The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.
Soon after I came into the pavillion, Pema joined me. We chatted a bit about my holidays (in Dutch)...
Pema Pera: Hoi Wester!
Pema Pera: Een rustige nacht hier.
Wester Kiranov: hoi pema!
Wester Kiranov: zoals meestal, rustig
Wester Kiranov: ik ben net terug van vakantie
Pema Pera: hoe was het?
Wester Kiranov: erg leuk, heel ontspannend
Pema Pera: waar ging je heen?
Wester Kiranov: we waren met mijn ouders en zus en alle kinderen naar een meertje in de bergen, caldaro, zuid tirol
... and then Vajra Radikal joined us too.
Vajra told us about his plans for further spiritual development, and shared his story about what happened before that.Pema Pera: Hi Vajra, goed to see you again!
Wester Kiranov: en ik ben nu dus net een uurtje terug
Vajra Radikal: namaste there
Wester Kiranov: (sorry for the dutch)
Wester Kiranov: hello vajra
Vajra Radikal: hello
Pema Pera: Vajra, Wester just told me she came back for a few weeks vacation, having arrived home just an hour ago!
Pema Pera: Incredible dedication to PaB :-)
Pema Pera: (Play as Being)
Wester Kiranov: thanks ;)
Vajra Radikal: amazing
Vajra Radikal: where did u vacation 2
Wester Kiranov: Italy, south tirol
Vajra Radikal: any chance to seek spiritual growth
Vajra Radikal: or just plain fun
Wester Kiranov: family holiday - with my parents and my children and my sister
Wester Kiranov: just having fun and relaxing
Vajra Radikal: good 3 u
Vajra Radikal: im planning on leavin in a couple of weeks to seek a huichol shaman ive been told aboutWe talked a bit more about the compability of different religions.
Wester Kiranov: sounds exciting
Vajra Radikal: just hope it is not overhyped
Pema Pera: it probably depends a lot on context, how much you can learn and share -- unlike Buddhism, which is more explicitly trying to be universal, shamanism focuses very much on the local and the particular of culture and place
Vajra Radikal: agreed
Pema Pera: perhaps easier to get into, because it is so concrete in that sense -- at the same time harder to get into for someone not familiar with the culture and place . . .
Vajra Radikal: im interested in this whole concept of connecting to the earth power
Pema Pera: I'm looking forward to hear about your adventures, Vajra, in due time!
Vajra Radikal: sounds more raw than dharma
Pema Pera: Yes, many great Hindu and Buddhist teachers *also* very much appreciated the power of places!
Pema Pera: and of course Taoists too
Pema Pera: especially
Vajra Radikal: i do appreaciate the chanco of connectung back to my nations roots as i feel somewhat out of touch
Vajra Radikal: shamanism is so very much part of mexican culture
Vajra Radikal: it embibes traditions as far and wode as food and spirituality
Pema Pera: Vajra, you have told us that you went from atheism to Buddhism. I found that a fascinating and in many ways quiet logical move. Can you say a bit more about your trajectory in that respect, your explorations? And perhaps also the next step to shamanism?
Vajra Radikal: I began life as a catholic as most people do here
Vajra Radikal: that was until after my first communion
Vajra Radikal: during my first confessional i was told to read the bible
Vajra Radikal: as pennace
Vajra Radikal: that got me going into questioning
Vajra Radikal: as I never did that before it was until then
Vajra Radikal: that i had a first time at questioning
Vajra Radikal: a lot of the fundamental leaps of faith
Vajra Radikal: Got into a very big conflict which derived into atheism as god
Vajra Radikal: didn't cover all the logical aspects I had somehow come to expect
Vajra Radikal: then after university i developed sort of a vice on physics
Vajra Radikal: especially quantum theory and that gave me
Vajra Radikal: a better view of a different world where my
Vajra Radikal: spiritual void was filled by this science
Vajra Radikal: especially string theory woth its borderline approach
Vajra Radikal: between science and philosophy
Vajra Radikal: my wife always wanted me to go back to the church but somehow we evolved into a middle ground with
Vajra Radikal: buddhism as i supports my view of a godless and designless world as much as it supports her vision of a design above it all
Vajra Radikal: now the whole deal with the shaman is to explore different practices than ours
Vajra Radikal: that was a lot of my chest _)
Vajra Radikal: :)
Pema Pera: that's a very eloquent summary of a life time, Vajra, I'm impressed both by the content and the way you managed to summarize that content!
Wester Kiranov: i like the idea of buddhism as a compromise between atheism and catholicismThen Vajra and Pema left and Sophia came in.
Vajra Radikal: sincretism is a part of mexican culture
Vajra Radikal: you still see indigenous symbols and deitys intertwined with western figures of the virgin and jesus
Vajra Radikal: i used to have a laugh at the fact that under our buddha altar my wife kept and imago of our lady of guadalupe
Wester Kiranov: mmmm ... maybe i should move to mexico ;)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: it sounds like Japan, where Shinto and Buddhism go together quite well too
Wester Kiranov: buddism does combine well with other religions, i think. in tibet as well
Vajra Radikal: at least it does in theory
Vajra Radikal: however ive been worried at a certain amount of intollerance
Vajra Radikal: between buddhist groups
Wester Kiranov: like the dalai lama and (i forgot, who was it again)
Wester Kiranov: i think storm talked about it
Vajra Radikal: basically the dalay lama vs all dorge shudgen practitioners
Wester Kiranov: that was what i meant
Wester Kiranov: it worries me too
Vajra Radikal: will probably dedicate tonights meditation so that they find common ground again
Vajra Radikal: btw i must leave so as to meditate and sleepWe talked about the dropping of emotions.
Vajra Radikal: see you later guys
Wester Kiranov: bye then, it was good talking with you
Pema Pera: bye Vajra!
Pema Pera: yes, thank you!
Pema Pera: Wel, ik denk dat ik er ook maar eens vandoor ga
Pema Pera: zo krijg jij dan de kans om je huis wat aan kant te krijgen :-)
Wester Kiranov: dan ga ik zo ook maar eens. tot ziens!
Pema Pera: ik vond het heel leuk om Vajra weer te zien
Wester Kiranov: vond ik ook
Pema Pera: ik denk dat ik aan de groep voor zal stellen om hem uit te nodigen als guardian, wat dacht je daarvan?
Wester Kiranov: vind ik een prima idee
Pema Pera: ik zal wachten tot je chat log op het web staat, zodat mensen daar dan over hem kunnen lezen
Wester Kiranov: dan zal ik hem maar snel op het web zetten :)
Pema Pera: bedankt!
Pema Pera: En tot ziens!
Pema Pera: hello and goodbye Sophia!
Wester Kiranov: tot ziens!
Pema Pera: Sorry, I just was about to leave, sorry to miss you!
sophia Placebo: hi and bye pema
Wester Kiranov: hi sophia
sophia Placebo: hi wester
sophia Placebo: ^^
sophia Placebo: hi tycho
sophia Placebo: chat lag
sophia Placebo: have you tried the dropping wester ?
Wester Kiranov: done a lot of informal dropping lately - just come back from holidays
sophia Placebo: :)
sophia Placebo: must be refreshing
Wester Kiranov: it was
sophia Placebo: im wondering how much dropping one can do at a time
sophia Placebo: in non meditative state
sophia Placebo: when you try to just calm
sophia Placebo: or to clear your mind
sophia Placebo: when you are angery or sad
sophia Placebo: how far one can go with dropping?
Wester Kiranov: i think it does depend on how much you have practiced dropping, how natual it feels to you
sophia Placebo: true
Wester Kiranov: anger and sadness are pretty tough to drop, but it can be done
sophia Placebo: you need to drop more than anger to drop anger
Wester Kiranov: first you have to notice that you can drop them, and then you have to be willing to let go
sophia Placebo: pretty easy while sitting in nice place and talking friendly talk
sophia Placebo: but even if you are used to drop
Wester Kiranov: of your anger, and of the reasons you think you have to be angry, and your self-righteousness, etc. it does sound easier than it is
sophia Placebo: how far one would go with dropping in those cases
sophia Placebo: true
sophia Placebo: though many times poeple just wanna show ther anger
Wester Kiranov: yes
sophia Placebo: dealing with it takes time , showing it would realse all the negative charges at once
Wester Kiranov: it feels like relaese, but actually it jus solidifies the anger
sophia Placebo: i think it is both
Wester Kiranov: possibly
Then Natasha Urvile came in, left, Sophia left and Natasha came in again.
Natasha Urvile: HELLO ALLWe talked a bit more about meditation and then it was time to go.
sophia Placebo: hi natasha
Wester Kiranov: hi natasha
Wester Kiranov: have you been here before?
Natasha Urvile: yes
Wester Kiranov: ok, then i can skip the introductory talk
Wester Kiranov: we were talking about dropping anger and other difficult emotions
sophia Placebo: ^^
sophia Placebo: she dropped everything
Wester Kiranov: :)
sophia Placebo: well , see you soon wester :)
Wester Kiranov: see you later
Natasha Urvile: hi again
Wester Kiranov: hi again
Natasha Urvile: the other person is gone
Wester Kiranov: yes, she just left
Natasha Urvile: if i may ask what u were discussing
Wester Kiranov: we were talking about dropping anger. she wondered how much of it you can or should drop
Natasha Urvile: ok
Wester Kiranov: we had agreed so far that it needs quite a bit of practice, and it's easier to just show it, but not really better
Natasha Urvile: yes in my view too one needs to control anger
Natasha Urvile: but it comes with practice
Wester Kiranov: i think control is just a first step
Natasha Urvile: i mean if one meditates all these things happen automatically
Wester Kiranov: true
Natasha Urvile: u meditate?
Wester Kiranov: not as much as i should :)
Natasha Urvile: zen style may be?
Natasha Urvile: ??
Wester Kiranov: vipassana, if i have to give it a name
Natasha Urvile: r u indian
Wester Kiranov: no, i'm dutch
Wester Kiranov: I do like the 9 second practice, as well
Natasha Urvile: i have followed vipassana in my initial stage of meditation n strongly approve of it
Wester Kiranov: and what do you do now, as mediation?
Natasha Urvile: i have a guru (spiritual teacher now)
Wester Kiranov: that's good
Natasha Urvile: i follow shaktipath yoga
Natasha Urvile: where guru awakens ur kundalini by touch n u continue meditating
Wester Kiranov: ok
Natasha Urvile: i did experience total dissolution in vipassana
Natasha Urvile: have u heard of it
Wester Kiranov: heard of shaktipath, or total dissolution? (answer: no/ yes)
Natasha Urvile: did u experience total dissolution
Wester Kiranov: don't think so
Natasha Urvile: ok
Natasha Urvile: i think u want to meditate now i will not disturb
Images 0 | ||
---|---|---|
No images to display in the gallery. |