2009.09.01 07:00 - Story or not

The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The very few comments are by Riddle Sideways. Who is going away to an internet-less place for the rest of this week.  These are the few comments I can add now.

Corvi and Doug talked about the retreat after wonder if it is awakening or stories.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi doug
doug Sosa: morning.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles..I guess it's pretty early for you?
doug Sosa: I notied ethe dress yesterday. Enjoy it?
doug Sosa: well, skirtand blouse.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes, it's one of my favorites.
doug Sosa: i at least put my PaB shirt on :)
doug Sosa: some change.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles. it's pretty.
doug Sosa: Yes, it is.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I meant the t''shirt.
doug Sosa: interesting that there have been well attended sessions ysterday but few retreaters.
doug Sosa: oh. :(
Corvuscorva Nightfire: really? I haven't read yesterday's logs yet.
doug Sosa: hi rid.
--BELL--
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Riddle!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I haven't seen you for a coon's age.
Riddle Sideways: good morning Corvi and Doug
Riddle Sideways wonders what exactly is a coon's age :)
doug Sosa: hm, what means "coon's age?"
Riddle Sideways: cliche
Corvuscorva Nightfire: good question..my friends in the southeast say it all the time..it means a long time..but I don't know why.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's just something we say.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: found it online..one second
doug Sosa: i hear "dog's age" but don't know whether that mans long or short.
Riddle Sideways is most sorry that I missed meeting you corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It actually refers to raccoons. The expression "in a coon's age" dates to the early 1800s, and to the folk belief that raccoons are long-lived.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: from the "straight dope"

doug Sosa: ah.
doug Sosa: i wonder how much kids use the internet to find things like that.
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the 20 year olds I know use it alot, almost without thinking.
doug Sosa: is it the smart ones we know, or are they all smart?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs..I dunno?
Riddle Sideways: all OUR kids are above average
Corvuscorva Nightfire: snickers.

doug Sosa: It was darker this mornig, season and fog. Made being awake for SL slightly harder. I wonder what waking up and going in to the 9 sec have in common?
Riddle Sideways: is that 2 separate questions:)
Riddle Sideways: waking up has several meanings
doug Sosa: i think it is one.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and several stages.
Corvuscorva Nightfire sips her coffee.
doug Sosa: well, i meant it without metaphor.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: woosh..I can't think that waking up means anyting at all without metaphor?

doug Sosa: the stages get intersting, how like the transition into and out of the 9 sec.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks aobut transition and three breaths...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: can you feel a moment of transition?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's so very fast, that 9 seconds.
doug Sosa: isn't just going from sleep to awake fairy non-metaphorical?
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks...I guess I think of it as story altogether.
doug Sosa: I try to slow it down and catch the process.
doug Sosa: the experience.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: when you think about sleep/dream...that's story...and wake...is story...I guess there are brain states
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that are not metaphor.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but isn't the rest just stories?
Riddle Sideways: stories we tell ourselves
doug Sosa: well, brain states is a story. i am thinking of the raw experience of just coming awake. It isn't brain states because I experience it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about this...
doug Sosa: and it isn't metaphoical because i am not seeing it as like something else.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but isn't that experience a story you tell yourself about what is going on? I mean...very little actually occurs to experience.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: once we name it, put a history on it..it becomes a story?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sorry..I'm thinking alot about story right now.
Riddle Sideways: Doug, are you talking about sleep not really connected to input senses, then whoosh a flood of inputs as morning breaks
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
doug Sosa: yes. though at times it is more a trickle :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs..yeah...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sips coffee and considers that.
Riddle Sideways: often in a daydream or concentration when the 15 minute gong goes off and take a 9-sec breath ?
doug Sosa: there is a way in which the story perspective transcends everything, cause the experience gets organized by us. i like that perspective but don't want to totalize it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's finding the place where there isn't story that's the trick.
doug Sosa: our vocab here seems not up to the task.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nodsnods to that.
Riddle Sideways: as usual
doug Sosa: so is there a transition between normal and 9sec that we can explore?
--BELL--
Corvuscorva Nightfire droops. I keep finding more "normal" under each thing I drop.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: more "story"
Riddle Sideways: layers of the onion?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods, slowly. I think so.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Not the magical all nothing.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just...more little somethings.
Riddle Sideways: ha, it isturtles allthe way down
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs at the image.

Riddle Sideways: again Corvi, I am sorry I did not get to meet you in RL
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..me too.
Riddle Sideways: please report what I missed atthe retreat
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm.
Riddle Sideways: no preasure...
Riddle Sideways: but report all... NOW
Riddle Sideways: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.I thought all morning what to say..and I still don't know!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: The place is beautiful.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it was great to meet each person and they were exactly as I imagined, but more themselves.
doug Sosa: On a ridge in redwood trees.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: we sat quietly alot, and then had very long PaB sessions.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: many of us grew fond of the trees.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Redwood forests are very quiet, as someone pointed out to me.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I didn't realize until that moment that I missed the cicadas.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: of my own forests.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Blue Jays there are as big as crows here.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Crows are huge.
doug Sosa: bigness wins when the struggle is for human garbage.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs. nods.
Riddle Sideways: and yet....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the place was good for what we were doing.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Someone once told me that he practiced compassion by thinking about loving a specific person..then spreading that feeling.
doug Sosa: good food right there, no distractions (excpt heat last two days).
Riddle Sideways: yes, Redwoods MAKE you contemplative
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and that place was like that, too.
doug Sosa: More about speakig to one..

Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles..yeah..there were many comments about the slow life of the redwood.
doug Sosa: "spreeading that feeling? Ah, beyond that person?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...yes..taking the example of loving someone you find easy to love.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and then imagining it a little wider.
Riddle Sideways: how to widen that
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..it's not simple.
Riddle Sideways: taking your inner glow and shining it on others
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles..yeah...exactly.
Riddle Sideways: bringing Redwood experiences back to a city
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes yes!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's one thing I was thinking about..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: taking the lightness, playfulness, contemplativeness and love of a retreat
Corvuscorva Nightfire: to the rest of my life.
Riddle Sideways: every day rush rush people won't listen to you slowly tell of Redwoods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: no
Riddle Sideways: but they will hear your smile
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Riddle Sideways: yes
doug Sosa: old cartoon, man walks up to a redwood, looks. next pane, still looks, next, the same, by the 5th he says "you are right." and walks away.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: snickers
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.
Riddle Sideways: very good
--BELL--

doug Sosa: this glow is very pleasant, touch of sadness.
Riddle Sideways: now the tough question...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: heh
doug Sosa: must go, need to dive this morning. oops, I'll wait.
Riddle Sideways: who is the different person after your retreat
doug Sosa: drive
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..
doug Sosa: ??
Corvuscorva Nightfire: different than expected? or changed by the retreat?
Riddle Sideways: your different person
Riddle Sideways: who are you now
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh
Riddle Sideways: that you were not
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...thoughtfully.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I dunno.
Riddle Sideways: hard question
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I didn't before the retreat either.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods, smiles.
doug Sosa: I am slightly more aware of the fullness of others. more cautious, even humble.

Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles warmly.
Riddle Sideways: and hopefully you can hold onto that the rest of today
Riddle Sideways: awake is a good thing
doug Sosa: it is already five days so I am hopeful. Bye for now.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye for now.
Riddle Sideways: bye, and take care
Corvuscorva Nightfire: enjoy your day.

Riddle Sideways: am sure you talked about "retreat" meaning stepping back to be able to go forward
Corvuscorva Nightfire: we didn't actually..but that is wonderful...and exactly what it meant for me.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or maybe stepping into a new direction to go forward.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: since i didn't go "back" to something I knew.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: at least not in any rl sense.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: only in Pema's sense of "your already there"
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Riddle Sideways: ah, metaphorically
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Riddle Sideways: loosens which way is back and front
Corvuscorva Nightfire: pictures herself wandering into an ambush from one set of trees and "retreating" to a new set.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: re-emerging in some unexpected place "forward"
Riddle Sideways: yes
Riddle Sideways: forward is not always the way we predicted
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah, exactly.
Riddle Sideways: and how did you deal with the (how to put this) strain of over using mental muscles that hours of sessions use
Riddle Sideways: that was not phrased good
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs..yanno..i am absolutely new to sitting..but it was amazingly easy.
Riddle Sideways: usually about the 2-3 day the muscles scream ENOUGH
Riddle Sideways: and that is where the 'break-thru' comes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I could feel the blood in my head at one point..using all my might to put stuff together.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I simply took an ibuprofin.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Riddle Sideways: those snapping of brain cob-webs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.is that what that was? it felt alot like work for a few minutes.
--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: the heavy lifting of invisible walls?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: alot like that, maybe.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or..maybe just reaarranging the bricks.
Riddle Sideways: sweating over trying to not work at it
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs and laughs
Riddle Sideways: as you can see I have no idea what you went through
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs and throws a pillow at you.
Riddle Sideways: which is why am glad we did not meet in RL
Corvuscorva Nightfire: worst thing about that meeting space is that the pillows were plentiful but too heavy to throw.

Corvuscorva Nightfire dies laughing, hugging one of the heavy pillows as she rolls on the ground.
Riddle Sideways: figurtively throwing a pillow is enough
Corvuscorva Nightfire: snickers.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mostly I stick to that.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the smiling and laughing transcends avatars, though.
Riddle Sideways: yes, there is that
Corvuscorva Nightfire: grins.
Riddle Sideways: gestures
Riddle Sideways: a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse
Riddle Sideways: that cliche is a coon's age old
Corvuscorva Nightfire continues to roll upon the floor laughing.
Riddle Sideways: hopefully rolling on the floor is the thing you bring to others from your retreat
Corvuscorva Nightfire: damn problem with all these people attracted to the concept of "play as being" is that they are too funny.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles...I brought that with me.
Riddle Sideways: oooooo
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's about all I got.
Riddle Sideways: we can be all tooo cerial at times
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..I don't claim not to cry and yell..but I do laugh alot.
Riddle Sideways: one possible secret is that laughter is where it starts
Riddle Sideways: we laugh out of a pain
Riddle Sideways: we laugh as a cry
Riddle Sideways: we laugh as a cob web snaps
Riddle Sideways: we laugh at puppies and redwoods
Riddle Sideways: and we laugh at others
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles warmly at that last.
Riddle Sideways: and we laugh at ourselvers most
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: woosh..
Riddle Sideways: play and continue play
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.

Riddle Sideways: a tough concept... to practice or play
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not so tough
Corvuscorva Nightfire: they seem more than vaguely related
Riddle Sideways: are you practicing your piece or playing piano
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmm
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: (guitar, badly which seems a perfect metaphor for me)
Riddle Sideways: playing in front of an audience
Corvuscorva Nightfire shudders
Riddle Sideways: practicing medicine
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I see play and practice as the same...kids learn by playing..which is practice.
Riddle Sideways: exactly
Corvuscorva Nightfire: practice..doing the same thing over and over in slight variations.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: moving but not to a goal.
Riddle Sideways: play with variations
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: seeing where you wind up.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or where you are moving, maybe.
Riddle Sideways: back to forward isnot always that way
--BELL--

Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah...my time is up...real life calls, quite literally.
Riddle Sideways: yes, me too
Riddle Sideways: thank you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thank you, Riddle I'm glad I got to see you here.
Riddle Sideways: next time
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles