2009.09.06 19:00 - Gifts

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

doug Sosa and Pila Mulligan join me followed by Archmage Atlantis.  The initial discussions find an interesting patters that Pile summorized later when we were looking for a topic later.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Doug
doug Sosa: hi steve :)
doug Sosa: I've only got a few minutes tonight.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila
doug Sosa: ah, pila.
stevenaia Michinaga: what;s for dinner doug?
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve and Doug
doug Sosa: I wish i could invite you over. i like this little crowd that often gets together. Let's see.
Pila Mulligan: :) thanks
doug Sosa: Some stir fried vegs from the garden, a salad, some tofu. Chard, corn..
Pila Mulligan: yummy
doug Sosa: I had a lunch out at point reyenes, bolonese with lamb. terrific.
stevenaia Michinaga: nice, are you a vegetarian?
doug Sosa: no, but the tendency is there.
doug Sosa: hi arc
Pila Mulligan: ... and I could bring some of the watermelon that are just now ripening
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Archmage
Pila Mulligan: hi Arch
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Doug
Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Pila, Steve
Archmage Atlantis: No chard for me please
Archmage Atlantis: The rest sounds wonderful
doug Sosa: oh the way we do it, really good. no bitterness, right from the garden..
Pila Mulligan: does your garden have eggplant Doug?
Archmage Atlantis: Must be like seafood & fish, if i get to far inland, it's usually awful
Archmage Atlantis: Once on gets used to fresh, nothing else compares
Archmage Atlantis: *one
Pila Mulligan: eggplant and corn are both foods with flavors that seem to improve with a decrease in time from picking to the table
stevenaia Michinaga: eating near foods always seems to be better, lucky californians
doug Sosa: yes, and this year we have worked to get more from the garden.
stevenaia Michinaga: *near
doug Sosa: I love the time weeding. it is like 9 sec. drop concepts and go with experience. you lean to tell a weed just by the resistance of the roots..
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: lear=learn
Archmage Atlantis: The black variety, or a white or purple eggplant.....I like them better usually less seedy and milder
Pila Mulligan: eggplant is a very substantial vegetable
Pila Mulligan: like breadfruit
Pila Mulligan: almost meaty
Archmage Atlantis: That was meant as a question for Doug
Pila Mulligan: ah, what type :)
doug Sosa: we have the dark, forgotten the variety.
doug Sosa: or maybe, dark purple?
Pila Mulligan: the thick one or Japanese thin is style?
Pila Mulligan: thin*
Archmage Atlantis: From a seed company, or a heritage variety
Archmage Atlantis: Ah, Japanese most likely
doug Sosa: i is ignorant
Pila Mulligan: my watermelon are a rare breed
Pila Mulligan: according to the seed package
doug Sosa: Pila are you near honolulu?
Pila Mulligan: nope
Pila Mulligan: Big Island
doug Sosa: I'll be there last week of oct.
doug Sosa: shucks.
Pila Mulligan: just a hop away
Pila Mulligan: like bus service
doug Sosa: I remember that now. Hope can make us forget.
doug Sosa: forget
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: what;s a hop, 10 miles across water?
Pila Mulligan: 200
stevenaia Michinaga: oh
stevenaia Michinaga: more a leap
Pila Mulligan: but still like bus service
doug Sosa: rabbit hop.
Archmage Atlantis: Prop planes, yes?
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: jets
Archmage Atlantis: What seating capacity
Pila Mulligan: 737s mostly
Archmage Atlantis: Not bad
doug Sosa: ok, corn just got in the water (not my doing but ..) so bye for this evening.
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Doug
Pila Mulligan: have a nice meal Doug
Archmage Atlantis: I used to have to fly prop or small jets from Nashville to Charlotte, WV on business
Archmage Atlantis: I hated those
Archmage Atlantis: Plus the Charlotte airport was on the side of a mountain with short runways,......It was Eek!! every time we landed
Pila Mulligan: the De Havilland Dash is not so bad, but I agree generally, they are not comfortable
Archmage Atlantis: I always had to been over double to get in and down the aisle
Archmage Atlantis: Another meeting with no Guardian? - I hear they had to give up their plots on SL due to budget adjustments
stevenaia Michinaga: I am the guardian sunday nights
Archmage Atlantis: Ah, didn't see you claim the meeting
stevenaia Michinaga: before you arrived
Bellily Millar: greetings
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Belilly
Pila Mulligan: hi Belilly
stevenaia Michinaga: your parrot looks like it's sleeping Bellily
Pila Mulligan: how are you?
Bellily Millar: lol steve
Bellily Millar: i don't know how to control the parrot, but have always wanted one
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Bellily Millar: fine pila, hope you are too
Archmage Atlantis: I don't think one controls any animal, usually they train us
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, my cat made me say that
Pila Mulligan: I'm fine too, thanks -- but the lag is fierce tonight for me
Archmage Atlantis: If my cat, fish and birds don't get what they want, it's heck till they do
Pila Mulligan: took two triee there :)
Pila Mulligan: tires*
Pila Mulligan: tries*
Archmage Atlantis: The koi are getting so big, I'm not sure I won't find one walking through the house one day

Bellily Millar: i hear ya pila. it's so frustrating when the lag is large
Bellily Millar: grin mage
Bellily Millar: I didn't mean "control" in any sense applying to real life animals.. just wonder if i can make this parrot sit upright in SL
Archmage Atlantis: I understand
Bellily Millar: i'm sorry i always come late when i come .. what is the topic?
stevenaia Michinaga: your parrot
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Bellily Millar: hehehe
Bellily Millar: ok.
Archmage Atlantis: Chard, eggplant, Hawaiian transport and now your parrot, actually
Bellily Millar: it doesn't have a name yet
stevenaia Michinaga: but if you have a topic, feel free
Pila Mulligan is going to slip away due to lag problems -- nice to visit with you all -- bye fr now
Bellily Millar: mmmmmm chard mmmmm my favorite green
Bellily Millar: take good care pila
Archmage Atlantis: Take care Pila
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pila
Bellily Millar: whoosh. pila is gone
stevenaia Michinaga: Sunday nights tend to be quiet sometimes
Bellily Millar: quiet is nice on a sunday evening
stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes it helps you focus
Archmage Atlantis: I like the walk to the center of the fountain, then ascend to the sky departure I have seen
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Whoosh is all I can manage......
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
Bellily Millar: aloha paradise
Bellily Millar: hope you are well
Archmage Atlantis: Hello Paradise
Paradise Tennant: hiya steve bellity .. arch :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Archmage Atlantis: I actually wrote down a topic earlier
stevenaia Michinaga: listens
Archmage Atlantis: Well, things being what they are, and a conversation about free items earlier
stevenaia Michinaga: hello bene
Paradise Tennant: hiya bene
Benedizione Vita: hello all

Archmage Atlantis: Led me to think that "what is the nature/essence" of a gift might be interesting
Bellily Millar: grins to you bene
Bellily Millar: i like your name
Archmage Atlantis: Hi bene
Benedizione Vita: thank you bellily
Benedizione Vita: hi AA
stevenaia Michinaga: a gift?
stevenaia Michinaga: a thing or blessing?
stevenaia Michinaga: or either
Archmage Atlantis: Could be, but more if I give you a gift of an item.....I have an example
Archmage Atlantis: A friend gave me a gift of a large cage for a cat
stevenaia Michinaga: usually non-material gifts have a greater impact
stevenaia Michinaga: like the gift of love
Archmage Atlantis: She said it was mine, but then added I had to return it to her if I decided I didn't need it
Paradise Tennant: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: love works the same why, so you are talking property issues or ethics?
Paradise Tennant: hmm gifting is a way of expressing generosity .. connection .. regard .. respect .. friendship it is almost a form of material communication
Archmage Atlantis: She and I got into this discussion, I said it was a gift of use, she insisted it was a gift of the cage, unless I didn't need it
stevenaia Michinaga: a gift of a loan?
Bellily Millar: doesn't matter if it was a gift or a loan. she wanted to impact your life in a practical way. blessing with the practical is also a form of love
Archmage Atlantis: Exactly
Archmage Atlantis: I would see it that way now, Belilly
Archmage Atlantis: Then I saw it differently
Bellily Millar: and the practical hates to be wasted, thus the "if you don't need" statement
Bellily Millar: how did you see it, arch?
Archmage Atlantis: That is was a loan with an obligation
Archmage Atlantis: A gift is free of obligation
stevenaia Michinaga: so even if you didn;t have a cat, you wouldn't think to return it if she asked?
Archmage Atlantis: If I still had it, and she asked, after the cat passed on, sure
Paradise Tennant: no strings .. but in this instance .. constraint was a practical one ....perhaps she knows someone else who also needs one :)
Bellily Millar: maybe there are different categories of gifts, different all based in love in various forms
stevenaia Michinaga: she just asked before instead of after
Archmage Atlantis: But now if I accepted, I had to keep up with it
Archmage Atlantis: To be to be a gift, it would be given without expectation or obligation
stevenaia Michinaga: that;s one type of gift
Bellily Millar: arch, what about the gift of "tough love?"
Paradise Tennant: some times the greatest gifts are ones that .. are the most difficult to give
Archmage Atlantis: Thank you Bellily, love was the next touchpoing
Archmage Atlantis: point
--BELL--
Bellily Millar: life's a mixed and confusing bag... and it's long, so the rules change a few times.. one definition is never enough
Archmage Atlantis: Although "tough love" is a conversation in it's own right
Paradise Tennant: lol well put
Benedizione Vita: has the relationship of gift with identification been discussed yet?
Paradise Tennant: there are always gray areas
Archmage Atlantis: No Bene
stevenaia Michinaga: please explain Bene
Benedizione Vita: may be interesting, given idea of dropping identification
Benedizione Vita: well, one (who?) can ask
Benedizione Vita: who is giving, and to whom?
Benedizione Vita: and what is it about the ting given that defines it as belonging to one person and then another?
Paradise Tennant: hmmmm mostly life's great gifts are the ones we are not really aware of . really the job is fully appreciate what we have
stevenaia Michinaga: aww, that identification
Bellily Millar: i don't understand how you mean "identification."
Bellily Millar: is that a standard PaB term?
stevenaia Michinaga: no
stevenaia Michinaga: I thought he was talking about the identification of the participants in the gift giving
stevenaia Michinaga: bene?
Benedizione Vita: close, steve
stevenaia Michinaga: what;s important is to try to be clear
Benedizione Vita: I think, in the idea of gift giving
Benedizione Vita: maybe there is some sense of "I am this person who is giving a gift, and this thing is mine, and I give it to that person and then it is theirs"
Bellily Millar: go on, bene
Benedizione Vita: so if we look here: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Information/Hints
Archmage Atlantis: I agree Bene
Paradise Tennant: hmm really think we are on a rental program ..and nothing is really ours or anyone else's for very long .. ownership is a myth
Benedizione Vita: we can think about what it might mean for gift giving to take place
Benedizione Vita: without this kind of "I am this separate thing giving this separate thing to another separate thing"
Benedizione Vita: and then the whole presentation is more relaxed
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Benedizione Vita: what kind of apprecation/gratitude comes out of a presentation like that? maybe it is much more potent than an "I am a person and that person gave me something very nice"
Bellily Millar: interesting
Archmage Atlantis: I am Ozmandias, look upon my works........or something like that you mean Paradise

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

Archmage Atlantis: None of us are permanent
Benedizione Vita: how do you know that archmage? what if I am? ;^)
Paradise Tennant: ;) yes well on this ... plane no
Paradise Tennant: :))
Benedizione Vita: which plane?
Archmage Atlantis: the one from Honolulu to the Big Island
Benedizione Vita: hahaha
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Benedizione Vita: 2=x+y+z
Paradise Tennant: :))
Bellily Millar: what about the component of pride in gifting? some gifts are given in order to make the giver feel a certain way, some gifts are given even at the expense of hardship of the giver
stevenaia Michinaga: manipulative gifts?
Archmage Atlantis: To me, Bene, the first is not a gift
Bellily Millar: yeah
Bellily Millar: agree, arch
Bellily Millar: but we all do it sometimes...
Bellily Millar: it's hard to give a pure, pure, pure gift often
Paradise Tennant: well even our attention ..our respect .. human warmth is a gift ..
Benedizione Vita: I'm going to play HaSatan (or being) here a bit and say "I never give impure gifts"
Paradise Tennant: that is easy to do with practice :))
Bellily Millar: indeed, paradise
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Bellily, that is why I think it is a word worthy of discussion
Paradise Tennant: :)) well I am going to excuse myself and give myself the gift of an early night .. thank you all .. big wave :))
Archmage Atlantis: If I give a pair of SL earrings to someone's avatar, is that a gift if I hope to create interest in me
Benedizione Vita: goodnight paradise :)
Bellily Millar: take good care, nite nite paradise
Archmage Atlantis: Nite Paradise
Paradise Tennant: goodnight bene ..arch bellity .. steve sleep well :))
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go too
Benedizione Vita: and I'm going to follow paradise and steve out the door :)
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
Benedizione Vita: goodnight all :)
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Nite to you both