane: there are so many things that will pop up and pull you around.
    Stim Morane: And dry spells too ...
    Scathach Rhiadra: wb, that was quick return:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry crashed ... did I miss much?
    Stim Morane: Hi again, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: "10 lifetime adventure" was the last I saw.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :)
    Stim Morane: would someone send a little note to Gaya re the last few lines?
    Scathach Rhiadra: ok
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Guys
    Stim Morane: thanks
    Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mick :)
    Stim Morane: Hi mick
    Mickorod Renard: ;)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
    Mickorod Renard: scath
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty Scath :) caught up now.
    Stim Morane: Gaya, my point was simply that there are so many things that will happen ... including "nothing".
    Stim Morane: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok :)
    Stim Morane: sometimes you will wish for a break from the strangeness or newness, sometimes you will wish for something new to come forward.
    Stim Morane: It's a long investigation
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok I understand Stim.
    Stim Morane: a sense of humor and patience are important
    Stim Morane: patience with the strangeness, patience with the absence of strangeness
    Gaya Ethaniel: Humour is something that is elusive to me at times ...
    arabella Ella: hiya
    Stim Morane: Hi, arabella!
    Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara
    Gaya Ethaniel: I did actually laughed at myself during the dream - it was my funeral and I realised that it came about because of 'no-self' concept I've been 'playing' with. But afterwards [the day after, thinking back], I kind of felt a bit weird about it.
    Stim Morane: yes, that's understandable
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
    Stim Morane: similar things will happen many times, on various levels
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok ... knowing that these experiences aren't uncommon helps.
    Stim Morane: people often tease me about how often I say that some experience is "normal".
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It helps especially when you say it Stim :) Thank you.
    Stim Morane: you're raised a very large question, with many aspects
    Gaya Ethaniel: You mean ... what am I ... what is this?
    Stim Morane: well, the matter of dealing with all the feelings and attitudes that arise in various cases.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... yes.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It was interesting to compare how I viewed during the dream and afterwards.
    Stim Morane: ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I was able to laugh ... not sure why I couldn't afterwards.
    Stim Morane: that is amusing
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ...
    Stim Morane: and sad, too, of course.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ...
    Stim Morane: Life is not easy, and dealing with the meditation process is very challenging.
    Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
    sophia Placebo: greetings
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello sophia :)
    arabella Ella: hiya sophia
    Mickorod Renard: hi Sophia
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sophia
    Stim Morane: Hi sophia!
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm glad I can come here and talk about it though :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    sophia Placebo: hello Tarmel
    Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi tarmel
    Stim Morane: Hi, Tarmel!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: hello, sorry I am late!
    arabella Ella: hiya Tarmel
    Stim Morane: It's OK, Tarmel, we're practicing patience today.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: :) I am learning slowly:)
    Stim Morane: me too ... VERY slowly
    sophia Placebo: hello Sophia
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello SophiaSharon :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi S S
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello SophiaSharon
    Pila Mulligan: hi SophiaSharon
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi everyone, sorry to pop in late
    arabella Ella: hiya SophiaSharon
    Stim Morane: Hi SophiaSharon
    Gaya Ethaniel: So the key is not to get spooked ^^;;;
    Stim Morane: the key is to accept being spooked, and roll along ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think I get that :)
    Pila Mulligan: as a description of how to integrate these expereinces, I've alsways liked Joseph Campbell's idea of a personal myhtology
    Pila Mulligan: we create our own myhtology of life
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Pila Mulligan: and it is entirely valid, even with that reference
    arabella Ella: could you say more Pila?
    Gaya Ethaniel: It is in fact fun to imagine what all these experiences may mean regarding life in general.
    Pila Mulligan: well, earlier Gaya referred to a dream and Stim's reference to being spooked evolved in part from that -- mediation practice often has some associated expereinces that are new, and life without meditation also has some spooky moments
    Pila Mulligan: this is how myths originate, these expereinces
    Pila Mulligan: they myth is to create a context as to what all these experiences may mean regarding life in general
    arabella Ella: is this like the social construction of reality to some extent?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and also a personal construct
    Pila Mulligan: they interact regulalry -- the social construct and the personal construct
    arabella Ella nods
    sophia Placebo: what should one do while he is patient ?
    Tarmel Udimo: it does make life richer to see it filtered through a personal mythology
    Tarmel Udimo: and yet I can't help thinking that perhaps if 'seeing clearly' is arising moment by moment do we need a mythology or whay to explain it?
    Tarmel Udimo: *why
    Stim Morane: it's an Hawaiian thing ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good question Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    Tarmel Udimo: I'm into personal mythology:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :0
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oops meant :)
    Tarmel Udimo: must be the tropical b/ground:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Having basics are good though - how things may be ... whether it's constructed by own or drawn from others' experiences. Otherwise I'd feel like groping in the dark.
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive wondered why we embellish our stories too
    Mickorod Renard: ego
    Tarmel Udimo: all of life is constructed on a story(ies) espacially religion
    Pila Mulligan: (joseph campbell lived in hawaii)
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Stim Morane: see!
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Tarmel Udimo: (ahh -films are based on the hero's journey and it works)
    Tarmel Udimo: (by joseph cambell - it gives us hero's to follow and worship)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: He said according to wikipedia "follow your bliss" - how nice :)
    Tarmel Udimo: we do all need reference points Gaya, we all stumble in the dark:)
    Mickorod Renard: without a good story there would be little will to live
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)
    arabella Ella: stories help us to give sense and meaning to our thoughts and actions and those of others ... it is human nature to try to make sense of things
    arabella Ella: isnt it?
    sophia Placebo nods
    sophia Placebo: it helps to make the frame of the picture
    SophiaSharon Larnia: by using social contstructs, it seems to me also that we are always interpreting experience
    Tarmel Udimo: nods, rather than seeing/expereincing it fully, I agree sophia
    Tarmel Udimo: and it takes place on such subtle levels sometime
    sophia Placebo: well that what sense do , making frames
    Mickorod Renard: do we construct our future?
    Mickorod Renard: in our minds?
    arabella Ella: Stim you earlier used the expression 'patience with the absence of strangeness' ... could you say more please?
    Stim Morane: we come to require it in the course of meditation training ... but in fact we must become reconciled to long periods of "nothing special"
    SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Pila Mulligan: ergo, patience :)
    Mickorod Renard: is that because we are generally not conditioned in a way to be patient naturaly for meditation?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is 'nothing special' different from feeling 'flat' or do you mean the same?
    arabella Ella: it sounds really difficult to me ... perhaps because some of us are scared of 'boredom' ... of 'emptiness' ... of 'repetitivity' ... of the 'mundane'?
    Stim Morane: good point, Gaya ... there are many distinct cases.
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... ok
    Stim Morane: but if we have become addicted to new adventures or experiences, even "nothing special" feels "flat"
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks.
    Mickorod Renard: I must admit to having an adition for adreneln,,and find outside that buzz rather mundane
    Mickorod Renard: adiction*
    arabella Ella: do you see this 'craving' for more whatever ... power, cash, challenges, the new ... as something negative in today's western world Stim?
    Pila Mulligan: part of life seems to be learning how to experience unfamiliar things without feeling too worried about it, taking things in stride, but most of life seems to be what I'd call the mundane constant, just getting along doing nothing special -- patience in waiting for excitement may then yield to contentment with the mundane
    Mickorod Renard: thats what I need Pila
    Stim Morane: The point of meditation and contemplative practice is not special experiences but "what is". However, on the way to that openness, all the other cases and the need for framings etc mentioned here figure too
    Stim Morane: Modern life is definitely pushing stimulation ...
    arabella Ella nods
    Tarmel Udimo: (obvioulsy not as 'old' as Pila & I Mic)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: What is not old?
    Pila Mulligan: young
    Mickorod Renard: ;)
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: that's right:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: gah SL is making me look gullible ^^;;;
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Stim Morane: I know what you mean, Gaya.
    Gaya Ethaniel guffaws ... no way Stim.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this medium does have a way of doinf that
    Gaya Ethaniel: You look fine :)
    Stim Morane: Gotta go. Thanks, everyone!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you. Have a nice day Stim :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Stim
    Stim Morane: Bye!
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Stim!
    sophia Placebo: bye stim
    arabella Ella: bye Stim thanks!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Stim
    Mickorod Renard: nite Stim
    Tarmel Udimo: missd him:)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,i was too slow as well
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Mickorod Renard: ;(
    Tarmel Udimo: you mic -too slow:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,well,,in im too
    Mickorod Renard: being a man,,not good at multi tasking
    arabella Ella: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles.
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    arabella Ella: why Mick?
    arabella Ella: is multi tasking only for females?
    Mickorod Renard: so its said
    Pila Mulligan: a Beatles lyric has started floating around my otherwise vacant brain: love is old, love is new, love is all, love is you
    Gaya Ethaniel: Don't buy it Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Gaya Ethaniel: aaww ... nice one Pila :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
    Mickorod Renard: thats nice Pila
    arabella Ella: easy cop out Mick?
    arabella Ella: like if i were to say ... only men are good at ironing shirts?
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: well thats def not true
    arabella Ella: he he
    arabella Ella: u sound sure about that?
    Mickorod Renard: I am,,but i can if I have to
    arabella Ella giggles
    Mickorod Renard: thats the diference
    arabella Ella: sounds a bit like females and flat tires to me ... car tyres of course :)
    arabella Ella: altho help is always a phone call away
    Gaya Ethaniel: So ... can I ask? What's your personal mythology about life? Do you have one?
    Mickorod Renard: whos that to gaya?
    sophia Placebo: that was the question in my head too !
    Gaya Ethaniel: To anyone :)
    arabella Ella: i dont think we can isolate personal mythology from social mythhology IMHO
    Mickorod Renard: I had one once,,but it was blown to pices
    Gaya Ethaniel is being curious again :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh ... that must have been shattering [no pun intended] experience Mick.
    sophia Placebo: i had one this morning
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    sophia Placebo: all women are godesses and all men are demons
    arabella Ella: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles.
    Mickorod Renard: I have them in my dreams,then i wake up and realise they were myths
    Tarmel Udimo: that's a big one sophia
    Mickorod Renard: yes,the same mythes u have sophia
    sophia Placebo: the same mick :)
    sophia Placebo: ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: or all med gods, and all women temptresses
    Mickorod Renard: well almost
    Mickorod Renard: well thats not a myth
    SophiaSharon Larnia grins
    arabella Ella giggles
    Tarmel Udimo: yes it feels like women are always being portrayed as being temptresses
    arabella Ella: ehrm ... all men are slaves ... all women are ... dot ... dot ... dot
    Mickorod Renard: we pretend to be slaves
    Gaya Ethaniel guffaws.
    sophia Placebo: i told they are demons
    Tarmel Udimo: well there you go sophia
    Mickorod Renard: but note that real slaves dont get thier shirts ironed by someone else
    Tarmel Udimo: obviously told this by a man?
    Tarmel Udimo: heheh Mic
    sophia Placebo: me?
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow ... this is way too funny :)
    sophia Placebo: no i made it up today morning
    arabella Ella: i wonder why shirts still have to be ironed in this day and age :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I'm afraid I need to get some tea then bed :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day/night all :)
    sophia Placebo: bye gaya
    Tarmel Udimo: ahh, sorry thought someone had told you that:)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Gaya
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Gaya:)
    Tarmel Udimo: bye Gaya
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you too bye Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: its to keep women in their place
    arabella Ella: nite Gaya
    Scathach Rhiadra: night*
    Mickorod Renard: bye Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel throws the cushion to Mick before leaving :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    arabella Ella: (tiptoes out ... bye ... nite!)
    Mickorod Renard: waves quietly
    sophia Placebo: bye mick bye ara
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i have to go too, take care everyone :)
    sophia Placebo: bye sophia
    Tarmel Udimo: yes me too, great chats folks - see yu all later:)
    Pila Mulligan: bye arabella
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Tarmel
    sophia Placebo: bye tarmel:)
    Tarmel Udimo: waves
    Pila Mulligan: bye SophiaSharon
    Pila Mulligan: bye Tarmel
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must be off too, good night all
    sophia Placebo: night scath
    Pila Mulligan: bye Scath
    sophia Placebo: bye pila
    Pila Mulligan: bye sophia

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