2009.09.17 13:00 - Does our history define us?

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

I was alone for the first 20 minutes or so.

Storm Nordwind: Hi Qt
Qt Core: Hi Storm
Storm Nordwind: I thought today I was going to be all alone! :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: heya, you both :)
Qt Core: you still may, i'm retrying the linux client... it always crashed
Qt Core: hi yakuzza
Storm Nordwind: Hi Yak!
Qt Core: are you still movings things around Storm ?
Storm Nordwind: I am!
Yakuzza Lethecus: did you send a seacontainer ?
Storm Nordwind: Ah yes... in RL I have a small shipment on its way. In SL I have been reforming our lands
Qt Core: your past life reaching you in US ?
Storm Nordwind: Not much of that thankfully! :)
Qt Core: (thinking an how many things i would bring with me if moving)
Storm Nordwind: Hi arabella
arabella Ella: Hiya!
Qt Core: hi ara
Storm Nordwind: I gave nearly all of it away Qt
Storm Nordwind: It was like a little death
Qt Core: forniture ok, my my books...
Storm Nordwind: I kept my Buddhist books - they're on the way
Qt Core: first my = but
Storm Nordwind: My furniture went
Storm Nordwind: my guitars and amplifiers given away
arabella Ella: must have been quite tough Storm!
arabella Ella: sounds painful
Storm Nordwind: Not as tough as you might think
Storm Nordwind: Attachment is tougher
arabella Ella: true
Qt Core: it depends were you still playing them ?
arabella Ella: are you a magpie?
Storm Nordwind: And forking out $10 per cubic foot for shipping is tough too!!
arabella Ella: :)
Storm Nordwind: Me a magpie? no!
arabella Ella: he he
Storm Nordwind: Yes I was playing them every day Qt
arabella Ella: i guess it must be a relief once it is all over
arabella Ella: feeling of lightness of being
arabella Ella: as in Kundera's book
Storm Nordwind: But it was my birthday last month, and my new wife insisted on buying me a new guitar
arabella Ella: cool
Qt Core: i'm wondering what you are going to get as a chrostmas present ;-)
Qt Core: :-D
Storm Nordwind: :)
arabella Ella: I wonder ... why do we as humans tend to get so attached to our material possessions?
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: because perhaps we've never tried to let them all go. It's remarkably easy once you have no other choice
Qt Core: maybe it is (leaving greed apart) as they help define us, both to others and to ourselves
Storm Nordwind: Anyway... I wouldn't have got the best guitar I've ever played if I hadn't made room for it by giving everything else away!
arabella Ella: :)
Storm Nordwind: Ah Qt... I have to disagree. Nothing I own defines me, to myself or others. I suspect I'm more defined by what I do than what I have!
arabella Ella: perhaps some material possessions also provide a (perhaps false?) sense of security to many?
Qt Core: i should have added i don't always agree
Qt Core: with myself
Storm Nordwind: haha Qt! :) And I suspect you're right ara.
arabella Ella: i personally find that when loss of material possessions occurs, through circumstances beyond our control, then it is fine, but many of us tend to re-accumulate stuff once again
Storm Nordwind: Sure!
Storm Nordwind: Interesting point though... what is it that defines us?
arabella Ella: mmmmmmmmmm
Qt Core: maybe i'm thinking about single items that come to have sentimental/memory values, not just things
Storm Nordwind: Is there anything at all that does? I mean *really* does?
arabella Ella: interesting question ...
arabella Ella reflects ...
Storm Nordwind: To define us implies that separation is real
arabella Ella: perhaps what defines us varies and depends a great deal on the attitudes we have and the circumstances in which we live our lives
arabella Ella: with some people being more materialistic than others who live more simple lives
Storm Nordwind: It's a profound question isn't it
arabella Ella: it certainly is
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps considering what people remembered us by, when we're gone. even passed away, would tell us
arabella Ella: could it be that our histories define us?
Storm Nordwind: What do you think?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i would agree on that
Storm Nordwind: Supposing you don't carry a sense of your own history around with you?
arabella Ella: i personally think it is certain achievements that define me
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey wol
arabella Ella: mmmmm
Storm Nordwind: Hi Wol
arabella Ella: now that is an even more difficult question Storm :)
Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
Qt Core: hi Wol
arabella Ella: if we dont carry our histories with us what do we then have ... what remains?
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol
Yakuzza Lethecus: can someone ever be late here ?
Qt Core: our future ?
Storm Nordwind: Haha - today I'm trying to unfrazzle my brain after whirlwind land dealing, and the way I'm doing it seems to be with profound questions!
arabella Ella: he he
arabella Ella: what would you have Storm if you did not carry your history around with you?
Storm Nordwind: You'd have me as I am right now!
Storm Nordwind: We did an exploration into just this at the PaB retreat
arabella Ella: wow cool
Storm Nordwind: That was part of it
arabella Ella: and could you say more please?
Storm Nordwind: I'll not detail it all...
arabella Ella: pls?
Storm Nordwind: but the first stage was to consider yourself (in a brief timed meditation), as you stand with all your history and all your sense of self from that history.
Storm Nordwind: The second stage was to drop that history and just see yourself with your personality as it is now.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fael
arabella Ella: Hiya Fael
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
Storm Nordwind: The third stage tried to go beyond personality etc etc
Qt Core: hi Fael
Wol Euler: hello fael
Storm Nordwind: I found that the 1st stage was very artifical for me because I'm always in the now, never carrying the history
Storm Nordwind: It was an effort to force myself to go through my history!
arabella Ella: :)
arabella Ella: even though your history made you what you are today?
Storm Nordwind: I'm conscious of what I am... like a rock with bits knocked of - I'm the shape I am partly because of the past
Storm Nordwind: But I am conscious of the current shape, and I don't associate all the dents and corners with any past that made them
Wol Euler nods
--BELL--
Fael Illyar smiles 'I like that way of thinking.'
Storm Nordwind: I find it's immensely freeing to think this way :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, I can see how that is :)
arabella Ella: yes now i see what you mean
arabella Ella: so if i may ask ... beyond personality ... image ... character ... what comes then?
arabella Ella: is it like a blank slate ... or is that possible?
Fael Illyar: perhaps more like personality that depends mostly on who you're talking to?
Qt Core: i can "rationally" understand that but it seem very far from me
Storm Nordwind: hmmm... that's a good question. We discussed it and tried a few things. But I suspect that a SL is not the place to go into it. You'll have to trust me on that! :)
arabella Ella: i think Qt it is living a life with no regrets, a rejection of 'what could have been' and an appreciation of the 'now' and the 'future'
Storm Nordwind: Rien ne rien, non je ne regrette rien! :)
Qt Core: sadly i'm mostly in past and future and rarely in the now
arabella Ella: :)
Wol Euler: heh
Wol Euler: I have a hell of a lot of regrets, actually, and they are almost all things I didn't do.
Storm Nordwind: Ah yes... that is often the acid test Wol
arabella Ella: i dont see any point in dwelling on regret in life
Storm Nordwind: A common regret (I'm told) is "I wish I'd taken more risks"
Wol Euler nods
Fael Illyar: one thing about regretting something you did or didn't... I find it kind of like wishing you weren't what you are.
arabella Ella: but ... if one regrets not having taken risks ... it is never too late to get started and to move on
Wol Euler smiles. Yes but ...
Storm Nordwind: if you want to be other than you are, is that a bad thing Fael?
Qt Core: i don't dwell in it but sometimes when you see around something that could be the outcome of a different choice then a little regret wave hit me, just a little moment
Fael Illyar: Storm, that's up to you :)
Storm Nordwind smiles
arabella Ella: apologies for pushing this further Storm ... but when dropping first history then personality ... could it be similar to encountering an avi on day one in SL?
Storm Nordwind: Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that ara...
Storm Nordwind: It seems SO long ago for me! :)
arabella Ella: cos the thing is ... when we get started here we possess neither history not personality to a great extent
Storm Nordwind: But are we a blank slate?
arabella Ella: and many of our histories remain ... hidden?
arabella Ella: i guess we start to project our personality from the start
arabella Ella: or the personality we wish to project
Fael Illyar: we have histories but... a lot of it stays hidden at first.
Storm Nordwind: At least one personality, in some cases!
arabella Ella: or multiple personalities for some
Fael Illyar: Hello What :)
arabella Ella: Hiya What
What Hax: hi ^^
Wol Euler: hello what
Storm Nordwind waves
Qt Core: hi What
What Hax: greetings all*
arabella Ella: to me dropping personality too sounds a bit like re-birth ... altho even re-birth involves the projection of personality once again
Fael Illyar: isn't personality usually understood to be unchanging?
Fael Illyar: is it personality anymore when it starts changing fast or faster?
Storm Nordwind: Is there anything at all that is unchanging? And if so over what period?
arabella Ella: i think there are psychologists that distinguish between personality and character ... but i dont see that distinction much myself ... and i think they say that personality is unchanging ... don't think i agree with that
Storm Nordwind needs to remind people of the Ways of Knowing workshop that is about to start in the Kira Cafe
Fael Illyar: me neither
arabella Ella: oh yes thanks for the reminder Storm
arabella Ella: i think i will make my way to Kira
--BELL--
arabella Ella: bye everyone
Fael Illyar waves goodbye to ara.
Storm Nordwind knows the balloon will take you there if you want a gentle ride
Wol Euler: bye ara
Qt Core: bye ara
What Hax: bye
Storm Nordwind: Bye ara!
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
Storm Nordwind: Well I must apologise... I am not staying on today, and I need to sort some things out before part of the world goes to bed!
Wol Euler: oh, right, I must go too. Goodnight all, see you anon.
Qt Core: ok, bye then
Fael Illyar: Good night Wol :)
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
What Hax: Nice to meet you
Wol Euler: goodnight!
What Hax: nice to meet you ^^
Fael Illyar: Well, I'll head out as well
Fael Illyar: See you all later :)
Qt Core: hi Fef