2009.07.20 19:00 - SL and RL personna

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.


    After social chat, the topic of RL vs. SL personna and meeting a SL PaB friend in First Life, was discussed

    Threedee Shepherd: hello Fox
    Fox Monacular: Hello Threedee

    Threedee Shepherd: What interests you about PaB?
    Fox Monacular: the fact that it even exists is quite interesting
    Fox Monacular: it's hard to say... the discussions are interesting, I feel that people have similar interests and complimentary knowledge
    Fox Monacular: for how long have you been doing it?
    Threedee Shepherd: ah yes, the complimentary knowledge is a wonderful part of PaB

    Wol Euler: hello threedee

    Wol Euler: hello fox

    Threedee Shepherd: I got a new router and fiber-optic DSL about 10 days ago and it has been stable as can be...17 MB download 800 KB up
    Fox Monacular: wow
    Fox Monacular: nice
    Threedee Shepherd: I have been pleased with the speed and the expense was almost the same as I was paying for 2.5 MB actual
    Wol Euler: wow
    Wol Euler: how many fps are you getting right now, for example?
    Threedee Shepherd: Actually. not that many, 14, but I am confident that's SL
    Wol Euler snorts. 4.7 here. 14 sounds wonderful.
    Wol Euler: hello ade, nice to see you.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: There are times I get 25-30, so I think LL is the throttle
    Threedee Shepherd: Hiya Love
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ Hiya, Love.
    sophia Placebo: Hi !
    Wol Euler: sophia! hello!
    Threedee Shepherd: hello sophia
    Wol Euler: you are up early, or very late.
    sophia Placebo: Hi Wol you back !
    sophia Placebo: i didnt sleep
    Wol Euler: not yet, I am in New Jersey. I wouldn't be here at this time if I were home.
    sophia Placebo: oh
    Threedee Shepherd: Where in NJ, wol?
    Wol Euler: New Brunswick :)
    Threedee Shepherd: At Rutgers?
    Wol Euler: yep, meeting Adamses, Fefonz and stevie tomorrow for RL dinner
    Wol Euler says meaningfully "I was in North Carolina yesterday"
    Threedee Shepherd: nice
    Wol Euler: it was :)
    Adelene Dawner: :D

    Wol Euler: there were pancakes.

    Threedee Shepherd: so, perhaps a topic to discuss is how meeting someone in FL affects your subsequent perception of them in SL?

    Wol Euler curses the lag monster and agrees to the topic.
    sophia Placebo: so ? what was your preception after meeting poeple in RL ?
    Wol Euler: well, last week I was at a wedding in RL of SL people.

    Threedee Shepherd: I hear them in SL, colored by how they are in FL. I am not saying that is good/bad, just different
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: I found when meeting SL people in RL, that I saw pixels overlaid on their meat avs
    Threedee Shepherd: hehehe
    Wol Euler: looking at them, I saw the SL avs that I know
    sophia Placebo looking at threedee
    Wol Euler: and when we meet again in SL, the reverse happens. RL faces overlap the SL avs
    Wol Euler: but for me it made surprisingly little difference, within 30 minutes max I was unaware which kind of av I was looking at.
    Wol Euler: hugging meat avs in RL is more fun than hugging pixel avs in SL, I will say that.
    Adelene Dawner: :D
    sophia Placebo: must be the nature of poeple of Pab , no rp here ^^ real poeple with real thoughts
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fox Monacular: good night everyone, not only my router is crashing, but myself too..
    Fox Monacular: see you next time
    Wol Euler: bye fox, take care
    Adelene Dawner: Have a good one, Fox.
    sophia Placebo: bye fox !
    Threedee Shepherd: bye fox

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, after a time the "dualness" wears off. Also, given that the one time I meet the groupd of may PaB folks in Princeton, earlier this year, there were too many of them for me to permanently correlate the RL person with the SL Av, except for a few. My brain has that problem even in RL ;>

    Wol Euler: there was one odd thing, come to think of it. I have trouble putting RL names to RL faces, I can forget new names while I am hearing them
    Wol Euler: but I had no trouble at all putting SL names to RL faces. Those all "took" immediately
    Threedee Shepherd: me too, routinely
    Threedee Shepherd: hhm
    Wol Euler: my theory (which may be crap) is that I find storing new faces easier than storing new names
    Wol Euler: and the SL names were not new.
    Wol Euler: so linking them was painless and simple
    sophia Placebo nods
    Threedee Shepherd: sensible conjecture
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler: looking at Ade's lion now, I imagine that I can see similarities to her RL face and bearing :)
    Adelene Dawner giggles.
    Threedee Shepherd giggles, too
    Wol Euler: yeah, I know.
    Wol Euler: has anyone else met SL people in RL?
    sophia Placebo: i guess i did not
    Threedee Shepherd: I am thinking about how I construct another person's *persona*. It is clearly different here using type chat. Purer in some ways, perhaps more limited in others.
    Adelene Dawner: I'd agree to that.
    Wol Euler: more content-based, perhaps? more emphasis on ideas and statements?
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, although personality does come through for people I see here often.
    Adelene Dawner: I'm sure I can't pin the difference down precisely, but it's significant enough that I can get a handle on someone's personality in a few months or even sometimes a few weeks, here, and it takes me at least a year to figure that out in RL, if I can at all. (RL is *hard*)
    Wol Euler: ooh, that is interesting. Fewer distractions? Distilled essence of person?
    Threedee Shepherd: I suspect that there is too much *noise* relative to signal in RL, for you
    Adelene Dawner: Indeed.
    Wol Euler nods
    Adelene Dawner: I'm also bolder with strangers, here.
    sophia Placebo: poeple say , poeple do in may times those are 2 diffrent things
    Adelene Dawner nods
    Adelene Dawner: It's easier to misinterpret, when you're seeing more doing than saying.
    sophia Placebo: being a written sort of communication , there is a bigger space to corect and take back what you wrote
    Wol Euler: brb, need to find the laptop's power cord
    Threedee Shepherd: Ade, that is interesting because people's body language is harder for them to disguise than their words, often.
    Adelene Dawner considers.
    sophia Placebo: hi abomb
    abomb Silvercloud: hello
    Threedee Shepherd: hello abomb
    sophia Placebo: have you been here before ?
    abomb Silvercloud: yes
    Adelene Dawner: It gets complicated, there. I've had enough of a habit of wanting to get people to leave me alone, through my life, that it's just about impossible to completely drop that signal unless I'm very comfortable. I'm pretty sure part of the body language I see is a reaction to that.
    Threedee Shepherd: ahh, good, you came back
    sophia Placebo: ok ^^
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, in FL, you send signals even before any words are spoken
    abomb Silvercloud: it's hard for me to make my body language convey what i'm actually wanting to express
    sophia Placebo: i guess facial expressions are not voluntary in most of time
    Wol Euler: back, hello abomb
    abomb Silvercloud: hi wol
    Threedee Shepherd: I suspect that *trying* to have specific body-language is too difficult. the automaticity of it keeps pressing back.
    abomb Silvercloud: yeah, some people look like they are frowning when their face is relaxed
    Adelene Dawner nods at Three.
    abomb Silvercloud: sometimes, a specific type of body language is demanded by the situation, though
    abomb Silvercloud: such as an interview.
    sophia Placebo: you should look confidant no?
    abomb Silvercloud: yeah, as well as the "strong handshake" and being friendly.
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, but I think that when you *try* to look a specific way, the other person notes that is it effortful and discounts it
    abomb Silvercloud: that's an interesting point.
    sophia Placebo: agrees with three
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: the Hollywood smile
    Wol Euler: or the high-pitched voice and fixed grin that many adults use on children
    abomb Silvercloud: that is interesting, that people change the way they act because they are interacting with a child
    abomb Silvercloud: wouldn't it make more sense to interact normally in order to teach them?
    Wol Euler: 42.
    Threedee Shepherd: I taught college students many of whom were preparing for Medical School and who asked about their interview strategy. My advice was always: Be yourself, an interviewer may have trouble figuring out who you are, but can always tell when you are *being* who you are not.
    Threedee Shepherd: Fact: Babioes hear the higher registers better
    abomb Silvercloud: interesting.
    Wol Euler: ah, so it isn't just a silly and annoying afectation.
    Threedee Shepherd: no, it is something parents "pick up" without even realizing it and then it has become sort of a cultural habit
    Wol Euler: huh
    Adelene Dawner: They've actually studied how parents talk to children, and I forget how they figured it out, but it's 'designed' to help them learn to speak... the interesting thing is that even though people talk similarly to pets, the specific qualities that are involved in teaching babies to speak are not present when speaking to pets.
    sophia Placebo: can the reverse works ? looking confidant to feel confidant ?
    Threedee Shepherd: interesting
    abomb Silvercloud: i always speak high pitched to pets, haha
    abomb Silvercloud: i'm sure if i had a child i'd do the same.
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, to some extent. Muscle tone and posture does interact with cognition.
    abomb Silvercloud: someone told me that if you force yourself to smile, it'll eventually make you smile...
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, that works (for me)
    Wol Euler: si that perhaps like mirror neurons working on oneself?
    abomb Silvercloud: perhaps.
    abomb Silvercloud: i wonder if the same thing happens when you see someone else smiling?
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, Wol, in a sense it is. Brain-body is all one, in an interactive sense.
    Threedee Shepherd: I thin so abomb, and there is a complicating factor I have long-noticed
    abomb Silvercloud: what factor is that?
    Threedee Shepherd: In my years of teaching it was obvious that females have *learned* to have a default smile on their face and males do not.
    Wol Euler: O.O
    abomb Silvercloud: i don't feel like i have a default smile on my face.
    sophia Placebo: i do
    Adelene Dawner: I'm moderately certain I don't. But I'm odd.
    abomb Silvercloud: many people say that i look bored or even sad when i'm just deep in thought and not paying attention to my facial expression
    sophia Placebo: default face
    abomb Silvercloud: but if this were the case for the majority of females, why do you think it happens?
    Threedee Shepherd: I think it is cultural (I only know about USA) and that it has to do with sexuality and mating.
    sophia Placebo: see you all later
    abomb Silvercloud: bye sophia
    Wol Euler: in my childhood it was explicitly taught. People said "Smile, dear"
    Threedee Shepherd: bye sophia
    Wol Euler: bye sophia, goodnight. I hope you can sleep
    abomb Silvercloud: interesting
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Soph.
    Adelene Dawner: I got a bit of 'why aren't you smiling' noise, but ignored it. :)
    sophia Placebo: it is morning and im sleepy already , i dont want to sleep though , adjusting my biological clock :)
    Wol Euler: not eveyrone has your strength of will, Ade :)
    abomb Silvercloud: no one ever really told me to smile, but usually if i wasn't smiling people would always be asking me "what's wrong?"
    Threedee Shepherd: from where to where, sophia
    sophia Placebo: from jobless time zone to jobfull time zone !
    Threedee Shepherd: I went just the other way, in retirement
    Wol Euler: ooooh! congratulations!!
    sophia Placebo: that is from more than 8 hours sleep to less than 5 hours sleep
    Wol Euler: or perhaps "aww, my sympathy" ;-)
    sophia Placebo: hehe ty
    sophia Placebo: bye for now
    Wol Euler: I should get ready for bed too, meeting Adams early tomorrow.
    Wol Euler: it was wonderful to be able to attend a 7pm session for once :)
    abomb Silvercloud: aw alright.
    Threedee Shepherd: OK wol, good to see you. Sleep enjoyably
    abomb Silvercloud: night
    Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care, be happy.
    Adelene Dawner: Have a good trip, Wol ^.^
    abomb Silvercloud: i think i'll go exploring. nice chat
    abomb Silvercloud: see you around.
    Threedee Shepherd: g'nite

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