2009.09.06 19:00 - Gifts

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Doug

doug Sosa: hi steve :)

doug Sosa: I've only got a few minutes tonight.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila

doug Sosa: ah, pila.

stevenaia Michinaga: what;s for dinner doug?

Pila Mulligan: hi Steve and Doug

doug Sosa: I wish i could invite you over. i like this little crowd that often gets together. Let's see.

Pila Mulligan: :) thanks

doug Sosa: Some stir fried vegs from the garden, a salad, some tofu. Chard, corn..

Pila Mulligan: yummy

doug Sosa: I had a lunch out at point reyenes, bolonese with lamb. terrific.

stevenaia Michinaga: nice, are you a vegetarian?

doug Sosa: no, but the tendency is there.

doug Sosa: hi arc

Pila Mulligan: ... and I could bring some of the watermelon that are just now ripening

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Archmage

Pila Mulligan: hi Arch

Archmage Atlantis: Hi Doug

Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Pila, Steve

Archmage Atlantis: No chard for me please

Archmage Atlantis: The rest sounds wonderful

doug Sosa: oh the way we do it, really good. no bitterness, right from the garden..

Pila Mulligan: does your garden have eggplant Doug?

Archmage Atlantis: Must be like seafood & fish, if i get to far inland, it's usually awful

Archmage Atlantis: Once on gets used to fresh, nothing else compares

Archmage Atlantis: *one

Pila Mulligan: eggplant and corn are both foods with flavors that seem to improve with a decrease in time from picking to the table

stevenaia Michinaga: eating near foods always seems to be better, lucky californians

doug Sosa: yes, and this year we have worked to get more from the garden.

stevenaia Michinaga: *near

doug Sosa: I love the time weeding. it is like 9 sec. drop concepts and go with experience. you lean to tell a weed just by the resistance of the roots..

Pila Mulligan: :)

doug Sosa: lear=learn

Archmage Atlantis: The black variety, or a white or purple eggplant.....I like them better usually less seedy and milder

Pila Mulligan: eggplant is a very substantial vegetable

Pila Mulligan: like breadfruit

Pila Mulligan: almost meaty

Archmage Atlantis: That was meant as a question for Doug

Pila Mulligan: ah, what type :)

doug Sosa: we have the dark, forgotten the variety.

doug Sosa: or maybe, dark purple?

Pila Mulligan: the thick one or Japanese thin is style?

Pila Mulligan: thin*

Archmage Atlantis: From a seed company, or a heritage variety

Archmage Atlantis: Ah, Japanese most likely

doug Sosa: i is ignorant

Pila Mulligan: my watermelon are a rare breed

Pila Mulligan: according to the seed package

doug Sosa: Pila are you near honolulu?

Pila Mulligan: nope

Pila Mulligan: Big Island

doug Sosa: I'll be there last week of oct.

doug Sosa: shucks.

Pila Mulligan: just a hop away

Pila Mulligan: like bus service

doug Sosa: I remember that now. Hope can make us forget.

doug Sosa: forget

Pila Mulligan: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: what;s a hop, 10 miles across water?

Pila Mulligan: 200

stevenaia Michinaga: oh

stevenaia Michinaga: more a leap

Pila Mulligan: but still like bus service

doug Sosa: rabbit hop.

Archmage Atlantis: Prop planes, yes?

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: jets

Archmage Atlantis: What seating capacity

Pila Mulligan: 737s mostly

Archmage Atlantis: Not bad

doug Sosa: ok, corn just got in the water (not my doing but ..) so bye for this evening.

stevenaia Michinaga: bye Doug

Pila Mulligan: have a nice meal Doug

Archmage Atlantis: I used to have to fly prop or small jets from Nashville to Charlotte, WV on business

Archmage Atlantis: I hated those

Archmage Atlantis: Plus the Charlotte airport was on the side of a mountain with short runways,......It was Eek!! every time we landed

Pila Mulligan: the De Havilland Dash is not so bad, but I agree generally, they are not comfortable

Archmage Atlantis: I always had to been over double to get in and down the aisle

Archmage Atlantis: Another meeting with no Guardian? - I hear they had to give up their plots on SL due to budget adjustments

stevenaia Michinaga: I am the guardian sunday nights

Archmage Atlantis: Ah, didn't see you claim the meeting

stevenaia Michinaga: before you arrived

Bellily Millar: greetings

Archmage Atlantis: Hello Belilly

Pila Mulligan: hi Belilly

stevenaia Michinaga: your parrot looks like it;s sleeping Bellily

Pila Mulligan: how are you?

Bellily Millar: lol steve

Bellily Millar: i don't know how to control the parrot, but have always wanted one

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Bellily Millar: fine pila, hope you are too

Archmage Atlantis: I don't think one controls any animal, usually they train us

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, my cat made me say that

Pila Mulligan: I'm fine too, thanks -- but the lag is fierce tonight for me

Archmage Atlantis: If my cat, fish and birds don't get what they want, it's heck till they do

Pila Mulligan: took two triee there :)

Pila Mulligan: tires*

Pila Mulligan: tries*

Archmage Atlantis: The koi are getting so big, I'm not sure I won't find one walking through the house one day

Bellily Millar: i hear ya pila. it's so frustrating when the lag is large

Bellily Millar: grin mage

Bellily Millar: i didn't mean "control" in any sense applying to real life animals.. just wonder if i can make this parrot sit upright in SL

Archmage Atlantis: I understand

Bellily Millar: i'm sorry i always come late when i come .. what is the topic?

stevenaia Michinaga: your parrot

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Bellily Millar: hehehe

Bellily Millar: ok.

Archmage Atlantis: Chard, eggplant, Hawaiian transport and now your parrot, actually

Bellily Millar: it doesn't have a name yet

stevenaia Michinaga: but if you have a topic, feel free

Pila Mulligan is going to slip away due to lag problems -- nice to visit with you all -- bye fr now

Bellily Millar: mmmmmm chard mmmmm my favorite green

Bellily Millar: take good care pila

Archmage Atlantis: TAke care Pila

stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pila

Bellily Millar: whoosh. pila is gone

stevenaia Michinaga: Sunday nights tend to be quiet sometimes

Bellily Millar: quiet is nice on a sunday evening

stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes it helps you focus

Archmage Atlantis: I like the walk to the center of the fountain, then ascend to the sky departure I have seen

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: Whoosh is all I can manage......

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise

Bellily Millar: aloha paradise

Bellily Millar: hope you are well

Archmage Atlantis: Hello Paradise

Paradise Tennant: hiya steve bellity .. arch :)

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Archmage Atlantis: I actually wrote down a topic earlier

stevenaia Michinaga: listens

Archmage Atlantis: Well, things being what they are, and a conversation about free items earlier

stevenaia Michinaga: hello bene

Paradise Tennant: hiya bene

Benedizione Vita: hello all

Archmage Atlantis: Led me to think that "what is the nature/essence" of a gift might be interesting

Bellily Millar: grins to you bene

Bellily Millar: i like your name

Archmage Atlantis: Hi bene

Benedizione Vita: thank you bellily

Benedizione Vita: hi AA

stevenaia Michinaga: a gift?

stevenaia Michinaga: a thing or blessing?

stevenaia Michinaga: or either

Archmage Atlantis: Could be, but more if I give you a gift of an item.....I have an example

Archmage Atlantis: A friend gave me a gift of a large cage for a cat

stevenaia Michinaga: usually non-material gifts have a greater impact

stevenaia Michinaga: like the gift of love

Archmage Atlantis: She said it was mine, but then added I had to return it to her if I decided I didn't need it

Paradise Tennant: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: love works the same why, so you are talking property issues or ethics?

Paradise Tennant: hmm gifting is a way of expressing generosity .. connection .. regard .. respect .. friendship it is almost a form of material communication

Archmage Atlantis: She and I got into this discussion, I said it was a gift of use, she insisted it was a gift of the cage, unless I didn't need it

stevenaia Michinaga: a gift of a loan?

Bellily Millar: doesn't matter if it was a gift or a loan. she wanted to impact your life in a practical way. blessing with the practical is also a form of love

Archmage Atlantis: Exactly

Archmage Atlantis: I would see it that way now, Belilly

Archmage Atlantis: Then I saw it differently

Bellily Millar: and the practical hates to be wasted, thus the "if you don't need" statement

Bellily Millar: how did you see it, arch?

Archmage Atlantis: That is was a loan with an obligation

Archmage Atlantis: A gift is free of obligation

stevenaia Michinaga: so even if you didn;t have a cat, you wouldn't think to return it if she asked?

Archmage Atlantis: If I still had it, and she asked, after the cat passed on, sure

Paradise Tennant: no strings .. but in this instance .. constraint was a practical one ....perhaps she knows someone else who also needs one :)

Bellily Millar: maybe there are different categories of gifts, different all based in love in various forms

stevenaia Michinaga: she just asked before instead of after

Archmage Atlantis: But now if I accepted, I had to keep up with it

Archmage Atlantis: To be to be a gift, it would be given without expectation or obligation

stevenaia Michinaga: that;s one type of gift

Bellily Millar: arch, what about the gift of "tough love?"

Paradise Tennant: some times the greatest gifts are ones that .. are the most difficult to give

Archmage Atlantis: Thank you Bellily, love was the next touchpoing

Archmage Atlantis: point

--BELL--

Bellily Millar: life's a mixed and confusing bag... and it's long, so the rules change a few times.. one definition is never enough

Archmage Atlantis: Although "tough love" is a conversation in it's own right

Paradise Tennant: lol well put

Benedizione Vita: has the relationship of gift with identification been discussed yet?

Paradise Tennant: there are always gray areas

Archmage Atlantis: No Bene

stevenaia Michinaga: please explain Bene

Benedizione Vita: may be interesting, given idea of dropping identification

Benedizione Vita: well, one (who?) can ask

Benedizione Vita: who is giving, and to whom?

Benedizione Vita: and what is it about the ting given that defines it as belonging to one person and then another?

Paradise Tennant: hmmmm mostly life's great gifts are the ones we are not really aware of . really the job is fully appreciate what we have

stevenaia Michinaga: aww, that identification

Bellily Millar: i don't understand how you mean "identification."

Bellily Millar: is that a standard PaB term?

stevenaia Michinaga: no

stevenaia Michinaga: I thought he was talking about the identification of the participants in the gift giving

stevenaia Michinaga: bene?

Benedizione Vita: close, steve

stevenaia Michinaga: what;s important is to try to be clear

Benedizione Vita: I think, in the idea of gift giving

Benedizione Vita: maybe there is some sense of "I am this person who is giving a gift, and this thing is mine, and I give it to that person and then it is theirs"

Bellily Millar: go on, bene

Benedizione Vita: so if we look here: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Information/Hints

Archmage Atlantis: I agree Bene

Paradise Tennant: hmm really think we are on a rental program ..and nothing is really ours or anyone else's for very long .. ownership is a myth

Benedizione Vita: we can think about what it might mean for gift giving to take place

Benedizione Vita: without this kind of "I am this separate thing giving this separate thing to another separate thing"

Benedizione Vita: and then the whole presentation is more relaxed

stevenaia Michinaga: nods

Benedizione Vita: what kind of apprecation/gratitude comes out of a presentation like that? maybe it is much more potent than an "I am a person and that person gave me something very nice"

Bellily Millar: interesting

Archmage Atlantis: I am Ozmandias, look upon my works........or something like that you mean Paradise

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

Archmage Atlantis: None of us are permanent

Benedizione Vita: how do you know that archmage? what if I am? ;^)

Paradise Tennant: ;) yes well on this ... plane no

Paradise Tennant: :))

Benedizione Vita: which plane?

Archmage Atlantis: the one from Honolulu to the Big Island

Benedizione Vita: hahaha

stevenaia Michinaga: smiles

Benedizione Vita: 2=x+y+z

Paradise Tennant: :))

Bellily Millar: what about the component of pride in gifting? some gifts are given in order to make the giver feel a certain way, some gifts are given even at the expense of hardship of the giver

stevenaia Michinaga: manipulative gifts?

Archmage Atlantis: To me, Bene, the first is not a gift

Bellily Millar: yeah

Bellily Millar: agree, arch

Bellily Millar: but we all do it sometimes...

Bellily Millar: it's hard to give a pure, pure, pure gift often

Paradise Tennant: well even our attention ..our respect .. human warmth is a gift ..

Benedizione Vita: I'm going to play HaSatan (or being) here a bit and say "I never give impure gifts"

Paradise Tennant: that is easy to do with practice :))

Bellily Millar: indeed, paradise

Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Bellily, that is why I think it is a word worthy of discussion

Paradise Tennant: :)) well I am going to excuse myself and give myself the gift of an early night .. thank you all .. big wave :))

Archmage Atlantis: If I give a pair of SL earrings to someone's avatar, is that a gift if I hope to create interest in me

Benedizione Vita: goodnight paradise :)

Bellily Millar: take good care, nite nite paradise

Archmage Atlantis: Nite Paradise

Paradise Tennant: goodnight bene ..arch bellity .. steve sleep well :))

stevenaia Michinaga: I must go too

Benedizione Vita: and I'm going to follow paradise and steve out the door :)

stevenaia Michinaga: thank you

Benedizione Vita: goodnight all :)

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: Nite to you both