2009.07.20 19:00 - SL and RL personna

The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.

Threedee Shepherd: hello Fox
Fox Monacular: Hello Threedee
Threedee Shepherd: I assume from your profile you have been to a PaB session before?
Fox Monacular: yes, on a few occassions in the last 3 days
Threedee Shepherd: This particular time seems to be lightly attended.
Fox Monacular: yes, the one 12 hours ago was actually packed :)
Fox Monacular: a lion and a fox... hmmm
Threedee Shepherd: Mornings don't agree with me and that's still morning here in Colorado
Fox Monacular: :) it's late evening here in Montreal
Threedee Shepherd: yes, early eveing here, now
Fox Monacular: ah, ok, you mean earlier session
Threedee Shepherd: yes
Threedee Shepherd: What interests you about PaB?
Fox Monacular: the fact that it even exists is quite interesting
Fox Monacular: it's hard to say... the discussions are interesting, I feel that people have similar interests and complimentary knowledge
Fox Monacular: for how long have you been doing it?
Threedee Shepherd: ayes, the complimentary knowledge is a wonderful part of PaB
Threedee Shepherd: ah yes
--BELL--
Threedee Shepherd: Is there something you would like to discuss now?
--BELL--
Wol Euler: hello threedee
Threedee Shepherd: Hello Wol, I'm glad to see you to say thanks for putting up the logs for me from last month. I get irresponsible with logs sometimes :)
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Wol Euler: no worries, I'm glad to do it.
Wol Euler: I'm in the US, using hotel internet and thus utterly unreiable and laggy :(
Threedee Shepherd: Ahh, Fox, Welcome back
Wol Euler: hello fox
Threedee Shepherd: Both of you are still "white clound" on my screen
Threedee Shepherd: *clouds
Fox Monacular: sorry Threedee, my router just died
Wol Euler: and fox on mine too. given the lag, it may take quite a while before my updated appearance gets to you
Threedee Shepherd: Ahh, Wol, there you are
Wol Euler waves
Fox Monacular: ihey
Fox Monacular: hey
Fox Monacular: Threedee, you're a cloud for me too...
Threedee Shepherd: Could be your browser
Threedee Shepherd: did you crash earlier?
Fox Monacular: yes, my router went offline
Fox Monacular: ok, i'll try to log out and login
Wol Euler: there!
Wol Euler: that fixed it for me
Threedee Shepherd: I got a new router and fiber-optic DSL about 10 days ago and it has been stable as can be
Fox Monacular: i can see you!
Threedee Shepherd: And I you
Wol Euler: is it faster, trhree?
Fox Monacular: yeah, i need a new router i know that...
Threedee Shepherd: 17 MB download 800 KB up
Fox Monacular: wow
Fox Monacular: nice
Threedee Shepherd: I have been pleased with the speed and the expense was almost the same as I was paying for 2.5 MB actual
Wol Euler: wow
Wol Euler: how many fps are you getting right now, for example?
Threedee Shepherd: Actually. not that many 14, but I am confident that's SL
Wol Euler snorts. 4.7 here. 14 sounds wonderful.
Wol Euler: hello ade, nice to see you.
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Threedee Shepherd: There are times I get 25-30, so I think LL is the throttle
Threedee Shepherd: Hiya Love
Adelene Dawner: ^.^ Hiya, Love.
sophia Placebo: Hi !
Wol Euler: sophia! hello!
Threedee Shepherd: hello sophia
Wol Euler: you are up early, or very late.
sophia Placebo: Hi Wol you back !
sophia Placebo: i didnt sleep
Wol Euler: not yet, I am in New Jersey. I wouldn't be here at this time if I were home.
sophia Placebo: oh
Threedee Shepherd: Where in NJ, wol?
Wol Euler: New Brunswick :)
Threedee Shepherd: At Rutgers?
Wol Euler: yep, meeting Adamses, Fefonz and stevie tomorrow for RL dinner
Wol Euler says meaningfully "I was in North Carolina yesterday"
Threedee Shepherd: nice
--BELL--
Wol Euler: it was :)
Adelene Dawner: :D
Threedee Shepherd: so, perhaps a topic to discuss is how meeting someone in FL affects your subsequent perception of them in SL?
Wol Euler: there were pancakes.
sophia Placebo: :))
Wol Euler curses teh lag monster and agrees to the topic.
sophia Placebo: so ? what ws your preception after meeting poeple in RL ?
Wol Euler: well, last week I was at a wedding in RL of SL people.
Threedee Shepherd: I hear them in SL, colored by how they are in FL. I am not saying that is good/bad, just different
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: I found when meeting SL people in RL, that I saw pixels overlaid on their meat avs
Threedee Shepherd: hehehe
Wol Euler: looking at them, I saw the SL avs taht I know
sophia Placebo looking at threedee
Wol Euler: and when we meet again in SL, the reverse happens. RL faces overlap the SL avs
Wol Euler: but for me it made surprisingly little difference, within 30 minutes max I was unaware which kind of av I was looking at.
Wol Euler: hugging meat avs in RL is more fun than hugging pixel avs in SL, I will say taht.
Adelene Dawner: :D
sophia Placebo: must be the nature of poeple of Pab , no rp here ^^ real poeple with real thoughts
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Fox Monacular: good night everyone, not only my router is crashing, but myself too..
Fox Monacular: see you next time
Wol Euler: bye fox, take care
Adelene Dawner: Have a good one, Fox.
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, after a time the "dualness" wears off. Also, given that the one time I meet the groupd of may PaB folks in Princeton, earlier this year, there were too many of them for me to permanently correlate the RL person with the SL Av, except for a few. My brain has that problem even in RL ;>
sophia Placebo: bye fox !
Threedee Shepherd: bye fox
Wol Euler: there was one odd thing, come to think of it. I have trouble putting RL names to RL faces, I can forget new names while I am hearing them
Wol Euler: but I had no trouble at all putting SL names to RL faces. Those all "took" immediately
Threedee Shepherd: me too, routinely
Threedee Shepherd: hhm
Wol Euler: my theory (which may be crap) is that I find storing new faces easier than storing new names
Wol Euler: and the SL names were not new.
Wol Euler: so linking them was painless and simple
sophia Placebo nods
Threedee Shepherd: sensible conjecture
Wol Euler smiles
Wol Euler: looking at Ade's lion now, I imagine that I can see similarities to her RL face and bearing :)
Adelene Dawner giggles.
Threedee Shepherd giggles, too
Wol Euler: yeah, I know.
--BELL--
Wol Euler: has anyone else met SL people in RL?
sophia Placebo: i guess i did not
Threedee Shepherd: I am thinking about how I construct another person's *persona*. It is clearly different here using type chat. Purer in some ways, perhaps more limited in others.
Adelene Dawner: I'd agree to that.
Wol Euler: more content-based, perhaps? more emphasis on ideas and statements?
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, although personality does come through for people I see here often.
Adelene Dawner: I'm sure I can't pin the difference down precisely, but it's significant enough that I can get a handle on someone's personality in a few months or even sometimes a few weeks, here, and it takes me at least a year to figure that out in RL, if I can at all. (RL is *hard*)
Wol Euler: ooh, that is interesting. Fewer distractions? Distilled essence of person?
Threedee Shepherd: I suspect that there is too much *noise* relative to signal in RL, for you
Adelene Dawner: Indeed.
Wol Euler nods
Adelene Dawner: I'm also bolder with strangers, here.
sophia Placebo: poeple say , poeple do in may times those are 2 diffrent things
Adelene Dawner nods
Adelene Dawner: It's easier to misinterpret, when you're seeing more doing than saying.
sophia Placebo: being a written sort of communication , there is a bigger space to corect and take back what you wrote
Wol Euler: brb, need to find the laptop's power cord
Threedee Shepherd: Ade, that is interesting because people's body language is harder for them to disguise than their words, often.
Adelene Dawner considers.
sophia Placebo: hi abomb
abomb Silvercloud: hello
Threedee Shepherd: hello ab
sophia Placebo: have you been here befor ?
abomb Silvercloud: yes
Adelene Dawner: It gets complicated, there. I've had enough of a habit of wanting to get people to leave me alone, through my life, that it's just about impossible to completely drop that signal unless I'm very comfortable. I'm pretty sure part of the body language I see is a reaction to that.
Threedee Shepherd: ahh, good, you came back
sophia Placebo: ok ^^
Threedee Shepherd: yes, in FL, you send signals even before any words are spoken
abomb Silvercloud: it's hard for me to make my body language convey what i'm actually wanting to express
sophia Placebo: i guess facial expressions are not voluntary in most of time
Wol Euler: back, hello abomb
abomb Silvercloud: hi wol
Threedee Shepherd: I suspect that *trying* to have specific body-language is too difficult. the automaticity of it keeps pressing back.
abomb Silvercloud: yeah, some people look like they are frowning when their face is relaxed
Adelene Dawner nods at Three.
--BELL--
abomb Silvercloud: sometimes, a specific type of body language is demanded by the situation, though
abomb Silvercloud: such as an interview.
sophia Placebo: you should look confidant no?
abomb Silvercloud: yeah, as well as the "strong handshake" and being friendly.
Threedee Shepherd: yes, but I think that when you *try* to look a specific way, the other person notes that is it effortful and discounts it
abomb Silvercloud: that's an interesting point.
sophia Placebo: agrees with three
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: the Hollywood smile
Wol Euler: of the high-pitched voice and fixed grin that many adults use on children
Wol Euler: *or
abomb Silvercloud: that is interesting, that people change the way they act because they are interacting with a child
abomb Silvercloud: wouldn't it make more sense to interact normally in order to teach them?
Wol Euler: 42.
Threedee Shepherd: I taught college students many of whom were preparing for Medical School and who asked about their interview strategy. My advice was always: Be yourself, an interviewer may have trouble figuring out who you are, but can always tell when you are *being* who you are not.
Threedee Shepherd: Fact: Babioes hear the higher registers better
abomb Silvercloud: interesting.
Wol Euler: ah, so it isn't just a silly and annoying afectation.
Threedee Shepherd: no, it is something parents "pick up" without even realizing it and then it has become sort of a cultural habit
Wol Euler: huh
Adelene Dawner: They've actually studied how parents talk to children, and I forget how they figured it out, but it's 'designed' to help them learn to speak... the interesting thing is that even though people talk similarly to pets, the specific qualities that are involved in teaching babies to speak are not present when speaking to pets.
sophia Placebo: can the reverse works ? looking confidant to feel confidant ?
Threedee Shepherd: interesting
abomb Silvercloud: i always speak high pitched to pets, haha
abomb Silvercloud: i'm sure if i had a child i'd do the same.
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, to some extent. Muscle tone and posture does interact with cognition.
abomb Silvercloud: someone told me that if you force yourself to smile, it'll eventually make you smile...
Wol Euler: mmhmm, that works (for me)
Wol Euler: si that perhaps like mirror neurons working on oneself?
abomb Silvercloud: perhaps.
abomb Silvercloud: i wonder if the same thing happens when you see someone else smiling?
Threedee Shepherd: yes, Wol, in a sense it is. Brain-body is all one, in an interactive sense.
Threedee Shepherd: I thin so abomb, and there is a complicating factor I have long-noticed
abomb Silvercloud: what factor is that?
Threedee Shepherd: In my years of teaching it was obvious that females have *learned* to have a default smile on their face and males do not.
Wol Euler: O.O
abomb Silvercloud: i don't feel like i have a default smile on my face.
sophia Placebo: i do
Adelene Dawner: I'm moderately certain I don't. But I'm odd.
abomb Silvercloud: many people say that i look bored or even sad when i'm just deep in thought and not paying attention to my facial expression
sophia Placebo: default face
abomb Silvercloud: but if this were the case for the majority of females, why do you think it happens?
--BELL--
Threedee Shepherd: I think it is cultural (I only know about USA) and that it has to do with sexuality and mating.
sophia Placebo: see you all later
abomb Silvercloud: bye sophia
Wol Euler: in my childhood it was explicitly taught. People said "Smile, dear"
Threedee Shepherd: bye sophia
Wol Euler: bye sophia, goodnight. I hope you can sleep
abomb Silvercloud: interesting
Adelene Dawner: cya, Soph.
Adelene Dawner: I got a bit of 'why aren't you smiling' noise, but ignored it. :)
sophia Placebo: it is morning and im sleepy already , i dont want to sleep though , adjusting my biological clock :)
Wol Euler: not eveyrone has your strength of will, Ade :)
abomb Silvercloud: no one ever really told me to smile, but usually if i wasn't smiling people would always be asking me "what's wrong?"
Threedee Shepherd: from where to where, sophia
sophia Placebo: from jobless time zone to jobfull time zone !
Threedee Shepherd: I went just the other way, in retirement
Wol Euler: ooooh! congratulations!!
sophia Placebo: that is from more than 8 hours sleep to less than 5 hours sleep
Wol Euler: or perhaps "aww, my sympathy" ;-)
sophia Placebo: hehe ty
sophia Placebo: bye for now
Wol Euler: I should get ready for bed too, meeting Adams early tomorrow.
Wol Euler: it was wonderful to be able to attend a 7pm session for once :)
abomb Silvercloud: aw alright.
Threedee Shepherd: OK wol, good to see you. Sleep enjoyably
abomb Silvercloud: night
Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care, be happy.
Adelene Dawner: Have a good trip, Wol ^.^
abomb Silvercloud: i think i'll go exploring. nice chat
abomb Silvercloud: see you around.
Threedee Shepherd: g'nite